[QUOTE=hovergroovie;49550103]Rust is a hardcore experience. It does not forgive individuals who have their belly exposed, and griefing is a measure to ensure you stay gone. We are currently on a server that does not allow griefing, and it's ridiculous. I'm moving out newbies every single day who just move back in to their shit shacks. Sure they are gathering for me, but it's a pain in the ass re-raiding bases. Area control is something only people at the top of the food chain will understand or appreciate. That may go the distance in explaining where you sit on there...
Also loot dumpers are chumps, but it has been my experience that most people don't start dumping if they think they still have a chance at keeping it. Online raids must be hard and fast and planned. Just how I like it.[/QUOTE]
I agree that it is a hardcore experience, but I don't think that having to go offline to go to work should be considered "having my belly exposed". Its just something that people who want not to die irl have to do.
I don't really agree with your statement that griefing is a technique used to make sure people stay away either, especially if it's done while your offline. It's cheap, and lazy.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=jayfkay;49550665]offline raids are more profitable and have been part of rust since day 1.
cant believe that I need to explain this again for all the wannabes like Datadawg.
raid online? not only are you playing against stacked odds (defenders usually have a huge positional advantage), but you also have to deal with defenders moving the loot away from wherever it is you are breaching or just simply despawning it.
And in the end you might lose either all your c4 for nothing or all your c4 and your gear if the defenders are really good.
No thanks. If you feel like you need to throw away a weeks worth of sulfur for nothing then go ahead.[/QUOTE]
Again another vote for the Rust is about offline Raids camp. Im seeing a pattern.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hammondisch;49554046]Offline raiding is unfortunately the only way people can ensure they will get the loot. Since you so easily get interrupted when raiding (while having your most expensive resources on you) and since you practically need to build a base nearby in order to ensure your safety, people will stop online raiding with more than pickaxes. Fasten the pace of the game and people might go around, but probably not. Dumping is the second issue, or on modded servers called loot-teleporting where the defenders have nothing to lose. Solution: differ loot crates between gearboxes/wardrobes and resource boxes. When base gets attacked, resource boxes of the base gets locked (greyed) out and all you can do as a defender is gearing up, defending your base. When the attack timer is over, defenders get back the access to their resources. Or something like that.
Also, make difference between attacker beds/bags and home owner beds/bags so that home owners have a chance to defend themselves against the usually overnumbered attackers. It doesnt seem as if people have any imagination left for solutions these days, just poorly made decisions based of half developed ideas... Vision if everything but nothing if it doesnt get defined and brought into the reality of problems and solution. Thank you. ¤ drops the mic ¤[/QUOTE]
Great ideas Hammondisch. I like em alot and thankyou for adding into the conversation. I hope someone at facepunch does take notice!
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;49555616]So I recently got into this game with a bunch of friends I met through other games, college, work, etc. We were having a lot of fun getting into skirmishes with people, finding stuff, exploring, and just enjoying the wild west that is Rust. Then after about a week of great times, we got raided by rocket-wielding literal 12-14 year olds who had been harrassing us for days.
Knowing the kind of game this is we expected raids, asshats, and even the fact that we would lose everything we had at some point... but we didn't expect just how bad the game was about to become. We spent hours trying to resettle, only to be killed and completely destroyed every time. We tried damn near every corner of the island.
So where am I going with this? The game has two extremely large problems that need to be overcome or it will forever be just another cancer-filled DayZ game.
1. There needs to be some sort of counter-play to raiding that doesn't involve being on 24/7. The youngest guy in our group is 25; we have jobs, a lot of us are studying post-sec, some of us wives, some of us even have kids. Meanwhile these guys literally waited by each of our sleeping bodies for some time, just so they could kill us when we logged in and taunt us.
2. The beginning of the game (or restarting after being completely removed from the map) is absolutely horrible. So much content is locked behind the 'settlement' wall, but you spend a great deal of this early stage of settlement being incredibly vulnerable, and for well-equipped attackers there is virtually no risk in killing you and destroying everything. If some sniper in a skyscraper (or some clan scout) even gets a whiff of a naked moving around, you can expect an entire team of sperglordes on your position in 2 minutes or less. It doesn't matter how much or how little you have: you will die because you can.
There is currently no balancing mechanism to stop run-away advancement and it quickly becomes a few clan towers, the single-man huts they think are abandoned, and then any groups that lost their base doomed to die again and again until they just move on to another server/game.
