Blueprints on the steam store? A bad idea or the Baddest idea? - Rust

[QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46315342]No! I didn't necessarily realize that I was not as satisfied....[/QUOTE] So? Perception does not always equal fact or reality. Because you do not relize or do not think you are not satisfied does not mean you are satisfied in reality. [QUOTE]I still could have been satisfied by it alone. [/QUOTE] But you werent and wont be if you go the steam store. That is not the point though. The point is, the new information caused you to reevaluate, it does not matter what the outcome of the revaulation is. [QUOTE]That is possible according to what satisfaction means. [/QUOTE] Yes, it is possible but you've maintained that your assessement of your satisfcation was correct despite changing it to eat the choclate cake. It is impossible for you to be satsified at the point and time when you eat the cheese cake then eat the choclate cake upon discovery. If you were satsified, you would never eaten the chocalate cake. [QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46315342]We seem to be banging against a brick wall pretty hard right now...[/QUOTE] I know...it all goes back to incorrectly assuming I was wrong about a few things and using fallacies to back it up.

[QUOTE=billy79;46315419]If you were satsified, you would never eaten the chocalate cake.[/QUOTE] Why not? Again, I don't think you know what being satisfied means. [QUOTE]I know...it all goes back to incorrectly assuming I was wrong about a few things and using fallacies to back it up.[/QUOTE] I never used any fallacies to back up anything. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else?

this really has degenerated into a glass half full/half empty argument between you two. firstly, satisfaction is a subjective variable. to be more satisfied now than you were 2 minutes ago does not mean you we're previously dissatisfied; only that you were less satisfied then than you are now in comparison. at the time, your satisfaction was unchanged. secondly, you are still arguing about the way each of your arguments were formed, not the content. in fact about 30 posts overnight that did so. how about we move back to conversation about the topic.

I'd like to point out this entire line of dicussion is born out of a certain someones definition of design that included "satsifaction". [QUOTE=mrknifey;46315498]firstly, satisfaction is a subjective variable..[/QUOTE] That constantly changes. [QUOTE] to be more satisfied now than you were 2 minutes ago does not mean you we're previously dissatisfied;[/QUOTE] It does mean you are more statisfied than you were before or were not as satisfied as before. You guys keep putting these adjatives like "dissastisfied" and "unsatsified" into the equation, stop that. This is what I found to kind of highlight why this is a problem: [QUOTE]the opposite of satisfation is not dissatisfcation, but rather no satisfaction. [/QUOTE][url]http://www.netmba.com/mgmt/ob/motivation/herzberg/[/url] But as we all are aware there are varying levels of satsifcation inbetween, yet you guys jump to the extereme oppsisite or one with negative connotations in an attempt to assign a value to being less satisfied when presented with the fact you may not be as satsifed with a particualar concept or object when new information or variables are presented

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46309924]the only people making money are players, and doing so on found items that honestly they don't own.[/QUOTE] No we will be able to buy items from the market with money.. Steam receives this money and distributes credits for games : they do not give the money back. So Steam will be making most of the money and Garry will get his cut.

[QUOTE]I never used any fallacies to back up anything. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else? [/QUOTE] Your preception that you have not used a fallacy is not reality. You can believe what you want, however incorrect it is.

[QUOTE=vachon644;46315761]No we will be able to buy items from the market with money.. Steam receives this money and distributes credits for games : they do not give the money back. So Steam will be making most of the money and Garry will get his cut.[/QUOTE] Elitewhitetail all ready went over this. No, the ARTIST will be making most of the money. 80+%

