The single biggest problem with this game right now: Admin Abuse (not just the kind you think, detai - Rust

[QUOTE=Zechs;43691293]Every time I see a thread like this I think of the people complaining like "Im a leach. I don't want to pay for a server but I want someone else to pay for one and dictate how they run things even though....Im a leach and Im not contributing a single penny towards it." Stop with the ridiculous garbage already.[/QUOTE] Not sure why I reason with someone who clearly hasn't read anything but the post title, but here goes. This game has sold in the hundreds of thousands of copies, and millions of dollars worth of sales, yet there are enough official servers for about 1000 people. This game is clearly being run around the idea that they will not be providing official servers. If they do, something is wrong, because they have provided a 100% online requirement game, with no servers.

I actually like the idea of being able to see the commands an admin runs, especially spawning items. i have had issues with admins reimbursing players who claim they got "hacked" and raided, or when the server wiped all buildings etc everyone on at the time was given a ton of materials to rebuild, the problem being he gave some people 1,000 low quality metal while he gave others just wood. Has made it so some people have very large nearly impossible metal bases to raid way before anyone had even started acquiring C4.

[QUOTE=Dreldan;43691779]I actually like the idea of being able to see the commands an admin runs, especially spawning items. i have had issues with admins reimbursing players who claim they got "hacked" and raided, or when the server wiped all buildings etc everyone on at the time was given a ton of materials to rebuild, the problem being he gave some people 1,000 low quality metal while he gave others just wood. Has made it so some people have very large nearly impossible metal bases to raid way before anyone had even started acquiring C4.[/QUOTE] I would definitely go for that if it was up to me. Anything that is happening on the server that is by magic should be public.

As a server owner/admin I would love to have this feature, I have a zero admin abuse policy on my server but its still a constant struggle to keep the player base on my server from screaming admin abuse any time they get killed, raided or plundered. 108.61.10.34:29515

This goes both ways, as was said before. Our server has been recently plagued with a few select people trolling our advertisement thread forums, redit posts even joining in game and calling admin abuse because some of the group they associate with was banned for racism, and a few for duping. The fact that people toss the word admin abuse around so lightly in rust servers in general makes me cringe. A group of 5 people can easily ruin a servers population just by creating rumors of admin abuse. Hell anyone can. I could grab a group of my friends visit some of the more populated servers and play on them for a day getting players to like us and our group with the intent ruining its reputation the next day by saying admins abused there power and raided us with spawned in items. Or whatever the hell I want to say to discredit the admin. Its so easy, because people are that gullible to believe anyone says the sky is falling. I seen this when DayZ servers first popped up and now with Rust. But its much worse here.

[QUOTE=Dreldan;43691779]I actually like the idea of being able to see the commands an admin runs, especially spawning items. i have had issues with admins reimbursing players who claim they got "hacked" and raided, or when the server wiped all buildings etc everyone on at the time was given a ton of materials to rebuild, the problem being he gave some people 1,000 low quality metal while he gave others just wood. Has made it so some people have very large nearly impossible metal bases to raid way before anyone had even started acquiring C4.[/QUOTE] Just to note, you seem to know about all this info, so at least he was being transparent. I am not saying admins should not be allowed to do that, I am saying there should be an option for admin transparency to be automatic, but not required.

how about some kind of up / down vote buttons for each server?

[QUOTE=Crashty;43691894]how about some kind of up / down vote buttons for each server?[/QUOTE] I like the idea, as an addition, but not as a solution.

