You'll probably find an increase in naked killing now actually since you now have to farm ludicrous amounts to replace guns, armour, tools. Nakeds are usually farming, tools are a pain the ass now. Arrows to kill nakeds, more materials for weapons.
People seem to think it's going to help. It's not.
Dura is good, but the speed of degradation is ridiculously fast.
this durability bullshit ruins the game(play) for me.
i want to PLAY, not to grind endlessly. you need to invest so much time in this game already because
you need to farm shit all day. but farming itself is not complicated and isn't that annoying. its just part of the game.
but now you need to invest even more time to repair your stuff. i exaggerate, but is this game only for unemployed people?
seriously, aren't games supposed to be fun? it's not fun repairing virtual items in my freetime. it's somewhat realistic, it's not like it wouldn't make no sense at all, but i don't want 100% realism.
thats why i play a game while sitting in a house and don't live in the forest chopping wood.
i don't see any point in this. what is the durability in the game for? what is this supposed to do?
enhance survival experience? no, it's just a pain in the ass, but not difficult.
imho:
as i predicted with the locked backpacks, FP started to feed the crying babies that get KOSed.
FP fucks up the experience for the bandits by adding more and more cost to killing other players, because locked backpacks weren't enough, because (thanks god) i rarely know any server which uses this crap locked backpacks.
BUT, if thats the point of this "feature", i can say that its not working. iam killing even more nakeds now, because i don't want to farm myself anymore. AND, because they already offer me a fresh (stone)hatchet.
All it does is punish the early game a lot more (which a lot of players seem to get stuck at). I mean of course it isn't a big deal for those of us with 20 pickaxes and crates dedicated to each weapon. The change doesn't really bother me but it would be nice to see them tweak it down a little bit so it helps the poorer players not get stuck at being poor.
edit: I suck at grammar
I don't really care that much for the weapons.
I Just want the freaking Pick axes and hatchets not to be ruined after about 90 hits...
[QUOTE=Cookie-;44053448]I don't really care that much for the weapons.
I Just want the freaking Pick axes and hatchets not to be ruined after about 90 hits...[/QUOTE]
Yep.
I have a serious question:
what is supposed to happen when i break all my farming tools? is the solution to log out and back in so i spawn a rock again?
is this what we want in this game? seriously?
[editline]26th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Apachewolf;44053411] I mean of course it isn't a big deal for those of us with 20 pickaxes and crates dedicated to each weapon.
edit: I suck at grammar[/QUOTE]
this is also a reason for me why it doesn't belong in the game at all. it's just a pain in the ass, but has no specific purpose.
[QUOTE=0rbit;44053005]The durability loss does seem too fast, especially when it comes to harvesting.
We now need to craft like 10 stone hatchets before we go on a resource run...[/QUOTE]
Really??
You are either playing on a dead server and it's pointless anyway, or this is BS. A stone hatchet lasts for about 3-5 wood piles and about the same number of rocks (or more)
On a busy server that would be an exceptional haul, and you sure as hell won't hang around carrying that much stuff.
The replacement cost of hatchets is utterly trivial, so what the hell are you whining about? :rolleyes:
[editline]26th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ustolemygmrta;44047920]...Also, any of the Guns should have a 1% chance of jamming on each firing in my opinion. If you wanna play the bad guy then it will cost ya.[/QUOTE]
Exactly... There needs to be a risk involved in using an unreliable gun, other than reduced capacity before it's inoperative.
STALKER used this mechanic quite well, as guns wore out they became less and less reliable to the point where they would jam after almost every shot. They were still effective, but very cumbersome to use. (think M4 turned into a pipe shotgun!)
[editline]26th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;44046316]M4 Durability.
New = 100%
290 rounds -> broken
16 LQM Repair -> 85%
246 rounds -> broken
13 LQM Repair -> 63%
183 rounds -> broken
10 LQM Repair -> 45%
130 rounds -> broken
7 LQM Repair -> 31%
90 rounds -> broken
5 LQM Repair -> 20%
58 rounds -> broken
4 LQM Repair -> 11%
32 rounds -> destroyed
Total life expectancy 1029 rounds, repair costs 55 LQM.
You can repair before the weapon breaks, will cost less LQM but the top condition will still be lowered.
Personally wouldn't take out any weapon that's been repaired more than 3 times unless it was an emergency (IE, such weapons are reserved for base defense only)[/QUOTE]
Awesome testing!
