Transgender 10-Year-Old, Jackie, Born A Boy, Happier As A Girl - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Test Card F;32049872]Being Bisexual/Gay/Transsexual is NOT a choice or cultural, There are examples of skeletons presumed to be homosexual from prehistoric times, And there are even cases of homosexuality in ancient rome. I'd love to see your logic of that. I was raised in a normal all-straight(But open) household and am myself bisexual, Is that caused by my culture you buffoon?[/QUOTE] My dad was raised in Florida, in the 50s, with Conservative parents, and only later did he come out about his transgender problems. Your upbringing does not make you gay/bi/trans, or anything like that. [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32049884]- snip -[/QUOTE] Nice.

[QUOTE=Test Card F;32049872]Being Bisexual/Gay/Transsexual is NOT a choice or cultural, There are examples of skeletons presumed to be homosexual from prehistoric times, And there are even cases of homosexuality in ancient rome. I'd love to see your logic of that. I was raised in a normal all-straight(But open) household and am myself bisexual, Is that caused by my culture you buffoon?[/QUOTE] Well probably, you're a member of facepunch and you piss out of your window.

-snip-

[QUOTE=Metanar;32049803]It's not surprising to see hints at very young ages in these cases. I knew that there was something wrong with me at around age 5; I just liked playing with girls and hated being forced to get involved in more boyish things (sports etc) since pre-school. Eventually it just ticked over in my head that I would rather be a girl than a boy, and that just mounted up and mounted up until very recently when I finally decided that I needed to do something about it. I guess my point is, at that age you might not understand transsexualism, or even the concept of gender at all that young but you can often see signs from very early on, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could trace them all[/QUOTE] Let's put it this way, how old were you when you made this decision.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32049777]If it is a neurological defect, you can't cure them of that. Why would you try to dissuade them or try to 'treat' them? It's like counseling a homosexual to decide to be a heterosexual. Let them do it if they want.[/QUOTE] Being a homosexual doesn't entail suffering one of the most complex, invasive procedures on the planet. And you can't treat neurological defects, but you can treat the psychological effects. Wanting to switch genders and preferring one gender sexually to the other are different things; not entirely, but enough to be substantial. Especially at the age of [B]10[/B]. We're talking someone who can't even be absolutely certain about their sexual identity yet, let alone somebody who can decide whether they want to be male or female. What I'm trying to say is, why subject someone to such a procedure (and I have to drive home the point just how radical it is, particularly with the hormone treatments) at such a young age, when they may very well change their mind later on? Why put them through the hell of all that strain from surgery and chemicals, not to mention the post-op complications and inevitable consequences of social stigma towards transgendered people if it can be avoided? I mean, the kid's [B]ten[/B]. Imagine what it would be like to be in high school, and having people know you went through that surgery, and that you were once a different gender...if there's a more severe description of hell, I haven't heard it. If he/she makes it to 17 and still wants the switch, or at least two psychologists evaluate it as being a safe choice after or during puberty, then by all means, allow the surgery and let the person be happy. There's no reason to restrain them from what they truly want. But precautions should be taken to ensure the optimal ending...with as little suffering for anybody involved as possible. I'd imagine LGBT groups would be quite the aid.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32049900]My dad was raised in Florida, in the 50s, with Conservative parents, and only later did he come out about his transgender problems. Your upbringing does not make you gay/bi/trans, or anything like that. [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] Nice.[/QUOTE] Indeed. That is what i was saying.

I find this more disturbing than a real-life Frankenstein

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32049777]If it is a neurological defect, you can't cure them of that. Why would you try to dissuade them or try to 'treat' them? It's like counseling a homosexual to decide to be a heterosexual. Let them do it if they want.[/QUOTE] Alternatively, one might compare it to counseling a person with Body Integrity Identity Disorder, a disorder that causes you to desire to amputate one or more parts of your body needlessly, that they [i]don't need to[/i] cut off their arm.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;32049920]Let's put it this way, how old were you when you made this decision.[/QUOTE] I was/am 16 when I finally said I needed to do something.

if this kid wants a sex change then she better get it fast before puberty kicks in, that tends to fuck up gender surgeries

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32049859] Well then I guess it's good that no surgery's been done, eh?[/QUOTE] I guess.

