[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607845]The model for Rust gameplay is Try-Fail-Try-Succeed. If someone can't handle failing (frequently, repeatedly and spectacularly), then this is not the game for them. [B]The "children" in this situation are people who think the game should coddle them such that they can immediately succeed at everything.[/B][/QUOTE]
I wrote a post before about why this game is not for the casual gamer. Don't confuse "casual" and "children". This is not a life lesson, no game is, so don't treat it like that. Also don't treat complaints like we are complaining about doing chores. People love this game. The problem is that the game is one sided. And that side is the players who have the most time.
If I play 10 hours a week because I have a family/school/full time job/etc... I will get raided/grieved to the point of quitting.
So... The game is in Early Access, good! This means that WE, the casual/noobs/"children" get to voice our opinion. Even if that means we want more balance and better defense.
Even if it goes against the "hardcore" players.
The formula for winning in this game is - Groups + Time = Win. Take either of them out and you fail most of the time.
We don't want anything hand fed to us. We just ask for an even playing field.
Thing is, as soon as the Devs fix this, if they ever do, then more threads like this will pop up but they would be saying how OP buildings are and how weak they should be so that you can raid again, the. It would continue back and fourth.
[QUOTE=Vlku272;48637099]Thing is, as soon as the Devs fix this, if they ever do, then more threads like this will pop up but they would be saying how OP buildings are and how weak they should be so that you can raid again, the. It would continue back and fourth.[/QUOTE]
I agree. And this is a very good thing. It will happen till things a balanced, we hope :pcrepair:
[QUOTE=LootBox;48636656][QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607845]The model for Rust gameplay is Try-Fail-Try-Succeed. If someone can't handle failing (frequently, repeatedly and spectacularly), then this is not the game for them. [B]The "children" in this situation are people who think the game should coddle them such that they can immediately succeed at everything.[/B][/QUOTE]I wrote a post before about why this game is not for the casual gamer. Don't confuse "casual" and "children". This is not a life lesson, no game is, so don't treat it like that. Also don't treat complaints like we are complaining about doing chores. People love this game. The problem is that the game is one sided. And that side is the players who have the most time.
If I play 10 hours a week because I have a family/school/full time job/etc... I will get raided/grieved to the point of quitting.
So... The game is in Early Access, good! This means that WE, the casual/noobs/"children" get to voice our opinion. Even if that means we want more balance and better defense.
Even if it goes against the "hardcore" players.
The formula for winning in this game is - Groups + Time = Win. Take either of them out and you fail most of the time.
We don't want anything hand fed to us. We just ask for an even playing field.[/QUOTE]
Wanting to put in minimal effort and be on an "even playing field" with the person who puts in significant effort is [U][B]exactly[/B][/U] the coddling I was talking about. You are asking for things you didn't earn.
You are correct on one point. Rust is not for casuals. It is a grind game. And, like every grind game [U]ever[/U], the more you grind, the better your reward. If you don't have the time to grind, that makes you casual. Complaining about the people who do makes you "children". There's nothing wrong with being casual. I casually play many games. However, acting like you deserve more than you worked for is not exactly mature.
[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48607676]You said that it took them 6 C4 and many pick axes to get to your cupboard. If someone puts that much time and effort into finding your cupboard, they deserve to be able to make your base a mess. It's a solid tactic they can use to ensure that you move away or, at the very least, are hampered in your retribution capabilities...
...Fucking up someone's base so they can't strike back at you is not griefing. It's strategy.[/QUOTE]
Give this man a cookie.
Cpt Facepunch:
Griefing would be someone randomly walling in peoples' bases for no gain to themselves other than to piss people off. Trolls like that on our server end up getting kicked and / or banned.
What happened to you is you got raided by people who were organized and determined, and part of that raid involved getting to your master cupboard so they could take your entire base out of commission. Some people are content with robbing people and letting them rebuild. Others take out their opponents completely forcing them to rebuild elsewhere.
My group and I use this strategy when someone we don't know builds near us. If they set up near us without first at least asking, their base will get forcefully removed as you described happened to you, as we don't allow anyone to build near us and compete for the same resources.
[QUOTE=AshFirecrest;48640336]Wanting to put in minimal effort and be on an "even playing field" with the person who puts in significant effort is [U][B]exactly[/B][/U] the coddling I was talking about. You are asking for things you didn't earn.
You are correct on one point. Rust is not for casuals. It is a grind game. And, like every grind game [U]ever[/U], the more you grind, the better your reward. If you don't have the time to grind, that makes you casual. Complaining about the people who do makes you "children". There's nothing wrong with being casual. I casually play many games. However, acting like you deserve more than you worked for is not exactly mature.[/QUOTE]
The entire reason we are able to have a discussion about this is only because this game is still early access. Any gamer right now can go out, buy Rust, see what their likes/dislikes are, then voice his/her opinion.