In summary: getting raided sucks, but that's Rust. Getting completely destroyed in every way while never having had a chance to fight back, and then having to restart really fucking sucks, and this enters pretty irritating territory. But having all that happen and then being completely unable to get on your feet again no matter what you do just kills whatever magic the game had left in it.
I can't even get the other guys to log in now. I'm completely alone and I suspect the game will just collect dust because I don't really have other options.[/QUOTE]
Interesting comments. I do think that alot of what you mentioned is just a part and parcel of rust, but agree with you about not being required to be on 24/7. Its that that really gets to me too.
Thanks for adding to the conversation.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=hadri;49556744]OP - I had a similar complaint on here some months ago and someone changed my opinion. It's not necessarily griefing as such, but REMOVING your base from the area and stopping you from resettling.
Offline raiding is a pain in the ass, and I like your suggestion of increasing the HP of walls. However I think its unfair if you genuinely want to online raid, but the base owners are offline, especially when you're both in different time zones.
Try a less populated server, say 20-50 on at once. It's a completely different way to play (coming from a 250-300 slot, always full server!)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the suggestion Hadri.
I understand your point about the griefing, but it's more the offline griefing/raiding that im concerned with. If it's done while im online then I have no issue with it.
Counter to your suggestion that increased wall hp would be unfair, I actually believe the opposite. In fact it would make it fair again. This is coming from a place of thinking that online raids should be preferrable to offline raids. If you're not there to defend it then at least the base can do some defending for you (other than the traps which aren't really that great)
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=mrknifey;49557412]i don't get it. comparing offline raids to online raids is like comparing apples and oranges. they are both legitimate ways to play, and enjoyable for entirely different reasons. do people really feel the need to choose one over the other as the "best" way to raid?
hell, half of the game is about [B]being[/B] raided, so each of these is less than a quarter of what you can do in the game.[/QUOTE]
Thanks mr knifey. I understand your point of view, but I still think there could be some level of extra protection for you while you're offline, for the raiders to contend with. The reason offline raids have become a thing is because people have to work etc, and there is no protections. If there were built in protections from the start then perhaps the culture of offline raids would be different...
I dunno but thankyou for adding to the conversation.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=leophir;49557473]Just play on a noob friendly not so populated (but not empty) small map server around. There is plenty and if someone steal your shit you can easily find who did it. Just search for noob in community.[/QUOTE]
Ha ha. Thankyou for your helpful reply.
Would searching under "Servers for people who have a life, are employed, and can't be on all the time" also suffice?
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Thank you for all your replies.
After reading them all it seems there are two camps formed...
(1) Group 1 believes that Offline Raids are a part of Rust, and just something that we have to deal with.
(2) Group 2 who believe that offline raids are frustrating and in some ways game breaking.
On the one hand I can understand group 1's point of view. It's true that offline raids have become the meta, at least for the servers i've played on. In fact i've never actually been online raided in my whole time playing the game. I'm also ashamed to admit that I have been on some offline raids, and I know how easy it is. I've stopped doing them because they made me feel hollow. But I also believe that the offline raid tactic has become the meta because the game wasn't designed with protections in mind. Whether or not this is the developers goal, im not sure. But I guess that from my point of view I always believed that the game was supposed to be more about raids being difficult, either because people were online to defend against you or because they had good defenses set up. Unfortunately the latter isn't possible. The best defense in the game, the auto turret, isn't really available as an early game option and the early game traps are a nuisance at best, and definitely not cut out to be worthy defenses.
I would still say that i'm among those of group two. I can't really justify offline raiding to myself as anything other than cheap and cowardly, and am frustrated when my hard work is destroyed without the chance to defend myself.
As with any game, the lowest common denominator will become the meta, because those who don't subscribe to it will be left behind. And if more traps aren't added, if no offline protections are made and if the problem of Dumping during online raids isn't fixed then offline raiding will continue to be that lowest denominator.
But perhaps this is more a problem with my expectations of the game. Perhaps I was expecting something of the game that isn't, and will never be in there. I'll give 7 days to die a try as someone mentioned earlier that they do have some level of offline protection. I just hope it doesn't go so far as to make it less of a "hardcore" experience.
Thanks again for all your input! Keep it coming!
[QUOTE=specialed;49561335]I agree that it is a hardcore experience, but I don't think that having to go offline to go to work should be considered "having my belly exposed". Its just something that people who want not to die irl have to do.
I don't really agree with your statement that griefing is a technique used to make sure people stay away either, especially if it's done while your offline. It's cheap, and lazy.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Again another vote for the Rust is about offline Raids camp. Im seeing a pattern.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Great ideas Hammondisch. I like em alot and thankyou for adding into the conversation. I hope someone at facepunch does take notice!
