• Dutch MPs Vote to Ban Religious Slaughter
    304 replies, posted
This thread is just so hilariously full of stupid and bad arguments that I'm having a hard time not breaking out in laughter. I mean really.
[QUOTE=RBM11;30782170]What the fuck is wrong with the Dutch people in this thread? Like 90% of you with the Dutch flag have been xenophobic/racist. :colbert: I live in a small town in the fucking South and we get tons of Burmese refugees. A lot of them went to my school and maybe 10% of them spoke any sort of understandable English and no one here gives a fuck. After going through my yearbook the number is about 11%, more than the Muslims in the Netherlands. The most that happens is that someone will make a comment about some of their names which do look strange when converted into the Latin alphabet (like a bunch have one letter names, etc.) but that's it. Not once have I heard anyone say they should learn English or get the fuck out because they know it's difficult to and pretty much impossible to do in a short period of time. They are attempting to learn it as well. No one ever says they should get the fuck out of the country because they'll get called racist. No local politician is campaigning on the promise to kick out the Burmese or that they should be forced to learn English. Like I said before this is the fucking South we're talking about here, historically a very tolerant region. Assimilation takes time. Xenophobes make the same old tired arguments about how they refuse to learn the language of the new country blah blah blah. It takes generations for that to happen, always has. First generation will never be fully but as their children's children grow up they will be. Let's take the U.S. as an example. First it was the Germans. People said that the U.S. would be speaking German due to large numbers of immigrants. Didn't fucking happen. It was the same fucking way with Italians, Greeks, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Russians, etc. ad infinitum. Now it's the Mexicans who won't assimilate. Same old shit. Now that the pure white Netherlands get a whopping 5% Muslim population, they go batshit crazy racist saying all the brown people are going to drown out their master race and language (which is just a bastardized form of German anyway). Why the fuck do you care so damn much? It's only 5% anyway you pussies, get the fuck over it. But kosher/halal are fucking barbaric ancient customs just like circumcision, but I'm not sure a ban was necessary.[/QUOTE] I have no idea what's wrong. Maybe just plain discrimination. I live in a small town in Friesland (In the North of Holland) and there are quite some Turkish and Maroccan people here. A few of the older people don't speak our language that good but it doesn't matter because they get the message across. They're not forcing their religion, practices or language on us. They don't form a problem for society and they do normal work and try their best at higher education. I have no idea why our fellow dutchmen be hatin'
I just think it's cruel to slit an animal's throat while it's still alive. I'm a bit of a hypocrite though. I sort of like like foie gras (with spiced pears or jam. Boring on it's own, but that's another point).
This is asinine, animals don't have rights, at all (animals get rights the day they can communicate the reasons why they should have them, as it is ones mind which bestows rights upon them) Unless it has an effect on the taste or quality of the meat, the method of slaughter is pretty much irrelevant, because in the end it is a method of SLAUGHTER. Personally I would prefer to eat meat which came from animals which were not tortured unnecessarily before they were killed, just because I feel as if you enjoy torturing the animals you eat it reveals some kind of weird sadistic aspect of your personality. That said if the "torture" made the meat much quicker, and cheaper to produce while maintaining high quality, I would not oppose it. Also for all the bitching I hear about northern Europe being some sort of liberal paradise, a lot of those countries seem to be pretty racist, what with the minaret ban and now this. The liberal hippies here complain about a lack of halal and kosher food. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] This reminds me of Frances ban on Islamic head coverings At first I supported it because I thought it only applied to government owned facilities, and it was in place so that you could not try and avoid a security requirement by claiming religious exemption. I later discovered that the ban not only applied to Islamic masks, but the wearing of large crosses, or other outward signs of religious ideology. Revealing that their true motivation was not preventing people from using religion as an excuse to break rules, but rather a broader attitude that is hostile to religion in general. This bothers me immensely, despite the fact that I'm an atheist (not agnostic), as freedom of speech and belief are very important to me.
