[QUOTE=BluSub6;43528137]What is up with all you weirdo's and wanting NPC AI to fight? This is a online game, lets fight other people and not dumb AI that can only do as much as it is scripted to.[/QUOTE]
Sure an AI can only "do what it is scripted to do". Which, to be fair, doesn't have to be a whole lot to look smart.
Let's take a helicopter. What does it have to do to look smart? Nothing, really. It flies around, shoots, and maybe retreats when damaged. That's it.
Now let's take a soldier. What does a soldier have to do to look smart? Mainly, it needs to find good cover to shoot from, and maybe figure out when and where to throw grenades. Also not a whole lot to do.
Beyond that, there's also techniques which can do way more than it was intended to do. It's called GOAP, Goal-Oriented Action Planning. You've seen Pathfinding in games (where AI opponents find their way around obstacles), well this is similar (actually it uses some of the same algorithms!).
You give the AI a current state of the game, a goal state to get to, and a list of actions it can perform (some actions can also have requirements), and it will plan how to get to the goal.
So for instance, let's take an AI with the following actions:
Pickup Weapon
Attack Target [requires weapon]
On the floor is a crowbar. The AI has no weapons at the moment. By simply providing the AI with the current state (no weapon), the goal state (target dead), and the actions (pickup-weapon, attack-target), the AI will decide to first pickup the weapon (because it is necessary in order to attack the target, which requires a weapon), and then attack the target.
Sure that could have been scripted, but if you think about it, you can provide a ton of actions to the AI and sometimes you can watch it do things you never originally thought it would do.
That said, I don't know how resource intensive GOAP would be on a server which might be simulating hundreds or thousands of AI-controlled agents across the world.
Behaviour trees, however, are a lot more scripted but still result in pretty smart-looking agents.
[QUOTE=BluSub6;43528137]What is up with all you weirdo's and wanting NPC AI to fight? This is a online game, lets fight other people and not dumb AI that can only do as much as it is scripted to.[/QUOTE]
NPC's can be a great addition to a game by encouraging behavior, without being an artificial limit. Say, for instance, they code wolves into the game, and add in a sort unique AI behavior (working as a pack or something). They are threats to lone players above all else, while seeking to avoid larger groups. You can struggle to survive on your own, or realize that it is perhaps it is worth it to seek the help of a few other players in your position. None of you are at the level where you can gain anything from killing the other, so you work together.
It is not an ideal example, as mostly theoretical and idealized. But it is ignorant to think that NPC's add nothing to the game, especially a survival game.
[QUOTE=derkyy;43525345]Where are you getting this information? I made a post about this a while back and helk kind of beat around the bush on what it's purpose is, here is the link for those interested.
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1328348[/url]
Straight from helk's fingers for the lazy :
1. No players will be flying it (....yet)
2. Hide[/QUOTE]
Did you get the idea that I posted that before he said that nobody will be flying in it. The rumors were from a website called "Gaming Headlines" they just said it was rumors.
[QUOTE=GreenIguana;43522473]Stop pretending like you know the storyline of the game. Facepunch knows what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
He was using his imagination. the story he presented is plausible and might even be close to what the story line/background info is.
As of right now im guessing only the devs know what direction the game will point to but maybe if players speculate they might even give the devs ideas that they themselves havent thought of, hence making a better game. Id implore all of us to think of possible scenarios.
Hide in your base when it comes.
If you think it's going to blow up your base then suicide. Since you're dead it may just leave you alone and your gear is safe.
But why should we have to do that?
Helicopters shout target exceptionally the best equipped only, if they targeted naked rock swingers it would be horrible
[QUOTE=BFG9000;43546301]But why should we have to do that?
Helicopters shout target exceptionally the best equipped only, if they targeted naked rock swingers it would be horrible[/QUOTE]
I hope the patrol helicopter works like the police in GTA, I mean, it should target people with high kill count or / and tons of stuff. Maybe with that system it'll reduce PVP a little bit because if you want to be a "bandit", you'll have to fight the heli one day.
Has anybody thought of the possibilty of having a call in system for the patrol helicopter similar to the Air drop grenade? Perhaps a rare loot item you can get to call in the patrol helicopter to either :
a) shoot all buildings in the area, and maybe people. or
b) drop some supplies right at your location, perhaps faster and more accurately than the air drop so you have a better chance of getting them.