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Interesting comments. I do think that alot of what you mentioned is just a part and parcel of rust, but agree with you about not being required to be on 24/7. Its that that really gets to me too.
Thanks for adding to the conversation.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Thanks for the suggestion Hadri.
I understand your point about the griefing, but it's more the offline griefing/raiding that im concerned with. If it's done while im online then I have no issue with it.
Counter to your suggestion that increased wall hp would be unfair, I actually believe the opposite. In fact it would make it fair again. This is coming from a place of thinking that online raids should be preferrable to offline raids. If you're not there to defend it then at least the base can do some defending for you (other than the traps which aren't really that great)
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Thanks mr knifey. I understand your point of view, but I still think there could be some level of extra protection for you while you're offline, for the raiders to contend with. The reason offline raids have become a thing is because people have to work etc, and there is no protections. If there were built in protections from the start then perhaps the culture of offline raids would be different...
I dunno but thankyou for adding to the conversation.
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Ha ha. Thankyou for your helpful reply.
Would searching under "Servers for people who have a life, are employed, and can't be on all the time" also suffice?
[editline]19th January 2016[/editline]
Thank you for all your replies.
After reading them all it seems there are two camps formed...
(1) Group 1 believes that Offline Raids are a part of Rust, and just something that we have to deal with.
(2) Group 2 who believe that offline raids are frustrating and in some ways game breaking.
On the one hand I can understand group 1's point of view. It's true that offline raids have become the meta, at least for the servers i've played on. In fact i've never actually been online raided in my whole time playing the game. I'm also ashamed to admit that I have been on some offline raids, and I know how easy it is. I've stopped doing them because they made me feel hollow. But I also believe that the offline raid tactic has become the meta because the game wasn't designed with protections in mind. Whether or not this is the developers goal, im not sure. But I guess that from my point of view I always believed that the game was supposed to be more about raids being difficult, either because people were online to defend against you or because they had good defenses set up. Unfortunately the latter isn't possible. The best defense in the game, the auto turret, isn't really available as an early game option and the early game traps are a nuisance at best, and definitely not cut out to be worthy defenses.
I would still say that i'm among those of group two. I can't really justify offline raiding to myself as anything other than cheap and cowardly, and am frustrated when my hard work is destroyed without the chance to defend myself.
As with any game, the lowest common denominator will become the meta, because those who don't subscribe to it will be left behind. And if more traps aren't added, if no offline protections are made and if the problem of Dumping during online raids isn't fixed then offline raiding will continue to be that lowest denominator.
But perhaps this is more a problem with my expectations of the game. Perhaps I was expecting something of the game that isn't, and will never be in there. I'll give 7 days to die a try as someone mentioned earlier that they do have some level of offline protection. I just hope it doesn't go so far as to make it less of a "hardcore" experience.
Thanks again for all your input! Keep it coming![/QUOTE]
LOL. just stop crying and play. I play less than 3 hours a day and keep running 3 houses in solo way. Gathering bp frags and learning stuffs making weapons and upgrading more my bases. Even in server with 100+ players i do it with fun. WHAT FUCK YOU GUYS DO TO GET TOO BORED IN RUST???
[QUOTE=Vectruz;49563952]LOL. just stop crying and play. I play less than 3 hours a day and keep running 3 houses in solo way. Gathering bp frags and learning stuffs making weapons and upgrading more my bases. Even in server with 100+ players i do it with fun. WHAT FUCK YOU GUYS DO TO GET TOO BORED IN RUST???[/QUOTE]
Thankyou for your input. It was very helpful.
[QUOTE=specialed;49561335]
Thanks for the suggestion Hadri.
I understand your point about the griefing, but it's more the offline griefing/raiding that im concerned with. If it's done while im online then I have no issue with it.
Counter to your suggestion that increased wall hp would be unfair, I actually believe the opposite. In fact it would make it fair again. This is coming from a place of thinking that online raids should be preferrable to offline raids. If you're not there to defend it then at least the base can do some defending for you (other than the traps which aren't really that great)[/QUOTE]
You know what, the more I think about it, the more your suggestion about increasing wall HP makes sense. It's blatantly obvious if the person is offline or not and would balance the raiding difficulty so the raider can just make a decision, do I want to raid a defended base (and have lots of fun in doing so!) or spend extra resources getting through higher hp walls
[QUOTE=hadri;49569606]You know what, the more I think about it, the more your suggestion about increasing wall HP makes sense. It's blatantly obvious if the person is offline or not and would balance the raiding difficulty so the raider can just make a decision, do I want to raid a defended base (and have lots of fun in doing so!) or spend extra resources getting through higher hp walls[/QUOTE]
I believe so as well. At the moment it's not really a choice at all. There are no penalties for raiding offline so thats why its become the mainstay. Its really become a game where those who stay on the longest have the advantage over people who may be more skilled, either at fighting or diplomacy. And thats not really what I want in a game.
