Alabama's Immigration Law Passes (Or, Jim Crow for the Twenty First Century!)
198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mudbone;30506717]They have their own country, Its called Mexico. You stay there and I wont bother you.[/QUOTE]
Yeah just stay in your own country (that we ruined because of the war on drugs that we decided was a good idea)
You break it you buy it, classic free market you should like it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506761]Yeah just stay in your own country (that we ruined because of the war on drugs that we decided was a good idea)
You break it you buy it, classic free market you should like it.[/QUOTE]
The War on Drugs is stupid, but it does not force Mexico or any Mexican citizens, to deal in the drug trade.
You might not believe it, but Mexicans have free will.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506761]Yeah just stay in your own country (that we ruined because of the war on drugs that we decided was a good idea)
You break it you buy it, classic free market you should like it.[/QUOTE]
You... think that America ruined Mexico because of the war on drugs? :crossarms:
[QUOTE='[sluggo];30505925']Yes it does: They take American jobs, American money (through welfare), and break American laws.[/QUOTE]
No, No and Yes I suppose but so does everyone else.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30506806]You... think that America ruined Mexico because of the war on drugs?[/QUOTE]
The America made a war on the drugs, so now that it is against the laws to smoke the drugs, now Mexicans are forced to make drugs to sell in the America because they have guns.
Simple really! :psypop:
[QUOTE=Atlascore;30506209]Too bad literally no one listens to the UN, it's a joke organization just like the League of Nations.[/QUOTE]
Well with attitudes like that I'm not surprised. You're part of the problem.
[editline]16th June 2011[/editline]
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[QUOTE=Ardosos;30506806]You... think that America ruined Mexico because of the war on drugs? :crossarms:[/QUOTE]
You really think the massive amount of gang violence and corruption would still exist without the drug war?
The US is practically indirectly supporting the cartels that are running Mexico into the ground.
this thread still proves if idealistic facepunchers were in charge of a country, it'd fall flat on it's face and die off because people don't understand the most idealistic or most moral policy is the most practical one.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506881]You really think the massive amount of gang violence and corruption would still exist without the drug war?
The US is practically indirectly supporting the cartels that are running Mexico into the ground.[/QUOTE]
So, you're saying that by declaring an anti-drug policy, America is promoting those who sell drugs?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506679]Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of [b]universal [i]respect[/i] for and [i]observance[/i] of human rights and fundamental freedoms[/b],[/quote]
Important section highlighted; keywords italicized.
[quote=Zeke129]Sounds to me like they intend all participating nations to work together.[/quote]
To "[b]promote[/b] universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms", yes. That's all they require them to work together on.
[quote=Zeke129]Denying education to illegal immigrants (I know that's not as far as this bill is going fyi)[/quote]
Thank god.
[quote=Zeke129]is just going to result in a bunch of uneducated illegal immigrants, it's counterproductive and even you can see that I'm sure.[/QUOTE]
Whereas granting them education beyond the elementary level (as well as welfare) as far up as college results in tremendous expenses that reflects in the budgets of local and state governments, and ultimately the federal government. Consequently, they have to try and dance around with what finances they've got allocated and amend them to try and keep the books balanced. At the end of the day, it comes back to haunt us, the citizens, in the taxes we have to pay. And, as well, it makes it more difficult for us to find jobs.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30506926]So, you're saying that by declaring an anti-drug policy, America is promoting those who sell drugs?[/QUOTE]
yes, because "the war on drugs" is merely just declaring drugs illegal and nothing more
how do you live?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30506926]So, you're saying that by declaring an anti-drug policy, America is promoting those who sell drugs?[/QUOTE]
Yes, absolutely. By keeping drugs illegal you're funnelling all business to the cartels which resort to violence and bribery to keep afloat. They're destroying Mexico, and America continues to enact policies that actually help them.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30506965]
Consequently, they have to try and dance around with what finances they've got allocated and amend them to try and keep the books balanced. At the end of the day, it comes back to haunt us, the citizens, in the taxes we have to pay. And, as well, it makes it more difficult for us to find jobs.[/QUOTE]
lol, do you really think the farmers or workers in agriculture that supplies us with food is actually getting paid the minimum wage or is actually legal?
[QUOTE=Lazor;30506966]yes, because "the war on drugs" is merely just declaring drugs illegal and nothing more
how do you live?[/QUOTE]
So, let me get this straight. According to you, because America declares a war on drugs, thus resulting in drugs being made illegal (among other things), this somehow creates drug cartels?
