Has anyone noticed that most of the people who complain about balance issues are attempting to play solo?
Don't get me wrong, I totally get the frustration, I tried playing solo as well and it just doesn't work out.
Balancing will happen in time, it's even in the Trello, so what's the point of QQ'ing about it here?
People who are having issues surviving and thriving should try different approaches to their strategy. If solo isn't working maybe try making a group of your own. Maybe try building a small hidden home instead of a 10 story fortress in the middle of an open field surrounded by 50 spike walls and gates.
If you aren't successful every time, don't blame the game.
AGAIN, I agree that balancing needs to happen to some extent, but it's already in the Trello.
You guys should just L2P. Nothing wrong with me and my clan walking around killing everything on site causing other players to die or leave the game for another server. Just jealous. This is A REAL SURVIVAL GAME GUIZE. ITS SURVIVAL. THEY NEED TO FIX HOW MUCH THEY ARE CODDLING YOU NOOOBS AS IT IS. AS SOON AS I GET MY CLAN LOGGED IN AFTER THE SERVER RESET THEY SHOULD MAKE IT WHERE WHEN YOU DIE ONCE YOUR GAME UNINSTALLS AND YOU HAVE TO BUY ANOTHER KEY!
(****Unless you have the special magic Sleeping bag drop, only attainable by using a large clan to dominate a servers resources long enough to equip it, preferably something my clan can, i mean the players can, only attain with the top 1% of resources on the map***)
If resources and animals would spawn in areas far from the roads and ruins new players could get a leg up before being spotted by high gear players.
I can't wait until the game turns to ezmode shit because people without a clue keep complaining about how "hard" it is to survive. Yes it makes complete sense that ONE person should be able to keep up with a group of TEN people... Don't collect/build next to the fucking road and you might not get instantly annihilated. Also don't play on a 100+ pop server and expect to survive for extended periods of time.
Everything is fine with the game IMHO, but it feels crowded, would be nice if map was ~5 times its current size with resources spread out across the map.
They could keep the blueprints and rad towns in the area they are, if they spread the animals and basic resources out a bit. People would still need to compete for the weapons, armor and air drops, but they could get out of the way and get a base established with less chance of getting raided if they didn't need to stay on or near the road. I understand why they're doing it, but it does get frustrating if you have to start fresh every day because of raiders.
[QUOTE=flyYOUf00ls;43441275]I can't wait until the game turns to ezmode shit because people without a clue keep complaining about how "hard" it is to survive. Yes it makes complete sense that ONE person should be able to keep up with a group of TEN people... Don't collect/build next to the fucking road and you might not get instantly annihilated. Also don't play on a 100+ pop server and expect to survive for extended periods of time.[/QUOTE]
Surviving is easy. Competing is not. Keep crying, go ahead and leave now, look up garrys ama and the upcoming changes planned, they know there is a balance problem, they are working on fixing it. You might as well quit now bro, take your clan to Dayz.
the only real problem is that the maps IMO only really can support about 30 players logged in at a time.
Once the resources are expanded or we get the 'real' map, getting off the ground will be easier.
[QUOTE=SolLeks;43441828]the only real problem is that the maps IMO only really can support about 30 players logged in at a time.
Once the resources are expanded or we get the 'real' map, getting off the ground will be easier.[/QUOTE]
Maybe only 30 players who are all solo'ing. The map can support a LOT more people if you group up and help defend eachother.
I actually agree with Not A Cobra. I say actually, because in the beginning i also thought "Ugh, that dumb, selfish, completely noobish 12-yo, how dares he to kill me with his Uzi, while i have only a bow? What the F did i do to him to earn this? I even hopped a few times!"
Then i became better at the game, had ofcourse some luck finding stone and built myself a nice little shelter i then expanded into a little fort. I had everything - gunpowder, metal, stone, wood, food, weapons. Enough to die 3-4 times and still be well equipped. Even got a silencer blueprint. Then i roamed the world and everyone i saw was not a player but an additional threat. The only reason i havent shot EVERYONE on sight was that i had to conserve ammo and that a 9mm was apparently one of (Not-Emo-Gaylord-)Dante's guns and therefore deals as much damage as wet paperballs.