[QUOTE=specialed;49569641]I believe so as well. At the moment it's not really a choice at all. There are no penalties for raiding offline so thats why its become the mainstay. Its really become a game where those who stay on the longest have the advantage over people who may be more skilled, either at fighting or diplomacy. And thats not really what I want in a game.[/QUOTE]
then change the game... Is rust, think smart. all players have abilitys, i don't know to be a warrior, i am a thief and play like this. alone spot the weak points to use. Wait the time when your enemy is sleeping is skill it self, skill of surviver, the main skill in this game. fight and diplomacy are usefull, but not for everyone i am not a good fighter. i know how to build and how to sneak, but i really hard kill easy anyone. i use my sneak ability to scout and raid bases when all gone out or are sleeping
[QUOTE=Vectruz;49569783]then change the game... Is rust, think smart. all players have abilitys, i don't know to be a warrior, i am a thief and play like this. alone spot the weak points to use. Wait the time when your enemy is sleeping is skill it self, skill of surviver, the main skill in this game. fight and diplomacy are usefull, but not for everyone i am not a good fighter. i know how to build and how to sneak, but i really hard kill easy anyone. i use my sneak ability to scout and raid bases when all gone out or are sleeping[/QUOTE]
I understand your point of view and I like your passion for the game. I believe that it is a valid way to play. You can still sneak around waiting for your moment to strike, when a player is still online. Maybe they are collecting resources or maybe they are going on a raid of their own. But going to sleep or work in the real world shouldn't be equated with letting your guard down in the game world. That just seems unfair to me.
If I was online and I let my guard down. Went out to visit a friend. Went raiding. Thats absolutely fine. But I don't think I should be punished for having a job or needing sleep or wanting to get laid... That just seems unfair to me.
Thankyou for adding to the discussion, even though our opinions differ :)
[QUOTE=specialed;49569826]I understand your point of view and I like your passion for the game. I believe that it is a valid way to play. You can still sneak around waiting for your moment to strike, when a player is still online. Maybe they are collecting resources or maybe they are going on a raid of their own. But going to sleep or work in the real world shouldn't be equated with letting your guard down in the game world. That just seems unfair to me.
If I was online and I let my guard down. Went out to visit a friend. Went raiding. Thats absolutely fine. But I don't think I should be punished for having a job or needing sleep or wanting to get laid... That just seems unfair to me.
Thankyou for adding to the discussion, even though our opinions differ :)[/QUOTE]
that case. i just buy another copy of the game and build the base with this other account and play in the base with my main account, now i will have more defense and still playing normal... think this, when the people sleep in real life. A murder still arround to maybe kill. the world don't stop.
I understand, i wake up 6 a.m. go to work and back to home at 6 p.m.. i need go sleep really soon too. I don't play rust when my classes are running. next month i just stop playing. because i get home close to 11 p.m. and need wake up at 6.
But i don't will try change a really amazing game, just i can't play a hardcore game... i still have minecraft, CS:GO, Fallout 4 and other titles i can play in weekends without trouble if i don't log in for days.
I really like if this game make some item, like a cupboard but for block decay when running with some fuel.
If you put 1k wood in cupboard fuel slot. This block decay for 100 hours (4 days and 6 hours) before all fuel run out the decay start work like the player go offline in that time. if this exists i still playing rust even studiyng. But i see this mechanics just in Reign of Kings, may i migrate to this game. and for defense... i really like some traps, just traps. turrets are cool but to expensive and the noise is trully idiot, all know where the turrets are and disable from behind
We've been talking about this stuff for over 2 years, but once again it all comes down to exploitation. Wall HP bonuses, offline protection, blanket protection... this is all eminently abusable, particularly by groups. And making it impossible to take possession of a raided house either through locked cupboards or some kind of tagged foundation ownership is against the spirit of the game.
If you want to have a fighting chance, try a server with a more regular wipe. The one I'm on re-rolls once a week. I like it a lot.
