[QUOTE=Bassmeant;43456814]none of this comes with any aggro, bro. please don't mistake any of my posts for that.
i dig that some of you have been on this for a while, a longer while then some of the cats who just jumped in. i'm not hating on pvp. i love it. i notice that even dayz is full of servers that have all gone pve only, which is sad.
my only thing, and i've seen this in so many other alpha/betas in both similar and different ways, is that certain groups who tend toward a certain element do so at the exclusion of all else. in their love for the game, they become blind to how some of the very things they love end up killing the overall thing in the long run. that's all i'm tryin to push here. and again, until i've actually seen it, i don't think everything has been tested. i don't think anyone has had the chance to find the key number to what it takes to break a server with regards to building assets.
but respect for your last post.
Peace
B[/QUOTE]
Thats just patterns of linear progression within games. People get good, or they get terrible. DayZ has some PVE garbage as well going on, this is known. The only difference is that the PVE servers are reported quite fast because they discourage you from PVPing in a SURVIVAL GAME that allows you to kill others, rob them, snipe them, etc.
I mean the same literally goes for Rust. It's linear progression. Oh you've fortified a base for yourself? What else is left? PVE content and killing zombies while avoiding the PVP scene? Nah... It's going to be PVP or PVE, or both. Most of the time, even while I've achieved rising to the top, I tend to engage in PVP that I know will get me killed. Why? It's fun. And it provides me the fun that I need to continually play, and push for restarting rather than a wiped server. Now don't get me wrong... that's a form of linear progression, but changing it often and frequently turns it around and you have a parabola of events instead of a stagnate set of events.
Stagnation is the main killer of games. When things become too easy, or boring, or lackluster... you tend to continually do them. Those that want more out of their games own't let it become a stalemate. They'll change it up and involve others, do other things as well... maybe show some courtesy to a fresh spawn because they're so bored and the idea of dying, as diluted as it sounds, becomes something they seek so they have to do something else... There's always a lust for power somewhere.
I also disagree with Bass. I've looked on some of the PvE servers and there were huge structures -everywhere-. There are servers where the build capacity is being pushed harder than PvP. I'm not interested in those kind of servers in the slightest, but they are out there.
I really like the PvP aspect, the only thing I don't like about the higher tiers is that typically once you're fully geared with Kevlar and weapons a [i]couple[/i] of people can shut down a [i]major portion[/i] of the map with practically [i]no risk to themselves[/i]. It's the carefree manner that people get once entrenched, and it basically becomes "everyone needs to play survival, except for those guys".
Though I'm not really sure what the proper balancing methods for that would be to continue making the game challenging for the higher tiers without just decking everyone out, because the climb is fun too. I heard a comment was made by Garry about this as if he has a plan, but I haven't read the source first hand and can't find the post...
Additionally I wish I saw at least one battle with the really crude weapons, it's always immediately pistols, SMGs and rifles.
A core problem with the gameplay in Rust - hackers
"and there were huge structures -everywhere-. "
i have not seen a megastructure anywhere. i have seen "big" buildings and stuff, but i don't think "huge" means the same to you as to me.
i've been on a lotta servers and have never seen any bog down because of builds, which is prolly something that should be happening because if it doesn't happen now, it would be bad for it to happen post retail.
in re: pvp
i think the best pvp will happen when you have REAL clans, not groups of 4 or 6 players with gear. once you have 2 groups of 30 or 40 going at it, that should take this game to a whole other level.
what i realized recently is that this is not a dayz mod mod.
this is a wasteland mod. they are taking the better parts of wasteland and upping the ante.
totally different way of looking at it, knowing that.
Peace
B
[QUOTE=Bassmeant;43460889]"and there were huge structures -everywhere-. "
i have not seen a megastructure anywhere. i have seen "big" buildings and stuff, but i don't think "huge" means the same to you as to me.
i've been on a lotta servers and have never seen any bog down because of builds, which is prolly something that should be happening because if it doesn't happen now, it would be bad for it to happen post retail.
in re: pvp
i think the best pvp will happen when you have REAL clans, not groups of 4 or 6 players with gear. once you have 2 groups of 30 or 40 going at it, that should take this game to a whole other level.
what i realized recently is that this is not a dayz mod mod.
this is a wasteland mod. they are taking the better parts of wasteland and upping the ante.
totally different way of looking at it, knowing that.
Peace
B[/QUOTE]
As far as huge vs really big builds, you're right. It might mean something different to you than it means to me. It's further hard to gauge considering I don't know what servers and buildings you have seen, and am sure the opposite is true. To avoid a pointless pissing contest though, the point is that whether its one big building or several smaller buildings built close together, its the amount of dynamic player placed structures that will create the load on the server. I have not yet seen any issues regarding this.
I agree with your opinion that this is a wasteland themed game, in fact that was the biggest attraction I had to it.
