The mentality in the testing is horrible - Rust

I understand your pain from the gameplay being messed up from the abuse. In general though I have to disagree. For starters, this is not a select bunch of alpha testers, the game is available for anyone and everyone and you have to expect the very best to the very worst to join. But this is a time to weed out all of the game breaking issues, it is usualy the clans that are the worst for this behavior of keeping exploits for release to gain the advantage. As you can imagine a group of people will find and share a lot more than a solo person will and if the mentality in the clan is to abuse exploits then this is what will happen. Every wipe starts the same, the game play is good for a while but sooner or later you start to here of the large raiding groups roaming around with huge amounts of c4 destroying and griefing everything in sight then a few days later the foundation stacks are found which is about the best proof positive there is. What I am trying to state here is that, known bugs and exploits in the hands of a few clans makes the gameplay terrible for the rest of the people. Frankly if the exploits are out in the open as soon as found at least there is an even playing field. The worse the effect on the game the more it forces the hands of the devs to focus on the game breaking issues sooner rather than later. In the case of duping, this is not all bad at all, it can give the devs a screen shot into the future of building. The case of the pve server tower being a good one. In short I would prefer to see more open reports of exploits as I believe it will help get the game get to where it needs to be faster. From your posts the feeling i get is that you want the game to be enjoyable as a polished game right now, i understand this need, but its not where the game is at is it. In even shorter, all i see going on is nothing new.

Sad.. so much corruption.. Former duper's crying about duping going viral but it's OK to dupe for themselves in secret.. Jeeze give me a break hyper-critic's. Half the loser's that lag switch/dupe only do so for many reasons whenever it is to troll,lazy or for competitive purposes. This game seems to becoming more about the individuals needs than the gaming community. (Wipe playrust.net score boards and we will see who is laughing then... Most of the top players lag switch anyways...)

[QUOTE=Xquette;42281536]You know, No one of my team dupe. That's all. We don't have a big village, We just have like 5 houses. The dupe bug is back on the server. And again, No one in my team use it. Well that's not the question. We've somes screenshot and vidéos of your team when the first dupe bug is on the server, You can't deny it. Maybe Rama said " No bro' i never dupe ". But.. We don't care. And again, French are not the only one who usebug. Just remember this and don't blame French again.[/QUOTE] I have shown a lot of glitches and bugs for the developers. And as Feinter said, i doubt that you guys have even though of reporting the dupe glitch or anything else you have found. If people don't tell about the glitches and bugs for the developers, they wont be fixed.

[QUOTE=Shadow Walker;42277933]I don't understand the competition on who found it first. Shouldn't we all be working together to submit bugs/exploits and not acting like a bunch of kids yelling "I found it first!!" This has to be the worst group of testers ive seen. Lets help the these devs get this info without being a bunch of kids.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rama214;42281833]I have shown a lot of glitches and bugs for the developers. And as Feinter said, i doubt that you guys have even though of reporting the dupe glitch or anything else you have found. If people don't tell about the glitches and bugs for the developers, they wont be fixed.[/QUOTE] Your one of the few who thinks this way like me and Feinter. But geuss people don't wanna understand. Something tells me there just 14 year olds who like to f shit up.

