Will crosshair cheaters be banned? - Rust

there is a VERY simple solution to this, make firing at hip LESS accurate. Similar to Battlefield. If you did this the only weapon in the game the "crosshair" will benefit is a crossbow...and if you cant beat someone with one of those you need to play some more.

[QUOTE=J!NX;43652975]except doing that in monopoly would be exactly the same thing as inventory glitching or aimbotting, so that's a completely silly example and doesn't even make any sense at all. It's not even nearly as strong a cheat as that. I hardly see how a crosshair will "Ruin the fun" in constrast to monopoly and money, as with monopoly and money you are essentially autowinning the game. only an aimbot could 'autowin'. literally anyone can crosshair "Hack", even if by painting it on their screen and everyone can use teamspeak. Teamspeak is fair game.[/QUOTE] I'm saying that games have rules, once you've altered the rules you're no longer playing the same game as everyone else. So what is the point? Claiming that just because everyone can cheat, everyone should, defeats the point of having rules in the first place and thus the game. That there is no crosshair on a bow or that you can hear people over VOIP are design decisions with intentions behind them, circumventing them to gain an advantage over other people who are playing with the original framework of the game is anything but fair play.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654460]I'm saying that games have rules, once you've altered the rules you're no longer playing the same game as everyone else. So what is the point? Claiming that just because everyone can cheat, everyone should, defeats the point of having rules in the first place and thus the game.[/QUOTE] putting tape on your screen is hardly bending the rules. anyone can do that, even honest to god anti-aimbot extremists. [QUOTE=Ebrim;43654460] That there is no crosshair on a bow or that you can hear people over VOIP are design decisions with intentions behind them, circumventing them to gain an advantage over other people who are playing with the original framework of the game is anything but fair play.[/QUOTE] So teamspeak is cheating now.

[QUOTE=J!NX;43654476]putting tape on your screen is hardly bending the rules. anyone can do that, even honest to god anti-aimbot extremists.[/QUOTE] I edited my last post, see above, you are moving contrary to game design decisions to gain an artificial advantage. Can does not equal should.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654484]I edited my last post, see above, you are moving contrary to game design decisions to gain an artificial advantage.[/QUOTE] and I also intended to gain an unfair advantage by paying 1300$ on a gaming rig and blowing money on superior control hardware. Also, I totally will turn grass off even though it runs really well. Am I cheating?

[QUOTE=J!NX;43654501]and I also intended to gain an unfair advantage by paying 1300$ on a gaming rig and blowing money on superior control hardware. Am I cheating?[/QUOTE] I don't think Facepunch designed Rust so that only older machines could play it, it's entirely anticipated and accepted that people will use different hardware. That's quite a bit different than intentionally deciding not to have a crosshair for the bow.

You know, you get just draw a dot in the middle of your screen, or place a circle sticker

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654519]I don't think Facepunch designed Rust so that only older machines could play it, it's entirely anticipated and accepted that people will use different hardware. That's quite a bit different than intentionally deciding not to have a crosshair for the bow.[/QUOTE] a crosshair isn't going to make you suddenly magically have a huge advantage over everyone dude. Infact, despite the obvious intent of increasing accuracy it will give a very limited number of kills. A proper gaming rig however, will, assuming everyone is running the game poorly. I've taped my screen in CSS before, I was still shit on.

[QUOTE=J!NX;43654527]a crosshair isn't going to make you suddenly magically have a huge advantage over everyone dude. A proper gaming rig however, will, assuming everyone is running the game poorly.[/QUOTE] That may or may not be true, what is important is that one of these is perfectly in line with game design elements and the other is contrary to them.

Garry has said that nothing will be done about crosshairs; if users can't have a crosshair overlay running, they'll just wrap dental floss around their screen. You can't check every monitor for dental floss....

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654533]That may or may not be true, what is important is that one of these is perfectly in line with game design elements and the other is contrary to them.[/QUOTE] if crosshairs are such an issue then the game should have been released on a console where programs would not have existed. they aren't though, it's an insanely trivial issue that effects no one, there are FAR bigger issues right now, like real cheaters.