[QUOTE=Arachnidus;32049922]Being a homosexual doesn't entail suffering one of the most complex, invasive procedures on the planet. And you can't treat neurological defects, but you can treat the psychological effects. Wanting to switch genders and preferring one gender sexually to the other are different things; not entirely, but enough to be substantial. Especially at the age of [B]10[/B]. We're talking someone who can't even be absolutely certain about their sexual identity yet, let alone somebody who can decide whether they want to be male or female. What I'm trying to say is, why subject someone to such a procedure (and I have to drive home the point just how radical it is, particularly with the hormone treatments) at such a young age, when they may very well change their mind later on? Why put them through the hell of all that strain from surgery and chemicals, not to mention the post-op complications and inevitable consequences of social stigma towards transgendered people if it can be avoided? I mean, the kid's [B]ten[/B]. Imagine what it would be like to be in high school, and having people know you went through that surgery, and that you were once a different gender...if there's a more severe description of hell, I haven't heard it. If he/she makes it to 17 and still wants the switch, or at least two psychologists evaluate it as being a safe choice after or during puberty, then by all means, allow the surgery and let the person be happy. There's no reason to restrain them from what they truly want. But precautions should be taken to ensure the optimal ending...with as little suffering for anybody involved as possible. I'd imagine LGBT groups would be quite the aid.[/QUOTE] Why do you continue to make a big to-do about why they subjected her to surgery, when there was no surgery?

[QUOTE=Wam;32049690]Liking certain colours and liking doing certain things is nothing to do with his gender identity. We only think pink is a girl colour because our culture tells us it is, for all we know, he just finds it aesthetically pleasing, theres nothing 'girly' about it. Telling him he's a girl because he finds certain colours and clothing aesthetically pleasing is absolutely retarded, and is going to fuck this kid, who is probably perfectly fine with being a guy, its just his parents go 'you like pink and dolls? YOU MUST BE A GIRL INSIDE'[/QUOTE] Gender identity disorder isnt that simple you dumb twat.

transgenderism is so complex to me I couldn't even fathom how to understand it she can have the surgery or whatever and I won't persecute her for it but by golly is it some weird shit

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32050035]Why do you continue to make a big to-do about why they subjected her to surgery, when there was no surgery?[/QUOTE] I didn't say they did subject her to it, I'm saying talking about doing it in general. A hypothetical about the way this might end.

Let me say it again, the kid is ONLY 10. ONLY 10. 10 is not exactly the age of rational decisions.

[QUOTE=TBFundy;32050047]transgenderism is so complex to me I couldn't even fathom how to understand it she can have the surgery or whatever and I won't persecute her for it but by golly is it some weird shit[/QUOTE] A transgender is a person who is born in a male or female body, but their personality does not match up with their body So a person can have a female gender (non-tangible) and a male body (tangible) [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zambies!;32050092]Let me say it again, the kid is ONLY 10. ONLY 10. 10 is not exactly the age of rational decisions.[/QUOTE] yeah because someone is totally incapable of making a rational decision at the age of ten :downs:

I'm no doctor but I don't think a sex change operation is one of the most complex and invasive procedures in medicine. How is one surgery more invasive than another? If anything I'd say heart transplants, brain surgery, and the like are more invasive.

[QUOTE=apurplerock;32050101]A transgender is a person who is born in a male or female body, but their personality does not match up with their body So a person can have a female gender (non-tangible) and a male body (tangible)[/QUOTE] Don't forget the non binary gender identities; like androgynous (Sort of a mix), gender-fluid (Interchangeable) and gender-queer (Neither male nor female).

[QUOTE=Zambies!;32050092]Let me say it again, the kid is ONLY 10. ONLY 10. 10 is not exactly the age of rational decisions.[/QUOTE] That's the dilemma with this. Generally speaking, transgendered folks won't change their minds. It runs deeper than a simple discomfort. As much as I love being right and will work to disprove anybody who's got a dissenting opinion from me (self esteem problems), that comparison earlier about it being like homosexuality does have some merit. One does not choose to be gay, and there is no "curing" it, just as there is no "curing" transgenderism. However, why I advocate for counseling in place of surgery in such a case as the article's, is because the subject is 10. At that age...there's just so much to consider.