[QUOTE=utilitron;46314914]cherry picking in this sort of a scenario with cake isn't being offered cheesecake and accepting it and then being told "by the way there is also chocolate but you already picked cheesecake" and you're like "why didn't you tell me that before, you cherry picker." No.. It's like being offered award winning cheesecake and what you're not being told is that the award was for worst fucking cheesecake.[/QUOTE] This is fundementally incorrect. [QUOTE]Cherry picking, suppressing evidence (making the chocalate cake unknown to the eater), or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data (cheese cake) that seem to confirm a particular position (satisfcation), while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data (choclate cake) that may contradict that position (being satisfied).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=billy79;46315742] yet you guys jump to the extereme oppsisite or one with negative connotations in an attempt to assign a value to being less satisfied when presented with the fact you may not be as satsifed with a particualar concept or object when new information or variables are presented[/QUOTE] That is incredibly ironic, because I've pointed out several times that it is your misuse of satisfaction in exactly this way that led to your flawed arguments. Perhaps you should reread the thread and educate yourself? [QUOTE]Your preception that you have not used a fallacy is not reality. You can believe what you want, however incorrect it is.[/QUOTE] It's not reality? Just because you have an opinion, that does not make it a fact. You just keep spouting nonsense as fact, as if you have some sort of authority that you do not possess.

[QUOTE=billy79;46315742]That constantly changes.[/QUOTE] yes:) we agree on that entirely. [QUOTE]It does mean you are more satisfied than you were before or were not as satisfied as before. "the opposite of satisfaction is not dissatisfaction, but rather no satisfaction".[/QUOTE] i'm afraid we disagree there, but again i think in pedantry. i wholeheartedly agree with the quote, but disagree with the assumption that you were "not as satisfied before". at the time you were either satisfied or not. and although it can be said that you are now more satisfied then you were, it cannot be guaranteed that you were less satisfied at the time compared to now, since the feelings of greater satisfaction are only existant in the presence of the new variable. until you make it measurable data, like "here's some cheesecake. rate your satisfaction out of 10. now here is some chocolate cake, please rate your satisfaction again out of 10" you can't really compare the states in the events objectively. god, now i'm doing it...stop it you bastard!!XD [QUOTE]But as we all are aware there are varying levels of satisfaction in between, yet you guys jump to the extreme opposite or one with negative connotations in an attempt to assign a value to being less satisfied when presented with the fact you may not be as satisfied with a particular concept or object when new information or variables are presented.[/QUOTE] extremes are easier to make examples of. the grey areas become far more subjective without some kind of mutally agreed upon grading system. good/bad, right/wrong, happy/sad are easily understood, pre-existing (and somewhat agreed upon) grades of the variable. and much more suitable to hypothetical argument anyway. [QUOTE=vachon644;46315761]No we will be able to buy items from the market with money.. Steam receives this money and distributes credits for games : they do not give the money back. So Steam will be making most of the money and Garry will get his cut.[/QUOTE] i think i get what you are trying to say, but thats not entirely correct. steam and fp will make a cut, but they will make the smallest cuts. the artist will gain the greatest income from it, and the player who finds it makes "money" selling the item. yes it's steam money whereas the rest presumably get the real thing, but it is still income. many people put real money into steam to buy games, items, DLC etc. this would supplement that, making it kind of like gift cards or store credit. real money, just locked into one business.

[QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46316221]That is incredibly ironic, because I've pointed out several times that it is your misuse of satisfaction in exactly this way that led to your flawed arguments.[/quote] No, that would you beating your strawman. You continue to argue from the perspective that I'm saying "dissatisfied" or "unsatsified" when I say less satisfied or more more satisfied. You are one of the few who thinks wanting something while satisfied is a logical and intelligent position to have, not understanding its contradictory.

[QUOTE=billy79;46316284] You are one of the few who thinks wanting something while satisfied is a logical and intelligent position to have.[/QUOTE] It is possible to want something while satisfied, which I have explained numerous times already. It's not my fault that you can't seem to understand such a simple idea. I'll urge you again to look up what the word satisfied means. Then you may be able to comprehend a lot more posts in this thread.

[QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46316317]It is possible to want something while satisfied, which I have explained numerous times already..[/QUOTE] And its still fucking wrong. [QUOTE] sat·is·fied/ˈsadəsˌfīd/ adjective contented; pleased. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]sat·is·fy/ˈsadəsˌfī/ verb meet the expectations, needs, or desires of (someone). [/QUOTE] Its impossible to be content[B]ed[/B] or satisfied if you want, need, or desire something. [QUOTE] It's not my fault that you can't seem to understand such a simple idea.[/QUOTE] LOL. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] Its quite simple really...it really is. If you desire, want or need something, you are no longer satisfied. The entire purpose of the fucking word to tell people you are happy and your expectations are met [U][/U][B]and do not need, want or desire anything else[/B].