-Rdkill
[QUOTE=Rdkill;43546428]Has anybody thought of the possibilty of having a call in system for the patrol helicopter similar to the Air drop grenade? Perhaps a rare loot item you can get to call in the patrol helicopter to either :
a) shoot all buildings in the area, and maybe people. or
b) drop some supplies right at your location, perhaps faster and more accurately than the air drop so you have a better chance of getting them.
-Rdkill[/QUOTE]
I like the idea but the only people who would get to use it are the well-equipped, who we want this held to target in the first place.
I believe the current situation of the survivors in Rust are essentially, we are on a show. We are people that pissed off whatever government owns the island and they shipped us out here, naked, to survive or die. The air drops are there only to add amusement for viewers. There are cameras hidden all over.
cool
[QUOTE=Bine;43546643]I believe the current situation of the survivors in Rust are essentially, we are on a show. We are people that pissed off whatever government owns the island and they shipped us out here, naked, to survive or die. The air drops are there only to add amusement for viewers. There are cameras hidden all over.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me slightly of the film "No Escape"
[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110678/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_87[/url]
I think IF we have AI in game then it should be related to the mops walking around. Maybe some dangerous sabelthoot tiger tthat has a bit of AI. Or wolfes that hunt in groups.
Sabers are extinct
If they are using it to replace the Zombies, then the helicopter should only patrol certain areas of the map, like the rad zone were the amount of loot can be high. It will make it harder to get that loot. They should also make the wildlife smarter. I like the idea presented earlier, that the wolves should hunt in packs.
[QUOTE=dawiha;43547099]If they are using it to replace the Zombies, then the helicopter should only patrol certain areas of the map, like the rad zone were the amount of loot can be high. It will make it harder to get that loot. They should also make the wildlife smarter. I like the idea presented earlier, that the wolves should hunt in packs.[/QUOTE]
No, smart wildlife would mean little to no food for noob because deer outnumber pigs at this point. If deer were to become smarter the only way to kill them would be with guns and arrows, as opposed to patience and a rock.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;43547115]No, smart wildlife would mean little to no food for noob because deer outnumber pigs at this point. If deer were to become smarter the only way to kill them would be with guns and arrows, as opposed to patience and a rock.[/QUOTE]
Or Crouching up on them which was the intended mechanic.
[QUOTE=Immortalis;43547133]Or Crouching up on them which was the intended mechanic.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, patience and a rock. If AI were smart enough to hear you creeping toward them, it would be fine for pigs and chickens but deer are simply too fast, so the only way is to crouch. If they were smart enough to see you then it would be bad.
I thought killing deer by sneaking and crouching was a fluke. Like killing a bear that's chasing you by jumping on a collectable rock. They do need to fix them. They should follow a player into an empty building. Or jump up on a rock to get you.
Add hostile soldiers next. Make them an invading army.
Rename the game Magenta Morning.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mayhem;43522897]If the heli is indeed going to hunt players, it's possible it will hunt 'rich' players. You'll see on Trello they're concerned about balance and are looking for a way to mitigate against the problem of rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.
As well, they do plan on removing zombies, making the PvE even that much more trivial--even new spawns don't need much to make the current PvE trivial outside of perhaps major rad zones which are easily avoided.
I definitely agree that the PvE and survival aspect of the game needs to be stepped up in some way--I'm not sure if a player hunter helicopter is the best way to accomplish this, but it could be interesting.
However, if this heli will be hunting players, I'd expect to be able to shoot it down too, and then scavenge and salvage loot from the crash site. Guns, ammo, medkits, metal, bandages, gun mods, rations, rad pills, gunpowder as loot would make sense.[/QUOTE]
The solution to this is to have things (zomie packs/creatures/helicopters) that are attracted to things like gunfire/large groups of people/explosions. So if you're going to run around as a pack of people with shotguns shooting at everything you see then you're going to increase the chance that you draw attention from some bad things (or a pack of bad things)
[QUOTE=saltychipmunk;43521801]i get the feeling that what this game is , that we are in a disaster zone , and the rest of the world is actually fine .
and that the surrounding countries are going back and forth on whether or not to help us the players.
hence why there are air drops and possibly why there are attack helicopters
thing is that the only real threat to players are other players , which means most established crews have nothing better to do than to curb stomp lesser people.
adding hostile npcs to preoccupy these roaming kill squads might go a long way into shifting the current dynamics in the game into something slightly more cooperative and less "everyone kos because reasons" .[/QUOTE]
See what pops in my head is its a televised game, not like hunger games. There was a movie a few years ago where inmates were dropped on an island to survive and kill the others. They were dropped in with their bare hands, no weapons provided, last to survive went free. That's how i picture this, just a televised sporting event.
