[QUOTE=lordrushx1;47639854]It was a x8 server frank,yes. At the same time, this cannot be generalized to one particular server due to the fact that when and IF they add protectors it will still be the same across all servers (unless of course there is a way that an admin can remove them)
The scale might be different, pending the servers but the balance for each individual server is the same for each player playing on that particular server[/QUOTE]
Hi mate, u now what the amount of c4 krafted from a 10 player group in this server ?? ....
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47641576]Garry has made it clear that he doesn't like this sort of automatic player identification; that not knowing is part of the game. You're [i]supposed[/i] to be unsure.
[url]http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/[/url][/QUOTE]
Thats a pity i'd really like to see how it would play out, it pays to not to be too religious about some stuff one has said in the past.
[QUOTE=lordrushx1;47639778]I personally think it is pretty close to balanced as it is.
I am a solo player and am VERY successful due to the fact that I know how and know what to do to be successful. I do not need a group to make my game time more pleasurable.
And just to show what an average week is like,this is a screen of my Wednesday night raid ,which I ALWAYS do solo. (fyi,yes...it is a modded server but everyone has the same resources and yes, I did craft all that C4 which was half of what I brought,still 2 solid days of crafting)
[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/bepsn.jpg[/IMG]
Still think a solo player needs help?[/QUOTE]
your comment is no valuable to anyone, since you play in a modded server and carry something like 1680 minutes of crafting with a stack of 150k metal fragment; your argument is quite invalid.
But i agree with what you say, game balance for solo players is fine. If you're smart enough you can make it quite easy around the map; it's obviously harder, but it's meant to be.
[QUOTE=Kowie;47655491]Thats a pity i'd really like to see how it would play out, it pays to not to be too religious about some stuff one has said in the past.[/QUOTE]
How so? By changing the fundamental nature of the game (the unknown risk)? Seems like Rust has been selling pretty well as-is.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47656878]How so? By changing the fundamental nature of the game (the unknown risk)? Seems like Rust has been selling pretty well as-is.[/QUOTE]
Mmm just because a game sells well doesn't mean there is no room for improvement in some areas, the current wait till people log off then raid their base anonymously isn't really that interesting or challenging at the least it would be nice if these people who got raided while offline at least get thrown a tidbit in return of who did it.
Knowing who raided your base is partly already in if some of you are online at your base or know a good number of players on the server you are going to find out anyway so getting to know who raided your base while you were offline isn't such a big difference, what fun does getting to raid a base anonymously add to the game anyway other than as a raider getting to raid it in easy mode with next to no repressions if no one tells the base owner you raided their base.
[QUOTE=Kowie;47660044]...the current wait till people log off then raid their base anonymously isn't really that interesting...[/QUOTE]
Unless of course while you're raiding their base someone comes by and starts raiding you to steal the raid.
I think caretakers would be more effective as server bosses of sorts. I think they should be large-gigantic sized(think say, the colossi from "shadow of the colossus"), at least the size of a small building. They would be rare (spawning only once for largest one(s), every 48 hours for medium sized, and the smallest being in radtowns and dropped with supply crates)
They (the largest ones) would remain inactive until players attacked it directly, spawning in near the center of the island. These guardians would have a radius around them (let's call it no mans land) where it would search for the aggressor in guard mode. Once finding a player, it will enter hostile mode for a time after it loses track of the player or kills it. (Let's say about 2-30 minutes) where it would attack any player made bases (small or large) that it spots, along with killing any and all players it finds.
Then it will enter guard mode(for about 5-20 minutes) as it moves back to its spawn point.
These large guardians are extremely hard to destroy, requiring teamwork and strategy to destroy/disable.
The smalle guardians would spawn in rad towns, medium sized ones in larger rad towns, with the smaller humanoid ones in the smaller ones.
(It would be completely possible to just hole up in your base and turn off all your lights and stay really quiet to prevent the largest guardian from agro'ing on it if it is in hostile mode, maybe some form of jammer to use to make it ignore your area)
(You could also just sneak around the rad town guardians)
[QUOTE=Kowie;47660044]Mmm just because a game sells well doesn't mean there is no room for improvement in some areas[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call changing the core tone of a successful game to be "improvement", but to each their own.