[QUOTE=oXYnary;46315929]Elitewhitetail all ready went over this. No, the ARTIST will be making most of the money. 80+%[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I heard there will not be a store to buy blueprints for a base price. The submitted content will be managed by Facepunch and included in the game. The only way to get the global blueprints are from Rust playtime/objectives or traded/community marketplace. With this, the artist will not get 80% of it, the person who received the blueprint from Steam and placed it on the marketplace will. Also, it's nice to see a post concerning Rust.

careful guys, this is starting to degenerate into a brawl.

[QUOTE=billy79;46316340]Its impossible to be content[B]ed[/B] or satisfied if you want, need, or desire something.[/QUOTE] I don't know where you found those definitions (although they're similar enough anyway), but here are the relevant Merriam-Webster Dictionary definitions: sat·is·fy verb \ˈsa-təs-ˌfī\ : to cause (someone) to be happy or pleased : to provide, do, or have what is required by (someone or something) Simply having or consuming something that either makes one happy, or is required, does not mean that one cannot have or consume more of it. As yet another example, in order for your hunger to be satisfied, you must eat a certain amount of food. Eating more food on top of that does not mean that your hunger was not satisfied. So, if your gaming needs are satisfied by Rust, using the market does not mean that Rust is not satisfying by itself. Get it?

to put a complete end to (a physical need or desire) <the players satisfied their hunger after the game with a big pasta dinner> [url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satisfied[/url] Its not linking correctly. It keep linking satisfy....when we are dicussing satisfied.

[QUOTE=billy79;46316469]to put a complete end to (a physical need or desire) <the players satisfied their hunger after the game with a big pasta dinner> [url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satisfy[/url][/QUOTE] That's in the thesaurus, not the dictionary...lol Regardless, it doesn't contradict my statements. The players may have kept eating after the big pasta dinner even though their hunger was satisfied. Also, that's only one definition (and I'm not even sure about that due to its origin), while the others still can apply to the word. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=billy79;46316469]to put a complete end to (a physical need or desire) <the players satisfied their hunger after the game with a big pasta dinner> [url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satisfied[/url][/QUOTE] sat·is·fy verb \ˈsa-təs-ˌfī\ : to cause (someone) to be happy or pleased : to provide, do, or have what is required by (someone or something) : to cause (someone) to believe that something is true sat·is·fiedsat·is·fy·ing Full Definition of SATISFY transitive verb 1 a : to carry out the terms of (as a contract) : discharge b : to meet a financial obligation to 2 : to make reparation to (an injured party) : indemnify 3 a : to make happy : please b : to gratify to the full : appease 4 a : convince b : to put an end to (doubt or uncertainty) : dispel 5 a : to conform to (as specifications) : be adequate to (an end in view) b : to make true by fulfilling a condition <values that satisfy an equation> <satisfy a hypothesis> intransitive verb : to be adequate : suffice; also : please — sat·is·fy·ing·ly adverb See satisfy defined for English-language learners » See satisfy defined for kids » Examples of SATISFY Nothing satisfies her so much as doing a good job. The movie's ending failed to satisfy audiences. His curiosity was satisfied by their explanation. They have satisfied themselves that the story is only a rumor. Origin of SATISFY Middle English satisfien, from Anglo-French satisfier, modification of Latin satisfacere, from satis enough + facere to do, make — more at sad, do First Known Use: 15th century [url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satisfied[/url] ???

[QUOTE=billy79;46316469]to put a complete end to (a physical need or desire) <the players satisfied their hunger after the game with a big pasta dinner> [URL]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satisfied[/URL][/QUOTE] Are you actually modifying what's in the dictionary? Here's what it really says : [QUOTE]b : to put an end to (doubt or uncertainty)[/QUOTE] Doubt or uncertainty, not a physical need or desire (you made that up). They also give a synonym for that "Dispel". That shows better the meaning of putting an end to doubt or uncertainty. [QUOTE]The canadian police satisfied the terrorist's attempt at hurting people inside the parliament. [/QUOTE] This not how not to use "Satisfied" as in "to put an end to".

