Poll about 3rd person view in Rust. - Rust

i saw a video of somebody creating the 3rd person camera to have no advantage. forgot the name of the test game, vampire or someshit.

I am against 3'rd person view. Mainly because It would give more viewing capabilities to everyone. For example U could peek on ppl while hiding behind wall/rock and having 0 line of sight with anyone. It happens on DayZ and it will happen here.

Yea I don't like the idea of third-person. I realize that the game doesn't have to be (and can't be) 100% realistic but I'd still prefer it to err on the side of realism -- a magical floating camera that you can move around you is not realistic. Not to mention how ripe for exploitation this would be... glitching the camera through walls, looking behind or above things that you wouldn't normally be able to... If people would have the choice then whatever, that's fine. But I'll definitely only play on servers that have first-person locked on.

I honestly don't understand why Garry is even thinking about adding a 3rd person view to the game. What's the benefit? In which way will it improve Rust?

[QUOTE=RBMK1000;44728889]I honestly don't understand why Garry is even thinking about adding a 3rd person view to the game. What's the benefit? In which way will it improve Rust?[/QUOTE] Exactly my thoughts, man! I just can't understand WHY.

[QUOTE=Zelex;44728767]i saw a video of somebody creating the 3rd person camera to have no advantage. forgot the name of the test game, vampire or someshit.[/QUOTE] It's absolutely possible. The problem is most developers don't care enough to to implement such checks, some even consider third person camera exploiting a feature or "clever use of game mechanics".

For those who didn't see it, this is what Garry said on reddit: [I]"My plan right now is to allow servers owners to choose between force first person, force third person, client choose. By default, on community/official servers it will be toggleable on the clientside. Third person obviously does give players an advantage in terms of looking around corners etc.. but if everyone has the ability to be in third person mode I don't see it as a balance thing."[/I]

[QUOTE=Shavasku;44726012]Toggle doesn't make ANY sense. It's just like the turning grass on/off. Everyone is basically forced to turn grass off at the moment because if you don't, those who do will have an advantage and will spot you easier. In the same way, those who play with third person view would cleary have an advantage over players who play on first person view. Again, everyone would be forced into third view and the gameplay would change in a way that it wouldn't look like Rust. The feeling of the unknown is the main thing that made this game so fun. Again: third person view would ruin that. Seriously, I really hope Rust stays in first person view. This is the worst idea since the lockpick and I simply fail to see why they are thinking about doing it.[/QUOTE] You're forgetting there are some people who don't pvp...that being said, I don't know this percentage. Maybe it's less than 1%? Maybe when Rust is complete they won't have pve? I won't play the game then...but in the meantime I will...so the toggle would work for me. I find it similar to say, GTA...whereby I enjoy the ragdoll physics of my avatar eating dust...I can't enjoy that in 1st person...again, just saying

[QUOTE=Shavasku;44728910]Exactly my thoughts, man! I just can't understand WHY.[/QUOTE] why NOT? he wants us to be able to do anything we can dream of. like a glorified lego table with infinite blocks and better graphics. the only downside to it, when you get down to it, is that YOU and others like you DO NOT like it. there are many others that do. and as i stated it will be an option to force fp or someone will make a plugin to do just that. allowing EVERYONE to play as they please. games ARE supposed to be fun guys. unfortunately some guys only have fun ruining others.

[QUOTE=Na0cho;44728991] games ARE supposed to be fun guys. unfortunately some guys only have fun ruining others.[/QUOTE] Exactly, stated perfectly.

Funny story [url]https://trello.com/#c/EreYQ3Ty/18-third-person-toggle[/url]

As long as it is not forced upon everyone, but as stated, that the server owners will be able to set it to whatever they want, nothing will really change. People who don't like 3rd person will be able to play on 1st person servers and vice versa.

I would prefer to have adjustable 1st person, like alt+mouse and you can look around while keeping your direction of motion, but 3rd person is fine too.

[QUOTE=GoodGorilla;44729408]As long as it is not forced upon everyone, but as stated, that the server owners will be able to set it to whatever they want, nothing will really change. People who don't like 3rd person will be able to play on 1st person servers and vice versa.[/QUOTE] Look again at DayZ. What do most servers allow? Where is the population? With this in mind any FP people are going to be screwed over from many choices. People are going to use the best method to compete. The only way I think 3rd person could be implemented with some type of balance is the locked over the shoulder type like dead space. No free camera view. [img] http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111107164346/deadspace/images/5/5b/Dead_Space_2011-01-05_02-18-08-82.jpg[/img] Another thing I think Gary and co are doing is opening a can of worms bigger than their development team. Game developers specifically when making third person make the back side of characters look interesting. This is done with lots of animations that hold up under scrutiny, interactions such as bleeding, and having incredibly interesting clothing or customization. These all require a much larger team for all the art and animations. Rust works now because that scrutiny isn't present/required. You only really need most of the first person standard animations and it works with a bunch of naked people. You add third person to this, a developer as shown above is going to have to account for many more variables.

[QUOTE=oXYnary;44729933] Another thing I think Gary and co are doing is opening a can of worms bigger than their development team. Game developers specifically when making third person make the back side of characters look interesting. This is done with lots of animations that hold up under scrutiny, interactions such as bleeding, and having incredibly interesting clothing or customization. These all require a much larger team for all the art and animations. Rust works now because that scrutiny isn't present/required. You only really need most of the first person standard animations and it works with a bunch of naked people. You add third person to this, a developer as shown above is going to have to account for many more variables.[/QUOTE] That's another good point against third person view which I haven't thought of.

I voted for both. Let the server owners decide. Everyone should be happy then.