[editline]5th May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=frank_walls;47660470]Unless of course while you're raiding their base someone comes by and starts raiding you to steal the raid.[/QUOTE]
There's a team on one of my high-pop servers that does this. They scout the server watching for raider parties to go by, wait for them to breach, and then kill them from behind. Great tactic, because they get to raid without spending a dime on C4.
Now cue people complaining about how teamwork and strategy create unfair advantages.
[QUOTE=lordrushx1;47639778]I personally think it is pretty close to balanced as it is.
I am a solo player and am VERY successful due to the fact that I know how and know what to do to be successful. I do not need a group to make my game time more pleasurable.
And just to show what an average week is like,this is a screen of my Wednesday night raid ,which I ALWAYS do solo. (fyi,yes...it is a modded server but everyone has the same resources and yes, I did craft all that C4 which was half of what I brought,still 2 solid days of crafting)
[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/bepsn.jpg[/IMG]
Still think a solo player needs help?[/QUOTE]
Well you play on easymode server, sooo....
How about the caretakers go after fully geared players who mow down naked freshspawns?
This really destroys a big and important part of this game. If you have a Thompson machinegun and is fully geared, there is no reason for you to chase down and kill naked players who doesn't pose any threat what so ever.
[QUOTE=C-J...;47675709]How about the caretakers go after fully geared players who mow down naked freshspawns?
This really destroys a big and important part of this game. If you have a Thompson machinegun and is fully geared, there is no reason for you to chase down and kill naked players who doesn't pose any threat what so ever.[/QUOTE]
I was going to suggest something like this for the purposes of satire, but someone beat me to it... only they were being serious.
And here we have the crux of the issue: people don't like the way players (and Rust players are generally pond scum, let's be honest) are conducting themselves when given an empty RDM environment with a realistic approach to the concept of gangbanging... so they look to the idea of giant robot NPC's to enforce "X" where X equals the prevention of economic disparity, or moral codes, or whatever other issue du jour.
Rather than being told "here's a code base, here's a sandbox, here's some features... go do what you want and we'll code something to punish you if necessary", I'd rather see some legitimate bottom-up [B]game design[/B]... and there's more to it than managing a reactionary emergent gaming psychology experiment.
[QUOTE=Murdo;47675997]I was going to suggest something like this for the purposes of satire, but someone beat me to it... only they were being serious.
And here we have the crux of the issue: people don't like the way players (and Rust players are generally pond scum, let's be honest) are conducting themselves when given an empty RDM environment with a realistic approach to the concept of gangbanging... so they look to the idea of giant robot NPC's to enforce "X" where X equals the prevention of economic disparity, or moral codes, or whatever other issue du jour.
Rather than being told "here's a code base, here's a sandbox, here's some features... go do what you want and we'll code something to punish you if necessary", I'd rather see some legitimate bottom-up [B]game design[/B]... and there's more to it than managing a reactionary emergent gaming psychology experiment.[/QUOTE]
For me Rust feels like the good old days in Ultime Online ( in the "wild" ). Where you always needed to be careful for "red" players in the wild.
What you suggested about robot NPC's sounds a lot like the original city system in Ultime Online. People spawned in the big cities. In those cities you had NPC guards and you had protection from them. If anybody tries to kill a other person, the person initiating the first hit was killed by the guards. You also where able to steal from people in the cities but if anybody called the guards on you ( by literately yelling guards! ), they came and killed the thief. When you left the cities you get a warning that you left the safe zone.
Now, if people wanted to build houses, they needed to leave the safe zone. If they wanted to hunt for monsters / loot etc ... all outside the cities. Cities actually acted like trade centers where people where able to safely do business ( relatively... scamming still happened ).
You had a bank, that you where able to access BUT that bank had very limited storage space. So you where only able to store some of the most valuable things ( like your money and maybe important gear / backup gear ( so if somebody killed you, and you spawned again in the cities, you where able to get back in action fast ) ).
Frankly ... i think THIS is more the direction that Rust needs to go. It perfectly balances raiding vs newbie protection vs community building. But in Ultima Online the carebears won and developers implemented changes that punished "red" players so much for killing people outside the cities that only those that pure grief where left. And well ... it lost it sense of danger and become a boring PvE game after EA made all those changes ( its actually one of the first games that i remember that EA had a hand in, to ruin its gameplay ). And no other games really implemented "non-faction" killing anymore unlike now with Rust and the other survival games.
