[QUOTE=bad.;50527331]Why do you change a subject and start talking about XP system in general? When you clearly talked about players will benefit from keeping bps even after raid or death? That's the same as it is right now.[/QUOTE]
And the thing that's not the same right now is that you know when you get the bps you don't have. You know you won't get duplicate bps. You know that sticking around will actually pay off.
Hi,
Thank you for all replies ! :)
The subject change to : How can we help players to stay more longer on a Server even if they were raided !?
Yes, my idea is not good but it's like brainstorming, with a lot of bad solution, someone think about a good solution and the answer apperas :)
The XP system will help players with the spirit of XP inherits since the farmer to the user but... The problem is always the same, casual were raided and restart with nothing and other players are full of loot...
I don't know how we can help casual or little group to have a better experience of Rust but I think it is very important for the future of rust to try to search for solutions and try to keep this big part of players that can help Rust to survive !
If casual players can't play, they possibly leave the game and go to another and we know that nolife gamers try a lot of games and can change quickly if the population decrease to fast...
[QUOTE=Urizen;50531235]Hi,
Thank you for all replies ! :)
The subject change to : How can we help players to stay more longer on a Server even if they were raided !?
Yes, my idea is not good but it's like brainstorming, with a lot of bad solution, someone think about a good solution and the answer apperas :)
The XP system will help players with the spirit of XP inherits since the farmer to the user but... The problem is always the same, casual were raided and restart with nothing and other players are full of loot...
I don't know how we can help casual or little group to have a better experience of Rust but I think it is very important for the future of rust to try to search for solutions and try to keep this big part of players that can help Rust to survive !
If casual players can't play, they possibly leave the game and go to another and we know that nolife gamers try a lot of games and can change quickly if the population decrease to fast...[/QUOTE]
There's not really a lot that can be done that doesn't already exist. The people that quit after being raided don't like to lose. But at it's core, Rust pits players against each other, and that means someone is always going to lose. What they [the players that quit] need to do is either find a server that better provides the experience they are looking for (no decay, no offline raiding, pve, low pop, etc) or start learning to adapt and overcome instead of giving up and quiting.
I suggest playing on a modded server if losing is a big problem for some, I understand the frustration and not having the time to play, so I suggest moving to a modded server with 10x gather.
[QUOTE=crazzyman228;50531825]I suggest playing on a modded server if losing is a big problem for some, I understand the frustration and not having the time to play, so I suggest moving to a modded server with 10x gather.[/QUOTE]
A modded server is a solution, it multiply the resources you car farm but others players have the same mod so the capacity to craft x10 c4 or ammos... ;-)
I try to find a solution for the gameplay for Rust for all servers.
I'm sure that Rust will have some other modifications of gampelay in the future, I try to help and ask for good questions. Before, radiation, zombies and in a few weeks/days XP are some gampelay modifications that change a lot RUST.
Why the gameplay must stay like this ?! :)
[QUOTE=Urizen;50532207]A modded server is a solution, it multiply the resources you car farm but others players have the same mod so the capacity to craft x10 c4 or ammos... ;-)
I try to find a solution for the gameplay for Rust for all servers.
I'm sure that Rust will have some other modifications of gampelay in the future, I try to help and ask for good questions. Before, radiation, zombies and in a few weeks/days XP are some gampelay modifications that change a lot RUST.
Why the gameplay must stay like this ?! :)[/QUOTE]
The only solution that works for all servers and all players already exists: variety. The reason there are thousands of modded servers, and thousands of varying opinions on whether servers are good or not is because everyone has different playstyles. There are enough servers out there that everyone has a pretty good chance to find a server that comes close to what they want. And if there isn't, they can start up their own server and choose which of the many oxide mods they want to use.
I think one incentive to stay on a server would be to make it easier for newspawns to raid abandoned bases. I honestly have no idea how to implement this however. Right now once the pop has went down there usually still is a bunch of unraided bases. There is little to none recycling action going on in Rust right now as the doors are a big impediment to taking a base over for someone who just spawned in.
What if the cupboard had a cylindrical zone of protection, we implement ladders back to being built in building blocked zones and maybe twig structures with a faster-than-normal decay and we make it that a cupboard has a way to destroy all doors in it's area in 10 mins. To be honest I don't really like my own idea.