[QUOTE=TexRob;43691862]Just to note, you seem to know about all this info, so at least he was being transparent. I am not saying admins should not be allowed to do that, I am saying there should be an option for admin transparency to be automatic, but not required.[/QUOTE] I heard about it from the other players i talked to on the server. You see when i started i was on the server for only about a week and hadn't really made any friends or contacts, when the houses got wiped the admin tried to give me stuff for reimbursement without me even asking, but my inventory was full because i was in the habit of always logging out with my most valuables (sleepers off during the week) I had logged out with my own 700 ish low quality metal i had gathered and was getting ready to build a metal house. I didn't ask for reimbursement for all my guns or any of that stuff instead i just went and built a metal house. About a week after the wipe i started talking around and speaking with others and i found out many were given thousands of low quality metal and some were also given thousands of wood planks which i didn't have to to be told because the size of metal houses that popped up a day after a server wipe made it pretty obvious. This wasn't until weeks after the wipe that Once i've invested this much time into something, something i actually worked for and wasn't handed to me by admin i didn't just want to walk away. Then i had some young kids who lived near me get raided (this was just last week) they instantly claimed hackers because none of their walls were blown out, well i was contacted by the raiders and they said they replaced the walls which i've also done in the past just to cause confusion so people don't understand how someone got in or make them think it was an inside job. Well the admin started giving them stuff again because he believed their story of being hacked with out even asking around or having any proof there was any foul play. Yea i don't think admin transparency should be required, they do pay for the server and have the right to do what ever they want. It would be another advantage for a server and people could actively look for admin transparent servers if they wanted.

I'd like to own a server at some point and I agree with the OP in the sense that people could do better, be more fair, and that we need checks and balances to keep things going well. It doesn't just happen all by it self if left in the hands of 14-24+ yr olds. If they we're to add some measure of tracking admin actions, why just shoot it down? Why not? Anyone who can't see the reasoning for some fix might not care and may act as these crappy admins act. In this game more than any other I've played, admins taking advantage over the community is rampant.

Sounds like something that could be added to a mod like oxide. Try pitching your idea there. [url]http://forum.rustoxide.com/resources/[/url]

I have been banned from 10-15 servers from admins who are quick to pull the trigger. There are a lot of admins who aren't familiar enough with the game to properly moderate a server. I'm not blaming them, I'm simply stating that they don't understand this game well enough to ban people for cheating. I have 400 hours invested into this game since it came to steam and probably 80 more when it was still browser based. This game is in alpha and there are still a lot of problems. I understand how most cheats work. The only cheat that you can truly ban beyond a reasonable doubt is the speed hack. I have been an admin on a server for a little over a week. Let me start by telling you this; It's impossible to please everybody. If your server gets remotely popular, you will have no free time if they figure out your steam name. If somebody sent us a pm in game and said somebody was cheating, we would drop what we were doing and go follow the suspected cheater around for 15-30 minutes or until we saw a blatant cheat (speedhack). That being said, aimbotters are very difficult to find. Some people are better at this game than others. Headshots really aren't difficult to land in this game. Just remember. Starting over is a lot of fun in Rust. Don't get disappointed if you get raided. Cheaters suck, but they're not going anywhere. Give the admins some slack. Not all of them are bad, and it really does require a lot of time and effort to be a good admin.

We have 25-30 players every night. 5 admins, Rust++ admins so they cannot abuse (only kick/ban). pm me if you want the info.

When it comes to playing on servers, and admin abuse, I don't understand the problem here. I've invested 200 hours in the game. Never had a problem with an admin. I've played on 10 servers. Never been banned or kicked. The owner of the server I play on now has made me an admin. The first time I ever met this server owner is in the game Rust. He lives in America and I live in Japan. Am I just lucky, or is it possible that maybe you could be doing something differently? I don't want to say anyone's methods are wrong, just that they don't seem to be producing the results that you want. Maybe try a different approach?

Building some form of "admin accountability" feature into the game is a waste of dev time and resources for all concerned. Why? Because for every good admin that uses the feature, there will be another who has configured a further mod on their server to mask, block or otherwise hide the fact that they are abusing the system but want to hide the fact from their players. It's an arms race that you cannot win with new features, and by shutting features down the people that are most penalised are those admins that use those features for the purposes of building a community on their own servers. I've been lucky, I've never run into an abusive admin, but I have played on servers with non-existent ones, which left them getting pretty bad. I got around the system by picking up my own server, and the problems resolved itself. Suspect players get investigated and banned where needed. The admin only uses his powers to investigate and ban players, and the most dangerous player on the server is the one that keeps pretending he owns the server, and really doesn't realise that his BS claims are being logged by the system and checked daily by the owner, along with everything else.

The best advice to give any owner/admin running a rust server is to not play. Do not have friends who play. Do not associate with the people who join the public TS that play rust. Have 0 contact with them and moderate for hackers/exploits and that is it. That is the only true way to not be accused of admin abuse. The minute you break any of these rules you are considered by the community a admin abuser.