[QUOTE=Murdo;49570793]We've been talking about this stuff for over 2 years, but once again it all comes down to exploitation. Wall HP bonuses, offline protection, blanket protection... this is all eminently abusable, particularly by groups. And making it impossible to take possession of a raided house either through locked cupboards or some kind of tagged foundation ownership is against the spirit of the game.[/QUOTE]
I havent been around for two years so i'm out of the loop. What sort of ways could groups abuse the things you mentioned?
[QUOTE=specialed;49575345]I havent been around for two years so i'm out of the loop. What sort of ways could groups abuse the things you mentioned?[/QUOTE]
The nature of the abuse depends on the details and how you define "ownership". Here's a few examples off the top of my head:
If it's based on who laid the foundation, the base could be built by a clan member who logs on rarely but just often enough to occasionally restart the timer (if any), thus allowing the rest of the clan to actively defend it along with 3X HP bonuses. Similarly the builder could log off at the start of the raid. If there was no time limit, clans could have an exchange program building each others' bases on different servers shortly after map wipe. If ownership was based on the tool cupboard, all members de-authorize right before a raid. If there's a cooldown, all clan members remain unauthorized at all times unless they need to build additions or make repairs. If it's based on whether doors have recently been opened inside a base, it's possible to circumvent that as well with creative building and temporary twig pathways. Protection ends when boxes are accessed on a connected foundation? Have the loot room built by a different person than the walls/outer sections... plus finding the first box during a raid destroys protection base-wide. Protection ends when boxes are accessed within a cupboard zone? It's possible to build a base protected by cupboards without actually being inside the zone... or a temporary base defense stash outside the cupboard zone when a raid is about to occur.
For 3X HP on walls, players will find the exploits and use them to make their bases not economically viable to raid... and the solo'ers and straight-up players will find their bases bear the brunt of peoples' pent-up C4.
[QUOTE=Murdo;49575530]The nature of the abuse depends on the details and how you define "ownership". Here's a few examples off the top of my head:
If it's based on who laid the foundation, the base could be built by a clan member who logs on rarely but just often enough to occasionally restart the timer (if any), thus allowing the rest of the clan to actively defend it along with 3X HP bonuses. Similarly the builder could log off at the start of the raid. If there was no time limit, clans could have an exchange program building each others' bases on different servers shortly after map wipe. If ownership was based on the tool cupboard, all members de-authorize right before a raid. If there's a cooldown, all clan members remain unauthorized at all times unless they need to build additions or make repairs. If it's based on whether doors have recently been opened inside a base, it's possible to circumvent that as well with creative building and temporary twig pathways. Protection ends when boxes are accessed on a connected foundation? Have the loot room built by a different person than the walls/outer sections... plus finding the first box during a raid destroys protection base-wide. Protection ends when boxes are accessed within a cupboard zone? It's possible to build a base protected by cupboards without actually being inside the zone... or a temporary base defense stash outside the cupboard zone when a raid is about to occur.
For 3X HP on walls, players will find the exploits and use them to make their bases not economically viable to raid... and the solo'ers and straight-up players will find their bases bear the brunt of peoples' pent-up C4.[/QUOTE]
Thanks mate. I see what you're saying. You make some really good points. I still think there must be a way to encourage online raiding again though. In the Poll I put up someone suggested that the culture of offline raids was partly due to C4 costing so much. They believed that because it costs so much to make they don't want to lose it unnecessarily, and thus offline raids make the most sense. I'm inclined to agree. Perhaps they could work on the economy so that losing an online raid wasn't such a big hit to the raiders. More C4 is always better right? Haha.
But seriously though I do think this could be a good option. There must be something we can do.
[QUOTE=specialed;49575629]Thanks mate. I see what you're saying. You make some really good points. I still think there must be a way to encourage online raiding again though. In the Poll I put up someone suggested that the culture of offline raids was partly due to C4 costing so much. They believed that because it costs so much to make they don't want to lose it unnecessarily, and thus offline raids make the most sense. I'm inclined to agree. Perhaps they could work on the economy so that losing an online raid wasn't such a big hit to the raiders. More C4 is always better right? Haha.