Or, a better question, you believe that drug cartels wouldn't exist without the war on drugs?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30507030]So, let me get this straight. According to you, because America declares a war on drugs, thus resulting in drugs being made illegal (among other things), this somehow creates drug cartels?
Or, a better question, you believe that drug cartels wouldn't exist without the war on drugs?[/QUOTE]
You have it 100% correct. Want to know why there aren't alcohol bootleggers anymore? Because alcohol is legal. Same would apply to drugs.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506990]Yes, absolutely. By keeping drugs illegal you're funnelling all business to the cartels which resort to violence and bribery to keep afloat. They're destroying Mexico, and America continues to enact policies that actually help them.[/QUOTE]
And why should the cartels be "kept afloat"? Why shouldn't we break them up, rather than make their practices legal?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30507030]So, let me get this straight. According to you, because America declares a war on drugs, thus resulting in drugs being made illegal (among other things), this somehow creates drug cartels?
Or, a better question, you believe that drug cartels wouldn't exist without the war on drugs?[/QUOTE]
what fucking reason would cartels have to exist if drugs weren't illegal?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30507051]And why should the cartels be "kept afloat"? Why shouldn't we break them up?[/QUOTE]
Can't get rid of organized crime. You can break up groups of it but the actual organization will always exist unless you sever its profits. Legalizing the stuff they sell and ending this foolish war would do just that.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30507030]So, let me get this straight. According to you, because America declares a war on drugs, thus resulting in drugs being made illegal (among other things), this somehow creates drug cartels?
Or, a better question, you believe that drug cartels wouldn't exist without the war on drugs?[/QUOTE]
a lot of mafia prospered and died when prohibition started and ended.
tell me how drug cartels will succeed when drugs are legal and regulated by the government so the people won't have to bother buying from them?
its precisely the ban that allows them to have a monopoly and sell them at much higher price
if drugs were
a) cheaper
b) safer
c) regulated
the cartels has absolutely noting to compete the government with lol
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;30507010]lol, do you really think the farmers or workers in agriculture that supplies us with food is actually getting paid the minimum wage or is actually legal?[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you smoking? "is actually getting paid the minimum wage or is actually legal"? What are you talking about? Write more clearly.
[editline]17th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;30506888]this thread still proves if idealistic facepunchers were in charge of a country, it'd fall flat on it's face and die off because people don't understand the most idealistic or most moral policy is the most practical one.[/QUOTE]
The irony, of course, is that you idealistically believe that "the most idealistic or most moral policy is the most practical one."
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30507114]What the hell are you smoking? "is actually getting paid the minimum wage or is actually legal"? What are you talking about? Write more clearly.[/QUOTE]
I think he's saying that the jobs illegals are doing are jobs that wouldn't exist if there weren't any illegals (ie, if an employer suddenly can't pay people half of minimum wage they're just going to hire half as many people) so it's kind of hard to say they're taking jobs.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506990]Yes, absolutely. By keeping drugs illegal you're funnelling all business to the cartels which resort to violence and bribery to keep afloat. They're destroying Mexico, and America continues to enact policies that actually help them.[/QUOTE]
And it's not like Mexico has a government or anything, whose responsibility it is to police their own Nation.
America should just take over Mexico so we can shut down those drug cartels, right?
[/sarcasm]
You know drugs are illegal in Mexico too, right?
The real reason there are drug cartels because their government is just a corrupt piece of shit.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30507145]And it's not like Mexico has a government or anything, whose responsibility it is to police their own Nation.
America should just take over Mexico so we can shut down those drug cartels, right?[/QUOTE]
The cartels practically own the Mexican government.
America should stop the war on drugs so the cartels die, the violence stops, the government recovers, and Mexico has a chance at prospering resulting in less people having to flee to America.
Hey look I just created an immigration policy that actually saves money
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30507114]
The irony, of course, is that you idealistically believe that "the most idealistic or most moral policy is the most practical one."[/QUOTE]
cept this war on drugs started for an idealistic or moral idea on the basis that it's bad!!!
portugal's policy shows it's practical, and seeing what's going on at the moment with studies and reports that the war on drugs has failed, i think this policy is opposite of practical.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30505432]It's fucking HARD to get citizenship in MOST countries, and it damn well should be.
We have 11%-16% unemployment in most states in the USA right now, and we don't need more fucking unskilled workers flooding the low end of the job pool and making things worse.[/QUOTE]
According to [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005[/url] , roughly 13% of the population is immigrants. Even assuming they are all illegal, and every job they can't work is a job a citizen can work, you would only reduce the total unemployment by about 2% (note: immigrants have similar rates of employment as citizens, but I can't be arsed to cite my source - I've done this too many times).