[QUOTE=saltychipmunk;43437733]players being dicks to you in game?
don't complain on the forums , because those people tend to also be on the forums , simple logic really .
the op has a vaild point , there is very little incentive to play on an established populated server ,
the map is too small and the resource nods easily monopolized ,
but tba all they need to do to fix it is :
remove m4
remove shotgun
remove m9
remove p250.
remove mp5
game is fixed.
you would be surprised how easy it is to escape confrontations when your opponents don't have freaking machine guns.
if those weapons are removed then naked actually have a chance , a chance to fight with things like bows , or a chance to escape .
regardless of how the game should be played , that intention is ultimately perverted by the presence of game and atmosphere breaking items.
and with the addition of the revolver , we dont need those items anymore
we have a shotgun
we will have a pistol
we have a rifle
we have a bow
we have melee weapons
why the hell do we STILL need m4s? we dont , there is no justifiable reason for them.[/QUOTE]
The military hardware is being tested and because of that they need to be obtainable by larger ammounts of people than in the finished product.
High-tier items are easily obtainable for this reason, TESTING. If they were hard to find, not a lot people would have them because of frequent wipes.
i think we have enough feed back on the high tier guns , now turn them the fuck off. that is my opinion.
need to find a no m4 server.
One solution to this problem would be to just look for a server with a recent wipe instead of one that hasnt been cleared in several weeks or months. It doesnt take too long to come back from a raid. The biggest thing is you can still craft everything you've learned. taking a lot of that time you spent prior back. Playing quietly and smart are the best ways to play this game. midnight farming is a little risky, but even dawn or dusk farming can be profitable where most players are either heading back home or havent gone out yet and you can still see. Setting up shop in a well hidden, off the beaten path is a must, unless you do have a team and you can pool your resources into a larger, better defended base. On the server im on there is the added benefit of having most of the server population as friends, but we still respect each other territories and know our own limits. after the first major sweep of raids we all experienced some of us relocated, and/or paired off. Strength in numbers. Find a friend and work together. When me and my partner went to our new location it was so well hidden we lost it and had to search for it for like a half hour before we found it again. Its a bit of a hike but putting your home in the mountains and hidden between the rocks helps alot. Hard to see and unless you are follow typically only explorers are going to find you. This game is actually very balanced and realistic in the way of what the game is playing out. a group of people move into a resource rich valley after the world burns itself to the ground. they set themselves up. A short time later new people move into the valley. they can either stay quite and avoid those who have been there longer and thus are better armed, or they can try to join them, or they can try to fight them. Either way new people moving into an area in this fashion is pretty true to expectations. Newcomers should not have an advantage, the advantage you gain in this game comes from time played and skill(be it intelligent planning, or your skill at aiming). whether or not they stay there is based on there experiences there. You could always find another server if the one you are on sucks. There are something like 3000 servers, you can find one that works for you
looking for recently wiped servers is not reliable.
due to the nature of the alpha and how everything is made way to available. the first people on a wiped server can gain access to end game items in less than 1 day of game play.
no the real answer to find servers in which the ability to acquire the raid enabling items is significantly delayed .
like servers that say, out right remove the ability to get m4s and explosives for the first 3 days after a reset to give people a chance to build up adequate defenses . and then enables the restricted spawn rate of said items.
[QUOTE=saltychipmunk;43474057]looking for recently wiped servers is not reliable.
due to the nature of the alpha and how everything is made way to available. the first people on a wiped server can gain access to end game items in less than 1 day of game play.
no the real answer to find servers in which the ability to acquire the raid enabling items is significantly delayed .
like servers that say, out right remove the ability to get m4s and explosives for the first 3 days after a reset to give people a chance to build up adequate defenses . and then enables the restricted spawn rate of said items.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. That's the kind of server I wanted to play, and there weren't any like that with decent ping for us (we're Aussie), so my housemates and I started our own...
- Only 1-3 airdrops per real day, at random times and locations
- modified airdrops so they aren't ridiculously overpowered
- about 25% chance for 1-6 C4 and 3-10 grenades from airdrops
- about 15% chance for a factory-grade weapon from airdrops
- about 15% chance for 1-2 weapon mods from airdrops
- about 20% chance for 1-2 Kevlar parts from airdrops
- about 20% chance for 25-50 of each ammo from airdrops (rare or crafted otherwise)
- about 20% chance for 2 metal building parts from airdrops (may be identical)
- about 1% chance for MBPs from zombies or wooden crates, 3% for wooden parts/handful of planks
- about 1% chance for research kits from zombies
- about 3% chance for research kits from 'medical' crates (red)
- about 0.3% chance from zombies for 1 C4, 1-3 grenades, or FG weapon
- about 2% chance for one of those from 'weapon' crates (white/blue)
- only weapons that can be crafted are available to player from the start
- so research kits are primarily useful for rad gear, leather armour, Kevlar, metal building parts, large storage, ammos, large medkits, and weapon mods.
