Federal Europe will be 'a reality in a few years', says Jose Manuel Barroso
287 replies, posted
no thanks
[QUOTE=Angus725;40561642][img]http://thomaswentzel.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/EUSSR.jpg[/img]
Go go[/QUOTE]what's with the square and compasse-
oh
[B]OH[/B]
[QUOTE=Graavis;40561699]I think a European fed would undermine the extremly unique cultural flavours of the individual countries of Europe.[/QUOTE]
Union with England didn't destroy Scottish culture.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40561677]They are different people so "unity" with them is a rather odd concept, no?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Graavis;40561699]I think a European fed would undermine the extremly unique cultural flavours of the individual countries of Europe.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I don't understand why some people are so eager to bundle together different people.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;40561698]There are things that should be determined by the individual state imo, local laws that don't make sense in different cultures or climates. For example, here in Finland, it's the law that you need to keep your car headlights on all the time, as for a good portion of the year it's really dark during the day. This wouldn't make sense in Spain or other southern countries.[/QUOTE]
the federation could decide those laws area by area, I mean more as not having each state be able to easily control it's own laws on things like gun control and tax duties directly, not having completely universal laws
[QUOTE=Graavis;40561699]I think a European fed would undermine the extremly unique cultural flavours of the individual countries of Europe.[/QUOTE]
well if you think that's the case then perhaps you should look at other federal nations, or countries that have undergone personal union. England is very different from Scotland in its culture, but they have been in a state of personal union for ~300 years
[QUOTE=Hellsten;40561735]Yes. I don't understand why some people are so eager to bundle together different people.[/QUOTE]
Can't see why some people want to keep them apart.
[QUOTE=Eltro102;40561710]the whole point is that they're not very different people nor should they be[/QUOTE]
Why the hell shouldn't they be? It's nice that there are differences.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40561598]So long as it's just a very charismatic Trudeaumania type democratically elected person in this case... I'm cool with it.[/QUOTE]
Except Trudeau was an incredibly divisive leader, and royally pissed off Quebec when patriating the Constitution.
itt: us v them
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;40561761]Except Trudeau was an incredibly divisive leader, and royally pissed off Quebec when patriating the Constitution.[/QUOTE]
So?
[QUOTE=Hellsten;40561756]Why the hell shouldn't they be? It's nice that there are differences.[/QUOTE]
opinion
[QUOTE=Hellsten;40561735]Yes. I don't understand why some people are so eager to bundle together different people.[/QUOTE]
i dont understand why people would be so opposed to it
[QUOTE=Hellduck;40561775]i dont understand why people would be so opposed to it[/QUOTE]
did you not see yugoslavia in the 90s
forcing together different people is a [I]bad idea[/I]
We first have to break down the bureaucracy barriers. So many independent governments under a bigger one, the EU is on the brink of being a bloated monster.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40561772]So?[/QUOTE]
When trying to unite people, a divisive leader is counterproductive.
I think a lot of people get confused with what peace is here. Peace is tolerance. Not uniting under one banner.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;40561809]When trying to unite people, a divisive leader is counterproductive.[/QUOTE]
So long as you get enough folks in enough places for a referendum to work...
You don't need to federalize Europe just to sustain peace, trading opportunities and co-operation.
Alternatively, we could just make it as easy to travel between countries in the EU as it is within these countries, standardize infrastructure and communications, no tariffs, etc.
Also we need to eliminate subsidized (particularly French) agriculture. It leeches off the rest of Europe.
[QUOTE=Eltro102;40561774]opinion[/QUOTE]
Would you honestly like to live in a more conformed world?
[QUOTE=Graavis;40561814]I think a lot of people get confused with what peace is here. Peace is tolerance. Not uniting under one banner.[/QUOTE]
well i can't speak for everyone, but i am in favour of uniting under one banner. you are not more capable of interpreting people's opinions than they are
A federal Europe will ensure that the Euro lives on, if Europe does not become on superstate then the Euro is finished. Differing Fiscal policy between countries without trade boundaries was never going to work..
[QUOTE=Hellduck;40561854]well i can't speak for everyone, but i am in favour of uniting under one banner. you are not more capable of interpreting people's opinions than they are[/QUOTE]
but why
like what advantage does that bring to anyone
free trade agreements and lack of war are already attainable without lebensraum, what else is there to want?
[QUOTE=Graavis;40561846]Would you honestly like to live in a more conformed world?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hellduck;40561745]well if you think that's the case then perhaps you should look at other federal nations, or countries that have undergone personal union. England is very different from Scotland in its culture, but they have been in a state of personal union for ~300 years[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40561864]but why
like what advantage does that bring to anyone
free trade agreements and lack of war are already attainable without lebensraum, what else is there to want?[/QUOTE]
A united Europe can pull its weight more efficiently in international politics, for one
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40561864]but why
like what advantage does that bring to anyone
free trade agreements and lack of war are already attainable without lebensraum, what else is there to want?[/QUOTE]
an idealogical sense of unity between all people that is sorely lacking. this is a step towards that i think.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;40561875] quotes[/QUOTE]
He said that it was opinion that having differences is nice, and although it may be an opinion. I was questioning whether or not he seriously disagreed with it as he implied.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40561783]did you not see yugoslavia in the 90s
forcing together different people is a [I]bad idea[/I][/QUOTE]
the only use a federal europe would have is to swing its weight around in politics and be a major world power.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;40561745]well if you think that's the case then perhaps you should look at other federal nations, or countries that have undergone personal union. England is very different from Scotland in its culture, but they have been in a state of personal union for ~300 years[/QUOTE]
Is this the same Scotland who will shortly be voting whether they want to leave the union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland?
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