Alabama's Immigration Law Passes (Or, Jim Crow for the Twenty First Century!)
198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=cccritical;30510882]:irony:[/QUOTE]
Fine then, I'll bother:
According to [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Current_crime_rate_statistics]wikipedia[/url] (information sources available, cited largely from US Gov't), hispanics are slightly underrepresented in prisons, despite [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Characteristics_of_offenders]Hispanics being more likely to go to jail if arrested[/url] (which should skew their numbers up). Further, if illegal immigrants (whom are commonly Hispanic) were a significant factor, you'd also expect Hispanic figures for prison population to be skewed high.
[QUOTE=Gabe Newell;30510261][b]HOOOOLY SHIT[/b] you're so wrong. I live in Alabama and we have TONS of hispanics, and I wouldn't doubt some of them are illegal[/QUOTE]
3.9% isn't exactly tons.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;30511100]Fine then, I'll bother:
According to [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Current_crime_rate_statistics]wikipedia[/url] (information sources available, cited largely from US Gov't), hispanics are slightly underrepresented in prisons, despite [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Characteristics_of_offenders]Hispanics being more likely to go to jail if arrested[/url] (which should skew their numbers up). Further, if illegal immigrants (whom are commonly Hispanic) were a significant factor, you'd also expect Hispanic figures for prison population to be skewed high.[/QUOTE]
Can an illegal go to a prison without being a citizen? I thought it was a legal gray area.
[editline]16th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=jeimizu;30511122]3.9% isn't exactly tons.[/QUOTE]
Technically, they couldn't reliably count the illegals because they wouldn't be registered anywhere.
[QUOTE=cccritical;30510556]holy shit wow
I'm not implying murder is as severe as illegal immigration
you're dumb for saying the law is pointless just because it isn't broken very often[/QUOTE]
how can you call people dumb when you hardly even understand other people's posts
he was talking about how he thinks the law is an ideological law made to advance an agenda rather than fix some kind of issue or concern that's causing a problem
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30511142]Can an illegal go to a prison without being a citizen? I thought it was a legal gray area.
Technically, they couldn't reliably count the illegals because they wouldn't be registered anywhere.[/QUOTE]
They'll be held in prison or deported if their crime is severe enough - felonies in most places. However, the immigration laws are pretty weak, so actually deporting people is a pretty slow process. You also have to prove where they came from, as you can't just deport people to a random country.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;30511188]They'll be held in prison or deported if their crime is severe enough - felonies in most places. However, the immigration laws are pretty weak, so actually deporting people is a pretty slow process. You also have to prove where they came from, as you can't just deport people to a random country.[/QUOTE]
"goddamnit i don't care about no hispanics they all came from the same country anyway"
or something like that
for some reason i just have such heavy contempt for people who think that way
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30507372]Perhaps. He's yet to respond to me on that. Though, assuming an employer can't even afford minimum wage for his workers and has to resort to hiring nothing but illegals instead, or is doing so just because of cheapness, it's fairly obvious that they shouldn't even be owning and maintaining an agricultural business in the first place, be it a farm, a processing center, etc. The jobs they create and hire the illegals for do nothing, of course, for the rest of us who are actual citizens, however. There again, that causes budget problems and tax increases in the long run, a good portion of which is to blame because of unemployment.[/QUOTE]
What would Americans prefer? Unemployment decreases, or food prices don't go up?
I'll bet they'll pick the latter.
If you guys managed to find a miracle fix for illegal immigration within a decade there'd be people rioting over how much oranges cost.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30511519]What would Americans prefer? Unemployment decreases, or food prices don't go up?
I'll bet they'll pick the latter.
If you guys managed to find a miracle fix for illegal immigration within a decade there'd be people rioting over how much oranges cost.[/QUOTE]
the jobs that illegal immigrants do are a dime per dozen. the unemployment comes from a lack of demand and low income mobility creates a situation where people won't buy as much so it's a clusterfuck of cause and effect.
the problem is once you force illegal immigrants out of legal jobs, they'll be forced to go into illegal jobs and that also causes a huge mess.