This goes both ways, honestly. I play on a buddy's server, and both he and I have admin privileges. It's apparently admin abuse to fairly kill someone, and I am responsible for returning their items in a fair firefight, but if I get killed, "lol, your friends are admins, just go spawn yourself your stuff back." There are 4000+ servers. At least one has good admins. Cut your losses, hop servers for a bit until you find a good one.

[QUOTE=eSully;43697748]I have been banned from 10-15 servers from admins who are quick to pull the trigger. There are a lot of admins who aren't familiar enough with the game to properly moderate a server. I'm not blaming them, I'm simply stating that they don't understand this game well enough to ban people for cheating. I have 400 hours invested into this game since it came to steam and probably 80 more when it was still browser based. This game is in alpha and there are still a lot of problems. I understand how most cheats work. The only cheat that you can truly ban beyond a reasonable doubt is the speed hack. I have been an admin on a server for a little over a week. Let me start by telling you this; It's impossible to please everybody. If your server gets remotely popular, you will have no free time if they figure out your steam name. If somebody sent us a pm in game and said somebody was cheating, we would drop what we were doing and go follow the suspected cheater around for 15-30 minutes or until we saw a blatant cheat (speedhack). That being said, aimbotters are very difficult to find. Some people are better at this game than others. Headshots really aren't difficult to land in this game. Just remember. Starting over is a lot of fun in Rust. Don't get disappointed if you get raided. Cheaters suck, but they're not going anywhere. Give the admins some slack. Not all of them are bad, and it really does require a lot of time and effort to be a good admin.[/QUOTE] With your background, what do you think of my proposed idea then? Basically just a system that can show your players that you aren't doing anything irresponsible, so you don't have to listen to those complaints? [editline]28th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DrNoesis;43698367]Building some form of "admin accountability" feature into the game is a waste of dev time and resources for all concerned. Why? Because for every good admin that uses the feature, there will be another who has configured a further mod on their server to mask, block or otherwise hide the fact that they are abusing the system but want to hide the fact from their players. It's an arms race that you cannot win with new features, and by shutting features down the people that are most penalised are those admins that use those features for the purposes of building a community on their own servers. I've been lucky, I've never run into an abusive admin, but I have played on servers with non-existent ones, which left them getting pretty bad. I got around the system by picking up my own server, and the problems resolved itself. Suspect players get investigated and banned where needed. The admin only uses his powers to investigate and ban players, and the most dangerous player on the server is the one that keeps pretending he owns the server, and really doesn't realise that his BS claims are being logged by the system and checked daily by the owner, along with everything else.[/QUOTE] Let me restate, in a nutshell, what you just said. There should be no police because bad people are going to do bad things anyway. Police are a deterrent, not a solution, same with an option to police the actions of the admin. You also failed to read my points where I never said this option should restrict their abilities, not once. I said it should merely record all admin actions, spawn item, teleport, ban, kick, etc.

[QUOTE=Grinning;43689895]If you want -f-a-i-r- servers without admin -a-b-u-s-e-, play on an official server[/QUOTE] FTFY. Well, would have if strikeout worked :p [QUOTE=Shadow Walker;43700038]The best advice to give any owner/admin running a rust server is to not play. Do not have friends who play. Do not associate with the people who join the public TS that play rust. Have 0 contact with them and moderate for hackers/exploits and that is it. That is the only true way to not be accused of admin abuse. The minute you break any of these rules you are considered by the community a admin abuser.[/QUOTE] Yeesh! That sounds pretty freakin boring. I started my own server because I got tired of either admin abuse, unchecked cheaters, or servers suddenly disappearing after putting in days/weeks of effort into them. Not once have I been accused of admin abuse, because I actually communicate with my players and they know how I roll - and they know I only ever use legit items myself, despite the fact that in my admin capacity I will often spawn in C4 to help others correct building mistakes and such. Thankfully nowadays we have excellent mods which make it possible instead to just shoot to demolish misplaced pillars/foundations/etc after putting in an admin code though ;) Even then, I just used about 1,300 pillars today on an event building (9x14x10, or 1260 rooms in size!), so if server rating was in any way based on number of spawned-in items, I'd be rooted haha :)

