There are a limited number of servers we can assess from Australia with ping below 250-300. I appreciate that you are a responsible community moderator and have tried many lower ping community servers. However I have also seen widespread admin abuse on community servers. Facepunch is even running a poll on this issue. For example on Vanrust the admin gave out multiple airdrops to donators and banned me when I complained. But I get your point, it's broken, live with it or go away. Facepunch need to remove the warning about being banned for abuse. Public chat is a reflection of the appalling attitudes of many male gamers who have swum in the filth for so long they think it's normal.
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[U]To summarise this thread today.[/U]
Do Facepunch oppose violent and discriminatory talk on public chat? Yes
Do they say they may ban abusive players? Yes
Is there a mechanism by which this is reported and implemented? No
Is this a problem to the community? No
What is the solution? I should stop being too sensitive and go away.
Solved, thank you to the participants.
One last thought: Where else is it acceptable to threaten to assault, kill or rape people because of their race, gender or orientation, besides Aryan Nation barbecues of course?
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49584469]One thing I would like to point out is all these people who are so concerned with the content of a chat forum, are also playing a game where nudity and dismemberment are not only an feature but essentially a large portion of the game. Within a graphic game such as rust how can you not expect the communication to at least be equally as graphic.
I'd like to tell people to just stop caring what others say you know that whole concept we learned grade school, but earlier I spoke in my last post regarding lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated and how such an individual cannot be changed, which is why I'm going to take my own advice here and say good luck with the debate ;)[/QUOTE]
You must have been away on the day when they covered bullying, or did your school promote the idea that if you ignore it, it will go away. As you say in an above post, if we try to protect people, like domestic violence victims, our wives might drown our children. A quote you say that is from a wise man!! Jesus wept mate, I do not even begin to understand where you are coming from but I will also leave it at that.
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE='[Jake];49582269']People are assholes when they get to hide behind computer screens.
I don't think this should be moderated by anyone other than the server admin(s).[/QUOTE]
My point is that Facepunch have no intention of moderating the public servers and I am provoking discussion about what to do about extreme abuse on public chat given that. I get the message about what to do: nothing. I doubt Gary even considered this issue but rather it has grown organically with the game. They see themselves as focussed on developing the game and even thought EAC would handle the cheating issues, it didn't of course. Maybe there is room to develop a Rust match making service: Do you hate niggers, chinks.... if someone annoys you do you - threaten to kill them, threaten to rape them to death etc.
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Poppadomus;49583958]Your argument is invalid, players are still going to create signs saying "Nigger".
:cry: This is the internets, please don't censor it... It's the last place free speech still exists.[/QUOTE]
Why do we regulate behaviour? To protect people from people. That's why we have laws, Bills of Rights etc.
Rights have responsibilities irl.
What you want, I suspect, is rights without responsibilities that anonymity gives you.
I'm not even talking about the 'internets' [sic] I'm only discussing public chat in Rust and some way to deal with extreme abuse.
By all means main the barricades to protect the freedom to threaten people in public chat in an online game, you may one day rank with Mandela and Lincoln in stature.
Other than disabling chat, wouldn't an option to mute players provide a fix? Further, blanking signs. I saw someones phone number and address with a bunch of filth accompanying it.
I'll admit I've only skimmed most of the thread... have you already taken a screenshot of the hatespeech and forwarded it Facepunch? That might produce nothing, but you'd at least put the impetus on them to investigate. You can't expect them to sift through chat logs proactively when they apparently barely have the time to restart the servers, but if they receive reports from several players they may respond by looking up Steam ID's. That would be more productive than berating posters who probably don't make racist comments, on a forum the developers only rarely read.