But seriously though I do think this could be a good option. There must be something we can do.[/QUOTE]
There really isn't anything you can do, first because garry doesn't want artificial systems controlling how players behave; and second because without an artificial system in place, offline raiding is always going to be cheaper and less of a gamble than online raiding. They can add more ways to build traps, but just like the current defenses that are present in the game now, it's ultimately up to the players to utilize them. Security is never guaranteed in Rust, and it never should be, but how difficult it is to get to you or your stuff is already up to you.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;49576041]There really isn't anything you can do, first because garry doesn't want artificial systems controlling how players behave; and second because without an artificial system in place, offline raiding is always going to be cheaper and less of a gamble than online raiding. They can add more ways to build traps, but just like the current defenses that are present in the game now, it's ultimately up to the players to utilize them. Security is never guaranteed in Rust, and it never should be, but how difficult it is to get to you or your stuff is already up to you.[/QUOTE]
Interesting points, but personally I don't really agree. I think that the game should have that element of risk to it, but there's a difference between making a game involve risk and leaving a game unbalanced. And whether they like it or not the developers are always creating artificial systems that govern how people play. That's what a game is, an artificial system with rules and physics that govern how people play. The fact that 80% of raids are now offline raids is an symptom of that very process. The decisions and changes they have made up to this point have resulted in that being the way people play.
But I respect your opinion and can see that it has its own validity to it. Thank you for adding to the conversation.
[QUOTE=specialed;49576381]Interesting points, but personally I don't really agree. I think that the game should have that element of risk to it, but there's a difference between making a game involve risk and leaving a game unbalanced. And whether they like it or not the developers are always creating artificial systems that govern how people play. That's what a game is, an artificial system with rules and physics that govern how people play. The fact that 80% of raids are now offline raids is an symptom of that very process. The decisions and changes they have made up to this point have resulted in that being the way people play.
But I respect your opinion and can see that it has its own validity to it. Thank you for adding to the conversation.[/QUOTE]
The public opinion that 80% of raids are offline raids aren't a symptom of the rules governing how people play, merely a reflection of the easier way to raid. This by no means is an indication on how players play, let alone how successful those raids are. We are free to deal with the threat of offline raids in the manner that best suits us; whether it's by teaming up with a group that can occupy the base when we can't, by building more defenses around our base, building multiple bases that might not seem worth raiding, etc. They've even added an item to help mitigate the damage once we are raided (small stash).
I still stand by my point, surviving an offline raid is entirely up to us: how much effort we want to put into our defenses, how well we build our bases, and also smart server choices (if you're trying to solo on a max pop server, simply lol). There really isn't any unbalance in the game, only the success or failure of our decision making. If you wake up dead, learn what you did wrong.
dude, yesterday i make 2 raids, i see weak points in big bases, i not will wait the owners wake up to raid... i just pick my pickaxes and C4 i need get down the gates and destroy some cupboard make a little tower, C4 on the wall thanam loot... if i wait, i never will raid, when i raid this base 3 guys try to kill me, i won at end solo player. in loot room when i arrive i see six guys in the ground. i never succed if half of all are online. Plus, not is my fault they have a stone all in third floor with large box visible from outside
[QUOTE=Kurogo;49577265]The public opinion that 80% of raids are offline raids aren't a symptom of the rules governing how people play, merely a reflection of the easier way to raid. This by no means is an indication on how players play, let alone how successful those raids are. We are free to deal with the threat of offline raids in the manner that best suits us; whether it's by teaming up with a group that can occupy the base when we can't, by building more defenses around our base, building multiple bases that might not seem worth raiding, etc. They've even added an item to help mitigate the damage once we are raided (small stash).
I still stand by my point, surviving an offline raid is entirely up to us: how much effort we want to put into our defenses, how well we build our bases, and also smart server choices (if you're trying to solo on a max pop server, simply lol). There really isn't any unbalance in the game, only the success or failure of our decision making. If you wake up dead, learn what you did wrong.[/QUOTE]
We'll have to agree to disagree I fear. I do think that the public opinion "80% of raids are offline raids" does give us a strong indication of how people play, unless you assume that those asked are lying or otherwise not in a position to accurately judge the situation.. And to me the difference between rules governing how people play and it just being an easier way to raid are almost non-existent. They are part of the same process. It's easier to offline raid because thats what the mechanics (rules as you say) of the game have allowed, and people know that so they abuse it.
Additionally, i don't believe that surviving an offline raid is completely in our hands. If it were then the statistics would point towards a more even distribution of offline and online raids. People offline raid precisely because they know people cant fight back, and the fate of their base rests solely in the hands of the raiders. No matter how much building or coordination you do there will always be a time when you are offline, and someone with enough C4 to bury your base. No decisions I make can ever secure me against an offline raid. Also no, I am not playing solo.