More realistically, only some of that population is illegal immigrants - let's guesstimate 50% for fun. Assuming that, you'll actually only reduce unemployment by 1% - about as much as the yearly variation in unemployment we've been seeing.
Then, according to [url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/poverty.html[/url] , illegal immigrants make half as much as a typical citizen, so the citizens that take these jobs will largely be living in poverty, or will have to be paid more - meaning fewer jobs for citizens, and generally higher costs and less production.
Now, assuming you do manage to somehow remove every illegal immigrant, they'll end up back in Mexico (and various other countries, but mostly Mexico). That will raise Mexico's unemployment rate and overall costs, which will increase the demand for emigration. Which will increase the number of illegal immigrants we have to remove each year, increasing our total costs as well. Mind you, Mexico's economy is already among the fastest dropping economies in the world, so this will just doom them even faster.
I suspect that successfully removing all illegal immigrants won't be nearly as beneficial as you think it would be.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30507144]I think he's saying that the jobs illegals are doing are jobs that wouldn't exist if there weren't any illegals (ie, if an employer suddenly can't pay people half of minimum wage they're just going to hire half as many people) so it's kind of hard to say they're taking jobs.[/QUOTE]
Well that's a dumb argument, especially in the case of picking food.
You have to have a certain number of people to pick, period. If you hire less, they can't pick faster so the food just rots.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;30507093]
its precisely the ban that allows them to have a monopoly and sell them at much higher price
if drugs were
a) cheaper
b) safer
c) regulated
the cartels has absolutely noting to compete the government with lol[/QUOTE]
How would we make drugs safer? How would we regulate them?
Already we can't stop people from abusing alcohol by, for example, drunk driving. If drugs were more common or easier to get, how would we stop people from abusing them?
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;30507219]According to [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005[/url] , roughly 13% of the population is immigrants. Even assuming they are all illegal, and every job they can't work is a job a citizen can work, you would only reduce the total unemployment by about 2% (note: immigrants have similar rates of employment as citizens, but I can't be arsed to cite my source - I've done this too many times).
More realistically, only some of that population is illegal immigrants - let's guesstimate 50% for fun. Assuming that, you'll actually only reduce unemployment by 1% - about as much as the yearly variation in unemployment we've been seeing.
Then, according to [url]http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/poverty.html[/url] , illegal immigrants make half as much as a typical citizen, so the citizens that take these jobs will largely be living in poverty, or will have to be paid more - meaning fewer jobs for citizens, and generally higher costs and less production.
Now, assuming you do manage to somehow remove every illegal immigrant, they'll end up back in Mexico (and various other countries, but mostly Mexico). That will raise Mexico's unemployment rate and overall costs, which will increase the demand for emigration. Which will increase the number of illegal immigrants we have to remove each year, increasing our total costs as well. Mind you, Mexico's economy is already among the fastest dropping economies in the world, so this will just doom them even faster.
I suspect that successfully removing all illegal immigrants won't be nearly as beneficial as you think it would be.[/QUOTE]
We can't catch all murderers, and even if we could then people would still commit murder anyway, so we shouldn't bother trying to stop people from murdering anyway.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30507230]Well that's a dumb argument, especially in the case of picking food.
You have to have a certain number of people to pick, period. If you hire less, they can't pick faster so the food just rots.[/QUOTE]
do you really believe all the farmers or workers in agriculture are actually paid minimum wage?
it's precisely cause we pay them the illegals so low, our food prices are lower than they should be, force agriculture companies to be monitored and force them to all pay their workers minimum wage, prepare for a price skyrocket
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30507239]How would we make drugs safer? How would we regulate them?
Already we can't stop people from abusing alcohol by, for example, drunk driving. If drugs were more common or easier to get, how would we stop people from abusing them?[/QUOTE]
uh, it's not fucking rocket science, we already use the 'horrendous' drugs if you haven't noticed, we just brand it, make it safer, and call it a different name for a variety of problems...
hell, portugal does it, look up their statistics and compare it to ours, voila.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30507239]How would we make drugs safer? How would we regulate them?
Already we can't stop people from abusing alcohol by, for example, drunk driving. If drugs were more common or easier to get, how would we stop people from abusing them?[/QUOTE]
Marijuana should be legal. No question.
It's less addictive and less harmful than alcohol or tobacco, so there is no rational reason for it to be illegal.
The bulk of the illegal drug trade is marijuana, so once that was legalized it would drop dramatically in price and most of the money going into Mexican drug cartels would dry up.
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