Even though I don't like that some people are just straight up rude for no reason and will say some nasty things they're still free to do it and if there's no admin they will profit from that because they're behind the screen and they're usually just kids from all around the word that learnt the words "fuck, bitch, motherfucker" from the movies and they just use them because they think they're cool. Just remove the chat, report them and carry on with your game. I guess in real life you don't ask for safe spaces and other non-sense like that right ? you either leave the area if someone swears at you, talk back or maybe you resort to more than words :D
[QUOTE=Murdo;49586600]I'll admit I've only skimmed most of the thread... have you already taken a screenshot of the hatespeech and forwarded it Facepunch? That might produce nothing, but you'd at least put the impetus on them to investigate. You can't expect them to sift through chat logs proactively when they apparently barely have the time to restart the servers, but if they receive reports from several players they may respond by looking up Steam ID's. That would be more productive than berating posters who probably don't make racist comments, on a forum the developers only rarely read.[/QUOTE]
Done the above. Nothing. I'm not berating. If you bothered to read what you comment on you would see I am saying since there is no moderation and won't be, maybe the only practical solution is to use 'V' instead of a public chat. I'm not talking about swearing, I'm talking about extreme threats of violence because of race and gender. But I understand the general attitude here "yo Rosa Parks get off the bus if ya don't like it".
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;49586774]Even though I don't like that some people are just straight up rude for no reason and will say some nasty things they're still free to do it and if there's no admin they will profit from that because they're behind the screen and they're usually just kids from all around the word that learnt the words "fuck, bitch, motherfucker" from the movies and they just use them because they think they're cool. Just remove the chat, report them and carry on with your game. I guess in real life you don't ask for safe spaces and other non-sense like that right ? you either leave the area if someone swears at you, talk back or maybe you resort to more than words :D[/QUOTE]
I am not talking about swearing, 'fuck' I don't give a 'fucking shit' about it. I'm talking about extreme hate against asian players and girls, among other groups. Read my examples above. As for safe places I don't know what you mean. Is it an underground room where yo 'prep' for the Apocalypse? These sorts of threats in your 'real life' would get you arrested. If Facepunch won't moderation, disable and use 'V'.
saying "chink" or "nigger" in real life would get you arrested ? that must be a rough place. As many others said, report them and mute the chat, there's really nothing more that can be done or go on community servers, most of the populated ones are legit and maybe 10% of the admins are abusive, harder to find many in AU but I'm sure there are some good ones there too.
Join a server with admins that stop that shit. If your going to play on a facepunch server your in for a shitty ride. It's like mad fucking max fucking your dead aunt in the shit hole and popping shoots at your hoe Ass on a facepunch server. If you can't take it, don't play on the servers. Join a modded server.
No one is going to care. And the devs are not going to stop what they are doing for something so silly. You have the power to play on your terms. Don't like it, then don't play the game
[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;49587898]saying "chink" or "nigger" in real life would get you arrested ? that must be a rough place. As many others said, report them and mute the chat, there's really nothing more that can be done or go on community servers, most of the populated ones are legit and maybe 10% of the admins are abusive, harder to find many in AU but I'm sure there are some good ones there too.[/QUOTE]
I did not say using that language or swearing would get you arrested, I'm saying vile hateful threats would. Did you even read all the posts?
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=raz r23;49588333]Join a server with admins that stop that shit. If your going to play on a facepunch server your in for a shitty ride. It's like mad fucking max fucking your dead aunt in the shit hole and popping shoots at your hoe Ass on a facepunch server. If you can't take it, don't play on the servers. Join a modded server. No one is going to care. And the devs are not going to stop what they are doing for something so silly. You have the power to play on your terms. Don't like it, then don't play the game[/QUOTE]
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=raz r23;49588333]Join a server with admins that stop that shit. If your going to play on a facepunch server your in for a shitty ride. It's like mad fucking max fucking your dead aunt in the shit hole and popping shoots at your hoe Ass on a facepunch server. If you can't take it, don't play on the servers. Join a modded server.
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
Well someone cares, you bothered to put your two cents in. My point is I play official servers because I have been unable to find a low ping community servers from Australia where the admins don't abuse their position. [U]Did you even bother to read the above posts[/U] and think about what was said? I don't care if you say I fuck my sister and my mother is a whore. It was the abusive and threatening ganging up on asian players and towards the few girls players that I am addressing. But what the fuck, I'm a white male like you guys, the gooks and bitches get what they deserve right!
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
The general consensus then is that it's ok that Facepunch enable vile abuse and threats on public chat and you don't give a damn.
Gary doesn't care what you say in his forums.
I don't understand why the gaming community has such a poor reputation and girls largely give up on online gaming!
Mind you, I bet you don't say these view to girlfriends, wives, non-white friends etc. The anonymity of the 'internets' seems to bring out a scary nasty side of human nature, but wtf lets go pawn some noobs right.