[QUOTE=Gliktch;43700606]FTFY. Well, would have if strikeout worked :p Yeesh! That sounds pretty freakin boring. I started my own server because I got tired of either admin abuse, unchecked cheaters, or servers suddenly disappearing after putting in days/weeks of effort into them. Not once have I been accused of admin abuse, because I actually communicate with my players and they know how I roll - and they know I only ever use legit items myself, despite the fact that in my admin capacity I will often spawn in C4 to help others correct building mistakes and such. Thankfully nowadays we have excellent mods which make it possible instead to just shoot to demolish misplaced pillars/foundations/etc after putting in an admin code though ;) Even then, I just used about 1,300 pillars today on an event building (9x14x10, or 1260 rooms in size!), so if server rating was in any way based on number of spawned-in items, I'd be rooted haha :)[/QUOTE] Just as Gliktch says; find a server where there is an admin who talks to players. [B]A known admin is one of the most effective methods of detouring any misbehaving[/B]. This being said, as an admin I get bugged all the damn time for "Can you TP me, my friend, my crew?" or "Can I get a <desired loot>?" I created a steam page to help talk to people when I'm not only, I would imagine others have done something similar. If you want to join our community send me a PM or search for Tallios Server on steam or Rust servers.

[QUOTE=TexRob;43689311]Ok, so I know we've all seen dozens, hundreds even, of these threads, but I'd like to make sure the developers know that this needs to be a priority on their Trello list. I encourage people in this thread to discuss the issue, and come up with how to solve it. My story is that I'm 36, have been online gaming since Doom on dialup and not once used a cheat. I've played on a handful of servers, and on almost all of them, some form of admin abuse has been a problem, or claims of admin abuse. Be it spawning items, kicking people for being good, kicking people for confusing game issues with hacks (rubberbanding), helping friends by spying, or players claiming good admins are abusing, etc. Just last night I was banned from a server because my name resembled another players name, as well as the player, because he changed it in response to my name. I had been running around the server with him, and he was not using any cheats that I could tell. They banned him of super jumping, but it was just rubberbanding and admins who apparently have never seen a lagging user before. What they need to add, or this problem is just going to get worse, is some sort of tracking system that is an option for servers to enable. It needs to tell players when the admins use any sort of admin ability. It needs to require the admin to list a reason why someone is banned and tell the users when someone is banned. All of these things should be alerts in game, but also it needs to be logged, so that if you log back into the server after some time, you can see what the admins have done. This list could get big, so you need filters for "spawn item" "banned user" etc. I know this game is in Alpha, I get it, but this problem is only going to get worse. It is not just some isolated issue, and if you haven't seen any signs of it yet, tell me what server you're playing on. Even the best servers people constantly scream admin abuse, which is almost as bad, because it becomes the boy who cried wolf. There has to be a way to know for sure. EDIT: I fixed some typos, and edited it because I realized I was not clear that I think this should be an option that servers can run, basically something to add to their title "Rust++ admin tracking, PVP/doorshare..." along those lines. Admins would not be required to run it, but it would be something players who want that accountability for admins, could choose to play on.[/QUOTE] You're going to find Admin abuse in every Multiplayer game that is free ran. Garrys Mod, Counter Strike, Team Fortress 2, DayZ, Minecraft, Call of Duty, BattleField, Medal of Honor, etc. Games which people can pay money to own their own server. IF you don't like being abused by admins then go play on a none modded server. Now, there are plenty of servers where Admins do not abuse, as i play on one. I never find abuse on this server. If Garry wants he can easily make this game like League of Legends, or World of Warcraft etc. Removing freedoms of owning your own server and modding you server the way you'd like. We could all just log into a server that cannot be moderated 24/7. We play build a house and a new hack just releases now all the hackers spring up and destroy all that you've worked for. Now you have to take the time make a video and post it on Facepunch forums. Facepunch will be overwhelmed with thousands of posts about hackers. VaC Catches hackers, but not instantly it takes time and it doesn't take a lot of time for a hacker to kill you take all your stuff and grief the server if they want. I get angry at the abusing admins on some servers. But if you really want to stay away from that stuff just play on servers that Rust offers. I don't want and i don't think others want this game to turn into WarZ/Infestation.

