Loin Cloth - Rust - Facepunch Forum

Low poly penises are bad m'kay kids, but shooting people/stealing all their shit/breaking into their house is okay.

[QUOTE=Cyborgt;42782084]You seem to have chosen to ignore my use of the word "odd" in making my argument regarding this issue becoming a social stigma. That's meant to express the fact that it makes no sense and has no real meaning. Making an argument on the basis of "it's just the way it has always been done" is engaging in an act of logical fallacy. It's not a real argument at all. As for your point about the game having no reasoning to not have clothing, you can't argue with the fact that not enough is known about the intended backstory to make that argument. For all you know, this really is supposed to be a hunger games style survival contest where the contestants are thrown into this situation intentionally with nothing but a rock, two bandages and a torch. We simply don't know if the game has any story reason for it so you can't make the claim that it doesn't. Also, I never once even remotely suggested that someone capable of building an M4 wouldn't be able to make a loin cloth. The game has clothing in it, you just don't start with any on. That's not the same as the game not having clothing. I just don't see a reason to add something like a loin cloth because it would serve no practical purpose. As for your final paragraph there, it's almost not even worth addressing. You're aware that I and all the other people here that disagree with your point of view on the subject are part of the 7 billion people right? So are nudists and people that are just generally comfortable with the concept of nudity. In fact, there are plenty of cultures where it's not a problem at all for someone to be nude in public. If you can't understand my arguments then I see that as an entirely personal problem.[/QUOTE] It's not off if the vast majority is in acceptance of it, that is normal, read up on English vocabulary and surely this will come to you fairly quickly. The game has no story to back either you nor me up, you're debating the same premise as religion, neither side can win. You stated that the only time humans began wearing clothing was in order to protect themselves, weapons were built for the same purpose, therefore logically we can infer with one comes the other, so indirectly, you did indeed. Sorry, I had misrepresented the nudists and FacePunch forums, let me rephrase. "if you dislike it feel free to tell the 6.999 (very rough estimate) billion other people who couldn't give less of a shit"

[QUOTE=JazZ5109AI;42782722]It's not off if the vast majority is in acceptance of it, that is normal, read up on English vocabulary and surely this will come to you fairly quickly.[/QUOTE] It's odd because there's no real reason for it and it completely disregards nature. If you include animals in your calculation then in fact it is odd since none of them see a problem with nudity. Perhaps you should spend less time trying to correct my choice in wording and more on actually forming a valid argument. [QUOTE=JazZ5109AI;42782722] The game has no story to back either you nor me up, you're debating the same premise as religion, neither side can win.[/QUOTE] That was, obviously, my entire point there. You were trying to argue that there was no reason for something when in fact we don't know that there's not reason for it. Without all the facts, you can't make such a claim. [QUOTE=JazZ5109AI;42782722] You stated that the only time humans began wearing clothing was in order to protect themselves, weapons were built for the same purpose, therefore logically we can infer with one comes the other, so indirectly, you did indeed.[/QUOTE] Reading comprehension, clearly not one of your strengths. I stated that humans first began wearing clothing to protect themselves from the elements. I also stated that this use of clothing made sense. Nothing about these statements in any way even implies the things you claim I was saying. You're putting words in my mouth to make your argument look better. [QUOTE=JazZ5109AI;42782722] Sorry, I had misrepresented the nudists and FacePunch forums, let me rephrase. "if you dislike it feel free to tell the 6.999 (very rough estimate) billion other people who couldn't give less of a shit"[/QUOTE] ... This is just childish. You're claiming to speak for everyone when there is clear evidence you do not. The world is not so sensitive about nudity as prudish cultures like that of the US would like you to believe.

My stance on the matter: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/buRtqZI.jpg[/IMG]

haha i love that everyone in this thread is getting super heated over video game penises. You all know you are arguing over something pointless right? Why in the hell do you have to inject morality into a VIDEO GAME. It doesn't really matter either way. Yogurt Slingers or no, it is still a video game. EDIT: and my first post EVER is on a thread about penis. Thank you.