[QUOTE=C-J...;47675709]How about the caretakers go after fully geared players who mow down naked freshspawns?
This really destroys a big and important part of this game. If you have a Thompson machinegun and is fully geared, there is no reason for you to chase down and kill naked players who doesn't pose any threat what so ever.[/QUOTE]
I was running back to base from a rad town haul through some large bases. I didn't health up, my bad, so my vision was poor. I was attacked by a local resident. He stole my rad town rocket and my hatchet , cleared my belt and then woke me with no weapons. He then dropped me a bow some arrows, food and ran off into the distance like a thief in the night. I licked my wounds and ran back home to restock. Kool guy.
[QUOTE=C-J...;47675709]How about the caretakers go after fully geared players who mow down naked freshspawns?
This really destroys a big and important part of this game. If you have a Thompson machinegun and is fully geared, there is no reason for you to chase down and kill naked players who doesn't pose any threat what so ever.[/QUOTE]
Ym always nacked whit my AK.... what say now?
;)
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47638626]This perceived imbalance is something that's common to any persistent world online game. Better players and large groups will always fare better than small groups and solo players. That's just the way it is. Much like it is in real life. And like real life, you'll fare better if you team up with friends. Got no friends that play Rust? Find people on your server and team up with them. Befriend people that are already in groups and join in with them.
If you like playing as a lone wolf but can't get ahead, then you should consider switching to a quieter server where you won't get repeatedly crushed by larger groups.
After yesterday's wipe, 5 of us went in. In a matter of a few hours, we had a 4 x 4 x 6 built, completely stone inside and out with the first 2 floors completely armoured. No base is unraidable, but at least now we've got a pretty secure base set up. Still need to armour the rest, but now we can now focus on building up our cache of weapons, C4, etc. Playing alone, I never would have been able to get even near that much done in that short a time span.
Like anything, many hands make light work. The game is made for teaming up. I don't see how adding something that punish people that are successful would be helpful. That totally goes against the sandbox paradigm.[/QUOTE]
I'm a solo player who really likes the point that Rust is at currently. I can empathize with OP on this though, I started playing rust back when it was only sold through some obscure EU auction site. When you're first starting its hard to get over some of these bigger groups and how easily they can do things.
With that said... Rust is a hardcore survival game, it takes more than just more-hours of grinding and building to be successful. It takes patience, consideration, and cleverness to be successful in any particular playstyle you desire.
There are [B]A LOT [/B] of different ways to play Rust, that's partly why I love it so much, it combines communities of very different style players into one space and makes them experience a world together.
As the "lone wolf" I primarily play rust alone, and sometimes spawn my friend in so he can experience it on my behalf. The process of surviving as a single person in this game filled with groups of people and tribes who want nothing more than the simple work I've done, is just that; a process.
When I make a base I have to consider so many things.
1. Where are the big clans, where are the big buildings?
This consideration is more than just (steer clear) of those places. Typically what I do is build out far enough not to be in their area of influence, but close enough to catch them running by my base periodically. [I]This makes it easy for me to ambush them and gather better guns that I currently cannot craft[/I]. I only have a pistol BP, but that is more than enough since Bows are quite powerful (another mechanic particularly designed in solo players favor).
2. The bigger your base, the more value it holds in raiders eyes.
Shit, I've made bases and left walls completely open purely to LOOK like I've already been raided. This is LUXURY to me because I only need about 4 - 5 loot boxes to keep all of my shit in. I do some pretty intense management of those boxes, but none-the-less it's an advantage less shit for less people. If you want a secure base, you have to be smart about how other people see it, and what other people are willing to do to get potentially very little loot.
3. Be prepared to lose your shit
If you arn't ready to give up that stockpile of AKs you worked for 2 days killing isolated clansmen getting, then you're not going to optimize the fun-factor of this game. This games not about having good shit and holding it (even if thats how you prefer to play it) it's about the journey to getting there. The more you think of it like that, the more fun you will have I promise.
I've been playing survival games in general for a long time, so the more you play, the more you'll make conclusions about your particular playstyle. I know its hard not to get frustrated and want to make a problem you see better by communicating it to the community but thats another bullet point.