At the moment we have had about 100 people try (log into) the server, we have 30 or so regulars already (played more than 10hrs/2days), and usually 5-11 playing at once. After about 6 days running there exist only 1 M4, 3 MP5s, a couple of handguns, about 12 C4 and 20 grenades in the server. Spread pretty evenly amongst the players too - though there are two 'villages' and 1 clan, of about 5 players each, which have already sprung up :) Even today, in the space of an hour I saw about 4 or 5 more players join up because they'd been invited by others.
It's a very different dynamic with settings like these - that M4 sure makes people a target (in the space of a day it prompted a couple of raids back and forth lol!), and at least one of the MP5s has changed hands in exchange for building materials. There's almost no KoS since it's not easy to one-hit people with the makeshift weapons (though as I learned the hard way, a point blank blast from the pipe shotty will down you).. And in case you're wondering, I started out as a fresh spawn myself with nothing but a Hatchet to help me. Just how I roll (admin commands are only used for events, or to help rectify people's building mistakes, griefing etc).
If anyone would like to try it out, or would like my drop list config in order to make their own server (with better ping if you're not Aussie), then just let me know and I'll help you out.
I think the OP makes a fair point. However, I don't think the game should turn into "Oh, I just bought this game and I should now just be able to get weapons easily." I've seen a few servers with starter kits and although that's fair for that server, it kinda takes away from the experience of trying to go from nothing to having a good amount of resources.
I'm not on my own so it's not a case of needing to be with a group or anything, but it does require a bit of luck to get even close to those with C4, shotguns and M4's. I wouldn't say there's anything that should be done about it though. It wouldn't be fair to those that have managed to get their resources and if it was easy to keep them, the game wouldn't have much longevity.
I find that getting off the ground isn't as hard as staying there. I've been raided so many times regardless of if I have metal doors, spike walls etc. I think C4 should be more difficult to obtain because the main issue with the game is that it's far too difficult to defend your inventory.
The OP makes a good point about a frustration felt by 70% of the community. There are good points on both sides to be sure... and logic flaws all over the place. I'll re-iterrate what I heard from the OP and add my own thoughts:
- People are extremely brutal in this game.
- The balance of this game is currently out of whack in that it incintivizes KOS and noob farming.
- Solo players are at a severe disadvantage.
- Solo players have no chance to "win" against large groups and this is appropriate.
- Solo players have no chance to even establish their own niche and enjoy being a participant. (not the winner)
- Running every new player out of the game early isn't good for the long-term viability of this game.
On the flip side... here are some valid points:
- if you're playing on a high-pop server... it comes with some downsides.
- If you're playing on a pvp server... it comes with some downsides.
- solo players should NEVER be able to adequately compete long term with groups... especially established groups.
I freaking love this game. I love the PVP aspect. I love the challenge of survival. I love the hard-knocks, "sorry kid" gameplay. I do however think its terribly imbalanced. Don't mistake a claim of imbalance as whining that its too hard.
Luckily... I think much better balance can be achieved with current mods. Two in particular. the loot tables modification and the crafting restrictions. Here is what we're modifying on the new server my crew and I are setting up.
- C4 pattern only drops from supply drops
- Explosives are uncraftable. so no one can ever make a C4 production line only needing field resources. explosives come from supply drops and rarely from zombies.
- Ammo is much more rare. The goal here is to make noobs "not worth the ammo" when you may need it to defend against a raid or to raid yourself.
- debating making military-grade ammo uncraftable.
- M4 is uncraftable.. only found. and very rare. (less than 1% from weapons crates) (may be widening this to include other military-grade weapons)
- weapons and armor broken in to tiers with much increased rarity. (kevlar, MP5A4, M4, etc)
- extremely rare research kits. Only from zombie drops. This means you must be thoughtful about what you want craftable. and if that research kit will be around if you save it.
- Rad pills only from supply drops and extremely rarely from zombies. This reduces rad-town farming's overwhelming success rate right now and reduces the success of rad-farm camping/sniping.
- Increased food drop from zombies. This encourages zombie killing to allow rad-farming.
- wood and sulfur only available from field resources.
- more higher tier weapons in supply drops. radpill drops from them in high numbers.
Net effect hopefully is this:
- all four sources must be used to advance yourself or your group. (rad towns, zombies, supply drops, and field resources)
- reduced importance of rad sites. particularly zombie-dodging chest grabs. Big Civilian has MUCH lessened appeal.
- attacks and raids are more strategic and less willie-nillie.
- large, protected bases are more secure, but not invulnerable. Attacking them becomes strategic.
- new players have a "chance" due to not being worth attacking. Until they are established.
- solo players likely wont be able to "win", but they can and will participate without being steamrolled by groups with C4 and guns in abundance.
- increased pvp at supply drops due to their increased importance.
- a longer game.
- a clear winner that will be dubbed by the admins before a re-wipe.
TLDR:
I agree completely with the OP and with many of the comments afterwards. I feel we can achieve a better balance through mods and a private server, which we're doing.
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