[QUOTE=Go_Athump;42783635]haha i love that everyone in this thread is getting super heated over video game penises. You all know you are arguing over something pointless right? Why in the hell do you have to inject morality into a VIDEO GAME. It doesn't really matter either way. Yogurt Slingers or no, it is still a video game. EDIT: and my first post EVER is on a thread about penis. Thank you.[/QUOTE] welcome to the rust portion of facepunch, you will be posting that a lot here.

i agree 100 percent with the post above me [editline]6th November 2013[/editline] i agree 100 percent with the patrick henry

#PenisIsLife

[QUOTE=volat1le;42783731]i agree 100 percent with the post above me [editline]6th November 2013[/editline] i agree 100 percent with the patrick henry[/QUOTE] So, just for future reference, you can stop making posts like this on Facepunch forever or at least until garry changes the rating system maybe. Because instead of making a post to say "I agree", all you need to do is mouse over the person's post and click this little fucker: [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/IMG] Never again. :v:

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42783920]So, just for future reference, you can stop making posts like this on Facepunch forever or at least until garry changes the rating system maybe. Because instead of making a post to say "I agree", all you need to do is mouse over the person's post and click this little fucker: [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/IMG] Never again. :v:[/QUOTE] But that button doesn't express the full power of the 100% agreement volat1le was trying to express. It's just far too much power to be contained in one easily accessible button at the bottom of a post.

a loin cloth should be a craftable item made from 1 or two cloth :)

Maybe you spawn with a loincloth, but it's basically the same as pants - you can take it off if you want. And many will. And you know what? Fine with me. Whether or not their character has a certain lump of flesh on them shouldn't matter at all. The argument that society dictates we wear clothes falls apart once you realize, essentially, this isn't normal society. It's a new, online, post apocalyptic survivalist society. Being naked here is normal and therefore accepted, and in some cases it's even a survival strategy (for instance, to fool others into thinking you're a fresh spawn)

[QUOTE=Frankieboy15;42775727]Ok, I don't actually mind the idea of nudity but I find it slightly awkward to play when I'm playing round my mates house or simply in my living room and I have family members watching me play Rust. I've found a solution for the living room, and it was simply to take my PC upstairs but regarding round my friends house I still find the matter a problem. I'm not asking you to remove Nudity but to simply allow people who can't play in private, the freedom to have a loincloth option.[/QUOTE] Considering an option to turn nudity off, as gore can be turned off in many games could always be an option. We'll just see what they have to deliver.

Just out of curiosity; does anyone complaining about dicks NOT come from America? Seems like it's all from one place that the issues stem.

[QUOTE=Chullster;42785196]Just out of curiosity; does anyone complaining about dicks NOT come from America?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1312653"]Americans[/URL] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1312653&p=42402223&viewfull=1#post42402223"]are[/URL] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1312653&p=42403791&viewfull=1#post42403791"]not[/URL] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1307687"]the[/URL] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1305270"]only[/URL] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1303654"]ones[/URL].

[QUOTE=Var;42775735]dude, make pants.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I forgot I can magically get cloth and magically throw pants into everyone's inventory.

In the end, the best thing to do is probably add an option to the game to disable nudity and maybe another for gore. Turning it on would render a loin-cloth in place of a penis on every avatar. I could care less, but I still think it doesn't make much sense to start fully naked and still have bandages and a torch. The rock I can understand, lol.

