Solution for griefing. - Rust

Maximum over this is a thread about cupboards. I hate this fucking stupid guys which say: built better or i cant plan a house. Every house can be griefed. So in your opinion is every builder an idiot which must learn to plan. I think i can plan a house much more than you. Maximum when a guy was raided by 40C4 and griefed what would you say?? Plan better?? guys like you make me angry.they dont add something to the discussion. They can only say: build better

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607160]Maximum over this is a thread about cupboards.[/quote] And your idea about cupboards is a bad one. Sorry if that wasn't abundantly clear from my and other peoples' posts above. [quote]Maximum when a guy was raided by 40C4 and griefed what would you say??[/quote] I'd say you're going to get griefed, and it's funny that you think requiring another 2 C4 to blow up the cupboard would stop that.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607160]Maximum over this is a thread about cupboards. I hate this fucking stupid guys which say: built better or i cant plan a house. Every house can be griefed. So in your opinion is every builder an idiot which must learn to plan. I think i can plan a house much more than you. Maximum when a guy was raided by 40C4 and griefed what would you say?? Plan better?? guys like you make me angry.they dont add something to the discussion. They can only say: build better[/QUOTE] I think you're focusing too much on his "build better" point and missing the "they worked for it" one. You said that it took them 6 C4 and many pick axes to get to your cupboard. If someone puts that much time and effort into finding your cupboard, they deserve to be able to make your base a mess. It's a solid tactic they can use to ensure that you move away or, at the very least, are hampered in your retribution capabilities. What happened to you was not "griefing". You keep saying it was, but it wasn't. Griefing is when someone does something to you [U]just[/U] to cause you grief. The example already given was perfect. Dropping a stone block in front of someone's door gains nothing but the grief of the person inside. That's griefing. No benefit but the lulz. Fucking up someone's base so they can't strike back at you is not griefing. It's strategy.

Sorry but i didnt sae any post which describe why my idea is bad. There was only a few bullshit posts. One guy didnt read my first post and your answer to my idea is build better what is very funny. Maximum how much C4 does i need to capture your house?

[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607676]I think you're focusing too much on his "build better" point and missing the "they worked for it" one. You said that it took them 6 C4 and many pick axes to get to your cupboard. If someone puts that much time and effort into finding your cupboard, they deserve to be able to make your base a mess. It's a solid tactic they can use to ensure that you move away or, at the very least, are hampered in your retribution capabilities. What happened to you was not "griefing". You keep saying it was, but it wasn't. Griefing is when someone does something to you [U]just[/U] to cause you grief. The example already given was perfect. Dropping a stone block in front of someone's door gains nothing but the grief of the person inside. That's griefing. No benefit but the lulz. Fucking up someone's base so they can't strike back at you is not griefing. It's strategy.[/QUOTE] The last line says it all! This is the attitude people dislike with the community of rust. If you want to blow a hole into my treasure and loot everything I have feel free, but " fucking up someone's base so" insert any lame half baked excuse here. It's trying to justify bad behaviour as strategy that gets me. if you want to have an active game then chasing away all of the players from your server does nothing but counter that goal. I have played rust long enough to realize the type of people that frequent it, children basically that get their kicks from kicking puppies when not on line being a colossal cunt.

[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607676]I think you're focusing too much on his "build better" point and missing the "they worked for it" one. You said that it took them 6 C4 and many pick axes to get to your cupboard. If someone puts that much time and effort into finding your cupboard, they deserve to be able to make your base a mess. It's a solid tactic they can use to ensure that you move away or, at the very least, are hampered in your retribution capabilities. What happened to you was not "griefing". You keep saying it was, but it wasn't. Griefing is when someone does something to you [U]just[/U] to cause you grief. The example already given was perfect. Dropping a stone block in front of someone's door gains nothing but the grief of the person inside. That's griefing. No benefit but the lulz. Fucking up someone's base so they can't strike back at you is not griefing. It's strategy.[/QUOTE] Yeah i understand you. I dont want have neighbours which steal my ressources from radtowns---> i grief him. The only point which make me aggressive is the build better suggestion. When the enemy spend tons of C4 then you cant save your cupboard. building better dont help at this points.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607697]Sorry but i didnt sae any post which describe why my idea is bad.[/quote] Me. I'm saying it. I am literally telling you that your idea is bad. Getting mad and resorting to name-calling gives the rest of us a chuckle, but it doesn't really help your case. [quote]Maximum how much C4 does i need to capture your house?[/QUOTE] It depends on which house you're attacking, and which way you want to get in. I usually spread out over multiple locations to help minimize the loss from a breach. You should try it sometime! [QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607737]When the enemy spend tons of C4 then you cant save your cupboard.[/QUOTE] And now you see why your idea is bad. Anyone spending 40 C4 to get into your place isn't going to have a problem spending two more C4 to take out your cupboard. That's not griefing, that's gameplay.