Dutch people in this thread on the whole not doing much for their country's liberal image
[QUOTE=BCell;30782527]PETA might support this however. Anything PETA supports, we should go against[/QUOTE] peta probably doens't support skinning a live animal and raping it we better skin live animals and rape them, that'll show peta! [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Novistador;30783583]This is asinine, animals don't have rights, at all (animals get rights the day they can communicate the reasons why they should have them, as it is ones mind which bestows rights upon them) Unless it has an effect on the taste or quality of the meat, the method of slaughter is pretty much irrelevant, because in the end it is a method of SLAUGHTER. Personally I would prefer to eat meat which came from animals which were not tortured unnecessarily before they were killed, just because I feel as if you enjoy torturing the animals you eat it reveals some kind of weird sadistic aspect of your personality. [b]That said if the "torture" made the meat much quicker, and cheaper to produce while maintaining high quality, I would not oppose it.[/b] Also for all the bitching I hear about northern Europe being some sort of liberal paradise, a lot of those countries seem to be pretty racist, what with the minaret ban and now this. The liberal hippies here complain about a lack of halal and kosher food. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] This reminds me of Frances ban on Islamic head coverings At first I supported it because I thought it only applied to government owned facilities, and it was in place so that you could not try and avoid a security requirement by claiming religious exemption. I later discovered that the ban not only applied to Islamic masks, but the wearing of large crosses, or other outward signs of religious ideology. Revealing that their true motivation was not preventing people from using religion as an excuse to break rules, but rather a broader attitude that is hostile to religion in general. This bothers me immensely, despite the fact that I'm an atheist (not agnostic), as freedom of speech and belief are very important to me.[/QUOTE] you my as well have just posted this, considering it's the only part of your post that matters that being said, that's pretty despicable
[QUOTE=Novistador;30783583]This is asinine, animals don't have rights, at all (animals get rights the day they can communicate the reasons why they should have them, as it is ones mind which bestows rights upon them) Unless it has an effect on the taste or quality of the meat, the method of slaughter is pretty much irrelevant, because in the end it is a method of SLAUGHTER. Personally I would prefer to eat meat which came from animals which were not tortured unnecessarily before they were killed, just because I feel as if you enjoy torturing the animals you eat it reveals some kind of weird sadistic aspect of your personality. That said if the "torture" made the meat much quicker, and cheaper to produce while maintaining high quality, I would not oppose it. Also for all the bitching I hear about northern Europe being some sort of liberal paradise, a lot of those countries seem to be pretty racist, what with the minaret ban and now this. The liberal hippies here complain about a lack of halal and kosher food. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] This reminds me of Frances ban on Islamic head coverings At first I supported it because I thought it only applied to government owned facilities, and it was in place so that you could not try and avoid a security requirement by claiming religious exemption. I later discovered that the ban not only applied to Islamic masks, but the wearing of large crosses, or other outward signs of religious ideology. Revealing that their true motivation was not preventing people from using religion as an excuse to break rules, but rather a broader attitude that is hostile to religion in general. This bothers me immensely, despite the fact that I'm an atheist (not agnostic), as freedom of speech and belief are very important to me.[/QUOTE] You might have a point if it wasn't for the fact that animals do have rights.
[QUOTE=Stopper;30780821]I just had to google that. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_fetishism[/url] :geno:[/QUOTE] Does it make any less sense than liking breasts? Imagine an alternate world where nosefucking is a normal, accepted part of sex, and a guy asks his wife for the favor of letting him kiss her breasts and she's like "EWW NO pervert! MILK comes out of there!"
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;30783879]Does it make any less sense than liking breasts? [/QUOTE] Breast fetishists are accepted because it's so prevalent. Start exposing breasts and covering noses and the fetish will shift. It's the same reason a lot of older men get off on legs.
I don't know much about slaughtering cows, but I'm going to imagine we've come up with better methods since two-thousand plus years ago. Good on these guys... I'd tread carefully though, I hear [I]1 in 6 children will be abducted by the Dutch[/I]. [img]http://portal.biringa.com/images/5/55/FactCore.png[/img]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30783851]You might have a point if it wasn't for the fact that animals do have rights.[/QUOTE] Why should I respect the rights of an animal. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;30783750] you my as well have just posted this, considering it's the only part of your post that matters that being said, that's pretty despicable[/QUOTE] As far as I'm concerned in any situation where there is a choice between animal welfare, and human welfare, I choose the human.
