Carmack takes aim at "snooty" indies, Condemns Call of Duty bashing - Polidicks

what's the deal with call of duty hating on this forum? its a just a game sort your life out

[QUOTE=Reimu;31246736] Also, if I support a franchise, I'm not just gonna blindly buy games from the series. I certainly didn't preorder Fallout: New Vegas until I felt for sure it would be worth my money.[/QUOTE] I said BUY not PRE-ORDER

[QUOTE=RichyZ;31246833]entitlement complex[/QUOTE] call of duty is like darts if you change darts game mechanics then it just isnt darts anymore

[QUOTE=Matrix374;31246872]I said BUY not PRE-ORDER[/QUOTE] Doesn't matter, never pre-ordered a game I wasn't satisfied with. Except for that one Nights game, but that's a different story for another time!

[QUOTE]As long as people are buying it, it means they're enjoying it.[/QUOTE] No it's just people only know what they're exposed to, which is a bunch of CoD clones.

[QUOTE=aydin690;31245495]When was the last time id made a good game?[/QUOTE] The last time Id made a game at all (aside from mobile games, Quake Live, etc) was 2004. I thought Doom 3 was a pretty good game, flashlight aside.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;31255053]you're right, when they walk into the store, they only see cod they don't enjoy the game at all, they just buy it and play 100+ hours out of pity[/QUOTE] Most of them have never even played a Valve game, or ANY fps that isn't a CoD clone. I used to like CoD4 until I discovered TF2.

I'm looking forward to Men of War: Vietnam more than any other game sequel that's coming out in the recent future Why? 1. Moddability 2. Innovation from past titles (helicopters and better stealth mechanics? tyvm) 3. Better Graphics I want more of the same sort of gameplay that was in MoW, MoW:RT. Similar to how cod players want more of cod gameplay. (yeah, arguably MoW gameplay is much deeper, blah blah blah). CoD fails because it lacks aspects 1 and 2 they're barely innovating (OHEY YOU CAN PICK UP CLAYMORES AND MOVE THEM... SENTRY GUNS OMFG) while Men of War introduces air vehicles that are persistent on the battlefield and usable. that's like turning a killstreak into a vehicle that you can fly in CoD and there's no mods... MoW:V will enable modern combat mods for MoW that actually have working helis.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;31255280][url]http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/fps-first-person-shooter/47551-black-ops-mod-tools.html[/url] even though mow vietnam looks great, there isn't much innovation at all, or is equal to mw3, hell, blackops made a drivable killstreak, that's about the equivalent of a helicopter that doesn't just do a strafing run[/QUOTE] IW's releases are the main thing defined as "CoD", and they never release any mod tools. MW2 is the largest seller in the franchise iirc. plus I've heard the AI is slightly better, >.<

[QUOTE=RichyZ;31255175][citation needed] also, almost everyone i know has played left4dead or it's sequel[/QUOTE] Well duh everyone's played l4d (and maybe now, Portal 2) it was on xbox and 'mainstream'. But TF2 or HL2? No way.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;31255717]Well duh everyone's played l4d (and maybe now, Portal 2) it was on xbox and 'mainstream'. But TF2 or HL2? No way.[/QUOTE] I have several friends who once they tried vanilla TF2 on their Xbox360s said they had the most fun they've ever had. When I showed them the PC version they wished they had PC gaming rigs :v: Our lan party does play the orignal Modern Warfare though because its fun to rage jokingly at getting quick scoped. [editline]21st July 2011[/editline] But it is anecdotal. From personal experience a lot of CoD players don't know about games like HL2 and TF2 or even Bioshock.

[QUOTE=bobsynergy;31208161]This is really stupid coming from Carmack, he is credited for doing the completely damn opposite, he revolutionized games and first person shooters as we know them today. Why? because he did something different and not what everyone else was doing. Every new game he released had something drastically different, if it was technology, new effects, gameplay, multiplayer, he made peoples jaw drop from every game ID has made with what he put in there. Hell he has even taken forever to release games because of whatever new thing or new engine or new upgrade to an engine he wanted to make. Saying CoD is fine makes no sense considering what he has done and how he always wants/does push the industry forward with something he makes. About the snooty indie companies, atleast they have balls to try something new and innovative like you have done all those years ago instead of trying to make as much money as possible copying others. And didn't he do that like a month ago, calling Rage a fine steak while all other games were crap? Now I'm worried about buying Rage if he has taken this complete opposite stance which is what made ID in the first place, so whats going to happen now? is he going to take the CoD route and just make every new game based on ID Tech 5 and never make a new one or change like CoD has stuck with a modified Quake engine?[/QUOTE] Willits said steak, not carmack. Secondly, Carmack is old. He cares a shitload more about his family and keeping his employees happy than he does about "pushing the envelope". The Carmack you're alluding to talk about hasn't existed for years.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;31255175][citation needed] also, almost everyone i know has played left4dead or it's sequel[/QUOTE] Probably, because Valve is to Left4Dead as Pixar is to Cars.