This proves beyond a doubt that the durability is absolutely fine. 1000+ rounds before it's broken beyond repair?? Big freakin' deal!
If you really need to shoot more than 1000 rounds in a week, you're either a really bad shot, or you're just a moron, playing the [B]wrong [/B]game. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=RustBubba;44053535]Really??
You are either playing on a dead server and it's pointless anyway, or this is BS. A stone hatchet lasts for about 3-5 wood piles and about the same number of rocks (or more)
On a busy server that would be an exceptional haul, and you sure as hell won't hang around carrying that much stuff.
The replacement cost of hatchets is utterly trivial, so what the hell are you whining about? :rolleyes:
[editline]26th February 2014[/editline]
Exactly... There needs to be a risk involved in using an unreliable gun, other than reduced capacity before it's inoperative.
STALKER used this mechanic quite well, as guns wore out they became less and less reliable to the point where they would jam after almost every shot. They were still effective, but very cumbersome to use. (think M4 turned into a pipe shotgun!)
[editline]26th February 2014[/editline]
Awesome testing!
This proves beyond a doubt that the durability is absolutely fine. 1000+ rounds before it's broken beyond repair?? Big freakin' deal!
If you really need to shoot more than 1000 rounds in a week, you're either a really bad shot, or you're just a moron, playing the [B]wrong [/B]game. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
LOL, you think firing 1000 rounds in a week is unfathomable? Don't try and act like you're some awesome shot. From your post, I'll assume you play on a 30 person or less at peak server, and don't actively PVP.
I think the durability does need a tweak, but it's widely being looked at from the wrong perspective.
A lot of complaints are coming from the standpoint of "now I can't do XXXXXX because my weapon / tool breaks after XXX uses." This does not mean the game mechanics are now "broken." They were changed. What happened was you got used to a process that was never intended to remain in the form that you were using it. Taking a stone hatchet and gathering 1,000 logs in a "normal supply run" was probably not intended functionality. What you need to look at is if the durability makes sense for what you get out of the item.
Now ok, sure, when you have a metal hatchet breaking in a few minutes, it seems bad. Keep in mind, you are gathering resources at a highly unrealistic pace for the sake of keeping the game fun and keeping things moving (we absolutely don't want things to take as long in-game as in real life, that's going too far). Still, you can essentially use a hatchet to gather enough material to make a small house. Compared to its real life counterpart, that's actually not so unrealistic. It would have some pretty decent wear on it by that time, and would at least need a good sharpening. In the terms of what you get out of it, I don't think this is terrible, but the durability could stand a tweak in the upward direction for better quality hatchets / pickaxes / etc.
Military weapons wear out too fast for the way the models look in-game, certainly. No argument there. A brand new gun can have a few thousand rounds put through it without cleaning. These should be adjusted one of two ways. Either the military weapons need their durability pushed up, or the game models need to reflect a worse state of decay from sitting around in storage crates. This is assuming they are staying in-game down the road, and simply become "ultra rare" of course. If they're just vanishing, well, then it's a moot point.
I don't think the durability would bother me as long as you could repair it back to full. Only real downside I see if losing mods on a weapon. Sure mods arn't had to make once learned but damn people spend enough time at the crafting tables making stuff. It would be a lot better if you go back and fix it instead of well have to build an entire new thing. Maybe make it to where when you repair it it goes form 100 max durability to 95 max. Seems the Max durability drops way to much to fast.
[QUOTE=Lanceolittle;44054679]I don't think the durability would bother me as long as you could repair it back to full. Only real downside I see if losing mods on a weapon. Sure mods arn't had to make once learned but damn people spend enough time at the crafting tables making stuff. It would be a lot better if you go back and fix it instead of well have to build an entire new thing. Maybe make it to where when you repair it it goes form 100 max durability to 95 max. Seems the Max durability drops way to much to fast.[/QUOTE]
You bring up a good point.
For this reason, what I would like to see is an option of repair vs replace.
You could either "repair" an item multiple times for a low material cost and have the maximum durability lowered each time, or you could "replace" the damage / worn parts for the equivalent of 75% of the materials needed to craft a completely new one, but it would restore it to full durability.
Simply repairing a broken item would also lower the durability more than repairing an item before it breaks.
Military weapons notwithstanding, as you really shouldn't be able to craft machine-made pieces, but you could replace them with parts found around the world. Their durability could then be increased fairly significantly as it would be offset by the increased difficulty of repairing them.