[QUOTE=halfhand2012;48607732]The last line says it all! This is the attitude people dislike with the community of rust. If you want to blow a hole into my treasure and loot everything I have feel free, but " fucking up someone's base so" insert any lame half baked excuse here. It's trying to justify bad behaviour as strategy that gets me. if you want to have an active game then chasing away all of the players from your server does nothing but counter that goal. I have played rust long enough to realize the type of people that frequent it, children basically that get their kicks from kicking puppies when not on line being a colossal cunt.[/QUOTE] The model for Rust gameplay is Try-Fail-Try-Succeed. If someone can't handle failing (frequently, repeatedly and spectacularly), then this is not the game for them. The "children" in this situation are people who think the game should coddle them such that they can immediately succeed at everything. Every time my base gets raided, the next one I build is just a little bit better. It's been a long time since anyone has made it to my tool cupboard. That's because I failed a lot of times before I learned how to make it not worth their while. If the game didn't have these kinds of learning situations, I wouldn't be playing it. [QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607737]Yeah i understand you. I dont want have neighbours which steal my ressources from radtowns---> i grief him. The only point which make me aggressive is the build better suggestion. When the enemy spend tons of C4 then you cant save your cupboard. building better dont help at this points.[/QUOTE] Glad it makes sense. I do think maybe you're taking his remarks too personally. When someone says "You can build better to prevent people from reaching your cupboard", I don't think they mean it literally. What they really mean is that "People can build bases that make it so the cupboard isn't worth getting to". Lots of people do not take the steps necessary to protect their cupboard. The solution is not to make it easier on the guys who are doing it wrong. The solution should be for them to learn from their mistakes and do it better the next time. I guess what I'm saying is that, [U]when used right[/U], the cupboard does what it's intended to do as far as preventing griefing. It's imperfect in other ways, but as a grief prevention mechanism, it's doing fine. No changes needed. And if, like in your situation, where you built well but someone else went through the enormous effort to get to your cupboard anyway, then they deserve their reward. In this case, their reward is free reign of your home.

[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607845]"People can build bases that make it so the cupboard isn't worth getting to".[/quote] Amen. That's the issue that a lot of players miss: raiding shouldn't be impossible; it should be a balance between resource consumption. If I need to spend more resources to raid a building than I'm going to get out of it, then it wasn't worth it. At that point, the raided party has effectively won, because it cost me more to raid them than it would have to do nothing.

Ok i understand what you want to say. When an enemy spend 20C4 it make only 10percent more C4 to grief. But when the enemy spend 6C4 to reach the cupboard it makes 33,33 percent more C4. In the second case the enemy must use 33percent more explosives to grief the enemy, but they dont get more loot. In the first case its very probably that rhey use C4 to destroy the cupboard. I. The 2. case its much less probably that they destroy the cupboard. [editline]3rd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Maximum Over;48607867]Amen. That's the issue that a lot of players miss: raiding shouldn't be impossible; it should be a balance between resource consumption. If I need to spend more resources to raid a building than I'm going to get out of it, then it wasn't worth it. At that point, the raided party has effectively won, because it cost me more to raid them than it would have to do nothing.[/QUOTE] Nobody readed the first post ?? Is it so hard to read and understand a few sentences. In my suggestion i said that only 1Cupboard is allowed in the Cupboard area. It would not affect raiding. The problem is that you critisize my idea but you dont understand my idea. One question: How old are you? [editline]3rd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607845]The model for Rust gameplay is Try-Fail-Try-Succeed. If someone can't handle failing (frequently, repeatedly and spectacularly), then this is not the game for them. The "children" in this situation are people who think the game should coddle them such that they can immediately succeed at everything. Every time my base gets raided, the next one I build is just a little bit better. It's been a long time since anyone has made it to my tool cupboard. That's because I failed a lot of times before I learned how to make it not worth their while. If the game didn't have these kinds of learning situations, I wouldn't be playing it. Glad it makes sense. I do think maybe you're taking his remarks too personally. When someone says "You can build better to prevent people from reaching your cupboard", I don't think they mean it literally. What they really mean is that "People can build bases that make it so the cupboard isn't worth getting to". Lots of people do not take the steps necessary to protect their cupboard. The solution is not to make it easier on the guys who are doing it wrong. The solution should be for them to learn from their mistakes and do it better the next time. I guess what I'm saying is that, [U]when used right[/U], the cupboard does what it's intended to do as far as preventing griefing. It's imperfect in other ways, but as a grief prevention mechanism, it's doing fine. No changes needed. And if, like in your situation, where you built well but someone else went through the enormous effort to get to your cupboard anyway, then they deserve their reward. In this case, their reward is free reign of your home.[/QUOTE] In this post i agree to all points.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607872]Ok i understand what you want to say. When an enemy spend 20C4 it make only 10percent more C4 to grief. But when the enemy spend 6C4 to reach the cupboard it makes 33,33 percent more C4. In the second case the enemy must use 33percent more explosives to grief the enemy, but they dont get more loot. In the first case its very probably that rhey use C4 to destroy the cupboard. I. The 2. case its much less probably that they destroy the cupboard.[/QUOTE] Well, if your complaint is that it's hard to protect a cupboard in a small base, that's a whole different conversation than grief prevention. I don't think it's fair to set up some system where it's just as hard to take over a cupboard in a small base as it is in a big one. The big base took more time, materials and effort and runs the constant risk of looking like a juicy target. A small base takes very little to construct and can be lean and hidden. The trade off here is that if someone does get into your small base, it's gonna get fucked up. I think that's a balanced trade. If you could tinker with the cupboard radius so that small bases could hide better, that would be good though.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607872]Nobody readed the first post ?? Is it so hard to read and understand a few sentences. In my suggestion i said that only 1Cupboard is allowed in the Cupboard area. It would not affect raiding.[/quote] Someone breaking in and hijacking / taking over / accessing / clearing your cupboard isn't griefing, as others have pointed out. That's just straight-up raiding. So yes, protecting your cupboard does impact raiding. The degree to which it has such an impact is determined by your base construction, the skill of the player, and other things. But someone breaking into your home is NOT, by itself, griefing.

