Blueprints on the steam store? A bad idea or the Baddest idea? - Rust

Thanks billy79, glad i'm not losing my mind over here. I've posted before... i'm ok with facepunch looking for more ways to make money from rust. I think they are absolutely entitled. This is just a sloppy awkward way to go about it. IMO they should just make expansion sets every so often and sell them. THIS SERVER FEATURES RUST PIRATES, PRESENTING THE NEW PIRATE BIOME. MUST HAVE RUST PIRATES IN ORDER TO PLAY. you can play on vanilla rust server if you want but if you wanna play on a server running the latest and greatest shit... buy the expansion set. When you look at those posts about "what types of monsters should rust have?" to me it makes perfect sense that rust should launch with several of these optional add-on content packs. There were a million posts in that other thread asking for "dinosaurs plz" There is clearly a market for it. Gary and co. could make 6 dinosaur NPCs monsters, 3 dinosaur themed costumes a few dinosaur bone weapon and sell a "dino invasion" pack for rust for 15 dollars. I guarantee people would buy it and servers catering to dinosaur rust would pop up all over.

[QUOTE=Roonsword;46265473]IMO they should just make expansion sets every so often and sell them. [/QUOTE] Getting folks to invest in penis twice is going to be a hard sell. That said, ain't no way I would pay for a blueprint for this game.

[QUOTE=Roonsword;46265473]Thanks billy79, glad i'm not losing my mind over here. I've posted before... i'm ok with facepunch looking for more ways to make money from rust. I think they are absolutely entitled. This is just a sloppy awkward way to go about it. IMO they should just make expansion sets every so often and sell them. THIS SERVER FEATURES RUST PIRATES, PRESENTING THE NEW PIRATE BIOME. MUST HAVE RUST PIRATES IN ORDER TO PLAY. you can play on vanilla rust server if you want but if you wanna play on a server running the latest and greatest shit... buy the expansion set. When you look at those posts about "what types of monsters should rust have?" to me it makes perfect sense that rust should launch with several of these optional add-on content packs. There were a million posts in that other thread asking for "dinosaurs plz" There is clearly a market for it. Gary and co. could make 6 dinosaur NPCs monsters, 3 dinosaur themed costumes a few dinosaur bone weapon and sell a "dino invasion" pack for rust for 15 dollars. I guarantee people would buy it and servers catering to dinosaur rust would pop up all over.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that sounds like how Mount And Blade does it. Much better.

[QUOTE=tirpider;46265518]Getting folks to invest in penis twice is going to be a hard sell. That said, ain't no way I would pay for a blueprint for this game.[/QUOTE] Neither would I and neither should anybody else. "oh, you just bought rust? cool its a great game. Tell you what, before you play, you gotta let the game 'break in' a bit. oh no, nothing like that. Just log in and eat a shit ton of food. Then afk until you learn all the recipes. it usually takes 24-48 hours to get most of the good ones. you might have to come back and feed yourself every 4 hours so you don't starve but its not a big deal"

The devs are not trying to make money with this system (at least not expecting to make much), blueprint steam card system for rust will be free market between players so, if devs don't intervene, players will control the prices and the market so this model will be more like a pay to not farm (and not much). But the problem I am seeing here with this is: You can create a private server to farm blueprints for you or for selling. This will automatically destroy the blueprint system by itself, what sense would it make if blueprints are easy to get, easy to keep, just give the full knowledge to the players and fuck off with the knowledge issues (please dont, I like legacy's blueprints). Would blueprints, in game, would work the same as in legacy? Spammed from animals or remnants boxes? Do we got any info from Garry on this?

I find the entire sensationalism over this amusing. I trade CS:GO cards, I trade all kinds of cards from the games that support it. this is merely as if you were trading them in game, but with the opportunity to buy if you want to. With the sell rates, you will be able to sell one for .02 cents, then turn around and get the one you want. Don't worry, your precious pennies will probably never leave your pockets. If you are so poor you cannot spend .02 cents when you don't have a card to trade, maybe you should stop playing and use your computer to get some income? Silver lining: hopefully this will also weed out the recent rise of "battletards" and "trolls"- kids that have hit the servers, and allow for mature, intelligent players to have fun.