[QUOTE=Metanar;32050139]Don't forget the non binary gender identities; like androgynous (Sort of a mix), gender-fluid (Interchangeable) and gender-queer (Neither male nor female).[/QUOTE] Explain this gender-queer. I've never heard of it.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;32050092]Let me say it again, the kid is ONLY 10. ONLY 10. 10 is not exactly the age of rational decisions.[/QUOTE] Let me say it again, nobody is sending a ten year old through gender reassignment surgery. They're letting her dress and live like a girl until further evaluation.

[QUOTE=Arachnidus;32050147]That's the dilemma with this. Generally speaking, transgendered folks won't change their minds. It runs deeper than a simple discomfort. As much as I love being right and will work to disprove anybody who's got a dissenting opinion from me (self esteem problems), that comparison earlier about it being like homosexuality does have some merit. One does not choose to be gay, and there is no "curing" it, just as there is no "curing" transgenderism. However, why I advocate for counseling in place of surgery in such a case as the article's, is because the subject is 10. At that age...there's just so much to consider.[/QUOTE] You're advocating for something the articles doesn't say is happening one way or the other.

[QUOTE=CQRPSE;32050113]I'm no doctor but I don't think a sex change operation is one of the most complex and invasive procedures in medicine. How is one surgery more invasive than another? If anything I'd say heart transplants, brain surgery, and the like are more invasive.[/QUOTE] Theres several surgeries along with hormone treatment and just a big list of things.

[QUOTE=Arachnidus;32050147]That's the dilemma with this. Generally speaking, transgendered folks won't change their minds. It runs deeper than a simple discomfort. As much as I love being right and will work to disprove anybody who's got a dissenting opinion from me (self esteem problems), that comparison earlier about it being like homosexuality does have some merit. One does not choose to be gay, and there is no "curing" it, just as there is no "curing" transgenderism. However, why I advocate for counseling in place of surgery in such a case as the article's, is because the subject is 10. At that age...there's just so much to consider.[/QUOTE] As above, though, she is simply dressing and living as a girl until further testing is done, which I find nothing wrong with. She WILL be getting counseling, they don't just skip to surgey willy-nilly.

[QUOTE=Arachnidus;32050058]I didn't say they did subject her to it, I'm saying talking about doing it in general. A hypothetical about the way this might end.[/QUOTE] In the future (as in years from now), surgery would only occur after hormone treatment, psychological evaluation, and patient as well as parental consent (if she's still a minor). If that ends up being the scenario, I'd see no problem with this.

[QUOTE=CQRPSE;32050113]I'm no doctor but I don't think a sex change operation is one of the most complex and invasive procedures in medicine. How is one surgery more invasive than another? If anything I'd say heart transplants, brain surgery, and the like are more invasive.[/QUOTE] It all depends on the surgeon's skill, the region it's being done in and what exactly is being done. A full blown heart transplant or excising a tumor from a brain is complex in it's own right, but the sheer plastic surgery skill required for such a cosmetic procedure is almost as serious. Whereas in those emergency/medical surgeries, one works only for it to function optimally, a cosmetic surgery is meant to look real. The goal of a gender change surgery is to make it look like the person was born the gender they wanted to be born in. So you have to balance biology and physiology with cosmetics, as simply giving them hormones and replicating being a woman won't satisfy a male who wants a change, and visa versa.

I would say its a pretty invasive surgery as it means the person receiving it will be effectively unable to reproduce.

[QUOTE=Nikota;32050174]Theres several surgeries along with hormone treatment and just a big list of things.[/QUOTE] I'll be honest, I don't know anything about hormone therapy. Is it a pill you take? Shots you get? I dunno. But I have seen a male-to-female sex change operation performed in full. Compared to other procedures that are probably much more typical than a sex change, it's not that complex.

[QUOTE=CQRPSE;32050151]Explain this gender-queer. I've never heard of it.[/QUOTE] I don't fully understand it myself, but it's a broad term for people who identify as a mix of the two genders, genderless or some kind of third gender.