[QUOTE=J!NX;43654546]if crosshairs are such an issue then the game should have been released on a console where programs would not have existed.[/QUOTE] I don't think they are "such" an issue, nor is it worthwhile in any way to try and officially punish their use. That said the people using them are playing a different game and should be aware that they are undermining not only the intended experience of the game for themselves but that of others as well.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654577]I don't think they are "such" an issue, nor is it worthwhile in any way to try and officially punish their use. That said the people using them are playing a different game and should be aware that they are undermining not only the intended experience of the game for themselves but that of others as well.[/QUOTE] really because if it was ruining their experience so much they wouldn't be doing it now would they? Obviously they enjoy it because it enhances the experience. and I seriously doubt anyone sane would actually care about a little dental floss. of all the things OP could have an issue with he picks the most random and meaningless one and calls it a "Cheat"

Unless they make the camera dynamic and give weapons oscillation through movement, anybody can do this. How can something anybody willing to spend either five minutes to code a centering dot five minutes putting a transparent tape in the center of their screens be considered cheating? It is akin to turn your volume really loud or changing the volume balance to detect certain things.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654577]I don't think they are "such" an issue, nor is it worthwhile in any way to try and officially punish their use. That said the people using them are playing a different game and should be aware that they are undermining not only the intended experience of the game for themselves but that of others as well.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry for butting in, but that's just ridiculous, they are not playing a diferent game nor are they undermining the experience, coding a dot on the screen/painting one on your monitor is pretty much adding training wheels to the experience of getting used to the weapons, it doesn't undermine anything, it's just an aid.

[QUOTE=Aircraft;43654631]Unless they make the camera dynamic and give weapons oscillation through movement, anybody can do this. How can something anybody willing to spend either five minutes to code a centering dot five minutes putting a transparent tape in the center of their screens be considered cheating? It is akin to turn your volume really loud or changing the volume balance to detect certain things.[/QUOTE] It being easy in no way changes the fact that it's still cheating. I mean we could all beat up little old ladies and it would be easy but it's still assault, it's assault if one person does it, it's assault if everyone does it. Turning up your volume super loud doesn't make you able to hear things that are otherwise inaudible. It's not like you can hear the sound of someone sitting still on a hill just because you turned up your volume really loud. You're acting within the design intentions of the game, not cheating. However you have no crosshair with a bow unless you physically alter your monitor with dental floss or something or use some sort of software and you do these to counteract design intentions. These are two very different activities. The overall point I'm making is that games have rules, when you are not acting according to the rules you're not even playing the game. The entire activity becomes pointless at best and harmful to others at worst. [editline]24th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Rockeiro123;43654701]I'm sorry for butting in, but that's just ridiculous, they are not playing a diferent game nor are they undermining the experience, coding a dot on the screen/painting one on your monitor is pretty much adding training wheels to the experience of getting used to the weapons, it doesn't undermine anything, it's just an aid.[/QUOTE] Please do. :D If you were meant to be able to have that training wheel experience it would be available to you as a game element. Who knows, maybe in the future that very thing will exist and then it'll be perfectly acceptable.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654705]It being easy in no way changes the fact that it's still cheating. I mean we could all beat up little old ladies and it would be easy but it's still assault, it's assault if one person does it, it's assault if everyone does it. Turning up your volume super loud doesn't make you able to hear things that are otherwise inaudible. It's not like you can hear the sound of someone sitting still on a hill just because you turned up your volume really loud. You're acting within the design intentions of the game, not cheating. However you have no crosshair with a bow unless you physically alter your monitor with dental floss or something or use some sort of software and you do these to counteract design intentions. These are two very different activities. The overall point I'm making is that games have rules, when you are not acting according to the rules you're not even playing the game. The entire activity becomes pointless at best and harmful to others at worst. [editline]24th January 2014[/editline] Please do. :D If you were meant to be able to have that training wheel experience it would be available to you as a game element. Who knows, maybe in the future that very thing will exist and then it'll be perfectly acceptable.[/QUOTE] Really because using a crosshair VS using an aimbot is like a jokish shoulder jab vs beating the living death out of an old lady

