How software development actually works (and how Facepunch is Failing) - Rust

[QUOTE=Prescription;46402188][/QUOTE] Congratulations, you re quoted yourself and left no constructive content in your reply. So I know I'm a bit late to this, but one question was (if I understand correctly): [QUOTE=elixwhitetail]Tell me, how are the Rust developers going to fix a bug in Unity?[/QUOTE] Rather than answering the question, you're stonewalling him? NexusOne asked you as well, but again... [QUOTE=Prescription]lol fanboy? [/QUOTE] Rather than make these absurd replies, why don't you enlighten us on how to fix the bug? [QUOTE=Prescription]1. I work for a software company, and have performed in several roles.... 2. I have played around 1300 hours of Rust so I know a thing or 2 about whats been going on. [/QUOTE] There's something I'd like to say about this statement. You seem to feel as if these two qualities give you an elevated knowledge over the topic. I can guarantee that more people with these "credentials" exist on Facepunch and have not done what you're doing. You claim you have all of the answers for making Rust a "successful" game, yet you can't answer elixwhitetail's question. Give up and move on because you've contradicted yourself. Oh, and if my understanding of Unity is correct, there is something flawed with your logic, but I'm going to look more into this myself.

[QUOTE=J!NX;46402426]Captain Jean-luc Picard didn't get where he is by being a great leader. He got where he is today because he listens to people and has a great team, and knows it. Garry is a lot like that. He knows what his...[/QUOTE] Oh shit. You did NOT just compare Garry to Jean-luc?! Now you you have gone full retarded. Btw, he was/is a great leader who picked his team well... Garry is more like a ferengi who found a compiler and an ancient language and made profit.

[QUOTE=hatred;46402637]Oh shit. You did NOT just compare Garry to Jean-luc?! Now you you have gone full retarded. Btw, he was/is a great leader who picked his team well... Garry is more like a ferengi who found a compiler and an ancient language and made profit.[/QUOTE] you're right he's more like kirk get it, because of the mass number of red members, red shirts get it because I'm not funny [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] I didn't mean to literally compare the two in the end they're not all that alike at all, I just couldn't think of another example

For a guy who works in software you sure as shit don't seem to understand the development methodologies from a software engineer perspective. You are spouting a lot of buzzwords, but I'm not seeing much substance to them. A development methodology is just that, a method to develop software. None are the be-all end-all to the problem of "how do we develop software", they are merely alternative approaches to the problem. They all have problems, and do not apply to every product or development case (well, except waterfall, fuck that noise). The methodologies are still very academic, businesses are hopping onto them because they [B]are[/B] better than what we had, but we are still working them out, so it's impossible to claim a company is doing it entirely wrong if its working for that company. Rust does not follow a normal software development cycle because right now it isn't a normal piece of software. It's a highly unstable base to throw around ideas for a game that is being developed almost entirely on the fly, there were few goals laid out when Garry started the game, and they are only adding goals as the game progresses. No existing methodologies really work for this as they assume some kind of structure to the product. Attempting to apply software development methodologies to things such as games is very tricky, unlike products spat out by normal software companies games require a different approach. Trying to shoehorn in one of the many agile methodologies might actually get in the way in places with games such as Rust.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46402685]For a guy who works in software you sure as shit don't seem to understand the development methodologies from a software engineer perspective. You are spouting a lot of buzzwords, but I'm not seeing much substance to them. A development methodology is just that, a method to develop software. None are the be-all end-all to the problem of "how do we develop software", they are merely alternative approaches to the problem. They all have problems, and do not apply to every product or development case (well, except waterfall, fuck that noise). The methodologies are still very academic, businesses are hopping onto them because they [B]are[/B] better than what we had, but we are still working them out, so it's impossible to claim a company is doing it entirely wrong if its working for that company. Rust does not follow a normal software development cycle because right now it isn't a normal piece of software. It's a high unstable base to throw around ideas for a game that is being developed almost entirely on the fly, there were few goals laid out when Garry started the game, and they are only adding goals as the game progresses. No existing methodologies really work for this as they assume some kind of structure to the product. Attempting to apply software development methodologies to things such as games is very tricky, unlike products spat out by normal software companies games require a different approach. Trying to shoehorn in one of the many agile methodologies might actually get in the way in places with games such as Rust.[/QUOTE] I'd really like to expand on this because hexpunK makes a lot of good points. I come from a software development background as well and work on a team developing an iOS app that is used by thousands of people; I work for a top 10 fortune 500 software development company. Companies all have software development teams who all follow different development methodologies. You may ask why and the answer is that the product and the team developing that product are all different and work differently. No team works the same and thus their approach to their product is different. Facepunch has released Rust on the methodology of the 'Alpha' cycle in which a large group of people pay for an early release of software and play the game as it is being developed daily. The team pushes new commits every day and iterates on the project a lot faster than the traditional waterfall approach. Based on my experience, I think it is safe to say that Facepunch is using the Agile methodology that is tuned to work with the 'Alpha' model of game development.