4. Everyone plays different
So when you propose a fix for a problem within your sphere of play-style, the community is going to just tear you down. And its not only because this is the internet, but also because its much harder for them to relate (particularly in survival games like this).
[QUOTE=Jackbronads;47677341]I'm a solo player who really likes the point that Rust is at currently. I can empathize with OP on this though, I started playing rust back when it was only sold through some obscure EU auction site. When you're first starting its hard to get over some of these bigger groups and how easily they can do things.
+ lots of useful words
(cut the quote because it was long, but totally agree with all of it!)
[/QUOTE]
That's called playing with strategy - something a lot of people seem to have issue with. Seems like you get it. You can get by as a lone wolf if you do it right. Most people can't figure out how, so they cry that the game needs to be changed to dumb it down to their level.
There's friend that plays on the server I do that we team up with occasionally. He's mostly a lone wolf. He makes a couple of small bases in remote corners of the map to store shit. But otherwise, he's completely nomadic.
He'll usually suicide in his base and spawn as a naked on the beach somewhere. Within 15 minutes, he's usually completely geared and has a gun. I've made it a point to follow him in freecam to watch him in action, and it's amazing to watch. The guy is just good.
Personally, I'm not that good. lol I die a LOT when playing solo. Hence why I stick to playing with a group of friends.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47677403]That's called playing with strategy - something a lot of people seem to have issue with. Seems like you get it. You can get by as a lone wolf if you do it right. Most people can't figure out how, so they cry that the game needs to be changed to dumb it down to their level.
There's friend that plays on the server I do that we team up with occasionally. He's mostly a lone wolf. He makes a couple of small bases in remote corners of the map to store shit. But otherwise, he's completely nomadic.
He'll usually suicide in his base and spawn as a naked on the beach somewhere. Within 15 minutes, he's usually completely geared and has a gun. I've made it a point to follow him in freecam to watch him in action, and it's amazing to watch. The guy is just good.
Personally, I'm not that good. lol I die a LOT when playing solo. Hence why I stick to playing with a group of friends.[/QUOTE]
And that is SO COOL that he can do that! I like having a plot of land though, and it's very fun to keep rust open in a tab and just listen for my snap-traps to go off, run out and hatchet some dying geared guy and grab his AK.
But really it's whatever play-style gives you that rush of gratitude for what you've done. What is so beautiful about Rust is not only thats its 60 FPS (or around that), but also that the devs really get the point I'm making.
So I'm nothing but optimistic about the future of this game.
Plus... Research tables bro!!
It's such an exciting time to be a solo player right now whats with all these negative vibes OP dammnn
[QUOTE=Jackbronads;47677341]I'm a solo player who really likes the point that Rust is at currently. I can empathize with OP on this though, I started playing rust back when it was only sold through some obscure EU auction site. When you're first starting its hard to get over some of these bigger groups and how easily they can do things.
With that said... Rust is a hardcore survival game, it takes more than just more-hours of grinding and building to be successful. It takes patience, consideration, and cleverness to be successful in any particular playstyle you desire.
There are [B]A LOT [/B] of different ways to play Rust, that's partly why I love it so much, it combines communities of very different style players into one space and makes them experience a world together.
As the "lone wolf" I primarily play rust alone, and sometimes spawn my friend in so he can experience it on my behalf. The process of surviving as a single person in this game filled with groups of people and tribes who want nothing more than the simple work I've done, is just that; a process.
When I make a base I have to consider so many things.
1. Where are the big clans, where are the big buildings?
This consideration is more than just (steer clear) of those places. Typically what I do is build out far enough not to be in their area of influence, but close enough to catch them running by my base periodically. [I]This makes it easy for me to ambush them and gather better guns that I currently cannot craft[/I]. I only have a pistol BP, but that is more than enough since Bows are quite powerful (another mechanic particularly designed in solo players favor).
2. The bigger your base, the more value it holds in raiders eyes.
Shit, I've made bases and left walls completely open purely to LOOK like I've already been raided. This is LUXURY to me because I only need about 4 - 5 loot boxes to keep all of my shit in. I do some pretty intense management of those boxes, but none-the-less it's an advantage less shit for less people. If you want a secure base, you have to be smart about how other people see it, and what other people are willing to do to get potentially very little loot.