[QUOTE=Tallios;43700820]as an admin I get bugged all the damn time for "Can you TP me, my friend, my crew?" or "Can I get a <desired loot>?"[/QUOTE] The answer to that is to have clear (and clearly communicated) rules and limitations on what admin(s) will and won't do for players. In my server, new players each get a free teleport to any other player who agrees to it (either mates/groups/clan teaming up, or just an established player being decent and helping out a newbie). While I've bent that rule a little - like if a group member gets owned by a zombie before they can place their (1 free to all players) sleeping bag - players know they won't get an arbitrary tp from me. There has to be a good reason, e.g., stuck or otherwise bugged; otherwise I'll remind then they can either walk or suicide. There's a running joke with some of the regulars, that I'll teleport them into the sea if they ask for a tp ;) I've also implemented a basic credits system, with an accessible pricelist, to counter the second request you mentioned. Basically, they can buy any of the things off their starting crafting list, or basic resources, along with leather suit parts at fairly hefty prices (equivalent of about 100 planks) - we're a 'hard' server, top items very rare, and all of them (weapons, weapon mods, Kevlar) are uncraftable. I must be doing something right, however, since even though I've barely started, only been running a couple of weeks, just wiped items (for the first and probably last time) a few days ago, and have barely 6-11 people on during peak and easily 0-2 offpeak... I've already been given $102 in donations, all in the past 3 days, despite the fact that donators still don't get to buy guns, c4 or Kevlar. They get credits for resources, as well as being able to purchase perks, such as a floating sky base (only 7 stories up, no huge raid deterrent, just looks cool - comes with unlimited teleports up/down from base only; costs $22 worth of credits), once-a-real-day teleport back-to-base from anywhere (costs about $10 worth of credits for a month), and so on. It shows a lot of faith/trust for them to bank on me keeping the server going, thankfully I will be delivering on that expectation and making site they get their money's worth - and the server will always be geared towards those who like a challenge :)

I find it disgusting how people in this thread are saying right off the bat, irrelevant to the post, that the admins can do anything. [B]Yes mongoloids, we know that.[/B] OP is suggesting a server type where the admins who have nothing to hide can prove they have nothing to hide by adding a server log. Server owners can see what admins do, its all logged, so essentially players could be given the same privilege. In fact, this is actually the best suggestion i have seen thus far on this subject.

[QUOTE=eSully;43697748]I have been banned from 10-15 servers from admins who are quick to pull the trigger. There are a lot of admins who aren't familiar enough with the game to properly moderate a server. I'm not blaming them, I'm simply stating that they don't understand this game well enough to ban people for cheating. I have 400 hours invested into this game since it came to steam and probably 80 more when it was still browser based. This game is in alpha and there are still a lot of problems. I understand how most cheats work. The only cheat that you can truly ban beyond a reasonable doubt is the speed hack. I have been an admin on a server for a little over a week. Let me start by telling you this; It's impossible to please everybody. If your server gets remotely popular, you will have no free time if they figure out your steam name. If somebody sent us a pm in game and said somebody was cheating, we would drop what we were doing and go follow the suspected cheater around for 15-30 minutes or until we saw a blatant cheat (speedhack). That being said, aimbotters are very difficult to find. Some people are better at this game than others. Headshots really aren't difficult to land in this game. Just remember. Starting over is a lot of fun in Rust. Don't get disappointed if you get raided. Cheaters suck, but they're not going anywhere. Give the admins some slack. Not all of them are bad, and it really does require a lot of time and effort to be a good admin.[/QUOTE] I own one of the most popular modded servers in the list currently. When i am online the only thing i can do is be an admin. It has gotten to the point that i cannot play rust on my own server because someone is getting griefed, hacked, or the occasional please admin give me x of this item... So i just stay invisible and when i see people complaining in chat about things i just teleport around and keep watch throw supply signals or call in airdrops to start wars. As for catching hackers... The aimbot is obvious if you have death messages enabled and know what you are looking for. You can also pay attention to their bullet spread as there is a huge difference between the way a hacker shoots and the way a non hacker shoots. Speed hacks are very obvious and lately I have been catching people flying (Not super jump but actually flying). My server now has 6 pages of bans on record with only a few of those being non hacking players (3 exactly) who were banned for other reasons. Oh and if i trapped you in a wood shelter and put a door on it... i am sorry :) I will always let you out!!!