[QUOTE=Orix;42281762]I understand your pain from the gameplay being messed up from the abuse. In general though I have to disagree. For starters, this is not a select bunch of alpha testers, the game is available for anyone and everyone and you have to expect the very best to the very worst to join. But this is a time to weed out all of the game breaking issues, it is usualy the clans that are the worst for this behavior of keeping exploits for release to gain the advantage. As you can imagine a group of people will find and share a lot more than a solo person will and if the mentality in the clan is to abuse exploits then this is what will happen. Every wipe starts the same, the game play is good for a while but sooner or later you start to here of the large raiding groups roaming around with huge amounts of c4 destroying and griefing everything in sight then a few days later the foundation stacks are found which is about the best proof positive there is. What I am trying to state here is that, known bugs and exploits in the hands of a few clans makes the gameplay terrible for the rest of the people. Frankly if the exploits are out in the open as soon as found at least there is an even playing field. The worse the effect on the game the more it forces the hands of the devs to focus on the game breaking issues sooner rather than later. In the case of duping, this is not all bad at all, it can give the devs a screen shot into the future of building. The case of the pve server tower being a good one. In short I would prefer to see more open reports of exploits as I believe it will help get the game get to where it needs to be faster. From your posts the feeling i get is that you want the game to be enjoyable as a polished game right now, i understand this need, but its not where the game is at is it. In even shorter, all i see going on is nothing new.[/QUOTE] I definitely understand your point. Let me try to break this down; [QUOTE]For starters, this is not a select bunch of alpha testers, the game is available for anyone and everyone and you have to expect the very best to the very worst to join. But this is a time to weed out all of the game breaking issues, it is usualy the clans that are the worst for this behavior of keeping exploits for release to gain the advantage. As you can imagine a group of people will find and share a lot more than a solo person will and if the mentality in the clan is to abuse exploits then this is what will happen.[/QUOTE] Yes the clans are the worst because they do share their glitches among each other - However in the perfect testing phase, the clan would find the bug, have one person report it and they never use it again, instead of breaking the game with lagswitching etc. [QUOTE]What I am trying to state here is that, known bugs and exploits in the hands of a few clans makes the gameplay terrible for the rest of the people. Frankly if the exploits are out in the open as soon as found at least there is an even playing field. [B][U]The worse the effect on the game the more it forces the hands of the devs to focus on the game breaking issues sooner rather than later[/U][/B].[/QUOTE] Again a similar part of "forcing" devs to do things comes up, what kind of mentality is this? - Don't you think they're already working on it? Don't you think they have tons of other things to take care of aswell? What would you prioritize? [QUOTE]In short I would prefer to see more open reports of exploits as I believe it will help get the game get to where it needs to be faster. From your posts the feeling i get is that you want the game to be enjoyable as a polished game right now, i understand this need, but its not where the game is at is it.[/QUOTE] There are already tons of bug reports - and I'll bet you they're looking into every single one of them. - Putting them out in the open might have a quickening effect, but it's the wrong kind. If you think I want a polished game in an Alpha state, you are dead wrong. Like I've said I have been in on many game tests before, this is not my first. I even study game design so I know how this works. Did you ever hear of the term "a game is never finished"? All I want, seek and miss is a playable Alpha where testers are there to find glitches, help the devs solve them and not abuse them to break the game and ruin the testing for other players.

[QUOTE=Feinter;42281975]I definitely understand your point. Let me try to break this down; Yes the clans are the worst because they do share their glitches among each other - However in the perfect testing phase, the clan would find the bug, have one person report it and they never use it again, instead of breaking the game with lagswitching etc. Again a similar part of "forcing" devs to do things comes up, what kind of mentality is this? - Don't you think they're already working on it? Don't you think they have tons of other things to take care of aswell? What would you prioritize? There are already tons of bug reports - and I'll bet you they're looking into every single one of them. - Putting them out in the open might have a quickening effect, but it's the wrong kind. If you think I want a polished game in an Alpha state, you are dead wrong. Like I've said I have been in on many game tests before, this is not my first. I even study game design so I know how this works. Did you ever hear of the term "a game is never finished"? All I want, seek and miss is a playable Alpha where testers are there to find glitches, help the devs solve them and not abuse them to break the game and ruin the testing for other players.[/QUOTE] I can't agree more! There are the days where testers where testers instead they abuse the f of the bugs these days. When the days come they smash duping in to the ground thats they days the f children in this topic leave the game.

Well thats all fine, but the part i posted about this being open to everyone and anyone to buy and not being a select group of testers is where it all falls down. I have seen this exact kind of behaviour in every full loot open pvp game in an open test phase i have been in (which is not a lot...but still). As for forcing issues onto devs, I don't see a problem with it, it just gives a clear priority list for them whats so bad about that? and like I already stated, some of these abuses are not all bad. But these things kind of stray away from the main topic. I don't see how exploits being kept secret to a few power playing clans is good for anyone. you can not control everyone and how they use that knowledge (alt accounts etc...). Without active banning and anti hacker policies in place coupled with a game open to purchase you are going to suffer these problems. I would claim that the problems you have should not be aimed at the community...given the set up it was to be expected. Perhaps the issue is with the setup...but then you have to blame people you probably don't want to blame.