[QUOTE=y0himba;46265838]If you are so poor you cannot spend .02 cents when you don't have a card to trade, maybe you should stop playing and use your computer to get some income? [/QUOTE] I bet you're rude to waiters. The point is, this "pay not to grind" kinda thing is normally what free-to-play games like Champions Of Regnum do to get some cash out of people. You don't expect it from a full price game (or at least I don't).

Actually, I tip wait staff heavily. Those kids are working for a living, for money to spend. See, anything that can be traded or bought is also in game. So it is easy to play and advance without spending another dime. In my opinion, what folks are in an uproar about is actually having to expend effort and spend time playing before they can go about just killing because they feel it is fun. My God, they might actually need to acquire wood, metal or stone instead of just stealing it, and they may not be able to craft a gun really fast to shoot people. They may need to acquire a blueprint before being able grief a base by locking the person in, using a sleeping bag exploit, or trolling. Myself, I will most likely make a few cents since I actually enjoy playing the game and "Grinding" or "Farming", to build my base, find blueprints, and craft.

[QUOTE=Roonsword;46265473]Thanks billy79, glad i'm not losing my mind over here. I've posted before... i'm ok with facepunch looking for more ways to make money from rust.[/QUOTE] They don't need to make more money from Rust? Rust's already made them $30 million dollars, and by the way Rust was funded entirely out of the thick wallet made out of Garry's Mod sales. Rust's revenue hasn't needed to be spent on anything, they're not desperate for money. This is a way of making the blueprint economy more of a player-run phenomenon instead of a per-server drop system. It has its pitfalls, but we're basically talking about trading cards or BattleBlock Theatre heads. They sell for pennies. Fucking pennies. Blueprints won't automatically let you make the item, you'll need to go get the materials for it. And, again, remember, server owners will be able to disable the global inventory. If owning the Steam inventory item (blueprint) automatically gave you [B]the item[/B], I would agree that this system would be totally broken, but that's not what it is. [QUOTE=billy79;46265073]You mean people should keep thier mouth shut because a rather signficant and argubly game changing option may be incorporated into their current game and server? I mean, why would anyone want to take issue with something that could potentially impact a game and server they are currently playing? I think its reasonable for either side of the issue to be heard on this...as it can and probably will impact a great deal of them when implemented, irrelevant of the options server owners have.[/QUOTE] Half the people who can't keep their mouth shut are complaining about it before they've even read and understood garry's blog comments about the system they're bitching about. So, yes, those people aren't providing constructive feedback to a developer, it's knee-jerk screaming. There's a reasonable way to discuss this but I'm having trouble coming up with many examples from the "dislike" side in this thread. Servers don't have to use the global Steamworks inventory. Play on those if you don't like it. Being a game dev for a game in Early Access is hell. You get yelled at for not delivering new and innovative things and for giving people old, dumb rehashes of familiar things. Then you try and do something new and everyone screams and demands the old, familiar things. You can't win. No wonder Notch sold out.

Do we really need people rewriting "server owners will be able to disable the global inventory" every ten posts? I mean if someone posts here that he doesnt know that, he is just out of place, so why dont assume that every one that writes here knows that, and we ignore the ones who doesnt? We need to have a discussion here, devs too if possible, nothing wrong with it. But there is a lot of raging people, some people mistaken as ragers and some people combating them all with fanboyism. It is kind of disturbing seeing that in every popular thread.

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing one side of the other but rather the irrelevant basis of the criticism levied. [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;46266077] Servers don't have to use the global Steamworks inventory. Play on those if you don't like it.[/QUOTE] So what if I like the server and game I'm playing on? The beef is, this will change how I play the game because of x, y and z. That is a legitimate concern and argument for some people and they might be concerned this will happen on their server they've grown accustomed too. When the developers talk about changing or adding a dynamic to a game that is already in use, its reasonable to voice your objections or support. Your criticism has no relevance on this issue. I'm not saying the objections are right or wrong but your dismissal of their criticism because "they can just switch servers" ignores the central complaint and that is, it will change the way they currently play the game. I can understand why you think the change is not significant to you but that is no reason to call others objections "knee jerk" based on your assertion they can "just change servers". You are basically saying, its no big deal to me, so your opinion is "uneducated", "knee-jerk", etc, etc. There are aspects to the game people do not want to see changed because it could impact how they play it today in one way or another....they could switch servers, you are right but I'm not sure you appreciate how this could impact some people. Say you had group of people you play with, half of them don't like the change and half do...it fractures the group. While that may not matter to you, but it matters to the people in that group.... Again, their argument may not out weigh the betterment the change brings but dismissing it for the reasons you and the other person used, is not very helpful and is almost outright arrogant. [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;46266077] Being a game dev for a game in Early Access is hell. You get yelled at for not delivering new and innovative things and for giving people old, dumb rehashes of familiar things. Then you try and do something new and everyone screams and demands the old, familiar things. You can't win.[/QUOTE] This "whoa is me" is bullshit. There is nothing wrong with criticism, even if it is bullshit. If developers cant handle complaints, they in the wrong line of work, it goes with the territory.