Whelp, this effectively destroys the entire purpose of the game, if it does indeed function as a player killer. Removing zombies, I get. Adding in hostile NPCs, I don't get at all. Totally changes the focus from a player driven experience, and takes away from the social aspect of the game.
If you need to put in more threats, add environmental stuff like more dangerous wildlife. Keep the people controlled by other players. You're taking away a lot of what makes this game unique with this sort of thing.
All of this discussion seems to based on a singular assumption: that its an AI enemy. Since I don't see any specific implications of that here is my alternate theory and evidence.
This is probably a form of player transport. I'm not sure if it will be player controlled or if it will be on a loop (like the gnome airship in WoW). As evidence if you look at the photos posted you'll notice that the first image contains high-res shot of the interior. There would be no reason to produce this if the intention was to have the helicopter always be in the air. Similarly, you'll notice that all the models have the doors open showing seat space, not hard points, and the object on the front appears to be a lens of some sort, so either a camera or flood light.
I am probably wrong in at least some facet but I look forward to seeing how.
[B]Edit:[/B]
[url]https://trello.com/c/hvEhTphN/189-patrol-helicopter-weapons[/url]
There's also this. Combined, I'm guessing that this means it will be a vehicle, not an automated transport.
I think the best mechanic would be to have the heli drawn towards rapid movements and gunfire so that if you see it coming you can avoid it by crouching in long grass or just generally staying still. If it detected players based on line of sight then it would just cruise around slaughtering noobs until some high level players with m4s and stuff finished it off and frankly it already sucks enough being a fresh spawn without adding death from above to the mix
[QUOTE=umdshaman;43548733]All of this discussion seems to based on a singular assumption: that its an AI enemy. Since I don't see any specific implications of that here is my alternate theory and evidence.
This is probably a form of player transport. I'm not sure if it will be player controlled or if it will be on a loop (like the gnome airship in WoW). As evidence if you look at the photos posted you'll notice that the first image contains high-res shot of the interior. There would be no reason to produce this if the intention was to have the helicopter always be in the air. Similarly, you'll notice that all the models have the doors open showing seat space, not hard points, and the object on the front appears to be a lens of some sort, so either a camera or flood light.
I am probably wrong in at least some facet but I look forward to seeing how.
[B]Edit:[/B]
[url]https://trello.com/c/hvEhTphN/189-patrol-helicopter-weapons[/url]
There's also this. Combined, I'm guessing that this means it will be a vehicle, not an automated transport.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing, if it actually becomes player controlled then hackers would have a field day
Even without the hackers it's still overpowered as hell because anyone can hop inside and blow up bases with indiscretion if it is going to be a chopper gunner with NPC pilot. Rich players would get to it first, noobs who get lucky would blow up everything in sight, even people who have small peaceful settlements. Bottom line is no player should have control of the helicopter's guns and it should just be a standalone NPC.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;43550061]That's the thing, if it actually becomes player controlled then hackers would have a field day
Even without the hackers it's still overpowered as hell because anyone can hop inside and blow up bases with indiscretion if it is going to be a chopper gunner with NPC pilot. Rich players would get to it first, noobs who get lucky would blow up everything in sight, even people who have small peaceful settlements. Bottom line is no player should have control of the helicopter's guns and it should just be a standalone NPC.[/QUOTE]
it could always be balanced, for example it would run on high grade fuel which would be hard to find/expensive to craft. It could also have limited ammo, being able to carry on a few missiles and a couple of hundred rounds of MG ammo. That would probably force people to only use it when they need it rather than flying around turning the server into a recreation of apocalypse now
No, remember it's not driven by the player, its driven by an NPC pilot. Fuel would be moot, and as for ammo, that's still enough to terrorize a small settlement.
Depends I should think... we already have weapon sway. Can you imagine what trying to fire a SAW from a helicopter in flight would be like? Factor in the distance from the ground and you're probably talking 1 in 100 bullets landing. A SAW is basically a coverfire weapon at any distance against personnel. I'm really not sure where the missile pods come into it with an NPC pilot but I guess we'll see.
I'm sure there's a plan for this and given that there's a ticket about rebalancing because "the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer" I'm pretty sure they're not ignoring balance concerns.
There are missle pods though
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