[QUOTE=Orix;42282188]Well thats all fine, but the part i posted about this being open to everyone and anyone to buy and not being a select group of testers is where it all falls down. I have seen this exact kind of behaviour in every full loot open pvp game in an open test phase i have been in (which is not a lot...but still). As for forcing issues onto devs, I don't see an problem with it, it just gives a clear priority list for them whats so bad about that? and like I already stated, some of these abuses are not all bad. But these things kind of stray away from the main topic. I don't see how exploits being kept secret to a few power playing clans is good for anyone. you can not control everyone and how they use that knowledge (alt accounts etc...). Without active banning and anti hacker policies in place coupled with a game open to purchase you are going to suffer these problems. I would claim that the problems you have should not be aimed at the community...given the set up it was to be expected. Perhaps the issue is with the setup...but then you have to blame people you probably don't want to blame.[/QUOTE] This thread isnt meant as a call out to devs to start banning left and right. Its a call out to the testers - open test or not - to actually just consider to test instead of finding something and then abusing it without letting devs know or just abusing it at your liking.

[QUOTE=Feinter;42282200]This thread isnt meant as a call out to devs to start banning left and right. Its a call out to the testers - open test or not - to actually just consider to test instead of finding something and then abusing it without letting devs know or just abusing it at your liking.[/QUOTE] To be honest abusers are kind of helping because they make it more of a problem and kind of make people like yourself come on the forum to call it out. The more they abuse and cause a problem the higher up on the list it becomes for the devs.

[QUOTE=darkhorse325;42282221]To be honest abusers are kind of helping because they make it more of a problem and kind of make people like yourself come on the forum to call it out. The more they abuse and cause a problem the higher up on the list it becomes for the devs.[/QUOTE] Once again the pushing things onto devs come up. Yes its a major problem, it wouldnt be as big as a problem if you as a tester found the bug, reported it and then left it alone. That way the devs would still work on it.

[QUOTE=Orix;42282188]Well thats all fine, but the part i posted about this being open to everyone and anyone to buy and not being a select group of testers is where it all falls down. I have seen this exact kind of behaviour in every full loot open pvp game in an open test phase i have been in (which is not a lot...but still). As for forcing issues onto devs, I don't see an problem with it, it just gives a clear priority list for them whats so bad about that? and like I already stated, some of these abuses are not all bad. But these things kind of stray away from the main topic. [B]I don't see how exploits being kept secret to a few power playing clans is good for anyone. you can not control everyone and how they use that knowledge (alt accounts etc...). [/B]Without active banning and anti hacker policies in place coupled with a game open to purchase you are going to suffer these problems. I would claim that the problems you have should not be aimed at the community...given the set up it was to be expected. Perhaps the issue is with the setup...but then you have to blame people you probably don't want to blame.[/QUOTE] This is a huge issue right now. These are the ones who get cocky act like asshats on the server and pretend they are privileged. I cant count on my hands how many times Ive seen players brag how Helk is in their TS and how they have privileged information. Even LaziestNoob telling us Helk was giving him permission to lag-switch our entire clan. This is unacceptable behavior for testers.

Well, it won't happen :( this is the interwebz. and sorry for ruining your thread in that case.

Telling it straight like it is OP. Respect to that. You're right though. None of the testers seem to understand testing. This isn't mine craft where you just complain about lag, bugs etc and how the game isn't done, you tell the secs how to perform these things so they can fix them. Kids gotta stop focusing on gameplay and map resets until it's actually a working game and not a work in progress.

[QUOTE=Shadow Walker;42282230]This is a huge issue right now. These are the ones who get cocky act like asshats on the server and pretend they are privileged. I cant count on my hands how many times Ive seen players brag how Helk is in their TS and how they have privileged information. Even LaziestNoob telling us Helk was giving him permission to lag-switch our entire clan. This is unacceptable behavior for testers.[/QUOTE] Please don't let this be War Z the second. I don't think Helk does that tbh.