Yep going to hate having to get that same P250 bullprint for the millionth time. Yep this system is going to be very unfair to everyone else when this goes live.

Terrible terrible idea. What a great survival game, we all spawn but naked with a rock but the other dude has the ability to craft a shotgun from the start because he has more pocket money. Or the guy who can afford to host a private server can just grind and sell. Just a commercial sell out unfortunately. I suppose just use the 'local' blueprints only servers. Like they will exist- which admins will skip the chance to cruise round invisibly stealing blueprints to sell?

Long Post... Everyone keeps comparing the blueprints to hats and trading cards when they are not comparable. Hats and cards don't give you an advantage against other players. Blueprints for weapons and armor do. If they implemented this system only for cosmetic items, 75% of the people complaining about it would probably praise Garry and team for this idea. Everyone loves hats, no one other than whales enjoy paying to get an advantage over other players. Prior to the devs editing devblog 30, it mentioned weapons and I'm pretty sure C4 (I could be wrong about the C4, my eyeballs were bleeding by the time I finished reading the post). Those are HUGE advantages in Rust. Defenders of this new system also continually put down people for not wanting to spend their pennies on the items. This system can only result in 1 of 2 things. 1. Either the blueprints are so common that they are traded as cheaply as steam cards. If this is the case, explain to me what the point of this system is? If the permanent persistent blueprints are so common that 50% of the population can get C4, kevlar, and bolt action equivalent blueprints within the first 48-72 hours, why even have blueprints in the first place? Just give everyone the blueprints when they boot up the game. Was it worth it to piss off a good chunk of your community by making them pay a few bucks to not be left behind during the first week? To fracture the community further and add just another thing that server owners need to fit in their server title to attract players? If that is not the case, then it leads me to the only other possible outcome. 2. If they aren't common rewards, then there is no way their scenario of buying anything worthwhile for $0.15 is even remotely grounded in reality. Cards and low end items from other games are 0.15 because everyone gets them and they serve no purpose other than dress-up. Have they seen the Dota marketplace? There are over 200 different items that sell for over $100 and another 200+ items for more than $50. Those things just make your barbie look a little different than other characters, could you imagine if that shit gave you bonus damage or some other advantage over other people? Prices would be insane. The privilege of having a god damn octopus courier that is on your screen maybe once per 20 minutes costs upward of $80. Now the high end weapons and armor might not be that crazy, but in order to avoid scenario #1, high end gear would have to be pretty damn rare. Looking at it logically, if you have 4 tiers of armor, then you would expect to get at least 8 T1, 4 T2, and 2 T3 pieces before you get a single T4 piece. If it takes 1 hour to earn a blueprint, you would be looking at 14 hours per piece of T4 gear. Because people like rare things, you would expect to pay a premium price above the rarity of the object. So figure an extra 50% just because the object is desirable. So we're talking $3.15 for a single T4 object, unless it's a weapon because there is always a premium for those as well. Want that kevlar set? It will only cost you around $13 if the Tier 1 pieces are selling for 0.15. Edit: On second thought, I would definitely pay $13 for that middle finger blueprint posted in the devblog discussion.