[editline]22nd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Vectruz;49578008]dude, yesterday i make 2 raids, i see weak points in big bases, i not will wait the owners wake up to raid... i just pick my pickaxes and C4 i need get down the gates and destroy some cupboard make a little tower, C4 on the wall thanam loot... if i wait, i never will raid, when i raid this base 3 guys try to kill me, i won at end solo player. in loot room when i arrive i see six guys in the ground. i never succed if half of all are online. Plus, not is my fault they have a stone all in third floor with large box visible from outside[/QUOTE]
I am not advocating for the removal of offline raids altogether vectruz. Im just advocating for something that could level the playing field while people go offline. If their base is poorly built you should be able to offline raid it, even if it had higher hp walls for instance.
Fix the dynamic of despawning loot during raids and you'll see less offline raids. Trust. :) Otherwise, when fixed, those who offline raid are merely afraid of battle.
Honestly adjusting the raiding aspect destroys the whole point of the game. This is coming from someone who is running on OSX and hasn't been able to log-in all day due to the recent update. I just got raided and lost everything. I watched a couple hours of gameplay videos before even buying this game, bought it with the full understanding of the clear pvp aspect and raiding aspects of the game.
Honestly I try to play in servers with lower amounts of people, while the map is large, when you play in a game with a 200 player capacity you have to assume its going to be tough to start up and restart once things go south. That would be my best recommendation, play in a server with fewer amounts of people lowers the chance of a detrimental raid but also lowers the chance of you being griefed as you re-build.
On another note creating a good base makes all the difference as well, the idea of raids in the middle of the night forces you to be more creative when building. Theres alot to be said for not being an easy target, why go after your base when the guy down the hill can be got in a couple minutes.
Bottom line I understand your frustration but this game is mean't to be challenging, It's a game that's meant to pit players against each others but also about teamwork. Get some friends to build with you.
[QUOTE=specialed;49581804]We'll have to agree to disagree I fear. I do think that the public opinion "80% of raids are offline raids" does give us a strong indication of how people play, unless you assume that those asked are lying or otherwise not in a position to accurately judge the situation.. And to me the difference between rules governing how people play and it just being an easier way to raid are almost non-existent. They are part of the same process. It's easier to offline raid because thats what the mechanics (rules as you say) of the game have allowed, and people know that so they abuse it.
Additionally, i don't believe that surviving an offline raid is completely in our hands. If it were then the statistics would point towards a more even distribution of offline and online raids. People offline raid precisely because they know people cant fight back, and the fate of their base rests solely in the hands of the raiders. No matter how much building or coordination you do there will always be a time when you are offline, and someone with enough C4 to bury your base. No decisions I make can ever secure me against an offline raid. Also no, I am not playing solo.
[editline]22nd January 2016[/editline]
I am not advocating for the removal of offline raids altogether vectruz. Im just advocating for something that could level the playing field while people go offline. If their base is poorly built you should be able to offline raid it, even if it had higher hp walls for instance.[/QUOTE]
You still failed to address whether those raids are successful or not, which is precisely my point. I've never been raided while online, but only 10% of the raids that I have experienced were ever successful. And that's when I have been raided. Smart building, defenses that are expensive to get through, etc. are all things I attribute to that. As mentioned before, this isn't a new topic, and it shares a lot of similarity to the ones on solo vs groups and newspawns vs vets: adapt. If you can't, well you said it yourself, this may not be your game.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;49582263]You still failed to address whether those raids are successful or not, which is precisely my point. I've never been raided while online, but only 10% of the raids that I have experienced were ever successful. And that's when I have been raided. Smart building, defenses that are expensive to get through, etc. are all things I attribute to that. As mentioned before, this isn't a new topic, and it shares a lot of similarity to the ones on solo vs groups and newspawns vs vets: adapt. If you can't, well you said it yourself, this may not be your game.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, it may not be your game. The PVP/Raid features of this game are what makes it rust, if you want to throw on the mittens and change the raiding aspect might as well stick to minecraft.