[QUOTE=Shadow Walker;42282230]This is a huge issue right now. These are the ones who get cocky act like asshats on the server and pretend they are privileged. I cant count on my hands how many times Ive seen players brag how Helk is in their TS and how they have privileged information. Even LaziestNoob telling us Helk was giving him permission to lag-switch our entire clan. This is unacceptable behavior for testers.[/QUOTE] To be fair Shadow, you guys are breaking the game at the moment at any chance you get. You're the kind of type I would not call fit for testing a game. I also really do not think Helk literally told laziest to go and nstep you. Even when you guys only do nstep. [editline]23rd September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Orix;42282238]Well, it won't happen :( this is the interwebz. and sorry for ruining your thread in that case.[/QUOTE] Nothing was ruined. - If anything it only made the thread clearer.

[QUOTE=Feinter;42282262]To be fair Shadow, you guys are breaking the game at the moment at any chance you get. You're the kind of type I would not call fit for testing a game.[/Quote] Oh we are? How about the 100 story metal buildings that are lagging entire resource areas? A. Testers abusing known bugs excessively B. Extremely competitive clans/groups destroying everything to be the "best" on the servers C. Testers not reporting bugs D. Testers trying to impersonate/frame other groups to make them look bad This is a testing environment not a full game. None of the above should be going on. D. [B]Shouldn't even be an issue, the name changing feature should be removed or disabled until a further date which it is actually valid to use[/B]. Right now it only makes the servers more exploitable by giving tools to impersonators, making other players look bad. We should all have a static name so we do not have to worry about this.

[QUOTE=Shadow Walker;42282302]D. [B]Shouldn't even be an issue, the name changing feature should be removed or disabled until a further date which it is actually valid to use[/B]. Right now it only makes the servers more exploitable by giving tools to impersonators, making other players look bad. We should all have a static name so we do not have to worry about this.[/QUOTE] Wait, let me get this straight. Are you trying to cover and hinting towards that alot of people are going around with your CLAN TAG with DIFFERENT NAMES nstepping people trying to frame you? Or are you just slightly touching and calling out the issue?

I couldn't agree more with this post. Everyone is treating this as a finished game. Look back through the first couple posts on this forum, it makes me wish I was part of that original group that tested this out.

[QUOTE=Feinter;42282330]Wait, let me get this straight. Are you trying to cover and hinting towards that alot of people are going around with your CLAN TAG with DIFFERENT NAMES nstepping people trying to frame you? Or are you just slightly touching and calling out the issue?[/QUOTE] Oh so now it comes down to slinging shit, I don't even know why I attempt to make this game better. Its pretty fucking obvious kids are running around with the DES tag on an using our names to make us look bad. 2 days ago I log in to see someone named exactly like me talking about how he was recruiting for us and "Lag-switching" was a requirement. You must be too caught up in your 25 viewer fame to pay enough attention to see this.

[QUOTE=Shadow Walker;42282358]Oh so now it comes down to slinging shit, I don't even know why I attempt to make this game better. Its pretty fucking obvious kids are running around with the DES tag on an using our names to make us look bad. 2 days ago I log in to see someone named exactly like me talking about how he was recruiting for us and "Lag-switching" was a requirement. You must be too caught up in your 25 viewer fame to pay enough attention to see this.[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to sling shit, I am however trying to sling down your riddiculous excuses, just like this one. However I wanna keep this thread on track, we can settle this in another forum or PM if you want to.

I think everyone is forgetting very important fact. Most people are not testers most people bought game because they don't care what state it is they just wanna play it.. Thats why dutch sale was a bad idea because it opened doors to everyone instead giving out limited amount of alpha keys to limited number of people who would actualy give craps about testing!

