Rust's current state of development. - Rust

When you are a developer, one of the most annoying things that can happen is when someone who is not a developer wants to tell you how to suck eggs, and specifically how long it should take.

[QUOTE=utilitron;44360042]Helk is working of the farming system. This will take time. The new guy Andre is working on procedural terrain/resource spawning. There are pictures of his progress every few days. Including new ones today. Garry is working on the item manager. Tom is working on adding new rock meshes for Andre. Daniel is working on bear traps. Rob is working on icons/new ui. There is progress posted every day or two except on the weekends. Calm down.[/QUOTE] I'm a big fan of andre, he's not bull shittin and getting work done. Give him a good bonus please Garry.

Who here remembers times when we were getting updates at least once a week? Good times...

[QUOTE=Kneon;44359436]Hey Postal, I do appreciate you joining in here. And I do understand what you're saying, about progress, cheaters, and being patient. However, the issue isn't so much the "current state", it's the progress/direction/communication. The whole "FP is the dev team in the next dorm room" (casual, swearing, don't give a f) vibe was refreshing at first, but at some point it loses some shine and we want them to actually be a business, and feel like they A) have a plan and a direction, and can communicate it to us and B) are actually going to start fleshing this game out at a reasonable pace. I still couldn't tell you if this is going to be a robot dinosaur game or a military herp derp. By comparison, Starbound alpha also didn't have updates super often. But you know what they did? They posted almost every day on the front page what they had worked on that day, with pictures, videos, and a road map of where we were going and what the end product was going to look like. Everyday I come by and still see the same post from 2 weeks ago (which was a placeholder post to begin with for "things coming soon!"), that I have a problem with. edit: why is it people have no problem responding to shit posts, but if you make a well constructed argument, you get ignored.[/QUOTE] I would really like to see a response to this. I refuse to believe you have to go berserker to get noticed on this thing.

I totally agree with OP, These are my thoughts. I have 500+ hours up, also own my own server.. love the game... But the total lack of updates is just getting beyond a joke. For the last month I have been telling myself, just another week and there will be something of substance. But no, there is absolutely nothing... I know the game is in alpha, but you are still buying something that is being developed. In my opinion the ball has been dropped and a shoddily scrambled list of apparent bug fixes will not suffice this time as an "update". This big update they promised all of us when they removed zombies...was made about 2 months ago. And still nothing. The game is seeming to be getting worse.. foundation glitches, airdrops (still not working)... its getting so stale.. [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kneon;44360815]I would really like to see a response to this. I refuse to believe you have to go berserker to get noticed on this thing.[/QUOTE] THIS!!!!! [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kneon;44360815]I would really like to see a response to this. I refuse to believe you have to go berserker to get noticed on this thing.[/QUOTE] THIS!!!!! [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kneon;44360815]I would really like to see a response to this. I refuse to believe you have to go berserker to get noticed on this thing.[/QUOTE] THIS!!!!!

Patience patience patience! No one seems to read the "alpha" part in the description. The game is awesome for only being an alpha, enjoy it rather than complain it isn't updated constantly.

[QUOTE=JimmyGaming;44360840]-babble-[/QUOTE] You already made a thread about that post; there's no need to show us twice. We get it, you're stopping playing Rust until it gets better. Hurry up and start doing that.

[QUOTE=ceasetobe;44360891]Patience patience patience! No one seems to read the "alpha" part in the description. The game is awesome for only being an alpha, enjoy it rather than complain it isn't updated constantly.[/QUOTE] The game has been released a LONG time to be called an alpha. Last summer there were updates every week / 2 weeks and now no major content update in 2 months...

[QUOTE=Ezenelix;44361692]The game has been released a LONG time to be called an alpha. Last summer there were updates every week / 2 weeks and now no major content update in 2 months...[/QUOTE] Length of time has no bearing on what is or isn't an alpha.

[QUOTE=utilitron;44361751]Length of time has no bearing on what is or isn't an alpha.[/QUOTE] I dont think you've played the game when it was in browser version, that was an alpha game. With 700+ hours rust has got extremely boring because of no content updates and hackers in groups of 10+ ruining servers while FP / admins do nothing about.