[QUOTE=The_Unruly;44048874]I'm testing out this configuration on my server right now.
conditionloss.damagemultiplier "0.25"
conditionloss.armorhealthmult "0.25"
I have not seen how durability is by default, with these settings I cleared 4 animals with my hatchet and my durability went down to 98%.
So is this slower or the same amount of loss?[/QUOTE]
Thanks for showing the commands!
But I think it would be better if those configurations were set as default for every server :D
[QUOTE=Omega Man;44052748]Do you ever stop kissing Dev ass?[/QUOTE]
No, the devs give me undetectable cheats for kissing their asses on the forum.
/sarcasm
Honestly though, I think people are too hard on the devs for making changes. They're making an awesome game that we all obviously love (otherwise we probably wouldn't be here arguing about it) but every time they try to make a change it's like the fucking thunderdome in here.
Everyone bitching and moaning about this change and that change without putting a decently thought-out argument behind their whining is just being a troll. You don't have to agree with all of the changes but they're going to happen whether you complain or not so try to be a bit more objective rather than subjective.
After mining one single valley with a stone hatchet and it broke.. I am now in favor of changing durability greatly, or even removing it via custom server settings.
Also, the pickaxe I found.. didn't seem to hold up any longer than the stone hatchet.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44056158]No, the devs give me undetectable cheats for kissing their asses on the forum.
/sarcasm
Honestly though, I think people are too hard on the devs for making changes. They're making an awesome game that we all obviously love (otherwise we probably wouldn't be here arguing about it) but every time they try to make a change it's like the fucking thunderdome in here.
Everyone bitching and moaning about this change and that change without putting a decently thought-out argument behind their whining is just being a troll. You don't have to agree with all of the changes but they're going to happen whether you complain or not so try to be a bit more objective rather than subjective.[/QUOTE]
While there is obviously a lot of whining, some of it could be avoided. The simple inclusion of the fact that the current durability factors can be set via server config might have avoided some of the consternation. Likewise with a note that the water level was raised. Or that the sun would be rising and setting in a different direction.
Granted, some folks will whine when things change regardless of how well it was communicated or executed, but not all of it falls into that category.
[QUOTE=dlovin123;44056196]After mining one single valley...[/QUOTE]
If you can do that, then "durability" is a complete and utter non-issue... Really, how much material are you gathering versus the value of a freaking [B]stone [/B]hatchet?? Build another goddamned stone hatchet and bring it with you if you really need to.
Move to a server with other humans on it and you might see why it's a non-issue. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;44056272]While there is obviously a lot of whining, some of it could be avoided. The simple inclusion of the fact that the current durability factors can be set via server config might have avoided some of the consternation. Likewise with a note that the water level was raised. Or that the sun would be rising and setting in a different direction.
Granted, some folks will whine when things change regardless of how well it was communicated or executed, but not all of it falls into that category.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but if they added the rcon commands to the patch notes then a majority of the servers would turn it off, which really doesn't help with alpha testing.
A majority of players are playing a slightly different game than everyone else with all of the mods that are out there, which, from what I understand, is exactly why Garry doesn't want to release the server files.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44056347]I agree, but if they added the rcon commands to the patch notes then a majority of the servers would turn it off, which really doesn't help with alpha testing.
A majority of players are playing a slightly different game than everyone else with all of the mods that are out there, which, from what I understand, is exactly why Garry doesn't want to release the server files.[/QUOTE]
So he's not releasing the server files to stop modding eh? Why is there a 'modded server' tab? Was that added by these nefarious mods as well?
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44056347]I agree, but if they added the rcon commands to the patch notes then a majority of the servers would turn it off, which really doesn't help with alpha testing.
A majority of players are playing a slightly different game than everyone else with all of the mods that are out there, which, from what I understand, is exactly why Garry doesn't want to release the server files.[/QUOTE]
First, modding a server and changing an available config are two completely different things. I just want to be clear that we are talking about the latter, not the former.
When you release a configurable feature, the first configuration is typically just a first guess. Balancing features take time to see how they affect gameplay over the long haul. Letting server owners choose the configuration lets the community help zero in on where the right balance is to some degree.
Just the fact that it IS configurable would have curtailed some of the whining.
Currently as it stand durability is dropping waaaay to fast, this just makes the game a grind fest which no one likes. I have no problem with durability and think it should be in the game to resolve end game issues but this is just way to fast.
Also crappy tools should degrade faster then good tools, but right now it seems like there isn't much of a difference if any? Can anyone confirm how many hits a stone hatchet can take compared to a pickaxe?