I know that Garry has/had the intentions to make Rust a very organic game in which the game is recycling itself and no wipes are necessary but it turned out to be not the case at all since legacy.
Perhaps raiding is too easy? Perhaps the vast difference in between a naked and someone fully geared is too big?
One way to retain players (I don't really like it but..) would be to tie the BP or XP system to a specific server so that if you wanted to change servers better kiss your progress goodbye. It would then become better just to start over far from the guys who are dominating some parts of the map.
Edit:
One way to incentivize staying on a server would be to make decaying bases able to be picked for stones, chopped for wood; that would make the players raid inactive/abandoned bases and be able to rebuild. It would also mean that there would be more recycling of the resources going on thus meaning that there would actually be MORE resources available on servers that are not freshly wiped. Maybe make servers "24h decay", "48h decay", "week decay", meaning that bases are becoming weak and salvageable say a week after someone has used it.
This is already fixed by way of stashes. Keep your most valuable loot (C4, rockets, etc) in multiple stashes. Doesn't even need to be inside your compound, because nobody is going to search every square inch of the map for stashes. Consolidate your other items (sulfur + charcoal, etc) by crafting as quickly as possible to optimize storage.
You'll still get raided, but you'll be able to keep a hefty amount of what's important. At a bare minimum, stash an emergency kit consisting of 10 stone walls, tool cupboards, 10 C4, some weapons, ammo, and medkits.
I appreciate anyone who proposes new ideas and tries to improve the gameplay of Rust, Uri.
Although dumbed down, the issue raised by the OP is "I killed/raided all my playmates, they left, now I have no one to play with." Some repliers seem to think the OP wants a work around for this and not a patch idea to fix it. I don't think adding a mechanic that in most other games is considered a game breaking bug is the fix for the problem, but to those that say there is no fix, it's just the way rust works, I think we just need to think harder to find the solution.
I encourage you to find hope with the upcoming XP system; with it I think we can find progress towards balance between large groups/no-lifes and small groups/casuals. I haven't played on the xp system myself but from what I hear starting up on a new server is a slower and gradual process, and it makes sense. When a player/group gets raided and feels defeated joining a new server and starting at Lvl 0(or 1, not sure where you start) will be unfavored compared to moving to a different spot on the server and keeping your level.
I think the next wipe won't bring enough change to the gameplay of Rust itself though and have been brainstorming ways to help. What we need to do is incentivize player to player interactions. People should have a reason to not raid everyone near them other than not wanting to be on a ghost town server. Not KOS-ing turns into trading which turns into positive relationships. The solo/casual players will find the game more enjoyable if they aren't routinely getting raided by the big guys. Also finding a way to inhibit larger groups will be important. Otherwise a group can work around not relying on others by mass-recruiting.
I think a deep-lying issue with getting people to interact and be friendly is the untrustworthiness of nakeds. Currently if someone is within earshot of you and you don't have cover the only proper response is to either kill them or run, which prompts them to kill you. So step one IMO is finding a way for 2 people of 2 different groups to be within 10-20 feet of each other without the prospect of dying in the next 1.5 seconds. Once we can get people in range to properly communicate with each other we can find ways to offer alternatives to killing that person with the hopes of getting their loot(that will always be an enticing short term option).
I think it's time a player's hotbar becomes visible on their character model. if you see a naked walking towards you with a waterpipe on their back you know not to let them get to close to you until you make them put it away. If both players remove weapons from their hotbar they may consider talking instead of KOS.
The xp system seems like it will encourage trades/agreements but I don't think it will be enough. One thing that could be implemented is more regional resource spawns. If players have to trek from their wood rich forest base across a wasteland to get to the rock rich area it will be much more time consuming and dangerous. Players will have to consider trading for resources and it makes base location much more important.
To address the tendency of clans to recruit as many players as possible I think it would be good to punish how much xp they earn. If we made it so people with more names authorized on their cupboard earned less xp they would A) consider not being in too big of a group, and B) consider giving tools to outsiders so they earn more xp. Meaning the bigger the group, the more friendly they'd have to be to progress.
[QUOTE=vachon644;50532312]I think one incentive to stay on a server would be to make it easier for newspawns to raid abandoned bases. I honestly have no idea how to implement this however. Right now once the pop has went down there usually still is a bunch of unraided bases. There is little to none recycling action going on in Rust right now as the doors are a big impediment to taking a base over for someone who just spawned in.
