New PlayStation Network Terms of Service Include a No Suing Sony And a No Class-action Lawsuit Claus
48 replies, posted
[video=youtube;McDUZb4NA5k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McDUZb4NA5k&feature=feedu[/video]
This guy makes some great points. This is bullshit.
I wish ToS's were actually coherent for people who didn't go to law school, and that buying a game means you own the game, not just a license to play it.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;32314291]I wish ToS's were actually coherent for people who didn't go to law school, and that buying a game means you own the game, not just a license to play it.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the last bit, it's not often in life you agree to the conditions of using a product (or the right to use a product at any rate) AFTER you've already paid for it. In the realm of Common Fucking Sense Land it's usually agree to contract first, THEN pay.
[QUOTE=taipan;32302022]Im gonna sign a contract with myself that nobody can sue me.[/QUOTE]
Sir I am filing a law suit against the law itself for allowing such invulnerability! I will have my justice!
[editline]16th September 2011[/editline]
Honestly, I'm about half expecting ToS's to become illegal in time entirely because of companies abusing it with shit like this. No body wastes 2 hours of their time to read an agreement. They want to play their fucking games, why would they waste time even reading the damn manual? I believe that some day the law will dictate that when you purchase a product, you own that product and not just a licence to play it.
Think about it this way, when you buy a game does the company hand you a contract before you pay for it saying "Buy purchasing our product you hereby throw away your right to alter this product in any way and/or to do anything other than playing this game. You also agree that you will not illegally play this game without agreeing to our ToS. Should you decide this infringes on your rights as a human being and/or a working man/woman, you also agree that you will not take this disagreement to the court of law and that you instead lose out on renting this current product now and in the future."
Okay I went a bit too far, I think most will get the just of it by the first bit, but still. If they do not hand you a contract as you buy it, I personally believe that any ToS or alteration to the ToS afterward is invalid and null.
WTF?
[release] IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT.[/release]
So, to opt out, you have to send them a letter saying you agree to the ToS?
p. sure that if you don't agree to it then they can't do anything. Legally, that is.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;32325547]p. sure that if you don't agree to it then they can't do anything. Legally, that is.[/QUOTE]
If you don't agree to it you can't play online.
[QUOTE=commander204;32305757]How can this even pass? I am sure this is illegal in Europe.[/QUOTE]
Haven't terms of services and EULA's been tested in various EU courts and been found not to be legally binding?
I find it sad that ToSs can be legal when nobody but a lawyer could decipher what most of them mean.
The wording on most TOSs is pretty simple.
And the general rule in Europe is, that a consumer herself cannot willingly agree to have her rights shortened and the minimal legal rights have to be followed no matter what is in the agreement.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;32302923]We the customers of these software agreements should make our own EULA, in which it states " you can't sue us if we sue you" clause.[/QUOTE]
So if we are making our own EULA, we need to be a service of some description.
Any ideas?
Actually, nevermind, I can't see every facepunch user agreeing on a single thing.
[QUOTE=Ridge;32315048]WTF?
[release] IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT.[/release]
So, to opt out, you have to send them a letter saying you agree to the ToS?[/QUOTE]
You can't even opt out of Steam's so what are you whinning about :v:?
So instead of fixing their issues, they just made it so no one could scowl them for it.
I hope they burn again in a 'hacker' shitstorm.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32337228]So instead of fixing their issues, they just made it so no one could scowl them for it.
I hope they burn again in a 'hacker' shitstorm.[/QUOTE]
Your a fucking moron sometimes.
Millions of innocent bystanders had their personal details at risk, and you are hoping for it to happen again because they did something most other companies did before the media was giving them attention?
[QUOTE=Ridge;32315048]WTF?
[release] IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT.[/release]
So, to opt out, you have to send them a letter saying you agree to the ToS?[/QUOTE]
I think "this agreement" in that context is referring to the agreement that you're opting out.
[editline]17th September 2011[/editline]
Update:
[url=http://gamepolitics.com/2011/09/16/new-psn-tos-likely-not-enforceable-uk-says-lawyer]"Not enforceable in the UK", says a lawyer[/url]
To me, this is like how when you sign up for a martial art, you sign a waiver saying they aren't responsible if you get hurt (under most circumstances. There are some circumstances in which they would be responsible for your injury), and that you basically can't sue if you get hurt. Not exactly sure how this keeps them insured though. I mean if you get a PS3 and for some crazy reason, it malfunctions and injures you, can you not sue? I get that you can't sue for, say, something like PSN being down, but if Sony breaches a policy or something, surely legal action could probably be taken, right?
I mean, what happens if someone does try to bring up a case? Does the judge rule it out or something? Do they get fined?
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;32314291]I wish ToS's were actually coherent for people who didn't go to law school, and that buying a game means you own the game, not just a license to play it.[/QUOTE]
Actually buying the game would legally mean it is completely okay for you to use it for commercial purposes, and selling it fully or parts of it.
That's why you buy the right to play the game.
[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;32331010]I find it sad that ToSs can be legal when nobody but a lawyer could decipher what most of them mean.[/QUOTE]
It can be somewhat inconvenient reading them but it's not really that hard.
[QUOTE=STeel;32345642]Actually buying the game would legally mean it is completely okay for you to use it for commercial purposes, and selling it fully or parts of it.
That's why you buy the right to play the game.
It can be somewhat inconvenient reading them but it's not really that hard.[/QUOTE]it's not only reading them, sometimes they can use phrases or terms that the average person wouldn't be familiar with.
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