[QUOTE=Kneon;44359436]Hey Postal, I do appreciate you joining in here. And I do understand what you're saying, about progress, cheaters, and being patient. However, the issue isn't so much the "current state", it's the progress/direction/communication. The whole "FP is the dev team in the next dorm room" (casual, swearing, don't give a f) vibe was refreshing at first, but at some point it loses some shine and we want them to actually be a business, and feel like they A) have a plan and a direction, and can communicate it to us and B) are actually going to start fleshing this game out at a reasonable pace. I still couldn't tell you if this is going to be a robot dinosaur game or a military herp derp. By comparison, Starbound alpha also didn't have updates super often. But you know what they did? They posted almost every day on the front page what they had worked on that day, with pictures, videos, and a road map of where we were going and what the end product was going to look like. Everyday I come by and still see the same post from 2 weeks ago (which was a placeholder post to begin with for "things coming soon!"), that I have a problem with. edit: why is it people have no problem responding to shit posts, but if you make a well constructed argument, you get ignored.[/QUOTE] Still waiting. At this point I'll settle for an incoherent rebuttal from a fanboy. The fact that no one can discuss this is kind of bull shit.

[QUOTE=Kneon;44361801]Still waiting. At this point I'll take an incoherent rebuttal from a fanboy. The fact that no one can discuss this is kind of bull shit.[/QUOTE] Hey. I want to propose something to you. I propose not that you are [I]wrong[/I], in that you have expectations that are reasonable. I propose that you are instead slightly ahead of the game, and perhaps a little bit misguided. Let's leave aside the labels for development phases, because never mind if it's an alpha or a beta or a pre-alpha or a "Foundation Release" (which, apparently, means Buggy as Fuck but ready to sell on Steam with no alpha or early access warning at all, thanks to Infection: Scammy Stories), what matters is what needs to be done. What needs to be done: Everything, but starting with foundation things like settling on a permanent UI framework, and getting a working sky and atmospheric lighting system, which in turn allows for better water and for specular reflections and other uses of the second camera (like pixellated wangs). The UI framework had been holding back a lot of functional changes because everything would've had to have been scrapped and redone all over again when the UI was changed. The UI has now been changed, and now new ground can be broken on new features with a reduced chance of lost time from having to throw work out and start over. The new sky means that water can be fully overhauled and become something more than an instant-death zone. The dev blogs state that water is intended to play a much bigger role in Rust. There have been tons of threads requesting lakes and rivers and other water features on the land itself, and I suspect the devs will do at least something to that end now that the water system can be reworked with its new capabilities. Another underappreciated change is the item editor, which now enables anyone on the dev team to add new items to Rust. Before, it had to be done by garry or Helk (I'm guessing that's who the two devs being referred to are), which put a severe bottleneck on adding and updating new content. This is, again, something that doesn't immediately translate into cool new things to do in game, but represents a system built to speed that up over the lifetime of development. You have reasonable expectations, but you're acting like this foundation is already fairly well-laid and solid... and it isn't. So, add some extra time and patience before you start expecting the big patches to come chunking down the line. Major things are happening right now, but they're not even under the hood changes, they are changes to the thing that holds the hood itself in place. As far as communications go, I'd argue that maybe they could be a little more verbose about their progress, but I'm fairly satisfied overall. You also have to take into account that GDC and Steam Dev Days and everything else has been going on, so that's caused lost office time due to travel. Seriously, everyone be patient. You really, really don't need to hear that garry worked out a bug in the item editor that was causing the stock market prices in Indonesia to fluctuate but only if Celine Dion was wearing a blue dress. Facepunch has better things to do with their time than keep you guys up to date in the absolute minutia of the production. Yes, they [I]could[/I] do it, but they don't have to.