[QUOTE=Prescription;46399961]Let me preface with a couple things... [/QUOTE] Hey where the hell you been? We havent seen you out in no pvp land in a long time!

[QUOTE=Sgt. Lumpy;46402866]Hey where the hell you been? We havent seen you out in no pvp land in a long time![/QUOTE] Ha, how are you lumpy! Oh, you know, just getting battered and bruised on the forum. Legacy got so frustrating with all the hacking that I had to bail on it. I'm trying to like the new version, but its not quite there yet... but damn, there are some loyal ass gamers to it... its a zoo in these forums...

[QUOTE=Prescription;46402907]Ha, how are you lumpy! Oh, you know, just getting battered and bruised on the forum. Legacy got so frustrating with all the hacking that I had to bail on it. I'm trying to like the new version, but its not quite there yet... but damn, there are some loyal ass gamers to it... its a zoo in these forums...[/QUOTE] How's the weather up there on that unbelievably high horse of yours, almighty god of game knowledge?

[QUOTE=hippowombat;46403018]How's the weather up there on that unbelievably high horse of yours, almighty god of game knowledge?[/QUOTE] It's hard not to read his current posting as "ooh ouch feel bad for me I'm a victim of bullying" now.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;46403066]It's hard not to read his current posting as "ooh ouch feel bad for me I'm a victim of bullying" now.[/QUOTE] "CATER TO MY EMOTIONAL NEEDS, WORLD!!!!!"

[QUOTE=hippowombat;46403075]"CATER TO MY EMOTIONAL NEEDS, WORLD!!!!!"[/QUOTE] To a certain extent this was the type of ignorant/trollish comments I was referring to in the other thread.

[QUOTE=frank_walls;46403099]To a certain extent this was the type of ignorant/trollish comments I was referring to in the other thread.[/QUOTE] Half the shit people posted in this thread is trash... If we removed the comments from all the people who's extent of software development life cycle was downloading an alpha game and playing it... this thread would be about 1 page long of people who actually deserve to have an informed comment posted... instead its filled with minimum wage earners who are part of the facepunch stable of sheeple.

so only software developers have a valid opinion? must be lonely up there. not to say that there haven't been some really ignorant, trollish comments from both sides of the fence, but it's pretty arrogant to make a statement that fundamentally translates to your opinion is worth more because [I]*insert university education / hours playing rust / ambiguous programming history here*[/I] ...

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46403329]so only software developers have a valid opinion? must be lonely up there. not to say that there haven't been some really ignorant, trollish comments from both sides of the fence, but it's pretty arrogant to make a statement that fundamentally translates to your opinion is worth more because [I]*insert university education / hours playing rust / ambiguous programming history here*[/I] ...[/QUOTE] Only people who have been involved with software development should have an opinion on a Thread about software development... yes...

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403359]Only people who have been involved with software development should have an opinion on a Thread about software development... yes...[/QUOTE] so basically not you?

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403359]The first sheep has spoken...[/QUOTE] cute. i think i can safely say that you have just lost all credibility. but then, what did you expect when you make a thread commenting on how someone else should use their time, money, and skills to make a game that to date has sold how many copies in alpha? 2 million? from a developer that made garry's mod, which is not only still in active development, but has a massive modding community. who are you again? what games have you released? what proof have you provided of your incredible education in this field? honestly, what a waste of time you are.

-snip mrknifey got a quote of Prescription's original post before editing, this post is redundant-

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46403379]cute. i think i can safely say that you have just lost all credibility. but then, what did you expect when you make a thread commenting on how someone else should use their time, money, and skills to make a game that to date has sold how many copies in alpha? 2 million? from a developer that made garry's mod, which is not only still in active development, but has a massive modding community. who are you again? what games have you released? what proof have you provided of your incredible education in this field? honestly, what a waste of time you are.[/QUOTE] what do you do kid? fap, play video games, and your most valuable possession is your PC? What a waste of welfare money you are... [highlight](User was banned for this post ("shitposting" - dai))[/highlight] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Rating spam, numerous rude posts/trolling" - postal))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403391]what do you do kid? fap, play video games, and your most valuable possession is your PC? What a waste of welfare money you are...[/QUOTE] hey! fapping is a legitimate hobby!