Nice to see all these new players who know what Rust is better than people who have been on this forum since legacy lol in any case the game will be what it is, for me it's not going to live up to its potential. No loss though there are plenty of other games that are far further along in a shorter dev cycle, and I think Rust is to thank for that. Rust seems to have broken some ground and I am sure it will hold appeal for certain players, personally I like a game that depends on more than the luck of the draw (referring to who's on your server sick heads or decent folks). Until rust has some PVE threat to the players survival its just another PVP shooter, and there are far better ones out there already.

I never said that raiding is griefing. When an enemy raid a house and find the cupboard he can choose between griefing and not griefing.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48608159]When an enemy raid a house and find the cupboard he can choose between griefing and not griefing.[/QUOTE] And again, your suggestion neither prevents nor increases the difficulty of either. No need to get mad, it's just not a good suggestion.

[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607940]Well, if your complaint is that it's hard to protect a cupboard in a small base, that's a whole different conversation than grief prevention. I don't think it's fair to set up some system where it's just as hard to take over a cupboard in a small base as it is in a big one. The big base took more time, materials and effort and runs the constant risk of looking like a juicy target. A small base takes very little to construct and can be lean and hidden. The trade off you get for those benefits is that if someone does get into your base, it's gonna get fucked up. I think that's a balanced trade. If you could tinker with the cupboard radius so that small hidden bases could hide better, that would be good though.[/QUOTE] Yeah that was the point. Its hard to protect a cupboard in a small house. I think i was not very clear with my explanation. I m happy that have a good conversation now. I agree at this point too. Our opinions are not very different.

[QUOTE=halfhand2012;48608085]Nice to see all these new players who know what Rust is better than people who have been on this forum since legacy lol in any case the game will be what it is, for me it's not going to live up to its potential. No loss though there are plenty of other games that are far further along in a shorter dev cycle, and I think Rust is to thank for that. Rust seems to have broken some ground and I am sure it will hold appeal for certain players, personally I like a game that depends on more than the luck of the draw (referring to who's on your server sick heads or decent folks). Until rust has some PVE threat to the players survival its just another PVP shooter, and there are far better ones out there already.[/QUOTE] I don't know your specifics, but if I turn out to be older than you, does that make me automatically right and you automatically wrong about everything because I've been on Earth longer? Give us a break. If you're done, then quit already. Simultaneously lauding your tenure and bashing the game is the dumbest of the dumb.