[QUOTE=billy79;46266312]Keep in mind, I'm not arguing one side of the other but rather the irrelevant basis of the criticism levied. So what if I like the server and game I'm playing on? The beef is, this will change how I play the game because of x, y and z. That is a legitimate concern and argument for some people and they might be concerned this will happen on their server they've grown accustomed too. When the developers talk about changing or adding a dynamic to a game that is already in use, its reasonable to voice your objections or support. Your criticism has no relevance on this issue. I'm not saying the objections are right or wrong but your dismissal of their criticism because "they can just switch servers" ignores the central complaint and that is, it will change the way they currently play the game. I can understand why you think the change is not significant to you but that is no reason to call others objections "knee jerk" based on your assertion they can "just change servers". You are basically saying, its no big deal to me, so your opinion is "uneducated", "knee-jerk", etc, etc. There are aspects to the game people do not want to see changed because it could impact how they play it today in one way or another....they could switch servers, you are right but I'm not sure you appreciate how this could impact some people. Say you had group of people you play with, half of them don't like the change and half do...it fractures the group. While that may not matter to you, but it matters to the people in that group.... Again, their argument may not out weigh the betterment the change brings but dismissing it for the reasons you and the other person used, is not very helpful and is almost outright arrogant. This "whoa is me" is bullshit. There is nothing wrong with criticism, even if it is bullshit. If developers cant handle complaints, they in the wrong line of work, it goes with the territory.[/QUOTE] I seriously doubt you would like a server that boasts of using a feature that you dislike, how does that question even make sense? If a group of friends is divided on a change to the game they have the ability to have debates on the issue, they have the ability to change their minds, and most importantly they have the ability to compromise. I don't think that's a valid reason to remove a game feature. The entire first page was full of complaints from people who clearly had not read the full devblog, which is who I believe elixwhitetail was referring to. I completely agree with him too, there are entirely too many people posting about game changes without even fully reading up on the information provided them. For the record, I don't think you're one of them, please stop defending the ignorant :)

I'm 50/50 with the Blueprint idea. I could sit here and think of multiple things they could tweak around and make it better, or worse- actually. If they don't want people going all pay-to-win, make the normal objects in-game, like Legacy. You have to find the blueprint, and research it of course, but add another aspect like CS, where you can buy skins and add them to your items, or stickers- etc. Instead of being able to have different items or the trading system, allow everyone to have unique skins on their bolt xD, or player made meshes on their clothing. Who knows.

[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;46266505]I seriously doubt you would like a server that boasts of using a feature that you dislike, how does that question even make sense? If a group of friends is divided on a change to the game they have the ability to have debates on the issue, they have the ability to change their minds, and most importantly they have the ability to compromise. I don't think that's a valid reason to remove a game feature. The entire first page was full of complaints from people who clearly had not read the full devblog, which is who I believe elixwhitetail was referring to. I completely agree with him too, there are entirely too many people posting about game changes without even fully reading up on the information provided them. For the record, I don't think you're one of them, please stop defending the ignorant :)[/QUOTE] I'm not so much defending the ignorant but rather attacking an illogical or invalid premise, which is kind of an obsessive compulsive thing with me... i.e. "your argument is bullshit because you can just switch servers...." To me, switching servers is no big deal but I can not and will not say the same about other people...as it diminishes what they feel is important to them which is critical when you are trying to appeal to a mass audience. On another note, and on a personal side of it, it is a big deal to me that I pay for a game and the developers ask me for more money for in game content....this is a deciding factor for me when I purchase a game and is the primary reason I do not buy EA products any more. What Gary proposed is what EA does and has been doing for a few years now. Not to mention advertising to me to buy content to a game I already have a licence for. I've already bought this game so, it's kind of a moot point but I can tell you, if this is implemented, I'm always going to wonder when, not if, they start restricting or limiting the "free" content to increase sales for their paid content (i.e. "blueprints") irrelevant of the server controls. I may be off base and the developers are sincere but almost every single new game developer has done things to greatly disappoint me once their games becomes a commercial success. This is why you get the knee jerk reactions and its not because of ignorance, its because its what some people expect from developers/producers of video games.