All in all they just need to turn down the durability loss a little all it is doing is making the game more grindy then it already is.
[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;44056449]First, modding a server and changing an available config are two completely different things. I just want to be clear that we are talking about the latter, not the former.
When you release a configurable feature, the first configuration is typically just a first guess. Balancing features take time to see how they affect gameplay over the long haul. Letting server owners choose the configuration lets the community help zero in on where the right balance is to some degree.
Just the fact that it IS configurable would have curtailed some of the whining.[/QUOTE]
Again, I agree. And you're right, modding and configuring server.cfg are two different things but it still changes how people play from server to server and changes people's expectations.
From what I understand, the durability rate is much too high, lowering it will probably be a good call for most people. But are they going to lower it? Some of them will, absolutely. But most of them are going to turn it off altogether... which I don't think helps with anything.
For the tools, it really depends on what you were used to previously. The creating type on low pop servers are accustomed running the length of Hacker Valley alone with a single pickaxe. The PvP'ers are accustomed to having no limits on guns and many sitting on towers near small rad or roaming death squads. The durability change affects each group the same, they aren't able to maintain a certain playstyle they are familiar with.
Personally, I play on a server with 80-120 on at prime time and I find that my pickaxe lasted over an hour as I snuck around trying to resource; with any gun I've had, I was usually killed in a firefight well before it was completely destroyed.
I must be playing the game wrong somehow because I've had no issues so far. My first goal was to find and research a pickaxe, which solves most of the gathering issues quickly. I would suggest that anyone struggling with collecting resources take a look at how much you can gather in return for that hatchet/pickaxe. Try not to use your previous knowledge, since in all cases, the tools fall apart where they didn't before. But focus on the gathering quantities versus the repair/replacement costs. If you find yourself unable to replace items prior to their durability hitting zero, then you have a broken game mechanic. Otherwise, this is another aspect of the game that is being implemented that will be balanced over time.
The 'Dev's got it all wrong, I'm uninstalling' comments don't go very far in a constructive discussion about added mechanics. If you feel that way, uninstall and move on, but I would avoid any other 'Early Access' games if I were you. Rust, as it stands, is in its infancy. Gameplay will be radically different by the time this thing sees a release date. We have no idea what will happen over the development of this title. Try to offer something useful for the developers to sink their teeth into, make them think about why something is better other than, "They got it all wrong!"
I welcome durability as you can't have any scarcity if nothing ever breaks. There needs to be something worth working towards in the game, otherwise it will live and die as a sandbox builder/shooter for a small audience.
This is good that will make less people inconsiderate assholes who shoot fresh spawns for a torch bandage and rock
[QUOTE=Triax;44056524]For the tools, it really depends on what you were used to previously. The creating type on low pop servers are accustomed running the length of Hacker Valley alone with a single pickaxe. The PvP'ers are accustomed to having no limits on guns and many sitting on towers near small rad or roaming death squads. The durability change affects each group the same, they aren't able to maintain a certain playstyle they are familiar with.
Personally, I play on a server with 80-120 on at prime time and I find that my pickaxe lasted over an hour as I snuck around trying to resource and with any gun I had, I was usually killed in a firefight well before it was completely destroyed.
I must be playing the game wrong somehow because I've had no issues so far. My first goal was to find and research a pickaxe, which solves most of the gathering issues quickly. I would suggest that anyone struggling with collecting resources take a look at how much you can gather in return for that hatchet/pickaxe. Try not to use your previous knowledge, since in all cases, the tools fall apart where they didn't before. But focus on the gathering quantities versus the repair/replacement costs. If you find yourself unable to replace items prior to their durability hits zero, then you have a broken game mechanic. Otherwise, this is another aspect of the game that is being implemented that will be balanced over time.
The 'Dev's got it all wrong, I'm uninstalling' comments don't go very far in a constructive discussion about added mechanics. If you feel that way, uninstall and move on, but I would avoid any other 'Early Access' games if I were you. Rust, as it stands, is in its infancy. Gameplay will be radically different by the time this thing sees a release date. We have no idea what will happen over the development of this title. Try to offer something useful for the developers to sink their teeth into, make them think about why something is better other than, "They got it all wrong!"