the solution to griefing in my eyes (and keep in mind that greifing only differs from raiding via perspective of the players, and what is tolerated by the server community) is active admins controlling the behaviour, and clear cut rules about what constitutes as greifing. cupboards are stop gap, and i think offer too much safety from raiding, and not enough from malicious base destruction; i still think they need to go, and maybe the legacy method returned. for example, a friendly server might state that you are not allowed to break anything other than doors when raiding. a hardcore server might expect the total annihilation of your house, sleeping bags and cupboards, or boxing your house with armoured walls. it all comes down to what people in that server are happy to do/tolerate happening to them.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;48610332]active admins controlling the behaviour, and clear cut rules about what constitutes as greifing.[/QUOTE] Agreed - active admins are what make or break a server. On one of my servers, we have FriendlyTown. Raiding and griefing aren't prohibited within FriendlyTown, but the locals tend to frown on it and actively retaliate against those who do. Outside of FriendlyTown, anything goes. If someone is going to ragequit because someone put a trap in a bush near their house, well ... they can either move to FriendlyTown or man up (or find another server). I can and have walled someone into the base because I wanted to collect a toll in lieu of raiding (rock base; this was before the introduction of ladders). It wasn't griefing, it was strategy.

Question: when raiders have broken in, authorized to your cupboard and are in the process of blocking up doorways, precisely whose house are they "griefing"? Well... ownership is defined by possession, control and legal/authoritative recognition. -Who possesses the house? It appears the raiders do. -Who controls the house, and what happens there? Again, the people currently occupying it with weapons... unless you still have lots of intact metal code-locked doors. -Who is recognized by the law or authority (i.e. the game code) as having the right to make changes to the house? The people on the cupboard list. So in reality, the moment they put their clammy hands on your cupboard, it ceased being "your house"... it either becomes "their house" or "a house", and thus you aren't the one being griefed. We could use conflict zone timers during which all building requires copious old-school hammering (this would discourage post-raid griefing as well as plopping down upgraded defensive walls in the middle of a raid while dodging bullets), but there's always ways to abuse.

The best way is to have an option in the hammer for the administrator to know who has built everything and punish. once they know this already players will return to do that there will be punishment.

[QUOTE=Adolfo;48622303]The best way is to have an option in the hammer for the administrator to know who has built everything and punish. once they know this already players will return to do that there will be punishment.[/QUOTE] Punishment for.... ?

[QUOTE=N4;48622624]Punishment for.... ?[/QUOTE] Punish for building. What a fucking joke. That's a fast way to lose all your players.

[QUOTE=Adolfo;48622303]The best way is to have an option in the hammer for the administrator to know who has built everything and punish. once they know this already players will return to do that there will be punishment.[/QUOTE] Are you serious?

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48623093]Are you serious?[/QUOTE] Punishment for greifing on servers that disallow it. I 100% agree all entities should have a steamid attached if only to provide it to plugins.

[QUOTE='Deicide[RS];48624105']Punishment for greifing on servers that disallow it. I 100% agree all entities should have a steamid attached if only to provide it to plugins.[/QUOTE] When i raid a house and destroy all doors in the house and capture the cupboard then it must be my house. How can this system differ between griefing and normal using the captured house.

[QUOTE='Deicide[RS];48624105']Punishment for greifing on servers that disallow it. I 100% agree all entities should have a steamid attached if only to provide it to plugins.[/QUOTE] How does /sethome know since if you do it on a foundation you/friend didn't build it won't allow you to sethome.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48625669]When i raid a house and destroy all doors in the house and capture the cupboard then it must be my house. How can this system differ between griefing and normal using the captured house.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about capturing a base for your own use, I'm talking about disabling a base. These are two different scenarios. [editline]6th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;48625675]How does /sethome know since if you do it on a foundation you/friend didn't build it won't allow you to sethome.[/QUOTE] There is a plugin that does this which most of the teleport and remove plugins use. While it works it sometimes gets corrupted and also if it ever stops running for whatever reason or you install it mid-wipe then all foundations created while it wasn't running will be ownerless. I really wish fp would track this natively.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48607737]Yeah i understand you. I dont want have neighbours which steal my ressources from radtowns---> i grief him. The only point which make me aggressive is the build better suggestion. When the enemy spend tons of C4 then you cant save your cupboard. building better dont help at this points.[/QUOTE] Thats right. When you're against an enemy much stronger than you are and you cant compete, its not a good idea to build in his backyard. He's gonna raid you for sure. [editline]7th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48608159]I never said that raiding is griefing. When an enemy raid a house and find the cupboard he can choose between griefing and not griefing.[/QUOTE] From wikipedia : A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. Raiding is a very intended way of Rust. That include putting blocks in the house when youre done with it, if you want it. If you found the cupboard, the house is yours. Thats not griefing.

[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48623093]Are you serious?[/QUOTE] Yes, I'm serious, I want to know who built foundations, blocks or unnecessary traps all over the map entities and increasing lag. I also want to know who greifing only to annoy. Raid a house and then knocked out walls and building blocks for all of it nonsense, just to piss off the other players. My server that is punished. Would be nice to know who builds everything (admin only)