[QUOTE=JazZ5109AI;42781286]i really, strongly dislike all the people defending the nudity in rust. Like honestly the least you could do is be neutral towards it, but blatantly defending a game that is consistent of men running around with their dicks hanging out is pretty sad. Sure I get it, Rust isn't a child's game to begin with, that's cool, but let's not make it an explicitly adult game. It's not even a matter of maturity, [B][U]I'll play CoD with a toddler in the room, because it's pretty easy to explain the fact it's a game and as far as they are concerned it's just a bunch of guys running around with cool machines in their hands. On the other hand, playing Rust with a toddler in the room is an entirely different story, it's borderline perverted.[/U][/B] As for the excuse of 'the devs have enough to work on', modeling a simple loin cloth on the base avatar would literally take no more than an hour assuming you have to learn Blender first. It's not near considered hard to do and a professional developer should be able to do it within 10 minutes. Yeah I understand this game is about taking risks, learning things, etc, for the devs. I get and respect that, [U][B]however this is something that is downright wrong and shouldn't be considered to be okay.[/B][/U] It's funny and all but when you get down to it, it's not something that should be in a game publicly available without a rating.[/QUOTE] Okay, one. You shouldn't be playing games with a toddler in the room. Secondly I bet you are some sheltered boy who grew up with your parents telling you it's a perfect world out there. I am not defending the nudist's colony that is Rust, but dude, it's a part of the game, get over it. I find it funny. Hell my mom came in my room and my friend heard her talking so he ran up to my character and took off his pants. My mom just laughed. It is funny. If you don't like it then quit the game. Go back to playing CoD for all we care. Nudity isn't wrong and I am not sure where you got that, it is a part of the world. You have to get over it dude. It is a whopping, what? like 10 cloth to make pants... If you dont want to see other peopled Kadoodles then just make a lot of pants and hand them out. I, personally, don't make any armor until kevlar because people won't kill me as often because they will just think I am a freshie, while I gather for my 4 story home. Just get over it bro. The devs did it to keep the kids from playing the game which I like, I am not a fan of squeakers, this isn't CoD. Please just ignore the dicks. I honestly don't even see them anymore. When I see a nude, i just think, "oh, he must have just spawned." I dont even remember the fact his dangalang is out there swaying in the breeze.

Why does it need to make sense to be naked in a game? Gary standing his ground on this makes me think Rust will end up being a great game as the devs wont pander to those with insecurities about the human form, casuals, console players and the other dirty "C" word: commercialization. So many shit software companies "want CoDs audience" or to "Appeal to a wider audience" well I can safely say those companies produce shit games after riding the coattails of earlier successes. See Morrowind-->Skyrim or BF2--->BF3 or 4 Facepunch seems like it's my kind of company, and Rust is my kind of game. LET THE DICKS FLY AROUND FOREVER!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Chullster;42787263]Why does it need to make sense to be naked in a game? Gary standing his ground on this makes me think Rust will end up being a great game as the devs wont pander to those with insecurities about the human form, casuals, console players and the other dirty "C" word: commercialization. So many shit software companies "want CoDs audience" or to "Appeal to a wider audience" well I can safely say those companies produce shit games after riding the coattails of earlier successes. See Morrowing-->Skyrim or BF2--->BF3 or 4 Facepunch seems like it's my kind of company, and Rust is my kind of game. LET THE DICKS FLY AROUND FOREVER!!!!!![/QUOTE] Morrowind* But yah I agree bro. If you can't get over the fact that the characters are naked then you are insecure with your sexuality. lol

[QUOTE=TheDunkMaster;42778061]I'll quote garry here, "It's ok for people to see me shoot clothed people in the face but not to see a naked avatar." Logic Fail.[/QUOTE] That ignores the fact that most societies and cultures have differing feelings and norms about violence and nudity. The ratings groups (both movies and games) tend to agree.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42787317]That ignores the fact that most societies and cultures have differing feelings and norms about violence and nudity. The ratings groups (both movies and games) tend to agree.[/QUOTE] And this is acceptable as it is? to me it's not. Violence should be far far more tabboo than the plain old human body. I mean the model in game isn't even erect, I can just imagine the shit storm from the puritans if that ever happened, and yet still, seeing an erect dick is nothing compared to murdering someone. If you fail to see the difference in magnitude then, well, I give up.