[QUOTE=Sweet_Water;31258711]Probably, because Valve is to Left4Dead as Pixar is to Cars.[/QUOTE] No, That would be Ricochet.

[QUOTE=thisispain;31243447]if i wanted a good story i wouldn't play videogames, i'd read a book games are centuries away from having anything close to a good story[/QUOTE]Cinema has only been around a century and it's come a long way. I'm confident that games can get there in half the time.

[QUOTE=staticman;31207518]Carmack argued that a developer's job is to make games that people love and are willing to open their wallets for, not games that push boundaries.[/QUOTE] What? That's like the dumbest thing I've heard all week.

I don't like Notch. From my perspective, he's very greedy.

[QUOTE=shadow_of_intent;31243619]Killing Floor's story is pretty much scientist made creatures, the creatures escaped, please kill them. I didn't even know it had a backstory for a while, but its still definitely one of my favorite games.[/QUOTE] online game great example

A Third person shooter only its Chefs using their kitchen related weapons to take down the other teams ginger bread castles. A FPS/RTS where farmers are stealing pigs, cows and hay from each other. Pigs are 3 points, hay is 1 point, cows are 5. There is a mechanical bull that you can kill for 10 points. If you steal back something while the opponent is carrying it you get points. hows that creativity for ya PUNK

If they make a bad game,then Cave Jhonson is going to pop out of my computer and FIRE that ass at Activision that isn't inovative.

what about psychonauts, wonky platformer that was average at best but it's beloved for its story I mean, by this standard, movies should be as visually stimulating as possible and therefore Michael Bay is the best moviemaker, and if you want a story go read a book. It's not like that. If a video game has a REALLY good story but not so good gameplay, it's still good.

[QUOTE=Chilean;31294158]what about psychonauts, wonky platformer that was average at best but it's beloved for its story I mean, by this standard, movies should be as visually stimulating as possible and therefore Michael Bay is the best moviemaker, and if you want a story go read a book. It's not like that. If a video game has a REALLY good story but not so good gameplay, it's still good.[/QUOTE] What they don't really understand that writing stories for games is extremely difficult. Even for Linear games you cannot guess what the player will do hence why a lot of scenes are scripted and such like in CoD and Half Life 2. But once you get into an open world the original unknowing of what the player will do multiplies but a thousand. So its either you make it very linear and have a better chance of eliminating plot holes or go with a wide open world and leave it to the player to accept the plot holes. What also isn't conveyed in voice and script work is conveyed on with visual clues. Videogames at its best are a mixture of books and movies. With a lot of the backstory being hidden behind the scenes in the form of textures and decals or with people literally telling you. Half Life does have a story that evolves, but instead of just focusing on killing and actually exploring like in Dues Ex, you'll quickly find it. A good game with a good story mixes the two together in such a way that a player can, with their own initiative piece it together. But as you can see from some of the posters here, they don't want to do that with a game which is perfectly fine. They don't want to be spoon fed but they also don't want too look. They just want pretty pictures.

call of duty isn't going anywhere, and neither are the half-wits that play it you can whine and complain and speculate about successor series all you want, but call of duty is going to be a huge factor in the shape for holiday video game line ups for at least the next 4 years. of course, by that point, its primary user base will have likely grown the fuck up, so they'll have to toss in some new feature (or activision will have to cod-ify a new IP) to rake in the new 12 year olds. for the record i play and enjoy modern warfare 2 and black ops

I highly doubt it will last 4 more years. It's time is ending pretty soon here.

[QUOTE=Chilean;31294158]what about psychonauts, wonky platformer that was average at best but it's beloved for its story[/QUOTE]Wtf are you talking about it had things you could do in it and worlds that were so much more enjoyable than just about anything, including Mario 64. [editline]24th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=GoldenGnome;31296559]call of duty isn't going anywhere, and neither are the half-wits that play it[/QUOTE]Tony Hawks was an awesome series, so was Guitar Hero, they both turned into complete shit and died. CoD can do just the same.

I''ll still use reality TV as an example. Most people in the world are idiots, and therefore lap up most rubbish that is pumped into their brains. In order to see actual content and imagination, you have to be a bit snobby about what you see as good entertainment. If you genuinely find something fun, so be it. I like games that push the boundaries and seem to have a lot more thought in their conception and development. I can't hate CoD, because it's a success is based on clever marketing. I'm just not interested in it, or paying several times over the base game price for DLC. If you like it, good for you. Speaking of DLC, how did we let is spread so rapidly? It just gets a full product and slices it up, gets released in interval and ends up costing you more. It's like buying an sandwich and not being allowed the filling for 6 weeks.