What if the cupboard had a cylindrical zone of protection, we implement ladders back to being built in building blocked zones and maybe twig structures with a faster-than-normal decay and we make it that a cupboard has a way to destroy all doors in it's area in 10 mins. To be honest I don't really like my own idea.
I know that Garry has/had the intentions to make Rust a very organic game in which the game is recycling itself and no wipes are necessary but it turned out to be not the case at all since legacy.
Perhaps raiding is too easy? Perhaps the vast difference in between a naked and someone fully geared is too big?
One way to retain players (I don't really like it but..) would be to tie the BP or XP system to a specific server so that if you wanted to change servers better kiss your progress goodbye. It would then become better just to start over far from the guys who are dominating some parts of the map.
Edit:
One way to incentivize staying on a server would be to make decaying bases able to be picked for stones, chopped for wood; that would make the players raid inactive/abandoned bases and be able to rebuild. It would also mean that there would be more recycling of the resources going on thus meaning that there would actually be MORE resources available on servers that are not freshly wiped. Maybe make servers "24h decay", "48h decay", "week decay", meaning that bases are becoming weak and salvageable say a week after someone has used it.[/QUOTE]
Raiding abandoned bases encourages players to join a new server when raided just as much as staying on the same server but i definitely like this idea. Stealing someones base/an abandoned base is a really fun way to jumpstart your progress on a server. I also really like your idea about harvesting abandoned bases. If players had the choice of taking over a base or harvesting it because it was designed poorly servers would tend toward better built bases as well. Maybe add a second stat on buildings for decay so a decaying building doesn't loose health its 2nd stat, decay, over time. Right now a stone building starts to decay after 18 hours of inactivity and completely decays 48 hours later. What if a building that's 10% decayed is 10% easier to pick through and gives 5% of the resources back and a building that's 100% decayed doesn't disappear immediately, but is as easy to pick through as a rock, and gives 50% of the resources back. Honestly I don't know how this would work in practice but its an cool idea, I'm interested in others' thoughts on it.
Just a few more comments: cupboard protection zones are cylindrical(i'm pretty sure). being able to destroy all doors in the cupboard radius seems op from a raiding standpoint but maybe make it a feature once a building is fully decayed.
[B]TL ; DR:[/B]
-KOS gets boring after a while
Ideas:
-player's hotbar visible on character model
-resource clusters spread out into regions
-earning xp harder in bigger groups
[QUOTE=Tader Tot;50535033]I appreciate anyone who proposes new ideas and tries to improve the gameplay of Rust, Uri.
Although dumbed down, the issue raised by the OP is "I killed/raided all my playmates, they left, now I have no one to play with." Some repliers seem to think the OP wants a work around for this and not a patch idea to fix it. I don't think adding a mechanic that in most other games is considered a game breaking bug is the fix for the problem, but to those that say there is no fix, it's just the way rust works, I think we just need to think harder to find the solution.
I encourage you to find hope with the upcoming XP system; with it I think we can find progress towards balance between large groups/no-lifes and small groups/casuals. I haven't played on the xp system myself but from what I hear starting up on a new server is a slower and gradual process, and it makes sense. When a player/group gets raided and feels defeated joining a new server and starting at Lvl 0(or 1, not sure where you start) will be unfavored compared to moving to a different spot on the server and keeping your level.
I think the next wipe won't bring enough change to the gameplay of Rust itself though and have been brainstorming ways to help. What we need to do is incentivize player to player interactions. People should have a reason to not raid everyone near them other than not wanting to be on a ghost town server. Not KOS-ing turns into trading which turns into positive relationships. The solo/casual players will find the game more enjoyable if they aren't routinely getting raided by the big guys. Also finding a way to inhibit larger groups will be important. Otherwise a group can work around not relying on others by mass-recruiting.
I think a deep-lying issue with getting people to interact and be friendly is the untrustworthiness of nakeds. Currently if someone is within earshot of you and you don't have cover the only proper response is to either kill them or run, which prompts them to kill you. So step one IMO is finding a way for 2 people of 2 different groups to be within 10-20 feet of each other without the prospect of dying in the next 1.5 seconds. Once we can get people in range to properly communicate with each other we can find ways to offer alternatives to killing that person with the hopes of getting their loot(that will always be an enticing short term option).