We get you don't appreciate the apathy. I don't appreciate it either, but it's realistic. Facepunch has signaled their unwillingness to ensure the official servers are actively maintained at this stage in development, and if that's the case it's hopeless idealism to expect chat moderation. We regularly call them out on it... but what else would you like the players here to do? We vote with our feet by not playing on the official servers. Rust is extremely hands-off, each server is an island... to the point that you can barely get 5 people to agree that an admin spawning in C4 is considered "abuse". There's no easy fix. Chat has a purpose when desired, and the same shit could easily be propagated through signs and "V" local mic's.
You screencapped racist hatespeech and RL threats, you brought it to the attention of Facepunch... good. Get others to do the same... I would have were I there. You're well within your rights to challenge them publicly on their manner of response. The people on this message board, though appearing apathetic, pessimistic and sometimes dismissive, have given you the one single solitary piece of help they have available to them: the advice to stay away from un-admin'd official servers. Yes, even at the expense of ping times. Those who play online games, despite the vile trolling virgins and their swastikas and remarks about sex they haven't had and won't anytime soon, are not willing to support imposing broad and generic restrictions on free speech. We'd rather server owners set local standards clearly, and then act on them decisively.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who sympathizes with your disgust, while simultaneously becoming fed up with your outrageous hyperbole and implied accusations and shrill "fuck you all!!!"'s. Direct your outrage to the people in charge... and feel free to choose not to return to this vile nest of sociopaths who inexplicably choose not to boycott the game and march on Walsall England over trolls on a server we don't visit.
I was just highlighting a problem and suggesting that public chat is the issue. Isn't the Facepunch forum the place for this? I won't apologise for raising the issue. As for hyperbole and accusations, I directly address each post, if you read these into my reply then that's in your head not mine. As for "fuck you all" what are you talking about? I never said that. I knew I was in for a hiding on the forum but felt such disgust at the attack on the Korean players the other day I felt I couldn't ignore it. I appreciate that you and others like Foxcroft recognise and repudiate the behaviours; but other don't think it's a problem or don't care. Anyhow I'll retreat now to my vegan community server now and sew a patch on our peace blanket!
To summarize: Racist/Hate filled chat should never be tolerated but due to the nature of the game it needs to be moderated by an actual person...
This means that until Facepunch decide to look after their own servers [This includes the significant amount of downtime we see people complaining about in here all the time] then simply just avoid them.
There is a difference between shit talking and generally being the type of person that is holding humanity back. If you want to avoid the latter then simply jump through some community servers until you find one you like.
Nobody is defending the racists and other intolerables on the official servers, but there isn't much we can do and it feels like at times Facepunch don't even know these servers exist.
[QUOTE=Ruztzilla;49588503]
Mind you, I bet you don't say these view to girlfriends, wives, non-white friends etc. The anonymity of the 'internets' seems to bring out a scary nasty side of human nature, but wtf lets go pawn some noobs right.[/QUOTE]
Who said that they condone such behavior ? we're just realistic here, report is the way to do it and beating on the dead horse won't help, you're just trying to get into an argument. This isn't the report forum. Report them on steam or even try to write a ticket if you really want to [url]http://support.facepunchstudios.com/new-ticket[/url].
Are you the type that feels he is a white privileged male and that his race are the monsters that have to punish themselves or what? can't help but notice you mentioning how the poor girls and non-white people are threatened and they need protection like they're some kids. Girls don't give up on games because some 12y olds call them whores but because most just don't enjoy this type of game, that's all it is.
[QUOTE=joejoejoey04;49589148]To summarize: Racist/Hate filled chat should never be tolerated but due to the nature of the game it needs to be moderated by an actual person...
This means that until Facepunch decide to look after their own servers [This includes the significant amount of downtime we see people complaining about in here all the time] then simply just avoid them.
There is a difference between shit talking and generally being the type of person that is holding humanity back. If you want to avoid the latter then simply jump through some community servers until you find one you like.
Nobody is defending the racists and other intolerables on the official servers, but there isn't much we can do and it feels like at times Facepunch don't even know these servers exist.[/QUOTE]
A fair summary I think joejoejoey04. I will leave this forum thread at that, it's just turning into an attack on me rather than discussion of should public chat be disabled until moderated.