3. Be prepared to lose your shit
If you arn't ready to give up that stockpile of AKs you worked for 2 days killing isolated clansmen getting, then you're not going to optimize the fun-factor of this game. This games not about having good shit and holding it (even if thats how you prefer to play it) it's about the journey to getting there. The more you think of it like that, the more fun you will have I promise.
I've been playing survival games in general for a long time, so the more you play, the more you'll make conclusions about your particular playstyle. I know its hard not to get frustrated and want to make a problem you see better by communicating it to the community but thats another bullet point.
4. Everyone plays different
So when you propose a fix for a problem within your sphere of play-style, the community is going to just tear you down. And its not only because this is the internet, but also because its much harder for them to relate (particularly in survival games like this).[/QUOTE]
Great post! Thx for sharing.
[QUOTE=Jackbronads;47677600]But really it's whatever play-style gives you that rush of gratitude for what you've done.[/QUOTE]
And that's what a sandbox SHOULD be. However, the less creative tend to want to force artificial restrictions or penalties on players that are successful.
I KNOW I suck as a solo player. Yes, I'm getting better, but I know I can't hack it. So I play in a group where my strengths (planning and base design) can be put to good use. And I certainly don't want to see the game dumbed down so that I can play solo more easily.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47677806]And that's what a sandbox SHOULD be. However, the less creative tend to want to force artificial restrictions or penalties on players that are successful.
I KNOW I suck as a solo player. Yes, I'm getting better, but I know I can't hack it. So I play in a group where my strengths (planning and base design) can be put to good use. And I certainly don't want to see the game dumbed down so that I can play solo more easily.[/QUOTE]
It's not about dumbing it down to make it easier, its about making it more fair and enjoyable for all. Solo should never be easy, but I don't agree in groups operating to ELIMINATE solo play, which is their goal in Rust. Perhaps the clans could start being less like virtual mafias and black market gangs.
Shoot there I go again thinking the Rust gamer(s) cares about a Newman's well being :)
This suggestion basically amounts to "I don't like the way players do X so I demand that a giant robot come in and make everyone play the way I feel they should play".
You're going to get killed. You're going to get robbed. You're going to kill. You're going to rob. If you can't get a foothold, find a better server to play on. Otherwise, you're like a first-time boxer going up against a gang of heavyweights, getting his ass kicked, and then demanding that the rep impose a laundry list of arbitrary rules on the heavyweights because "it isn't fair".
Nobody cares about your Newman. If you think that's the core underlying principle of Rust, you've got the wrong game.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47679177]This suggestion basically amounts to "I don't like the way players do X so I demand that a giant robot come in and make everyone play the way I feel they should play".
You're going to get killed. You're going to get robbed. You're going to kill. You're going to rob. If you can't get a foothold, find a better server to play on. Otherwise, you're like a first-time boxer going up against a gang of heavyweights, getting his ass kicked, and then demanding that the rep impose a laundry list of arbitrary rules on the heavyweights because "it isn't fair".
Nobody cares about your Newman. If you think that's the core underlying principle of Rust, you've got the wrong game.[/QUOTE]
Also a good point, there are certain servers for certain playstyles. That could be another bullet point altogether
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47679177]This suggestion basically amounts to "I don't like the way players do X so I demand that a giant robot come in and make everyone play the way I feel they should play".
You're going to get killed. You're going to get robbed. You're going to kill. You're going to rob. If you can't get a foothold, find a better server to play on. Otherwise, you're like a first-time boxer going up against a gang of heavyweights, getting his ass kicked, and then demanding that the rep impose a laundry list of arbitrary rules on the heavyweights because "it isn't fair".
Nobody cares about your Newman. If you think that's the core underlying principle of Rust, you've got the wrong game.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. And the beauty of Rust is we have all these servers available.
If someone can't hack it solo on a busy server, it's best to just move to a quieter server where a solo player has a better chance. I know that if I play solo, I've got a snowball's chance in hell of surviving long enough to even build a house on even a moderately populated server. So when I want to play solo, I go to a quieter server or a modded one where the odds are much more in my favour to get established. But honestly, I'd just rather play with friends.
The "but I want to play on THAT high pop server solo so change the game so I can do it" gets old.
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