Good lord, why are my state politicians such humungous morons? Whats amazing is that the people that wanted this legalized were trying to play it off as not racist, when anyone with a pair of eyes could see that it is. stay fucking classy Alabama.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30507372]Perhaps. He's yet to respond to me on that. Though, assuming an employer can't even afford minimum wage for his workers and has to resort to hiring nothing but illegals instead, or is doing so just because of cheapness, [b]it's fairly obvious that they shouldn't even be owning and maintaining an agricultural business in the first place[/b], be it a farm, a processing center, etc. The jobs they create and hire the illegals for do nothing, of course, for the rest of us who are actual citizens, however. There again, that causes budget problems and tax increases in the long run, a good portion of which is to blame because of unemployment.[/QUOTE]
No, the only thing that seems fairly obvious is that the minimum wage has destroyed jobs for Americans, provided they even wanted them (Mexican migrants would be included if we had a free immigration situation)
Illegal immigration is good, precisely because workers working for a fraction of the cost of other workers brings down the cost of the things they produce, but, because of worker's entitlements and general entitlement programs, free immigration like we had prior to the early 1900s is impossible.
That doesn't mean undocumented people don't help the economy, though, employment isn't killed by those people provided they don't actually obtain benefits from the government and lead to the tax increases you mentioned.
[editline]17th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506116]They.
Do.
Not.
Take.
Jobs.[/QUOTE]
Hrm, really? Ok. You said in one of your previous quotes that a man working for minimum wage "takes" a job from a man who isn't willing to be paid so little. Illegal immigrants often work for BELOW minimum wage.
Therefore, in your logic, they take jobs from both of those people.
For reference:
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506116]People who are willing to work for less than others. You could say that I, who was willing to start out at minimum wage, took the job of someone who would work for $8 an hour.[/QUOTE]
Im glad that im in Alabama :dance:
[QUOTE=dialogical;30518302][editline]17th June 2011[/editline]Hrm, really? Ok. You said in one of your previous quotes that a man working for minimum wage "takes" a job from a man who isn't willing to be paid so little. Illegal immigrants often work for BELOW minimum wage.
Therefore, in your logic, they take jobs from both of those people.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not he actually meant that as you interpret it, both assertions are wrong.
They don't take jobs from anyone, there's a reason they hire those people and yes, it's to save money and yes, that's a good thing.
Know who works for less than minimum wage? Long hours? Pays no taxes? Machinery. The argument is just as weak as saying the damn robots at the car assembly plant stole my job.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;30507917]Corn is one of the most common crops, why not cite that?
That's harvest costs - what about maintenance and planting costs (labor only)?[/quote]
Maintenance and planting is done by machine, not by hand.
The most labor that goes into producing crops is in harvesting.
Corn is harvested by machine, not by hand. Lettuce must be harvested by hand and has one of the highest harvesting costs of any mass produced food.
Some berries have higher labor costs for harvesting, but they cost a ton and aren't produced in the same quantities or used as commonly as lettuce.
[img]http://haysvillelibrary.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/harvesting-corn-iowa-state-university1.jpg[/img]
VERSUS
[img]http://www.foodprocessing-technology.com/projects/bud-antle/images/4-lettuce-harvesting.jpg[/img]
Hamburger shit accidentally got left in when I copy/pasted info from another site.
[editline]17th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;30511616]the problem is once you force illegal immigrants out of legal jobs, they'll be forced to go into illegal jobs and that also causes a huge mess.[/QUOTE]
Actually, they usually just go home.
Arizona has seen a massive decrease in illegal immigrants in their state because of their new, harsher immigration laws.
[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/29/national/main6442729.shtml[/url]
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-06-08-immigration_N.htm[/url]
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