The problem is, you think satisfied and satisfy are the same things. The "ed" is key. COMPLETE END. You attempting whats called a goal post shit. Telling me I do not know what satisfied means and link the definition to satisfy. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] I copied and pasted so I doubt I made up. sat·is·fied (sts-fd) adj. 1. Filled with satisfaction; content: a very satisfied customer. 2. Paid or discharged in full, as a debt or obligation. 3. Convinced beyond a doubt. [url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/satisfied[/url] satisfy [sat-is-fahy] /ˈsæt ɪsˌfaɪ/ IPASyllables verb (used with object), satisfied, satisfying. 1. to fulfill the desires, expectations, needs, or demands of (a person, the mind, etc.); give full contentment to: "The hearty meal satisfied him." 2. to put an end to (a desire, want, need, etc.) by sufficient or ample provision: [url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satisfied[/url]

[QUOTE=billy79;46316531]The problem is, you think satisfied and satisfy are the same things. The "ed" is key. COMPLETE END. You attempting whats called a goal post shit. Telling me I do not know what satisfied means and link the definition to satisfy.[/QUOTE] If something satisfies you, you are then satisfied in that respect. The associated feeling is satisfaction. These words are all from the same root and they interact in a predictable way. It all comes to the same thing. In order for Rust to satisfy you, it does NOT need to completely fulfill you so that you have no desire to do something else, such as the Steam Market. Also, I use Merriam-Websters, you use thefreedictionary.com? Seems legit.

[QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46316569]If something satisfies you, you are then satisfied in that respect. The associated feeling is satisfaction. These words are all from the same root and they interact in a predictable way. It all comes to the same thing. In order for Rust to satisfy you, it does NOT need to completely fulfill you so that you have no desire to do something else, such as the Steam Market.[/QUOTE] In order to be satisfi[I][/I][U][/U][B]ed[/B] all your needs and expecations need to be met. If they are not, you are not satisfied. Your changing the goal post. You did not say I did not know the meaning behind satisfy...you said satisfied. the "ed" indicates its the end of your desires or wants.

Lets break this all down, shall we? intrepidenigm's definition of the purpose of how a game is designed: "A game is designed for the purpose of bringing satisfaction to customer" billy79's counter argument: "when you have to go outside the game to get satisfaction, you've just failed at bringing your customers satisfaction for the money they've paid because when they leave the game to go to steam workshop, they are no longer obtaining satisfaction from the game at that moment so they are obtaining it by buying something from the steam workshop" [B]and[/B] "if you buy an item from the steam workshop this means you were not completely satisfied to begin with so you went to remedy that via another source...it means the game was incomplete" intrepidenigm's cake analogy: "If I eat a piece of cheesecake, and then I want a piece of chocolate cake, does that mean that I was dissatisfied with the cheesecake? No, perhaps I loved the cheesecake, but I just wanted some chocolate cake too." billy79's counter: "You obviously weren't satisfied with only the cheese cake and wanted more." So lets bring in some context: the word [URL="https://www.google.com/search?q=satisfaction+definition"]satisfaction[/URL] [QUOTE]fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this.[/QUOTE] So did the eating of the cheesecake produce satisfaction? There is no reason to conclude the eating of chocolate cake as proof of the cheesecake didn't fulfill his wishes, expectations, or needs from said cheesecake. So unfortunately billy79, your argument over the whether or not the cheesecake was satisfying is incorrect. your fallacy here is [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc"]Post hoc ergo propter hoc[/URL] intrepidenigm actually points this out in his next argument: "No, I was not "obviously" dissatisfied." "It is possible that I was totally satisfied with the cheesecake, but then I still wanted some chocolate cake" billy79's counter: "No amount of subjective judgments you make about the cheese cake will change the fact that you were not satisfied with only the cheese cake. The fact the cheese cake was perfect is irrelevant as to it satsifying your need/hungar/desire for more cake." billy79, here you have a oversimplification that the desire is simply for "cake" when the desire could have been specifically "cheesecake". fulfilling the desire for cheesecake was met, therefore satisfied. Chocolate cake doesn't play into this. your fallacy here is [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_single_cause"]oversimplification[/URL] intrepidenigm's next argument was to change the context of the analogy: "Let's say one never knew chocolate cake even existed. For years a person ate only cheesecake and was satisfied completely, but then upon seeing chocolate cake, he decided to have some. That does NOT mean that the cheesecake was unsatisfying. A person can want something that satisfies them in addition to something that already satisfies them." billy79's counter was simply a link to a logical fallacy: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_(fallacy)"]Cherry picking[/URL] This, however, wasn't cherry picking as the existence of chocolate cake has no bearing on the ability of cheesecake to satisfy one's desire for cheesecake. billy79, your fallacy here is [URL="https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy"]the fallacy fallacy[/URL]