A crosshair does nothing in this game... Haven't you seen that the gun moves a little and the camera doesn't? This means you will put a crosshair and it will probably never hit that spot... ps: But doesn't VAC take Screenshots of people in-game? If so they will probably pick the ones made with software and may think it's a hack, but I have no clue if there's that feature on this game (hope they do it later because of the ESP cheaters) [B]Keep Cool[/B]

[QUOTE=J!NX;43654752]Really because using a crosshair VS using an aimbot is like a jokish shoulder jab vs beating the living death out of an old lady[/QUOTE] I don't disagree that the magnitude is different but they are qualitatively still both cheating.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654759]I don't disagree that the magnitude is different but they are qualitatively still both cheating.[/QUOTE] ahh yes so that makes a jokish shoulder jab assault?

Why are you comparing tape on your screen to beating up old women? In much the same vein that turning your audio very loud for sounds that do not show up in soundscape can also apply to having a monitor too small to properly view your target. You can invoke how many changes you want to a game's settings or your own hardware to have some kind of advantage , but in no way does putting tape on your screen or making an application like so should be considered an offense to lose all right to playing the game. I am sure the developers sympathize with your complaint, but look at it from their perspective. How on earth do you enforce that?

[QUOTE=Aircraft;43654765]Why are you comparing tape on your screen to beating up old women? In much the same vein that turning your audio very loud for sounds that do not show up in soundscape can also apply to having a monitor too small to properly view your target. You can invoke how many changes you want to a game's settings or your own hardware to have some kind of advantage , but in no way does putting tape on your screen or making an application like so should be considered an offense to lose all right to playing the game. I am sure the developers sympathize with your complaint, but look at it from their perspective. How on earth do you enforce that?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ebrim;43654577]I don't think they are "such" an issue,[B] nor is it worthwhile in any way to try and officially punish their use.[/B] That said the people using them are playing a different game and should be aware that they are undermining not only the intended experience of the game for themselves but that of others as well.[/QUOTE] Ehh, it's not like anyone here truly agree's on punishment to be fair

[QUOTE=Aircraft;43654765]Why are you comparing tape on your screen to beating up old women? In much the same vein that turning your audio very loud for sounds that do not show up in soundscape can also apply to having a monitor too small to properly view your target. You can invoke how many changes you want to a game's settings or your own hardware to have some kind of advantage , but in no way does putting tape on your screen or making an application like so should be considered an offense to lose all right to playing the game. I am sure the developers sympathize with your complaint, but look at it from their perspective. How on earth do you enforce that?[/QUOTE] The comparison is to illustrate that a violation being easy to commit in no way removes from it the quality of being a violation. I am not advocating that people who "crosshair cheat" lose a right to the game, if you see my first post in this thread I just say they should be publicly shamed. As I say above I don't think it's cheating on the same magnitude as aimbotting but it is still cheating and should be discouraged.

after 20m of bow use, I can accurately hit things from a longer range no problem... I do keep thinking of using some tape to make a xhair though, as to be competitive, you need to have every advantage you can (without hacks because that just makes the game dumb). Only prob I have with shooting the bow is, after I get guns and drop the bow, it takes that 20m of pratice to get back to using the bow accurately. would a crosshair help? sure, it would reduce that practice time a bit (still have to account for drop... unless you put several marks on your 'crosshair') do I care if other people are doing this and I am not? not really, it does not give that much of an advantage unless your really bad at bows to begin with. its just not worth the effort of trying to stop, unless you want to have every player submit a picture of their screen with date and time stamp before loggin every time... in the long and short run, adding a crosshair to the game does not do anything, and in the long run, it does not change anything either. this thread is just silly and sounds like the OP can't aim IMHO.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654816]The comparison is to illustrate that a violation being easy to commit in no way removes from it the quality of being a violation. I am not advocating that people who "crosshair cheat" lose a right to the game, if you see my first post in this thread I just say they should be publicly shamed. As I say above I don't think it's cheating on the same magnitude as aimbotting but it is still cheating and should be discouraged.[/QUOTE] Crosshair's already pretty much useless since they added the lazy aim cone, all crosshairs do are help you aim with a bow and get a general idea of where you're aiming. People who use crosshairs didn't kill your family, quit getting mad.