[QUOTE=Chullster;42787350]And this is acceptable as it is? to me it's not. Violence should be far far more tabboo than the plain old human body. I mean the model in game isn't even erect, I can just imagine the shit storm from the puritans if that ever happened, and yet still, seeing an erect dick is nothing compared to murdering someone. If you fail to see the difference in magnitude then, well, I give up.[/QUOTE] False equivalence. Nudity is nudity. There is no 'simulated nudity' (yes, I know it's a computer game animation, but that is not what I am talking about with regards to 'simulated'). Violence, however, is simulated. We can tell the difference. It's why the nuts who claim that people are more violent because they play violent video games are ... nuts. "Violence should be far far more tabboo than the plain old human body." Well, that is your opinion, but it isn't the case today. Again, there is a difference between violence and simulated violence. It's not even that good of simulated violence -- no blood splatter, no body deformation, no impact response from the body being shot. I'd say the nudity is much, much more realistic than the violence. Also, the nudity serves no purpose, whereas the violence does. That's the big thing with me. If the default unity model came with a loin cloth, I doubt we'd even be having this discussion.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42787407]False equivalence. Nudity is nudity. There is no 'simulated nudity' (yes, I know it's a computer game animation, but that is not what I am talking about with regards to 'simulated'). Violence, however, is simulated. We can tell the difference. It's why the nuts who claim that people are more violent because they play violent video games are ... nuts.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure where the "simulated nudity" argument came from as no one used that term before you did but if you really want to take the argument there then i'd have to disagree with you entirely. Your argument is that "simulated violence" is more acceptable because it's not very realistic and people can tell the difference between that and real life violence. Well, the nudity in this game isn't very realistic and I can certainly tell the difference between it and real life nudity. People's bodies don't move realistically and there isn't any fine detail like visible veins on them so if all it takes is to be distinguishable from the real thing to be simulated then it seems to me like there is such a thing as "simulated nudity." [QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42787407] "Violence should be far far more tabboo than the plain old human body." Well, that is your opinion, but it isn't the case today. Again, there is a difference between violence and simulated violence. It's not even that good of simulated violence -- no blood splatter, no body deformation, no impact response from the body being shot. I'd say the nudity is much, much more realistic than the violence. [/QUOTE] I think you said it best yourself just a few posts ago. [QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42787407] That ignores the fact that most societies and cultures have differing feelings and norms about violence and nudity.[/QUOTE] It's hardly fair to acknowledge that fact when it suits you and then ignore it when it doesn't. There are plenty of cultures where violence actually is more taboo than nudity so your own argument works against you here. [QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42787407] Also, the nudity serves no purpose, whereas the violence does. That's the big thing with me. If the default unity model came with a loin cloth, I doubt we'd even be having this discussion.[/QUOTE] If the nudity truly served no purpose in this game then you wouldn't be here talking about it. It sends a very potent message to everyone playing the game that you are out in this wilderness both naked and alone. You can't see that you're nude (without using console commands to go third person) but you know it from what you see when you run into others out there. This helps to instill a sense of urgency on the idea of fixing the situation you find yourself in if for no other reason than to deal with that "cold" icon in the lower right. You can't just claim something has no purpose because you don't like it and/or think that same purpose could be achieved without it. The purpose is still there whether you wish to see it or not.

[QUOTE=Cyborgt;42787753]I'm not sure where the "simulated nudity" argument came from as no one used that term before you did but if you really want to take the argument there then i'd have to disagree with you entirely.[/QUOTE] Have you ever heard of simulated sex? I didn't invent that term. I did apply it to nudity to say that it doesn't exist. If it were a thing, there'd be a term for it. Simulated things tend to be held to a different standard than non-simulated. People don't make movies showing people actually being killed as part of the plot. People make movies where people pretend to get killed. Simulated violence ok, real violence, not so much. Most cultures have a higher maturity standard for watching porn as opposed to watching 'people grinding that aren't really having sex.' Simulated sex ok, real sex, a different standard. I simply applied that same logic to nudity. When a guy comes up to me with his junk hanging out, and I shoot him in the head, I pretended to kill him. I didn't pretend to look at a naked man, cartoonish or not, I really saw nudity. I participated in simulated violence. I probably confused things by talking about how realistic the violence is in Rust. Regardless of how realistic it is, it is still pretending to kill someone. You can't pretend to see nudity. My point there was that as violence goes, Rust's isn't even that realistic, so you are comparing very unrealistic violence to fairly realistic nudity and saying 'well, both are taboo, so they are the same.' [QUOTE=Cyborgt;42787753] It's hardly fair to acknowledge that fact when it suits you and then ignore it when it doesn't. There are plenty of cultures where violence actually is more taboo than nudity so your own argument works against you here. [/QUOTE] Please name one culture where Rust is played that considers violence to be more taboo than nudity. I didn't think I would need to qualify my argument to include only those cultures that are relevant in the context, but I certainly can going forward. [QUOTE=Cyborgt;42787753] If the nudity truly served no purpose in this game then you wouldn't be here talking about it. [/QUOTE] Sorry, that makes no sense. In terms of game mechanics, the nudity has zero purpose. You can contrive whatever backstory and justification you want (really, a sense of urgency from seeing people naked?), but it doesn't change the fact that there are no game mechanic purposes for it, whereas there is for the violence. [QUOTE=Cyborgt;42787753] It sends a very potent message to everyone playing the game that you are out in this wilderness both naked and alone. You can't see that you're nude (without using console commands to go third person) but you know it from what you see when you run into others out there. This helps to instill a sense of urgency on the idea of fixing the situation you find yourself in if for no other reason than to deal with that "cold" icon in the lower right. You can't just claim something has no purpose because you don't like it and/or think that same purpose could be achieved without it. The purpose is still there whether you wish to see it or not.[/QUOTE] Wow that was contrived. I could claim that the doors magically lock and unlock because of invisible fairies that sit on our shoulders, but that doesnt mean there is any higher purpose to the current door mechanics than 'that's just the easiest way to handle it for now.' Much like the nudity. It was easy to make naked guys run around, that's probably the default model. It would take work to add a loincloth, so there isn't one. Trying to pass it off as some early design decision rather than 'that's just the way it is' is disingenuous.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42787407] Also, the nudity serves no purpose[/QUOTE] I disagree. It isn't a gameplay purpose, but it's still a purpose. It's a psychological one, and I'm sure it's the entire reason Garry decided we should be nude. Starting out buck-naked in the middle of nowhere with just a rock for protection is the [B]ultimate feeling of vulnerability[/B]. Contrast it to when we all looked like fully equipped soldiers - feels decidedly different, doesn't it? [QUOTE]that's probably the default model[/QUOTE] Unity doesn't have a default model... o.O