I welcome durability as you can't have any scarcity if nothing ever breaks. There needs to be something worth working towards in the game, otherwise it will live and die as a sandbox builder/shooter for a small audience.[/QUOTE]
I think many people are playing on nearly empty servers with little to no threat from other players. They can run around from node to node all day long and not have to worry about a thing, so of course they'd break 10 pickaxes a day.
When every single node counts, when you have to gather under cover of darkness to not get murdered for your ore: THAT'S when the current durability rate makes sense.
Besides, even if your pickaxe only gets you 20 nodes, isn't that WAYYYY more than what's necessary to make 10 more pickaxes? Just because you can be flush with resources after an hour of game time anymore doesn't mean the mechanic is broken or unbalanced, it means the game is changing and you might just have to change with it.
In real life, guns are reliable for decades. In rust, guns are reliable for hours. (Rust Time) Please make tools last longer. It will just incur so much frustration from the players. Nobody has enough metal to make a new gun every half-hour.
[QUOTE=DGamer135;44056959]In real life, guns are reliable for decades. In rust, guns are reliable for hours. (Rust Time) Please make tools last longer. It will just incur so much frustration from the players. Nobody has enough metal to make a new gun every half-hour.[/QUOTE]
You have to remember though, none of us are playing Rust over the course of an entire lifetime, things have to be scaled down to fit. While a gun may last many decades in real life no one is going to put many decades into a video game.
Also if you have to make a new gun every half hour maybe think about not shooting your gun as often, use different weapons for different tasks or something. Get creative, change your strategy.
Too many people saying "I can't play the same way that I did two days ago, game is broken."
[QUOTE=DGamer135;44056959]..incur so much frustration from the players...[/QUOTE]
Who is frustrated other than those that like to keep the CoD-type gameplay in the game?
More importantly, the devs. could give a shit about the CoD types since they are twisting their game into something it was never intended to be.
This is a survival/leveling/building game with some PvP aspects, [I]depending on the population of your server[/I]. Those first three defining criteria will only get stronger and stronger as the game progresses, if you can't understand that then you can't be helped.
Honestly, Facepunch now has more than enough money to take the game wherever [B]they [/B]desire, and it sure as hell isn't going to be a brainless PvP slugfest with military-class weapons. Those that bought it for the PvP aspect alone are in for bitter disappointment as it progresses, but really, why should they care?
[QUOTE=DGamer135;44056959]In real life, guns are reliable for decades. In rust, guns are reliable for hours. (Rust Time) Please make tools last longer. It will just incur so much frustration from the players. Nobody has enough metal to make a new gun every half-hour.[/QUOTE]
Until the durability decay is turned town a bit, the only people it is going to hurt is the casual gamers who have 1-4 hours to play a night, as this hurts them the most as more of their time is now spent drumming up new tools.
I have no problem with the durability I think it just needs to be tuned a little, especially on the tools.
And as far as the argument goes for: Oh this will make people KOS less as its costing them durability. I think it will make people KOS more, as if you can get even 1 pickaxe off a noob, its worth your bullets time now. Also people will be fully looting noobs now more so then before.
Don't get me wrong I think durability is needed especially for the end game to prevent HUGE stashes of gear from occurring but I still think it needs to be tuned a lot.
There is no problem with this, it will slow down everything a bit. You shouldnt be able to build massive fortresses in 1 day of gameplay.
I ran around and collected a ton of resources last night, I'm on a low pop server so i was able to collect 250 Metal ore/Sulfur, and and over 1k wood with like 2-3 pick axes. I don't know what you guys are complaining for. I know that the resource haul i pulled in one run is far greater then that of someone on a high pop server. Nobody gets to gather that many resources untouched on a medium/high pop server, meaning you would never go through 2 pick axes in one resource run. If you are able to go through an entire pick axe in one run then that means you gained a lot of resources and can afford to repair or build a new one. Also used a pistol i found to kill many wolves and bears and it still has a lot of durability left. They wanted to decrease how much the better military weapons were used and that is exactly what they did. Get used it this is a survival game, not call of duty. They never intended to have everyone running around with machine guns killing each other all day that isn't what type of game this is.
[QUOTE=DGamer135;44056959]In real life, guns are reliable for decades. In rust, guns are reliable for hours. (Rust Time) Please make tools last longer. It will just incur so much frustration from the players. Nobody has enough metal to make a new gun every half-hour.[/QUOTE]
You have to remember that all of the guns in rust are homemade like the pistol and bolt action. All the models are temporary and will be changed eventually to the homemade counterpart. That is why this decay makes perfect sense a handmade gun wont last long.
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