Aaaanyways. Point is - once you have a MP5 or even a 9mm, you dont want to give it to anyone. So everyone who gets just a single step too close - which ironically is the exact range of the handcannon - gets an instant lead-mask. Not because i hate players or enjoy them being forced to start over, but because i dont want to turn my back on them just to get their hatched struck right into my arse.
I solo, i manage to harvest 95% of the time unmolested. My warehouse is nigh impossible to find and hasn't been touched in the 3 weeks since I built it. My server is max pop 50 and averages 14-20 throughout the day. I've been hunting down a group of bandits that recently appeared on the server. Sleepers is activated. Inshort, alone or in a group, if you are a dumbass, this game will be hard for you. If you lack resourcefulness and problem solving skills, this game will be hard for you. If your expectation is that a game that is hard for you needs to be dumbed down, no matter how much they take away, it will remain hard for you.
L2P isn't enough here. Common sense would better apply.
Solo is possible, and quite a bit more interesting for those up for the challenge. For those that aren't, there are always clans looking to get larger, servers with low populations, PvE, or whatever else that can help provide you with the experience you are looking for. But like an airdrop, your going to have to go find it if you want it that much.
it is easy mode shit right now.
also:
the colony is a tv show. this is a video game. quit trying to compare this product to a "real world survival sim". it's not. it's not gonna be cuz it appears the codbois don't want it to be. and that's the final irony: the folks who are against any of the ops ideas ARE the ez mode cod players, they just don't have any real opposition yet because the game isn't retail. most of these "bandips" will go to the next flavor of the month game when this goes retail because REAL clans will show up and dominate.
but again, it's not a real survival sim, so stop trying to pitch it as one.
you guys sound like the kids on the nether forums.
Peace
B
[QUOTE=Bassmeant;43448669]it is easy mode shit right now.
also:
the colony is a tv show. this is a video game. quit trying to compare this product to a "real world survival sim". it's not. it's not gonna be cuz it appears the codbois don't want it to be. and that's the final irony: the folks who are against any of the ops ideas ARE the ez mode cod players, they just don't have any real opposition yet because the game isn't retail. most of these "bandips" will go to the next flavor of the month game when this goes retail because REAL clans will show up and dominate.
but again, it's not a real survival sim, so stop trying to pitch it as one.
you guys sound like the kids on the nether forums.
Peace
B[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily true. If you ever saw my K/D on CoD, you'd see that I suck at it. But I don't have to play Rust like CoD. On here, I can achieve my goals without having to gun people down, or race against a timer. I can be undergeared and outmatched, but still win if their goal is to take my shit. I just have to be more clever, or more cautious, or too damn far out to find. Right now, the risk of going near a strange base to harvest is exciting. Following a group of bandits to find their base is rewarding. And meeting someone you don't know and walking away alive feels like an accomplishment.
[QUOTE=Bassmeant;43448669]it is easy mode shit right now.
also:
the colony is a tv show. this is a video game. quit trying to compare this product to a "real world survival sim". it's not. it's not gonna be cuz it appears the codbois don't want it to be. and that's the final irony: the folks who are against any of the ops ideas ARE the ez mode cod players, they just don't have any real opposition yet because the game isn't retail. most of these "bandips" will go to the next flavor of the month game when this goes retail because REAL clans will show up and dominate.
but again, it's not a real survival sim, so stop trying to pitch it as one.
you guys sound like the kids on the nether forums.
Peace
B[/QUOTE]
meh.
That's a fairly narrow view.
I for one hate firefights, I avoid them wherever I can.
Doesn't stop me being one of the most geared people on the server.
I pick my fights carefully, run when I can and attempt to avoid combat.
If you can blow up a sleeping guy's door and steal a mountain of stuff, why not take that option when the alternatives are farming for a month or trying to fight of three other guys.
As for rust's direction...
I can't think about it without getting sad.
Look at it's potential... but it's never going to reach it.
There is a good chance that this is more or less what the final game looks like, sans a few enemies, weapons and a tech tree.
I don't expect a style change, but who knows.