[QUOTE=Novistador;30784060]Why should I respect the rights of an animal.[/QUOTE] [quote=Wikipedia]Scientific classification [i]Kingdom: Animalia[/i] Phylum: Chordata Class: Mammalia Order: Primates Family: Hominidae Tribe: Hominini Genus: Homo Species: H. sapiens[/quote]
How about we just fucking stop slaughtering animals entirely.
[QUOTE=NinjaWilko;30780295]There are people though who would purposefully refuse to learn even the slightest hint of their none-native tongue.[/QUOTE] like the people complaining about foreign languages???
[QUOTE=Jacam12SUX;30784116]How about we just fucking stop slaughtering animals entirely.[/QUOTE] Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we're not herbivores and there are no substitutes for meat as of yet.
[QUOTE=Sanius;30784140]there are no substitutes for meat as of yet.[/QUOTE] UUUUUMMMMmm
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30784165]UUUUUMMMMmm[/QUOTE] Good post.
[QUOTE=Sanius;30784092][/QUOTE] Oh how cute you know how to be a smart ass nit picker and pretend that you don't understand the commonly used definition of animal (any member of the kingdom Animalia except humans) and the scientific definition of the word animal (all members of the kingdom Animalia).
[QUOTE=Eli_r;30782854]I have no idea what's wrong. Maybe just plain discrimination. I live in a small town in Friesland (In the North of Holland) and there are quite some Turkish and Maroccan people here. A few of the older people don't speak our language that good but it doesn't matter because they get the message across. They're not forcing their religion, practices or language on us. They don't form a problem for society and they do normal work and try their best at higher education. I have no idea why our fellow dutchmen be hatin'[/QUOTE] Of course, most of 'em won't be a problem, at least not more than anyone else, including the people who were born and raised in the country. but there's always exceptions that ruin everything, create a stereotype and lead to generalisations.
[QUOTE=Jacam12SUX;30784116]How about we just fucking stop slaughtering animals entirely.[/QUOTE] I seem to want to interpret this post not to literally say we should stop slaughtering, but to sarcastically say how silly the Dutch ruling is when slaughter still occurs.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;30783879]Does it make any less sense than liking breasts? Imagine an alternate world where nosefucking is a normal, accepted part of sex, and a guy asks his wife for the favor of letting him kiss her breasts and she's like "EWW NO pervert! MILK comes out of there!"[/QUOTE] But. But. B- HOW?!
[QUOTE=Stopper;30784470]But. But. B- HOW?![/QUOTE] lol I dunno. I have a foot fetish, I'm one to talk about partialisms.
I'm from Holland and i always smoke pot on my wooden shoe's while i spit at races other than mine. [sp]This is what thisispain wants to hear from us so here you go.[/sp]
[QUOTE=thisispain;30779209] low education? your fucking education is free. [/QUOTE] You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make it drink. You can lead a child to knowledge but you can not make it learn.
[QUOTE=Novistador;30784060]Why should I respect the rights of an animal. [/QUOTE] Because it's the law? You know, like your rights
[QUOTE=Novistador;30783583] Also for all the bitching I hear about northern Europe being some sort of liberal paradise, a lot of those countries seem to be pretty racist, what with the minaret ban and now this. The liberal hippies here complain about a lack of halal and kosher food. [/QUOTE] Your posts are just downright fucking creepy at times. You and Pol Pot would have a lot of fun together. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Novistador;30783583] I feel as if you enjoy torturing the animals you eat it reveals some kind of weird sadistic aspect of your personality.[/QUOTE] I'm slightly shocked you don't do this yourself.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30786131]Because it's the law? You know, like your rights[/QUOTE] Rights don't come from the law, they are recognized by the law. Laws aren't universal absolutes that determine whether or not things exist, but rather laws made to recognize and acknowledged the legitimacy of rights. If an law is passes which violates rights, the right still exists it is just not recognized by the lawmaker. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=amute;30786338]Your posts are just downright fucking creepy at times. You and Pol Pot would have a lot of fun together. [/QUOTE] Please enlighten me about the connection between my observation about the differing opinion with regards to religious food laws, between the left of the east coast of Canada, and the left of the Netherlands, and the views of genocidal Cambodian communist dictator pol pot. [quote] I'm slightly shocked you don't do this yourself.[/QUOTE] Oh thanks, an ad hominem, I'm glad you remember how much I like those. Since animals do not posses the conceptual mind of a human being, they do not posses rights, This differing mind and level of intelligence is the fundamental difference that sets human beings apart from all other species. There are specific values you can gain from killing an animal, such as nutrition, or clothing materials, however you don't need to specifically inflict pain upon the animal to obtain these things so I see no reason to do so, and I don't know why you would inflict such unnecessary pain and maiming unless you derived pleasure from doing so, which would make you a Sadist, and a rather dangerous person to be around for both Humans and animals. The fact that animals do not have rights like human beings does not prevent us from empathizing with them, and although I acknowledge my well being and enjoyment of my life to be more important than their liberty/"right" to life/whatever I do not take joy in the pain that I have to inflict in order to improve my life with their body.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;30778601]if it's less humane than normal ways of slaughter then i agree with this.[/QUOTE] So have you seen how animals normally get slaughtered these days?