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42788139]Have you ever heard of simulated sex? I didn't invent that term. I did apply it to nudity to say that it doesn't exist. If it were a thing, there'd be a term for it. Simulated things tend to be held to a different standard than non-simulated.[/QUOTE] There actually is a term for simulated nudity though it's actually used in relation to things like skin tone bodysuits which are used to provide the illusion of nudity where one isn't actually nude. That being said, the nudity is no more real (or important) than the violence. You just choose to place greater importance upon it because it makes you uncomfortable. [QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42788139] Please name one culture where Rust is played that considers violence to be more taboo than nudity.[/QUOTE] That's hardly a fair request to make considering I don't have access to information on every person to ever purchase and play Rust. [QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42788139] Sorry, that makes no sense. In terms of game mechanics, the nudity has zero purpose.[/QUOTE] You seem to love dismissing an argument entirely simply because you don't agree with it. If you really just want to break it down to mechanics, you are nude because you aren't wearing anything in the game. End of story. Nudity justified by mechanics. I could have made that argument but I felt it was a little too blunt and simplistic to make the argument stick in your mind but since you want to focus on mechanics so much, there it is. The fact of the matter is that the underwear typically seen in games is what isn't justified by mechanics because they have clothing in the game but when you choose to take it all off, you're still wearing clothing. As for your attempts to dismiss the nudity as "being the default model," you clearly haven't seen videos of the early alpha. The default model was a guy in full military issue Kevlar body armor. Adding nudity to the game along with the new individual armor models was clearly a choice which is reinforced by the fact that Gary is completely uninterested in discussing the issue.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42788139] Please name one culture where Rust is played that considers violence to be more taboo than nudity.[/QUOTE] It IS more taboo than nudity. You go nude in public, they'll probably think you're drunk, haul you off to jail, and probably slap you with fines for it (*some* places may have you register as a sex offender, but that's more exception than rule). You go murdering people in public, and it's a different story altogether - everyone is going to do all they can to put you away for life.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42788935]It IS more taboo than nudity. You go nude in public, they'll probably think you're drunk, haul you off to jail, and probably slap you with fines for it (*some* places may have you register as a sex offender, but that's more exception than rule). You go murdering people in public, and it's a different story altogether - everyone is going to do all they can to put you away for life.[/QUOTE] As amusing as I find this argument, even I know he was specifically referring to violence vs nudity of a virtual nature. Bringing the real world consequences of actually performing these acts into it doesn't really help support the argument against treating nudity as worse than violence in this case...

Oh, come on guys... it's just a naked 3D figure. I just wish they'd put in a female soon. :)