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49582303]Exactly, it may not be your game. The PVP/Raid features of this game are what makes it rust, if you want to throw on the mittens and change the raiding aspect might as well stick to minecraft.[/QUOTE]
Yeap. minecraft is great game too. and really easer, i got some saves from lasts mounts i played minecraft. I back to rust now, and will still for a while. I build smart bases to, i never get raided when i build, some guys blow one or another wall but never get the loot or cupboards. i play in clan groups some times, all loot gone in one or 2 days, but all players are stupid ones like we need a bigger and easier base to be raided, with giant rooms and high tower without having door for maybe 4 C4 explosions from the loot, all raiders use really nothing to get the loot, when i play alone, i just build small houses with like 16 C4 to get all lot, and like 6 C4 for the first box can be rechead LOL getting some coal, or leather and more 2 or 4 C4 to get some kind of weapon or material to make more C4
doing this the best raided me as, thief 200+ HQM but my base still on and with guns, i see walls down re-build last than 10 minutes and still playing
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49582192]On another note creating a good base makes all the difference as well, the idea of raids in the middle of the night forces you to be more creative when building. Theres alot to be said for not being an easy target, why go after your base when the guy down the hill can be got in a couple minutes.[/QUOTE]
This hasn't done me any favours at all. The same group of guys follows us around and raids us constantly. Luckily I logged in this time and dumped everything so these cocksuckers got nothing, but it's getting a bit old. It's the same every time: get a few guns together, get a decent resource stockpile, get raided. Even the best base designs will not deter someone who just really wants in. In Rust, if they want you gone and you're not online, you're gone. And until you can get the technology to match them, you will never have a chance anyway.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;49583618]This hasn't done me any favours at all. The same group of guys follows us around and raids us constantly. Luckily I logged in this time and dumped everything so these cocksuckers got nothing, but it's getting a bit old. It's the same every time: get a few guns together, get a decent resource stockpile, get raided. Even the best base designs will not deter someone who just really wants in. In Rust, if they want you gone and you're not online, you're gone. And until you can get the technology to match them, you will never have a chance anyway.[/QUOTE]
be off the radar, don't mess big clans, don't build close to loot points. If you are small, don't try face the big ones. it's impossible, if you are 2 or 3 guys with ak or bolt, facing 5+ people with full set and attachments you know you are dead.
if still small, still quite, still playing smart work to fine for a lot of people, is really possible to play like that. I now have 4 bases in the server, stolen one yesterday at 10 p.m. all small bases, and if someone expend C4 to raid i have others to live, if someone raid one, the loot don't have resource to make another C4, maybe one and HQM are to shatterred between the bases, can't build anything. and if the raiders use just 2 C4 for break one unique wall... they don't get all loot maybe nothing. playing in this way i just get raided one time by someone using pickaxe in one inverted wall on the first base i get, i fixed the wall and now just C4 to pass LOL
[QUOTE=specialed;49547026]Its known as offline raiding, or offline griefing.[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ man, there are so many ways to protect your shit and you yet complain? Wow, go google base building guide or save yourself some life time and just quit.
My group is made of 3 of us living on a heavily populated server. When we have attempted to online raid we end up fighting the home owners AND naked's/randoms that come RUNNING to the sound of rockets/C4. Also by the time we fight off the randoms and home owners we find empty despawned loot rooms.
Even when we offline raid someone we have to fight off the vultures that come to try and get free loot.
The timed protection wouldn't work. I would build my main base, and a base nearby overlooking my main base. I'd just craft and overwatch my base until that protection kicked in.
Offline raiding will always happen. There realistically are only 2 options to minimize offline raiding.
A) Reduce the price for explosives. The problem with explosives being so expensive is that solo players or small groups don't want to risk online raiding due to all the time spent collecting and crafting explosives. Rust legacy's prices were cheaper and while offline raiding still happened, there were many more online raids that occurred.
B) Restrict server location to people only in that time zone. The majority of players will have the same sleep schedule thus reducing offline raiding.
I've read about half of the posts here.... you guys can debate this till you're blue in the face lol. Either type of raiding be it offline or not is fun and challenging at times. Not everyone is going to want to play the same..for me, I like both ways. Trying to get into a base that is occupied is a good challenge as is trying to get into a well defended base while the owner is offline. It just all depends on how you want to play at that moment I guess. I've got a little over 4600 hours...I've seen and done it all.
Peace
[QUOTE=A. James;49585574]The timed protection wouldn't work. I would build my main base, and a base nearby overlooking my main base. I'd just craft and overwatch my base until that protection kicked in.
Offline raiding will always happen. There realistically are only 2 options to minimize offline raiding.
A) Reduce the price for explosives. The problem with explosives being so expensive is that solo players or small groups don't want to risk online raiding due to all the time spent collecting and crafting explosives. Rust legacy's prices were cheaper and while offline raiding still happened, there were many more online raids that occurred.
B) Restrict server location to people only in that time zone. The majority of players will have the same sleep schedule thus reducing offline raiding.[/QUOTE]
Time Zone restrictions would kill server populations hard.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