[QUOTE=verance;43440012]You talk like it is absolutely impossible to kill someone with full kevlar and a shotgun.. this is bullshit man. Even a bow hits half health of someone with full kevlar.. You can set up a trap with a friend and if you play it right you will kill him. Ofcourse this will take alot of skill, but yeah it's supposed to be that way because he is stronger than both of you. And everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
And yes I have done it myself before.[/QUOTE]
thing is all the people on my server are seasoned fps players.
not one of them is dumb enough to fall into traps.
and there are 9 of them and 3 of us
either you have the same gear they have and have a chance at beating them. or they steam roll you hard with superior fire power.
the thing is that m4s are vastly more tactically flexible then any other weapon in the game,
at long range , sure you might get a lucky bow hit if you use cover , but they use cover too
i can out skill 5 smucks with shotguns and pistols with a bow or a m9.
but the dps of 5 dudes with m4s is simply not practical.
its like giving an aimbotter a mini gun in a game like chivalry
So I actually have a team. We regularly demolish folks. And I'd like to agree with the OP: it's way too hard to get up and off the ground at the moment.
Here's why this is a problem, despite our massive advantage: whenever we raid a group about equal to our size and finally raze them to the ground, they leave the server. A server with ~30-50 pop may have 2-4 "us sized" groups, or one much larger (and usually entirely n00bish) group. So the pattern has been "amass goods >> build bases and weapons >> raid the crap out of other groups" which either ends in someone accusing of hax0rs, an admin deciding that they're suddenly PVE, or the server completely empties after we're done trashing everyone in it, at which point we move onto another server.
I think removal of the military-grade weapons will go a long way towards helping -- it would be nice to know that if you and your buddy got the jump on someone with a pipe shotty, you'd actually have a chance to be back up and running after a major loss. The curve between "kevlar/m4" and "leather/pipe shotty" at the moment is way more severe than it should be, which means revenge, even as a group, is pretty amazingly difficult to achieve.
And it isn't really fun after a while. I really don't like meeting new people, forming rivalries, good natured ribbing in chat, and then suddenly losing that rivalry to QQ. I also think that server dilution plays greatly into this: there's not a lot of incentive to stick with a server after you've been kicked in the teeth.
All I can throw in here is that I'm a fairly new player with < 200 hours. But I know my way around, I know how to craft ideally, I know how to get up quickly.
I start the game with nothing. I run and hide. When it's safe I run out and gather resources, running from any predator animals and avoiding anything that looks like light. I only cook by day when the fire is less obvious. I don't use night at light until I have a gun and at least SOME armor. I stay away from the drops. I sneak into a few towns at night, very slowly and indirectly, to grab supplies.
You know what? It works. Unless there's a hacker or an abusive admin, you can get it done. It's hard, as it should be. If you could instantly power up to compete with a base of 4 guys, then the game wouldn't be any fun.
On my server I hand out items to noobs like raw chicken and small allocations of wood. Enough to keep them from dying off but not enough to give them a big advantage. I do a giveall so the experienced players get the goods too, but 50 wood isn't nearly as helpful to them when they already have 6000 and a metal fort.
The idea is that the game is supposed to be challenging. It's not unbeatable, just difficult. If you want a game that holds your hand and gives you tons of bonuses, this may not be the game for you. No offense, just sayin'.
[QUOTE=olliecromwell;43449961]So I actually have a team. We regularly demolish folks. And I'd like to agree with the OP: it's way too hard to get up and off the ground at the moment.
Here's why this is a problem, despite our massive advantage: whenever we raid a group about equal to our size and finally raze them to the ground, they leave the server. A server with ~30-50 pop may have 2-4 "us sized" groups, or one much larger (and usually entirely n00bish) group. So the pattern has been "amass goods >> build bases and weapons >> raid the crap out of other groups" which either ends in someone accusing of hax0rs, an admin deciding that they're suddenly PVE, or the server completely empties after we're done trashing everyone in it, at which point we move onto another server.