[QUOTE=billy79;46316594]In order to be satisfi[I][/I][U][/U][B]ed[/B] all your needs and expecations need to be met. If they are not, you are not satisfied. Your changing the goal post.[/QUOTE] No...you're changing the definition...what is wrong with you? You're only using the one definition of many that helps your argument. And you accused me of cherry picking... All your needs and expectations do NOT need to be met in order to be satisfied. Scroll up and read all about it...

[QUOTE]So did the eating of the cheesecake produce satisfaction? There is no reason to conclude the eating of chocolate cake as proof of the cheesecake didn't fulfill his wishes, expectations, or needs from said cheesecake. So unfortunately billy79, your argument over the whether or not the cheesecake was satisfying is incorrect. your fallacy here is Post hoc ergo propter hoc[/QUOTE] You are still not getting it. While eating the cake maybe satisfying (I've never argued it was or wasnt), it does not nessairly mean you are [I]satisfied[/I]. You are equivocating the context between satisfying and satified to mean the same thing, and its not. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46316610]No...you're changing the definition...what is wrong with you? You're only using the one definition of many that helps your argument. And you accused me of cherry picking... All your needs and expectations do NOT need to be met in order to be satisfied. Scroll up and read all about it...[/QUOTE] I've linked reputable sources to the definition of satified...you've linked a defintion to satisfy. Do you not udnerstand that ed changes the context of satisfied? I can not belive you guys are ignoring the context "ed" is assoicated with.

[QUOTE=billy79;46316634]You are still not getting it. While eating the cake maybe satisfying (I've never argued it was or wasnt), it does not nessairly mean you are [I]satisfied[/I]. You are equivocating the context between satisfying and satified to mean the same thing, and its not.[/QUOTE] The word satisfied does not have one absolute meaning as you seem to think it does. It actually shares the variants of satisfy, because they are variations of the same root word. Is that hard to understand? If I satisfy someone in this way: to cause (someone) to be happy or pleased, then that person is satisfied in that way.

[QUOTE=intrepidenigm;46316668]If I satisfy someone in this way: to cause (someone) to be happy or pleased, then that person is satisfied in that way.[/QUOTE] You are a joke man.. Tell me I dont know the defition of satifi[U][/U][I][/I][B]ed[/B] and continue to talk about satisfy. Yes or no: Satisfy and satified are used differently? After a meal and you are not longer hungry, you do not say my hunger is satisfy. Please stop being stupid. You do not get done playing a game and say I'm am satisfy with what that game did for me. the "ed" brings an end to what ever it is your needing, wanting or desiring.

LOL 8 pages later and people are no longer talking about the original post.

[QUOTE=GrymThor;46316718]LOL 8 pages later and people are no longer talking about the original post.[/QUOTE] Talk to the people who do not understand the difference in context between satisfied and satisfy.

[QUOTE=billy79;46316740]Talk to the people who do not understand the difference in context between satisfied and satisfy.[/QUOTE] I understand the difference. I already explained the difference. Scroll up to read it... I'll say it again, if something satisfies you, you are satisfied. That is the difference. Rust satisfies me. In turn, I am satisfied with Rust. Do you get it yet?