For example [below] on my 'type' and insulting labeling like I'm a 'white privileged male' who thinks his own race are 'monsters'. I mean wtf? I would like to think that person is shitposting but I think it actually just represents the problem with a minority toxic element in this community
[QUOTE=Ruztzilla;49590281]A fair summary I think joejoejoey04. I will leave this forum thread at that, it's just turning into an attack on me rather than discussion of should public chat be disabled until moderated.
For example [below] on my 'type' and insulting labeling like I'm a 'white privileged male' who thinks his own race are 'monsters'. I mean wtf? I would like to think that person is shitposting but I think it actually just represents the problem with a minority toxic element in this community[/QUOTE]
I think the main problem here is just that disabling chat is just a bs fucking suggestion and people get a bit annoyed at your extremely sensitive self.
[QUOTE=Zushakon;49590611]people get a bit annoyed at your extremely sensitive self.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. His statements are valid and prompted a thorough discussion.
A lot of people had something meaningful to bring to this thread.
[QUOTE=SniperVillan;49593344]I disagree. His statements are valid and prompted a thorough discussion.
A lot of people had something meaningful to bring to this thread.[/QUOTE]
Thanks SniperVillan for support there. I think the problem is that I was trying to provoke discussion and ideas, whereas all Zushakon and others can do is give a reactionary 'bs' and label anything they don't like e.g. 'extremely sensitive self'. It was about how to deal with chat if it was not moderated, but they played the person not the topic. I don't even think it is necessarily the right idea, but rather it is an option until Facepunch can moderate servers. Some people addressed the topic and said it was useful for newbies etc, and I don't disagree. As for 'extremely sensitive' I question what man could stand by when a female player was told she would be 'raped to death and be ok with it. As for some who say girls don't like the game, so don't play, my own 18 yo daughter used to play Rust with me but gave up after constant abusive and obscene suggestions/language. If there are any women in some of the posters lives I suggest they discuss it with them for an alternative view. Strangely the posters who see the idea as restricting freedom are also the same people who question why it is raised, and say move on, nobody cares. Freedom for things they agree with I suppose.
You see this a lot in other games too, or on social media.
Reddit shut down a bunch of racist fora a while ago and realized they let things go too far without moderation. Twitter has had the same problem with griefers and online stalkers and is doing serious efforts to cut that down as well.
At some point Facepunch will have to do something about this as well if they want to attract and keep new players of all sexes and races in Rust.
Being able to report people for unacceptable behavior would be one way to do that. An admin can later go over the server logs and actions of someone who has been reported and see if the claims are legit.
No need for active admins 24/7 that way. Those admins could be facepunch people or trusted community people. I read that Counter Strike GO has an elaborate system where people in the community screen recorded live footage to identify hackers and cheaters. Doing this with chat logs is far easier.
An effective punishment would be to ban playing from the official servers. It's a Steam game after all, so the ban could even be for all servers.
One MMORPG (can't remember which one) had a particularly funny way of dealing with the worst players. They where banned to play on a "Purgatory-server", with all the other assholes for a certain amount of time. :)
[QUOTE=n3wjack;49595970]You see this a lot in other games too, or on social media.
Reddit shut down a bunch of racist fora a while ago and realized they let things go too far without moderation. Twitter has had the same problem with griefers and online stalkers and is doing serious efforts to cut that down as well.
At some point Facepunch will have to do something about this as well if they want to attract and keep new players of all sexes and races in Rust.
Being able to report people for unacceptable behavior would be one way to do that. An admin can later go over the server logs and actions of someone who has been reported and see if the claims are legit.
No need for active admins 24/7 that way. Those admins could be facepunch people or trusted community people. I read that Counter Strike GO has an elaborate system where people in the community screen recorded live footage to identify hackers and cheaters. Doing this with chat logs is far easier.
An effective punishment would be to ban playing from the official servers. It's a Steam game after all, so the ban could even be for all servers.
One MMORPG (can't remember which one) had a particularly funny way of dealing with the worst players. They where banned to play on a "Purgatory-server", with all the other assholes for a certain amount of time. :)[/QUOTE]
Some interesting suggestions. I understand that Facepunch are a small company and see game development as their primary role but I think as the community has grown they do need to recognize the need to do something about toxic abuse , whether it's block chat, only have community servers, your suggestions or something else. Thank you for your constructive ideas n3wjack.
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