I think removal of the military-grade weapons will go a long way towards helping -- it would be nice to know that if you and your buddy got the jump on someone with a pipe shotty, you'd actually have a chance to be back up and running after a major loss. The curve between "kevlar/m4" and "leather/pipe shotty" at the moment is way more severe than it should be, which means revenge, even as a group, is pretty amazingly difficult to achieve.
And it isn't really fun after a while. I really don't like meeting new people, forming rivalries, good natured ribbing in chat, and then suddenly losing that rivalry to QQ. I also think that server dilution plays greatly into this: there's not a lot of incentive to stick with a server after you've been kicked in the teeth.[/QUOTE]
that is a pretty accurate description , when i get all my stuff raided , i lose the tangible reason for staying on a server , research takes to long to have anything meaningful researched in the 1 - 2 days it takes to get raided.
so i just move along to a new server . it is less about qq , and more about "what is keeping me here?"
i mean once you have been raided, then the people who raided you know you are in the area. they will keep coming back if you rebuild. and having to start from a rock is not fun. plus if some one raided you , it kinda means some one already has everything on the server.
much easier to just go to a freshly wiped server than have to struggle all the way back to where i was avoiding m4 + Kevlar groups of 10. fuck that noise.
i mean sure i could build a house with 10 metal doors, but such an obstacle is completely inconsequential to a group of established players.
[QUOTE=saltychipmunk;43450344]that is a pretty accurate description , when i get all my stuff raided , i lose the tangible reason for staying on a server , research takes to long to have anything meaningful researched in the 1 - 2 days it takes to get raided.
so i just move along to a new server . it is less about qq , and more about "what is keeping me here?"
i mean once you have been raided, then the people who raided you know you are in the area. they will keep coming back if you rebuild. and having to start from a rock is not fun. plus if some one raided you , it kinda means some one already has everything on the server.
much easier to just go to a freshly wiped server than have to struggle all the way back to where i was avoiding m4 + Kevlar groups of 10. fuck that noise.
i mean sure i could build a house with 10 metal doors, but such an obstacle is completely inconsequential to a group of established players.[/QUOTE]
Except you are giving up your recipes you have already learned. If being raided once is that devastating to you, feel free to continue jumping servers. I for one don't give up at the first wrench in the engine. But then again, one base getting raided doesn't completely wipe me out. This is a game of strategy and tactics, if yours aren't working, it's time to come up with new ones.
I think people need to be made aware of this site, i wish it was posted on rusts site in and obvious place and maybe a sticky at the top of this forum that says "VISIT HERE BEFORE POSTING"
[url]https://trello.com/b/lG8jtz6v/rust[/url]
At this link you can see what they are working on during development, what their priorities are and future ideas. On the site you will see a "card" as they call them listed under the PRIORITY section (its near the bottom, scroll down) it says "Major Balance Pass" If you click on this card it pulls up more details and comments by the developer one of these comments is "There is a bit of a rich getting richer poor getting poorer problem that needs to be addressed on high pop servers" which is followed up by "sounds like we need robin hood to make an appearance" If you just take the time to look around and read you'll find many of your complaints.. most everyone's complaints are being worked on and they are already aware of the issues.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;43451334]Except you are giving up your recipes you have already learned. If being raided once is that devastating to you, feel free to continue jumping servers. I for one don't give up at the first wrench in the engine. But then again, one base getting raided doesn't completely wipe me out. This is a game of strategy and tactics, if yours aren't working, it's time to come up with new ones.[/QUOTE]
research, is inconsequential one can unlock everything of value in 1 day of play time.
all you need is full kevlar ( from zombies)
the 556 ammo (from zombies)
the m4 (from zombies)
the holo sight (from zombies)
done research of relevant items .
hell you can do that without needing a house , just build some shack to store some crap and , spend every waking hour outside killing zombies , who gives a crap if you die , respawn kill more zombies .
it takes no time to get blue prints , it take 1200 seconds to craft 16 foundations . yeah...........
[QUOTE=Kurogo;43448615]I solo, i manage to harvest 95% of the time unmolested. If you lack resourcefulness and problem solving skills, this game will be hard for you. If your expectation is that a game that is hard for you needs to be dumbed down, no matter how much they take away, it will remain hard for you.