[QUOTE=Ezenelix;44361785]I dont think you've played the game when it was in browser version, that was an alpha game. With 700+ hours rust has got extremely boring because of no content updates and hackers in groups of 10+ ruining servers while FP / admins do nothing about.[/QUOTE] I bought it when it came to steam. Switching from browser to steam wouldn't be a simple process. Stills no bearing on alpha status. They are still adding in core features. That's what makes it alpha.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44361923]Hey. I want to propose something to you... [/QUOTE] I do agree with pretty much everything you said. But that is not what my post is saying or asking for. Boiled down to one statement it was essentially: FP does not communicate a plan, direction or vision for what the game will be someday. This is pretty standard in alpha. (I cited an example as well). Editing to respond to your edit: In my opinion, they need to pick EITHER keeping us up to date and communicating at all, OR actually putting out content. If you can't put out content very fast because of all these valid reasons you stated, then you need to be talking to players. Or start putting out, and then you don't need to talk to us as much. Pick one. This whole "we have no plan, were making this up as we go and not telling you anything" BS is for rookies.

[QUOTE=Kneon;44361996]I do agree with pretty much everything you said. But that is not what my post is saying or asking for. Boiled down to one statement it was essentially: FP does not communicate a plan, direction or vision for what the game will be someday. This is pretty standard in alpha. (I cited an example as well).[/QUOTE] Do they absolutely need to this early? Yes, it'd be nice if we had an idea of what kind of lore we're looking at (if anything at all), but the devs are making a bit of an experiment at a different kind of game. Rust is designed to hinge primarily on player freedom and emergent gameplay, and the game's theme and mechanics will rotate around that. The devs could change their mind and flip everything around, but I think they've got a fairly clear vision in mind, it's a matter of the exact shape the game will be in when we get there that is unknown. The devs are trying to do some experiments with Rust to try and break new ground. One such example is, garry was pondering a possible way of having players be able to take blueprints in Rust and convert them into Steam inventory items for a blueprint exchange on the Community Marketplace. This would be, like trading cards, a [I]player-run[/I] economy. I should also point out that this was in the context of blueprints continuing to drop via the ordinary in-game ways and [I]not[/I] the second stage of rolling out a Blueprint Store with micropayments everywhere. It would literally be a way for players to buy and sell blueprints directly to other players. Like other community items like trading cards and emoticons and backgrounds, there would be a small cut off the top for the dev and for Valve, sure, but it's still an exchange primarily between players. This idea may not actually work out, but it's something that goes in a bit of a different direction for gaming. Depending on the exact specifics, I don't know if I'd actually want this, myself, but it's still an interesting idea to explore. [editline]26th March 2014[/editline] Yeah, you're just impatient.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44362104] [editline]26th March 2014[/editline] Yeah, you're just impatient.[/QUOTE] And there it is. We finally got to "he's making too much sense, must resort to writing off". Thanks for the "late" rating too.

[QUOTE=Kneon;44362172]And there it is. We finally got to "he's making too much sense, must resort to writing off". Thanks for the "late" rating too.[/QUOTE] It's true though, that's really what it all boils down to. We're [B]all[/B] too impatient... we all want updates and new content and better communication, but there's nothing anyone can do but wait. Just wait, and be patient. I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's arguments or anything, not trying to troll, not trying to fanboy it up or whatever... I honestly believe that it's that simple. We all just need to wait. Let the devs do their thing for now, obviously raising a stink about it on the forums hasn't helped and I'm sure it will continue to not help lol.

Thats not true at all. Go read [URL="http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/"]the story of rust/[/URL] under the plans section. It clearly states the plan. They have been following it well.