I think it's time a player's hotbar becomes visible on their character model. if you see a naked walking towards you with a waterpipe on their back you know not to let them get to close to you until you make them put it away. If both players remove weapons from their hotbar they may consider talking instead of KOS.
The xp system seems like it will encourage trades/agreements but I don't think it will be enough. One thing that could be implemented is more regional resource spawns. If players have to trek from their wood rich forest base across a wasteland to get to the rock rich area it will be much more time consuming and dangerous. Players will have to consider trading for resources and it makes base location much more important.
To address the tendency of clans to recruit as many players as possible I think it would be good to punish how much xp they earn. If we made it so people with more names authorized on their cupboard earned less xp they would A) consider not being in too big of a group, and B) consider giving tools to outsiders so they earn more xp. Meaning the bigger the group, the more friendly they'd have to be to progress.
Raiding abandoned bases encourages players to join a new server when raided just as much as staying on the same server but i definitely like this idea. Stealing someones base/an abandoned base is a really fun way to jumpstart your progress on a server. I also really like your idea about harvesting abandoned bases. If players had the choice of taking over a base or harvesting it because it was designed poorly servers would tend toward better built bases as well. Maybe add a second stat on buildings for decay so a decaying building doesn't loose health its 2nd stat, decay, over time. Right now a stone building starts to decay after 18 hours of inactivity and completely decays 48 hours later. What if a building that's 10% decayed is 10% easier to pick through and gives 5% of the resources back and a building that's 100% decayed doesn't disappear immediately, but is as easy to pick through as a rock, and gives 50% of the resources back. Honestly I don't know how this would work in practice but its an cool idea, I'm interested in others' thoughts on it.
Just a few more comments: cupboard protection zones are cylindrical(i'm pretty sure). being able to destroy all doors in the cupboard radius seems op from a raiding standpoint but maybe make it a feature once a building is fully decayed.
[B]TL ; DR:[/B]
-KOS gets boring after a while
Ideas:
-player's hotbar visible on character model
-resource clusters spread out into regions
-earning xp harder in bigger groups[/QUOTE]
Displaying the hotbar will definitely curtail a lot of ambushes and surprise attacks, and is something I'd like to see.
However, you talk about wanting ways in which players are encouraged to play nicely together, yet condemn the big clans of players who are. If you want an entire server that plays nicely, they already exist. Just look for the PvE flag in the name.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;50535881]Displaying the hotbar will definitely curtail a lot of ambushes and surprise attacks, and is something I'd like to see.
However, you talk about wanting ways in which players are encouraged to play nicely together, yet condemn the big clans of players who are. If you want an entire server that plays nicely, they already exist. Just look for the PvE flag in the name.[/QUOTE]
You're right everyone getting along wouldn't really be fun(except for those who wish to play that way, PVE/build servers). What I want is for The big clans to have advantageous options other than killing everyone they can and raiding as much as they can. Bigger numbered groups will always the advantage in terms of PVP. If we want Rust to have a place for both people who want to play in big organized groups and people who want to play solo/small groups we need to find a reason for the big groups to not always choose the PVP option. You may agree you may disagree but the way I see it this would be the best way to appease the playstyle of most/all rust players.
[QUOTE=Tader Tot;50535917]You're right everyone getting along wouldn't really be fun(except for those who wish to play that way, PVE/build servers). What I want is for The big clans to have advantageous options other than killing everyone they can and raiding as much as they can. Bigger numbered groups will always the advantage in terms of PVP. If we want Rust to have a place for both people who want to play in big organized groups and people who want to play solo/small groups we need to find a reason for the big groups to not always choose the PVP option. You may agree you may disagree but the way I see it this would be the best way to appease the playstyle of most/all rust players.[/QUOTE]
Having more options is always nice, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Big groups should decide for themselves if they want to PVP or not, just like the solo/small groups should. Either group shouldn't be making that decision for the other.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;50536110]Big groups should decide for themselves if they want to PVP or not, just like the solo/small groups should. Either group shouldn't be making that decision for the other.[/QUOTE]
Yes exactly, but right now there really isn't a decision to be made for big groups. a group of 8 roaming is gonna always be favored against a group of 3. the group of 8 should pick kos because they get loot if they kill and nothing if they don't kill. Same thing with raiding and base defense. Its gonna be way easier for a clan with 15 members to get the explosives to raid a group of 5 than for the group of 5 to raid the group of 15. So why shouldn't the group of 15 raid the group of 5?