By the way, why didn't you just put a poll on the thread instead of linking to some outside website for it?

[QUOTE=Amish;44730336]I voted for both. Let the server owners decide. Everyone should be happy then.[/QUOTE] My only issue with this is that once the third-person feature is created it won't be long before a hack is made that allows players to use third-person on servers that disable it.

[QUOTE=Na0cho;44728991]the only downside to it, when you get down to it, is that YOU and others like you DO NOT like it. there are many others that do. and as i stated it will be an option to force fp or someone will make a plugin to do just that. allowing EVERYONE to play as they please. games ARE supposed to be fun guys. unfortunately some guys only have fun ruining others.[/QUOTE] Exactly, Nacho, well put. Let me give you an example: I want to fly. Not in a plane... I want to fly around the Rust map like superman. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for special privileges... everyone can have the option to fly. We can pass each other in the air and dogfight with pistols. We can fly up and float outside peoples' houses, breaking right into their loot rooms... just as they can do the same to me. You don't want to fly? You don't have to. 'll play the game the way I want to and you do the same... that way everybody wins! That's what would make Rust "fun" for me. And we should all get to play the game the way we want, right? Oh, and I also want forcefields I can craft from metal fragments and laser pointers, and rideable pink ponies that shit rainbows and vomit random blueprints.

[QUOTE=Na0cho;44728991]he wants us to be able to do anything we can dream of. like a glorified lego table with infinite blocks and better graphics.[/QUOTE] I think you have Garry confused with Notch. Having mechanisms that support emergent gameplay is not the same as completely open ended.

[QUOTE=Murdo;44731051]Exactly, Nacho, well put. Let me give you an example: I want to fly. Not in a plane... I want to fly around the Rust map like superman. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for special privileges... everyone can have the option to fly. We can pass each other in the air and dogfight with pistols. We can fly up and float outside peoples' houses, breaking right into their loot rooms... just as they can do the same to me. You don't want to fly? You don't have to. 'll play the game the way I want to and you do the same... that way everybody wins! That's what would make Rust "fun" for me. And we should all get to play the game the way we want, right? Oh, and I also want forcefields I can craft from metal fragments and laser pointers, and rideable pink ponies that shit rainbows and vomit random blueprints.[/QUOTE] With all due respect, your comparative examples are [I]quite a leap away[/I] from 3rd person view.

[QUOTE=hippowombat;44731308]With all due respect, your comparative examples are [I]quite a leap away[/I] from 3rd person view.[/QUOTE] So you don't have a problem with the principle of "we should all be able to interface with the game however we want to", as long as it meets your subjective scale of acceptability? The concept is fine, but flying is a bit "too much" in your opinion? I'm struggling to find a reasonable comparative example of something with the gameplay-breaking potential of TPV to use as contrast. Imagine if you couldn't screw with your gamma or install third party target reticules, if those workarounds to the gameplay features (dark nights and realistic aiming) Garry apparently wants weren't available. Imagine if Facepunch made it server-toggleable options to have a useful target reticule or have nighttime appear as a soft glow dusk twilight. What would be the point of them? How far down the server list would you have to scroll to find low-population "Nostalgia" servers where these options were turned off?

I think the longer Garry can hold the line at keeping Rust a very hardcore, challenging experience, the better. Where thoughtful, careful, or even reckless play might win the day depending on luck and the situation. Rust is not for the lazy, not for the feint of heart...yet, the forces of the marketplace will, over time, reward the game for becoming weaksauce, as it captures a larger "playerbase" and wins "universal appeal." 3rd Person view is one of the steps leading down into that pit of lazy, vacuous, unfulfilling play. We see it in virtually every FPS already out there. The lack of crutches for the weak is what I love about Rust. Lockpicks threatened to take that away, but Garry wised up at the last minute. The longer Garry can avoid taking that step, the better, in my view. I'm firmly against 3rd Person. It's not going to make the game better, but it will allow more sales to weaksauce players so its probably inevitable.

[QUOTE=Dionysus9;44733780]I think the longer Garry can hold the line at keeping Rust a very hardcore, challenging experience, the better. Where thoughtful, careful, or even reckless play might win the day depending on luck and the situation. Rust is not for the lazy, not for the feint of heart...yet, the forces of the marketplace will, over time, reward the game for becoming weaksauce, as it captures a larger "playerbase" and wins "universal appeal." 3rd Person view is one of the steps leading down into that pit of lazy, vacuous, unfulfilling play. We see it in virtually every FPS already out there. The lack of crutches for the weak is what I love about Rust. Lockpicks threatened to take that away, but Garry wised up at the last minute. The longer Garry can avoid taking that step, the better, in my view. I'm firmly against 3rd Person. It's not going to make the game better, but it will allow more sales to weaksauce players so its probably inevitable.[/QUOTE] You couldn't have said it better. That's exactly what I fear most... the game becoming too easy just because some people can't handle it. And hey, I didn't fear that at all on the past based on Garry's statements (mainly about bad karma, etc).

Over the shoulder lock would be good

It would probably ruin the game imo.

We can only hope it will end up like lockpicks. Disregarded and not default.

This topic is very important for the game. Should stay on the top for more discussion.

Either make it shoulder locked like others have stated, or keep it first person. Having the option of both is just a slippery slope that will end with everyone using third person anyway, as the server owners will try to cater to whichever player base fills their server the easiest. The more server options that are added into the game for "diversity" sake is just going to make it harder to find a server you like with people playing in it. Unless rust can keep 50,000 players online every day all day, I don't see the point in dividing the community so relentlessly. Keep the players in the same pool, make it one or the other!

It makes perfect sense, third person view appeals to more casual gamers and casual gamers = $$$$!