I respect your opinion. What I don't respect is when you call players children or immature. Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view doesn't make them, well, anything. Except for someone that doesn't agree with you, can you handle that?
It's obvious your not interested in the games growth. Praise to the devs for seeing conversations like this and taking into account the casual problems. I remember when I posted about how raiding is to easy. One point I made was ladders. A week later, ladders were down. Was this a direct action? No. It was a decision based off of hundreds of players. We worked together for that.
So, call us what you want, but we have a voice. If you want to only have your way, not progress forward and not bring good ideas to other types of player. Then you will get left behind.
You will be the one someday "complaining". Hoping someone will hear you, understand and offer a solution.
But no. Their will be another you, there always is. He will you tell you things like "Don't complain child".
Remember, this is a game. So this means that I should be able to turn it on, have fun then go back to real life. Not turn it on, grind for 8 hours, then go to bed tired.
Don't agree? Good, early access means you have your opinion too. Problem is, not one of us are right, for now :)
The players turned it into a raiding game, not the devs. There are plans to add more pve elements. As with any change, you'll get complaints. The people who play it for survival and solo want balance, the people who play it for KOS and raiding want the advantage, the people who play to raid and grief want the advantage. Add ladders, the sky falls down. Take them away, the sky falls down. Nerf c4 and rockets, the game is broke...unnerf them...ZOMG!!!!! The devs are all stupid and don't know how to program.
Just play and adjust to the changes. Be thankful Garry and crew don't throw their hands up. Say. " Fuck Y'all", and leave it, as is. Like Legacy.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;48640398]Give this man a cookie.
Cpt Facepunch:
Griefing would be someone randomly walling in peoples' bases for no gain to themselves other than to piss people off. Trolls like that on our server end up getting kicked and / or banned.
What happened to you is you got raided by people who were organized and determined, and part of that raid involved getting to your master cupboard so they could take your entire base out of commission. Some people are content with robbing people and letting them rebuild. Others take out their opponents completely forcing them to rebuild elsewhere.
My group and I use this strategy when someone we don't know builds near us. If they set up near us without first at least asking, their base will get forcefully removed as you described happened to you, as we don't allow anyone to build near us and compete for the same resources.[/QUOTE]
I play on a community server now. There is no griefing. Problem solved.
[editline]8th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=LootBox;48640770]The entire reason we are able to have a discussion about this is only because this game is still early access. Any gamer right now can go out, buy Rust, see what their likes/dislikes are, then voice his/her opinion.
I respect your opinion. What I don't respect is when you call players children or immature. Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view doesn't make them, well, anything. Except for someone that doesn't agree with you, can you handle that?
It's obvious your not interested in the games growth. Praise to the devs for seeing conversations like this and taking into account the casual problems. I remember when I posted about how raiding is to easy. One point I made was ladders. A week later, ladders were down. Was this a direct action? No. It was a decision based off of hundreds of players. We worked together for that.
So, call us what you want, but we have a voice. If you want to only have your way, not progress forward and not bring good ideas to other types of player. Then you will get left behind.
You will be the one someday "complaining". Hoping someone will hear you, understand and offer a solution.
But no. Their will be another you, there always is. He will you tell you things like "Don't complain child".
Remember, this is a game. So this means that I should be able to turn it on, have fun then go back to real life. Not turn it on, grind for 8 hours, then go to bed tired.
Don't agree? Good, early access means you have your opinion too. Problem is, not one of us are right, for now :)[/QUOTE]
100% Agree
[QUOTE=jumonjii;48640838]The players turned it into a raiding game, not the devs.[/QUOTE]
Come on now... let's be serious here.
If I make a game that consists of a big grass field and the ability to craft 1) benches, 2) nets, 3) sneakers and 4) inflatable balls with black and white pentagonal pattern... don't tell me "the players" turned it into a soccer game. I can take the soccer balls and sneakers and make a giant Chinese Checkers board, but that's just me taking what's obviously a soccer game and distracting myself because I'm bored of soccer.
When the devs start adding dangerous world elements (environment, flora, fauna etc.) that turn this into a survival game, then players will start playing it like a survival game. But don't bitch at them for not making pretend until that time arrives.
If you put said elements into a game and it's meant to be a soccer game, but players take said soccer balls and use them to beat down other players and create huge gangs that go around the field beating players down. Who turned it into Dodge ball soccer?
[QUOTE=jumonjii;48642608]If you put said elements into a game and it's meant to be a soccer game, but players take said soccer balls and use them to beat down other players and create huge gangs that go around the field beating players down. Who turned it into Dodge ball soccer?[/QUOTE]
:eng101:
[QUOTE=Cpt Facepunch;48641776]I play on a community server now. There is no griefing. Problem solved.[/QUOTE]
winner.
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