Lets see: [B]School:[/B] -You dont have to pay for it if you cant afford it. (family income calculated) -Higher educations are never free and only become free if you finish them within 10 years. You only get 4 years of payment and free travel and you still have to pay a minimum of 1600 per quarter whatever you do. [B]Language:[/B] -If people come here and dont speak dutch thats fine, if they however cannot get a job due to that fact (or cant get a job even if you speak dutch) they should be kicked out to stop them from leeching of everyone including their own that do work. -A few of my professors only speak english (they are all kinds of colours btw) but nobody ever thought of kicking them out because they do such a valuable job. -Oh and every immigrant does get language and ethics lessons, but they just dont take. Recent reports about them claim that integration programmes have failed. [B] Muslims:[/B] -I have a few classmates and 3 work colleages that are muslim and wouldnt hurt a fly. One of my colleages is named Mohammed and islamic as can be and he is the best guy I ever worked with. Im an heavy atheist while he very much believes in what the koran says we discuss but never clash on that. I learned a great deal about their culture from him from the ramadan to pride. All of these guys have the fact that they hate the regular hanging around the street fur collar kinda guys/troublemakers that give them a bad name. [B]Why muslims?:[/B] That bad name is a generalization but its also a just one, I never hear any storys about how we want the Polish or chinese out of the country. Its always the muslims(or moreso Marrokans and Antilleans), they must have done something to cause that. It also doesnt help their cause that: -I was threatened with a baseball bat by Marrokans for my christmass package in Gouda. -One of my girlfriends was almost raped by Antilleans in Rotterdam -If not for my friends I would have been beaten up my a group of Marrokans in Nieuwerkerk aan den IJssel. -One of my friends got stabbed twice in rotterdam because he didnt want to give up his wallet by Marrokans. -The people that are ruining new years eve year after year and force the riot police to sweep the place are always marrokans/Antilleans. Meanwhile I have every been threatened once by general white dutch guys, and I live in the middle of a city. This all in sharp contrast to my previous statements. Generalizing is bad but there is a clue in there, They stand out as a big group but in fact its just a small part of muslims that cause troubles (you never hear about the good ones on the news) If even their fellow muslims hate their own fellow troublemaker muslims to something must be done about them not muslims in general. The solution isnt to kick all muslims (or any other troublesome immigrant) out but just the rotten apples. On topic: Lol they banned ritual slaughter but the circumstances in our farms are even worse for animals.
[QUOTE=Novistador;30786575]Since animals do not posses the conceptual mind of a human being, they do not posses rights, This differing mind and level of intelligence is the fundamental difference that sets human beings apart from all other species. There are specific values you can gain from killing an animal, such as nutrition, or clothing materials, however you don't need to specifically inflict pain upon the animal to obtain these things so I see no reason to do so, and I don't know why you would inflict such unnecessary pain and maiming unless you derived pleasure from doing so, which would make you a Sadist, and a rather dangerous person to be around for both Humans and animals. The fact that animals do not have rights like human beings does not prevent us from empathizing with them, and although I acknowledge my well being and enjoyment of my life to be more important than their liberty/"right" to life/whatever I do not take joy in the pain that I have to inflict in order to improve my life with their body.[/QUOTE] I mightn't feel so good about citing PeTA. But Google search "PETA fur farm". They skin the animal alive. It remains alive, skinned. They don't kill it because that'd harm the valuable fur. Is that not unjust?
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