[QUOTE=SolLeks;43654839]after 20m of bow use, I can accurately hit things from a longer range no problem... I do keep thinking of using some tape to make a xhair though, as to be competitive, you need to have every advantage you can (without hacks because that just makes the game dumb). Only prob I have with shooting the bow is, after I get guns and drop the bow, it takes that 20m of pratice to get back to using the bow accurately. would a crosshair help? sure, it would reduce that practice time a bit (still have to account for drop... unless you put several marks on your 'crosshair') do I care if other people are doing this and I am not? not really, it does not give that much of an advantage unless your really bad at bows to begin with. its just not worth the effort of trying to stop, unless you want to have every player submit a picture of their screen with date and time stamp before loggin every time...[/QUOTE] I totally agree there's no practical way to try and prevent this that would be worthwhile but I think it's worth making it a social taboo. Fair play should be encouraged at every turn. [QUOTE=Protocol7;43654852]Crosshair's already pretty much useless since they added the lazy aim cone, all crosshairs do are help you aim with a bow and get a general idea of where you're aiming. People who use crosshairs didn't kill your family, quit getting mad.[/QUOTE] I'm not mad, I'm a little sad that not everyone shares my zealotry for having a level playing field, but what can you do? :D

This is a troll. The OP has complained about using VOIP programs such as TS/Vent/Mumble as it isn't intended. The OP has complained about crosshairs, because they aren't intended. The problem with this logic is that it ignores the premise of online gaming, social interaction through an avenue that suspends reality and provides the ability to experience something new with others. That means that any game, not just RUST, is nothing more than a vehicle for social interaction with loose guide-rails to direct that interaction in a particular common bearing. A game like Rust, being a sandbox game, actually has FEWER rules/restrictions than most games. Garry and his team have never said anything about a desire to limit the social interaction of players, as that typically would spell the doom of any online game. Instead, they focus on what direction the social interaction will go. Changing things such as doors, defense, environment, ect, actually could have a massive affect on the TYPE of game this is. They know that and that is why they will probably make small adjustments at a time in order to evaluate how those things affect the environment of the game. They are going to continue to work on balance, weapons, ect. What the OP is taking issue with though about "aim" tools doesn't really affect the game much. People in BF4 have crosshairs on all their guns and still suck at playing them and end up with 4-20 K/D ratios. The best players in those games can play on hardcore servers and without any crosshair still dominate. Why? because in the end, it comes down to skill and a player with crosshairs won't be all that effective. So, complain about it all you want, but in the end, you will find little sympathy for your cause. Good players will continue to be good, and bad players will continue to be bad. Now, Aimbots and hacks are a different story and should be addressed. Whenever you change or misuse the code or whatever in order to gain an advantage, that is gamebreaking and dangerous. *EDIT* Apologies to the OP, only Ebrim has mentioned VOIP.

I heard gary was making house visits .....so yes they wil be banned

[QUOTE=Valorx;43654919]This is a troll.[/quote] That's not nice. :( [quote]The OP has complained about using VOIP programs such as TS/Vent/Mumble as it isn't intended. The OP has complained about crosshairs, because they aren't intended. The problem with this logic is that it ignores the premise of online gaming, social interaction through an avenue that suspends reality and provides the ability to experience something new with others. That means that any game, not just RUST, is nothing more than a vehicle for social interaction with loose guide-rails to direct that interaction in a particular common bearing. [/QUOTE] You can't socially interact with people via the in-game voice system? Why do you think the in-game voice system has it so you can hear people near you? Maybe it was an accident or they just wanted to punish people who didn't use teamspeak, right? Must be.

[QUOTE=Ebrim;43654981]That's not nice. :( You can't socially interact with people via the in-game voice system? Why do you think the in-game voice system has it so you can hear people near you? Maybe it was an accident or they just wanted to punish people who didn't use teamspeak, right? Must be.[/QUOTE] You can't quote half of my thought process there.... I followed that up with.... [QUOTE] Garry and his team have never said anything about a desire to limit the social interaction of players, as that typically would spell the doom of any online game. Instead, they focus on what direction the social interaction will go. [/QUOTE] That would LIMIT social interaction, which NO dev team for an online game EVER tries to do.