[QUOTE=utilitron;44362234]Thats not true at all. Go read [URL="http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/"]the story of rust/[/URL] under the plans section. It clearly states the plan. They have been following it well.[/QUOTE] Are they really going to add 100 foot giants? That will improve the pve a lot :v:

[QUOTE=utilitron;44362234]Thats not true at all. Go read [URL="http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/"]the story of rust/[/URL] under the plans section. It clearly states the plan. They have been following it well.[/QUOTE] I am not 100% sure which post you are referring to, but that 3-4 paragraphs is not [B]a[/B] plan just because the header says 'plans'. General thoughts, maybe, most of which about the immediate future, most of which is already outdated as of 3 months ago. "but I think they've got a fairly clear vision in mind" I don't. I don't think they have any kind of detailed vision beyond the few things they are prototyping with at any given time. I think they HAD a vision for some really cool mechanics, and now that those are 'conceptually proven', they aren't real sure where to go. Sure, they might have some ideas here and there for some new mechanics (what to replace the red animal zombie replacements with, etc.). I think Garry even has some general guidelines for how he wants the game to evolve. He's shared some of those things -- player freedom, emergent gameplay, etc. But big vision? I don't think so. Even without it being fully shared, it would at least be felt as some kind of common thread in the features as they are developed. The helicopter didn't feel like any part of some big vision. The replacement of the zombies with red-colored versions of the animals didn't feel like that either. The addition of backpack locks which isn't used on any server I've ever played on since it was added didn't eiter. Now having said that, there isn't anything wrong with not having that vision right now. The game can still evolve into a great game by experimenting and seeing what works and what doesn't. Some might say that could work better than setting a vision and forcing everything to fit from day one.

I think both parties first have to understand one thing: The idea of paying $10 - $30 to purchase a [i]"pre-alpha"[/i] game is a new one. Players, since video-games have been a [i]thing[/i], have bought their game and been able to play it (as a full game). It's only recently that players have been able to spend money to play a completely, entirely unfinished game. [b]It is understandable that players who are used to paying money to have a full game have inflated expectations of how a game should be developed after they pay for it.[/b] It's [i]understandable[/i]. It's not a correct expectation (in fact, it's very far from the truth), but it's an understandable one. I think people who have more realistic views of the game's development should take this into consideration when responding. Consider the following list: Final Fantasy VII - [B]1994 - 1997[/B] - 3 Y Demon Souls - [B]2007 - 2009 [/B]- 2 Y Shadow of the Colossus - [B]2002 - 2005[/B] - 3 Y World of Warcraft - [B]2001 - 2004[/B] - 3 Y Super Meat Boy - [B]2009 - 2010[/B] - 1 Y Minecraft - [B]2009 - 20011[/B] - 2 Y Resident Evil 4 - [B]2001 - 2005[/B] - 4 Y Titan Fall - [B]2011 - 2014[/B] - 3 Y Crash Bandicoot - [B]1994 - 1996[/B] - 2 Y Starcraft - [B]1995 - 1998[/B] - 3 Y (I tried to choose a wide array of games over a wide time period; note, too, that most of these games have a much larger team devoted to them.) Games take a long time to make. [i]Years[/i]; I don't even know if I'll be playing computer games in 4 years (hahaha, who am I kidding, of course I will! :D) We're lucky that we've access to a game that's really good [b]in alpha[/b]. It's still being developed, and it will take a long time to develop. Because we're able to play the game in its rudimentary stages does not mean it is a full game, or even [i]close[/i] to being a full game. The [i]conceptual[/i] idea of what the game is isn't even finished yet, much less the development. A [b]lot[/b] of people bought Rust. This is good for the developers. This does not mean that Rust will move faster (much like development of a game with millions of dollars of funding and a large AAA team devoted to it). It takes a long time to make a game, and at this point, we shouldn't be expecting content updates. The game itself is hardly even programmed yet.

I think you are missing it completely. The plan is to work on bug fixes and replace placeholders with their own assets. That is exactly what is happening. They are working on the core of the game. Monsters/ai are superficial. Making sleepers lootable Adding weight to objects and adding weight limits Making research consume item researched Making research take several stages Adding advanced workbench Breaking up construction into several stages Adding bow mods Farming Bear traps New Player models New UI New map generation Dynamic resources And more...

[QUOTE=Ezenelix;44361692]The game has been released a LONG time to be called an alpha. Last summer there were updates every week / 2 weeks and now no major content update in 2 months...[/QUOTE] do you have any idea how much work goes into a game? just because the alpha was released awhile ago means nothing. Its still in development. You should know that you are buying an incomplete game with its listed as alpha.