[QUOTE=billy79;46266633]I'm not so much defending the ignorant but rather attacking an illogical or invalid premise, which is kind of an obsessive compulsive thing with me... i.e. "your argument is bullshit because you can just switch servers...." To me, switching servers is no big deal but I can not and will not say the same about other people...as it diminishes what they feel is important to them which is critical when you are trying to appeal to a mass audience. On another note, and on a personal side of it, it is a big deal to me that I pay for a game and the developers ask me for more money for in game content....this is a deciding factor for me when I purchase a game and is the primary reason I do not buy EA products any more. What Gary proposed is what EA does and has been doing for a few years now. Not to mention advertising to me to buy content to a game I already have a licence for. I've already bought this game so, it's kind of a moot point but I can tell you, if this is implemented, I'm always going to wonder when, not if, they start restricting or limiting the "free" content to increase sales for their paid content (i.e. "blueprints") irrelevant of the server controls. I may be off base and the developers are sincere but almost every single new game developer has done things to greatly disappoint me once their games becomes a commercial success. This is why you get the knee jerk reactions and its not because of ignorance, its because its what some people expect from developers/producers of video games.[/QUOTE] Why would they restrict or limit free content? Game is still in alpha, and nothing has really been created yet to make the game a full fledged release awaiting dlc or expansion content. This is just an easier way to micro manage the blueprints you find. What's the issue? at the end of the day you still need in-game resources to even craft it, and once you craft it someone can take it away.

[QUOTE=TheQuagmire;46266753]This is just an easier way to micro manage the blueprints you find.[/QUOTE] Wow, are you fucking serious? How is adding steam store and letting nakeds buy all the blueprints when they are new players good? How the HELL does adding steam marketplace make blueprints "easier to manage" than just having them in the game? Please explain. I can barely believe what I'm seeing. I'm a Rust fanboy but this is some serious Stockholm syndrome going off here.

No Garry! Please don't ruin my favourite game in the world with this crap! Please... I'll pay you NOT to do it!

[QUOTE=TheQuagmire;46266753]Why would they restrict or limit free content? Game is still in alpha, and nothing has really been created yet to make the game a full fledged release awaiting dlc or expansion content. This is just an easier way to micro manage the blueprints you find. What's the issue? at the end of the day you still need in-game resources to even craft it, and once you craft it someone can take it away.[/QUOTE] Its supply and demand. This is the worse case scenario: You sell extremely useful blue print. You make the free blueprint extremely rare in the game. The demand for the blueprint is real and people will pay for it. Profit. Not to mention exploiters looking to capitalize on the secondary market by farming private servers, which will help meet demand but, as you can see, who ever controls the production of the blueprints, controls the market. You seem to be naive to the fact that greed in business is expected. I have no problems the developers doing this, however, I will cease to play and will be put off on the fact I bought there excellent concept early only for it to be sold out to this extent (if worse case scenario occurs). I hope the developers have the foresight to not do the above,if they implement this idea because I think that will pretty much make rust have no lasting appeal to its current audience not to mention having the stigma associated with content purchases...but I never underestimate greed. I'm not saying they will or want to do this....I really think their intentions are pure but, again, greed often times gets the best of people. Again, I'm not saying this will happen but it opens up the door for that possibility and eventually they will have to turn a profit, which is understandable. EDIT: His characterizations of CCG's was a horrible analogy if he wanted to stay away from pay to win....Magic the Gathering the preeminent CCG in the world, does this very thing....with a little different spin. They have rarity scale for their cards...common, uncommon, rare and mythic rare. Guess what the best and most usable cards are? Mythic's and rares....The odds of you pulling a Mythic is about 1 in 60 packs. This makes the mythic have an increased value on the secondary market.

Its a bit shit really.

[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;46266505]I seriously doubt you would like a server that boasts of using a feature that you dislike, how does that question even make sense? If a group of friends is divided on a change to the game they have the ability to have debates on the issue, they have the ability to change their minds, and most importantly they have the ability to compromise. I don't think that's a valid reason to remove a game feature. The entire first page was full of complaints from people who clearly had not read the full devblog, which is who I believe elixwhitetail was referring to. I completely agree with him too, there are entirely too many people posting about game changes without even fully reading up on the information provided them. For the record, I don't think you're one of them, please stop defending the ignorant :)[/QUOTE] umm I did. Your just cherry picking comments and dumbing down every post you disagree with versus well, disagreeing.