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403391]what do you do kid? fap, play video games, and your most valuable possession is your PC? What a waste of welfare money you are...[/QUOTE] how precious, you made assertions about my character based on absolutely no data, and failed miserably. go on then. show us all how special your opinions are. how valid and shiny and new your regurgitation of what you got taught in university however many years ago is. your opinion is just as worthless as the rest of ours. get off your high horse.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46403419]how precious, you made assertions about my character based on absolutely no data, and failed miserably. go on then. show us all how special your opinions are. how valid and shiny and new your regurgitation of what you got taught in university however many years ago is. your opinion is just as worthless as the rest of ours. get off your high horse.[/QUOTE] ok then, long as we all agree...

why is everyone so aggressive [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8"]rust community just sucks[/URL]

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403244]Half the shit people posted in this thread is trash... If we removed the comments from all the people who's extent of software development life cycle was downloading an alpha game and playing it... this thread would be about 1 page long of people who actually deserve to have an informed comment posted... instead its filled with minimum wage earners who are part of the facepunch stable of sheeple.[/QUOTE] “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” ― Isaac Asimov

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46403419]your opinion is just as worthless as the rest of ours. get off your high horse.[/QUOTE] Crap am I on even keel too? I really was banking on being better than everyone. My entire sense of worth is tied to it.

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403244]Half the shit people posted in this thread is trash... If we removed the comments from all the people who's extent of software development life cycle was downloading an alpha game and playing it... this thread would be about 1 page long of people who actually deserve to have an informed comment posted... [B]instead its filled with minimum wage earners[/B] who are part of the facepunch stable of sheeple.[/QUOTE] You could not be a more pompous asshole. Goodnight, [I]my lord.[/I] [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=frank_walls;46403099]To a certain extent this was the type of ignorant/trollish comments I was referring to in the other thread.[/QUOTE] Joking =/= trolling, ban-o.

The OP is just about a true personification of Dolores Umbridge's little speech: Progress, just for the sake of progress, must be discouraged Let us preserve, what must be preserved Perfect what can be perfected, and prohibit practices, which ought to be, prohibited.

[QUOTE=utilitron;46403666]Crap am I on even keel too? I really was banking on being better than everyone. My entire sense of worth is tied to it.[/QUOTE] nah it's alright utilitron. you [I]ARE[/I] better than everyone else XD

The OP was not meant to make anyone mad... The title (and why facepunch is failing) was ill conceived... but the point is still valid in my opinion, 100+ comments and a couple thousand views later... Refine what currently exists... that does not mean you cannot actively develop new things simultaneously... but you can hold off integrating those new things until you feel good about what you have... I believe (opinion) that people who have no idea what Rust is, will be more happy if some of the existing functionality is buttoned down... vs. logging in and saying "WTF" is this.... like I've read in many posts, and seen on the actual servers...

[QUOTE=Prescription;46403849]The OP was not meant to make anyone mad... The title (and why facepunch is failing) was ill conceived... but the point is still valid in my opinion, 100+ comments and a couple thousand views later... Refine what currently exists... that does not mean you cannot actively develop new things simultaneously... but you can hold off integrating those new things until you feel good about what you have... I believe (opinion) that people who have no idea what Rust is, will be more happy if some of the existing functionality is buttoned down... vs. logging in and saying "WTF" is this.... like I've read in many posts, and seen on the actual servers...[/QUOTE] as much as i dislike the way you have made it, i actually agree with what i interpret as your point. the team would probably suffer less frustration from the community by completing baseline rather than entering new concepts into the game. spears, new clothes, bota bags, an entirely new building system including some changes to the components, salvaged weapons, syringes etc are very cool, but probably not of the highest priority IF the aim is to achieve baseline. instead, reintroducing and bugfixing the old elements should be a high priority. that said, although i feel that way, i will wait patiently and hope that they don't get distracted by all the pretty shinies on the way:)

I 100% agree with Prescription. I just wish I could have put it so eloquently. Many of posts above show that people aren't prepared to be open minded to Prescriptions points. He's not talking about who does what and why, he's talking about how a successful project needs to planned out to accomplish the desired outcome. Most software developers use closed alphas and betas because they realise the damage they could do if they release a game to early in the development cycle. I have been reading the forums over the last few months and there is no question the amount of negative threads is increasing proportionality as people lose patience and get frustrated with the game. Pointing out to folks that it's in early alpha or posting warnings "before purchasing know this" won't address the issue, it will just antagonize those who are already frustrated. :) When you're adding your 2 cents remember everyone here loves Rust including those who have negative things to say. Prescription has at no stage made derogatory comments about anyone elses post and if you want to have a meaningful input try to follow his example.