L2P isn't enough here. Common sense would better apply.
Solo is possible, and quite a bit more interesting for those up for the challenge. For those that aren't, there are always clans looking to get larger, servers with low populations, PvE, or whatever else that can help provide you with the experience you are looking for. But like an airdrop, your going to have to go find it if you want it that much.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely.
find them? , it is never a question of finding them , it is a question of surviving them. it is much more prudent to avoid them on established servers , and if one drops near your house ... you are kinda doomed.
that is kind of what happened to a mate on my server, he built this ultra low profile house in the mountains , then an air drop happened near it , a group of 5 came for the drop and killed everyone , and then followed and gunned people down in the neighboring areas, they then combed the surrounding mountains thoroughly and , guess what that hidden house that no one would have any reason to find? found , looted , player left the server , in the space of 5 minutes. and there was nothing he could do about it,
the group of five killed 40 people in 15 minutes entirely because they were the first players on the server and had been monopolizing ever since .
the gap in power between the m4/Kevlar combo and everything else is too vast
Game is pretty much a burglary and robbery simulator at the moment. Which is fine, though I personally see no reason to even build anything. Hackers and glitchers aside, building a base and storing supplies does nothing but provide for someone else while you're sleeping or at work.
Why even do it?
Better to just take everything from others. The sooner everyone learns this, the better.
I agree with this to an extent I got my friend to play and we were trying to meet up so we could try to start a base. I have large bases on other servers but I wanted to start from the beginning so he could learn the basics of crafting, gathering food, hiding a shack, staying away from other people, etc.
After spending several hours getting killed trying to sprint to the same place hidden location. After dying several more times trying to get enough cloth to make sleeping bags we managed to get a hidden shack, with sleeping bags. We put a furnace in one of our shacks because we needed wooden walls/metal doors asap.
After several hours we had one foundation down with 4 pillars and 2 walls. we didn't want to put up the doorways yet so someone wouldn't just run up and put doors on our doorways.
Then 5 people in full kevlar and modded m4's come pickaxe our shacks, and destroy everything. When we made our way back to that area they had put pillars up on our foundation so we could not use it.
We decided to try again. this time opting for an even more hidden location and, instead of two shacks, we would share one in the hopes it would draw less attention.
This time it was 3 people in full kevlar used c4 on our shack and destroyed everything. We were still working on a furnace to make a pistol. It would have been futile because cloth + pistol < kevlar + m4.
we tried again in a different location but a few naked people came and kept taking all of our stuff through the doors. We used all our ammo on them but they kept coming back and we ran out of shots so we left that base.
We went to a different server with less people and scouted an even more out of the way area. We did much better we got up a foundation + metal doors, we even crafted some pistols and were getting blueprints off zombies. But we are very far away from the zombies so we die trying to rush our items back to the base before we die.
We wound up getting raided again by people with c4, kevlar, and mods. There were 4 this time and we killed 2 because we found a shotgun before we died and everything we had was destroyed. After farming zombies for several hours we were able to craft one piece of kevlar.
My friend decided that this game sucked mostly because, without ever getting a chance to get cool stuff, he was getting outnumbered, outgunned, and killed by people with cool stuff.
i think there is a HUGE misunderstanding here: this is to all those who think the op is asking for more water to be added to the code. that's not the issue. the game should not be made easier. it should be made harder.
the game foundation is solid. ditch the zeds, increase the wolves to about 10 per pack, open the map up, make food and temp and water count more, include sleep and infection issues, boom you got your survival sim. throw in snow to clean out the weak links.
but this is not what's going on and this is not the probelm:
everything you guys ("gearheadz") are doing is legit for [U]post retail[/U].
if you REALLY wanna help em test the servers, then killing people over and over isn't going to do that. you've done it. it's been tested.
what IS going to do that is letting all of the people on the server build what they are trying to build to see how it stresses the server. if there are problems as it is now, how bad will it get POST retail when 300 people are on a server and the map is now large enough to support ALL of their fortresses?
will the game suddenly bog down because we actually never tested that. we never had a FULL server with all the players actually achieving full builds because the players that got to a certain point gear wise went COD on everyone else, thus not only limiting the amount of resource testing that could actually take place but also eroding the potential future player base by driving out people who weren't gearheadz?
you guys have tested the kevlar and c4 ad naseum. i think the feedback is there. cool, well done. it works. prolly too well.
what hasn't been tested is 60-200 some odd people all working together to build 1 mega structure that actually manages to push the limits of the server and y'know... help the devs test?
if killin people is so fun, then you guys should all get together to build some disgustingly large monstrousity of a fortress and then fight in it. think outside the box.
your play style is not being called into question.
your timing is.