[QUOTE=Feinter;42281421]... Normally when you find a glitch, a bug or an exploit; you write it down, you send it to the devs and the devs will work it out in time - that should be it. Instead in RUST it goes in different ways depending on which person actually finds the glitch. I've seen cases where people has litteraly just been keeping glitches and exploits secret and abusing them at their own liking. - Secret meant in this sentence as a secret to the devs. Recently there has also been a lot of talking about "who found things first" and who should "get credit". - Alpha testing is not a fame contest, no testing is. Personally what I find the worst, are the people who are making guides on how to perform game breaking glitches and even how to exploit them even further.....[/QUOTE] No offence to them but this is largely the creators fault. The fact it is an open (paid) alpha, and the fact they have absolutely no structure. Most tests I have done they have a schedule or something to fill out when your in game, or some specific mechanic they want you to test. Also the devs would be a little more present (something that shouldn't be to hard considering there only 3 servers.) ANYONE can join that can pay, there is little dev presence on server, the feedback system is weak, and there is little to no organization/structure. Of course were are going to get many immature kids trying to win an alpha. [QUOTE=Spreadinator;42282663]I think everyone is forgetting very important fact. Most people are not testers most people bought game because they don't care what state it is they just wanna play it.. Thats why dutch sale was a bad idea because it opened doors to everyone instead giving out limited amount of alpha keys to limited number of people who would actualy give craps about testing![/QUOTE] this

[QUOTE=nate252;42283068] Of course were are going to get many immature kids trying to win an alpha. [/QUOTE] Thats why i think we should make any exploit public like with the duping. I rather be able to use the same exploit till it get fixed then getting owned by a "kid" that is using it but isnt reporting to devs. [QUOTE=Helk;42277630]We're going to try and get all these dupe issues resolved on Monday.[/QUOTE] This was a response to the "dupe video" thread. So magically they try to fix a dupe that people know of for weeks and didnt report [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42274175]In an ideal world they'd report it with a repro case to us — but the simple fact that we're now aware that it exists is already pushing us halfway there[/QUOTE] Here another quote that they were not aware of how the dupe was done before. They state even that they didnt know it existed. People need to grow balls and report exploits like this.

OP has obviously not tested a lot of MMOs or any other competitive game before if he thinks this community is unique. Any game where an advantage can be gained by abusing bugs / glitches will have this kind of thing happening. It's happened in every MMO alpha/beta I've been in, ever and I've been in most everything since the Asheron's Call / Everquest days. That being said, yeah, these people are poor testers, but what do you expect when half the community is children in their early teens, they don't care about helping the game, they care about "winning".

I completely agree. We, as alpha players, are in a sense testers. Yet, you need to take into account, the people who are playing the game to play the game, even if it's breaking it, or exploiting it. There will always be the good testers and the people who just exploit it.

I completely agree with this. There are a ton of people out there that use exploits that only they know in order to have an advantage over those who do not know about it. If you know something like a bug or some kind of exploit post it in the bug reports and don't use that exploit. Also I think that any thread that has to do with a dupe glitch or anything that is game breaking I think should be a hidden thread that only the devs can see so that way no one can just dupe like crazy and ruin the game.

[QUOTE=darkhorse325;42282221]To be honest abusers are kind of helping because they make it more of a problem and kind of make people like yourself come on the forum to call it out. The more they abuse and cause a problem the higher up on the list it becomes for the devs.[/QUOTE] I think they could possibly be making it more stressful for the devs. The more people who exploit a certain glitch, the more people who whine about it, the more stress is exerted on the devs to get it done asap.

There's also the "IT'S AN ALPHA STOP REPORTING BUGS HOLY SHIT" mentality that a bunch of dumb fucks can't wrap how stupid it is around their heads and continue to use "IT'S AN ALPHA HURR DURR" as an excuse for every bug mentioned here.

Shadow Walker, it was part of the name changing feature, and anyways if you weren't abusing lag-switch, no one would of even started impersonating you saying "it's a requirement to join". I know how to lag switch(since the video got posted), but guess what, I didn't even try it because it's not suppose to be part of the game. The bug will be fixed and that's that. I'll just keep playing legit until it's fixed even if it means getting killed by people like you abusing it. Honestly, I don't see how you come here on your big horse saying you're trying to get this game better when YOU are one of these "bad tester" talked about in the recent threads.