Wanna bet? This shitty idea will have same fate as "locked backpacks" - people will farm them only on pve\empty servers to sell, but nobody will play with this shit, except deatmatch servers. Why? Because it's taking all the trading from the game, removes huge half of the fun. On legacy if you need recipe - you can try to find it yourself (it's not really hard), steal it from other people, or risk by trading with other people, who can cheat and kill you - so you must make trades like real gangsters, choose place to trade, check for ambushes, find someone who will cover you if things will go bad... And what will happen in server with recipe trading? People will come there with full recipie stack, that they farmed somewhere else or just bought on the market. Huge part of the game will go to waste, and i doubt that many people would like to play like that. There is a lot of much better choises for stuff that can be tradable in steam, but people like Harry, who making dumb ideas like "locked backpacks, keys, tradable recipies" for only reason, that named "i want it", without even thinking "what's good from that in gameplay, and what's bad?" will never listen to the others, because they know better, or at least they think so.

You guys keep fighting over wether this is a toggleable feature or not but it doesn't matter. Official servers will be using it. What if I don't want that and still want to play on official? Another issue: you guys are assuming it won't be easier to get blueprints in custom servers, how so? Would they be dropped regarding how much time you played the game? Then it would make no sense at all, I want to have to fight my way to a c4 blueprint, not just let my computer on for a whole week. In legacy, it's way easier to get blueprints from small populated servers, it' true. But it's easy for everyone and you don't get to import your blueprints to another server. It really made sense. And of course, there is absolutely no way this all selling/buying thing isn't getting out of hand within a month. This gonna bring a parallel economy and all. It can't be good for anyone except Facepunch. If anyone from Facepunch reads this, I really wish to know what your pros for this system are. Like a small list. It might help us understand. Also guys, vote: [url]http://support.facepunchstudios.com/feedback/view/1382-don-t-implement-blueprint-buying-selling-trading-on-steaam[/url]

[QUOTE=withnail;46266925]Wow, are you fucking serious? How is adding steam store and letting nakeds buy all the blueprints when they are new players good? How the HELL does adding steam marketplace make blueprints "easier to manage" than just having them in the game? Please explain. I can barely believe what I'm seeing. I'm a Rust fanboy but this is some serious Stockholm syndrome going off here.[/QUOTE] Naked's/New players wouldn't know what to do with the blueprints in the first place. No one buy's a game, and than spends 2 hours on the marketplace buying all the items. It's just not feasible logic. Those new players would have no clue on how to even craft most of the bp's they bought. Please explain how this is an issue? Than you have this hilarious issue about management of the blueprints. For new players it's ease of access when they acquire the blueprints to use on more than just one server if they choose to leave. Let's not forget all the badmin's who kick/ban, and there goes all your progress. You would have to choose a new server, and slowly re-acquire all the bp's all over again. Man wouldn't it be great if the BP's were tied to your steamID? Honestly it feels like most of you are just cheap people who can't afford paying 3 cents for a bp that they "might" use.

[QUOTE=TheQuagmire;46267370]Man wouldn't it be great if the BP's were tied to your steamID? [/QUOTE] No. [QUOTE=TheQuagmire;46267370] Honestly it feels like most of you are just cheap people who can't afford paying 3 cents for a bp that they "might" use.[/QUOTE] Using shaming tactics and saying "lol, u cannot afford 3p u live in a bin!!!1" doesn't make this any less shitty.

This system makes sense to me if it would be unique per server. It's clear that's it will be universal which I think is horrible for two reasons: - It's extremely noob unfriendly, when a server starts everyone should be given the same chances in my opinion, this fits the current state of the game better because when you join a new server you join a new world, a new community and having certain blueprints from farming them on other server seems out of place and frankly quite unfair. - As the OP of the thread pointed out, replayability. What I enjoyed in Rust is that you, at any point, could join a different server and start fresh. It would be a challenge to get that precious rare C4 and research it, it would be much less fun if I would have that blueprint in every damn server I'd join because I would just invite some friends, farm for a few hours and raid the entire server, that's bad for the game.

It's the same thing as the lockpick thing all over again.

[QUOTE=withnail;46267412]No. Using shaming tactics and saying "lol, u cannot afford 3p u live in a bin!!!1" doesn't make this any less shitty.[/QUOTE] Shaming tactics? it's 3 cents.. you sell one card that's valued 25 cents.. and your rich.. complaining over 3 cents is just... frankly sad.