"So I actually have a team. We regularly demolish folks. And I'd like to agree with the OP: it's way too hard to get up and off the ground at the moment." thank you for at least being honest about it.
Peace
B
[QUOTE=Bassmeant;43454802]i think there is a HUGE misunderstanding here:
the game foundation is solid. ditch the zeds, increase the wolves to about 10 per pack, open the map up, make food and temp and water count more, boom you got your survival sim.
but this is not what's going on and this is not the probelm:
everything you guys are doing is legit for post retail.
if you REALLY wanna help em test the servers, then killing people over and over isn't going to do that.
what IS going to do that is letting all of the people on the server build what they are trying to build to see how it stresses the server. if there are problems as it is, how bad will it get POST retail when 300 people are on a server and the map is now large enough to support ALL of their fortresses?
will the game suddenly bog down because we actually never tested that. we never had a FULL server with all the players actually achieving full builds because the players that got to a certain point gear wise went COD on everyone else, thus not only limiting the amount of resource testing that could actually take place but also eroding the potential future player base by driving out people who weren't gearheadz?
you guys have tested the kevlar and c4 ad naseum. i think the feedback is there.
what hasn't been tested is 60 some odd people all working together to build 1 mega structure that actually manages to push the limits of the server and y'know... help the devs test?
your play style is not being called into question.
your timing is.
Peace
B[/QUOTE]
NOTE: I am only focusing on your topic regarding pvp and killing people. Not about the other shit contained within... so please, don't attempt to retaliate with anything relating to the other content in the post, just the pvp selection.
How can you say that doesn't help test rust by pvping? It certainly does. They know there's a balance issue and a learning curve.
If you really believe that, then no offense... you really don't know what testing games is. PVP is a portion of the game, killing people just to kill them or to engage in pvp activity is part of testing the game. They can make suggestions, they can offer advice, they can portray bugs or glitches, improper firing patterns, absolutely horrid aim while shooting (if that ever happens, as far as I've seen I can hit 9/10 bullets rapid-firing), etc. So you sir, are wrong. Hate to tell you, but it's true.
what more do you need to test about the weapons at this point? that's balance stuff that comes after core mechanics. otherwise you end up chasing your tail and releasing patch after patch of nerfs and buffs. you do all the balancing at the final open beta. not at the alpha when the core stuff is wonky, the guns won't matter.
Peace
B
You're focus firing a dead horse here Bass. The point is that people pvping each other is still testing the game, unless that happens to be an opinion. In which case, I'll accept it for what it is.
I'm not telling you you're an idiot or that you're wrong for having a different opinion. I'm merely stating that your statement regarding pvp is rather faulty. Everything else: sure. But I'm not going to say you're correct on the pvp aspect. Not at all. But as you and I are entitled to our opinions... I respect yours, and I kindly agree to disagree regarding it.
none of this comes with any aggro, bro. please don't mistake any of my posts for that.
i dig that some of you have been on this for a while, a longer while then some of the cats who just jumped in. i'm not hating on pvp. i love it. i notice that even dayz is full of servers that have all gone pve only, which is sad.
my only thing, and i've seen this in so many other alpha/betas in both similar and different ways, is that certain groups who tend toward a certain element do so at the exclusion of all else. in their love for the game, they become blind to how some of the very things they love end up killing the overall thing in the long run. that's all i'm tryin to push here. and again, until i've actually seen it, i don't think everything has been tested. i don't think anyone has had the chance to find the key number to what it takes to break a server with regards to building assets.
but respect for your last post.
Peace
B
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