[QUOTE=Tader Tot;50536242]Yes exactly, but right now there really isn't a decision to be made for big groups. a group of 8 roaming is gonna always be favored against a group of 3. the group of 8 should pick kos because they get loot if they kill and nothing if they don't kill. Same thing with raiding and base defense. Its gonna be way easier for a clan with 15 members to get the explosives to raid a group of 5 than for the group of 5 to raid the group of 15. So why shouldn't the group of 15 raid the group of 5?[/QUOTE]
The responsibility there falls on the group of 5. What are they going to do to convince that group of 15 not to raid them?
I think that they should release an item like a sleeping bag that can be crafted with just wood. It could be as simple as a bed of leaves... or something. This could have a one time use. The most annoying thing about starting a new server is first finding animals and gathering cloth. There are not enough animals. A lot of the time on a fresh start I will die of starvation because I can't find food. I can spend an hour (sometimes its a few minutes) looking for an animal. A lot of the time I am killed before I can set up a decent base and put down a sleeping bag. Or I set up a base and people destroy my sleeping bags. That means I have to start all over again from scratch. I want to hide beds of leaves (cheaper sleeping bags that don't require cloth) around my base so that I don't have to start from scratch whenever I die.
The hemp plant is good because it provides a stable source of cloth. However, it takes a lot of time to harvest a decent amount and I will usually die before I have enough for a sleeping bag. Farming is really only useful for players that have already set up a base.
I think that casual players find it annoying to start from scratch whenever they die and all of the time they put in is literally wasted. I remember playing on a modded server where you got xp and level ups for gathering resources. With each level you would gather more of that resource. The progress (levels) remained after death and after some map wipes. It was good for me because I wasn't starting from absolute scratch and I felt that my time gathering resources was not completely wasted - Upon a new spawn I was gathering resources more quickly because of leveling up. Casual players (like me) need a sense of progression, even after death, and then they will be more invested in returning to a server.
Keeping loot after a raid is not the answer to give people a sense of progression. I think that it is unfair to the raider and doesn't fit with the mechanics of Rust.
Wooooo..... :goodjob:
Thank for all this replies ! :cry:
I'm actually on the prerelease and the new XP system is so.... sexy !! :D
I'm very happy to see with the last update the come back of radiation..
Combined to the XP system, it change a lot of things.
They added a best decay, that is also a good idea.
I think that the problem is also that the only "goal" for hardcore players is "rust-stats.com" ! :)
Maybe, adding a PVE goal for a wipe can be interesting to keep players...
They know that they can be raided but the goal is to "finish" the map before the end of the wipe.
The commercial way can be a good thing too.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;50536289]The responsibility there falls on the group of 5. What are they going to do to convince that group of 15 not to raid them?[/QUOTE]
our discussion is kinda dominating the thread and not really progressing or accomplishing anything but I'll reply one more time. My point is there isn't really anything the group of 5 can do to convince the group of 15 not to raid them. Seriously, what can they do? If I were the group of 15 I don't think they could do anything for me that I would prefer over the option of raiding them.
[QUOTE=Tader Tot;50540473]our discussion is kinda dominating the thread and not really progressing or accomplishing anything but I'll reply one more time. My point is there isn't really anything the group of 5 can do to convince the group of 15 not to raid them. Seriously, what can they do? If I were the group of 15 I don't think they could do anything for me that I would prefer over the option of raiding them.[/QUOTE]
I feel this is loosely related to the OPs topic. Just as it's a player's creativity the determines how effective they are at hiding their stuff, it's also up to the players' creativity to avoid clashes with larger groups. Diplomacy and humor really do go a long way when interacting with people. This forum is full of stories where small groups managed to outsmart larger ones. From joining and betraying them to fake bases to simply not getting bent out of shape when raided and asking them how to improve. There are a lot of skills outside of good aim and fast reflexes that can even the playing field.
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