This may turn into a wall of text, it may not. If it does I'll give you the ADHD version at the end so you can see the finer details.
I see all these threads popping up on how people are upset over M-4's being used in the game and how it should feature less than modern games. I think the real problem is that they're so plentiful, but that's not what people then argue about. It's about the existence of those weapons in the game and how lack of knowledge, resources, etc should make the acquiring of high tier weaponry impossible (that makeshift weapons should reign).
I'm from 'Murica. So we have tons of guns here. A good portion of the world is also heavy gun toting... most of Europe (ie. Russia), the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. Everything from crude older weapons (revolvers, muzzleloaders, etc) to high tier sub-machineguns, assault rifles, machineguns, etc.
If the apocalypse happened here and now... there would be guns everywhere. I have two in my house, had a third but traded it in not less than a month ago. My neighbor has guns, his neighbor, my neighbors across the street... etc etc. If the world ended and we had to take to the hills (or plains in the case of this game)... you'd bet your ass you'd see guns or some form of weapon (bows, knives, etc) in the hands of every person you run into.
Now, the game is rumored to be set in some type of Russian background. Fine. Russia has lots of weapons. The smaller Russian influenced countries and territories also have lots of guns. Yet you spawn into the game with a rock and a torch. Ok. I get that. Start fresh, learn the recipes, build yourself up. But just because you start with a rock doesn't mean you're a caveman. You start with the knowledge to make a 9mm and bullets. So clearly, this isn't a backwoods society with no technology. Should the starting pistol be a little more crude than say a Colt 1911... yes. A revolver perhaps. Something you might have seen in the wild west of the US. Maybe even a European decent pistol from the 40's or 50's. I'm ok with that. But that's no reason for handcrafted weapons (pipes, and clamps).
Now... the real problem I mentioned is two fold:
1. The M-4 is too readily available.
2. There are no like/similar weapons of comparable strength.
The first part of the problem stems from the recipe and weapon itself dropping far too much. I got the recipe for the M-4 in the first 5 minutes... that's FIVE minutes... of playing on the fresh server restart today. I got the MP5 in a crate too, a P-250... and then a research kit and paper within minutes. I now have every recipe in-game (to include explosives and charges) learned... short of kevlar (a full set) and metal structure components. That I accomplished before the server crashed (US West). Roughly 60 minutes of actual gametime.
The second part of the problem is that we don't have other guns similar in nature to compete with the M-4. If the M-4 was the rarest weapon in the game, and there was an equally rare G-36, MG-42, etc... then more people would have a variety. To which you could have different ammunition and components and further increase the difficulty and limited availability of those rare guns. That wont solve the problem per se, but it would take the attention off of the ONE gun that overpowers all of the other ones.
What needs to happen is there needs to be very visible tiers of weapons. I'm ok with makeshift handmade weapons. I think it's a silly concept to be honest (for the very reasons I stated above)... but having a dozen makeshift weapons easily made and available would give people a survival chance. Then a second tier needs to have modern weapons like revolvers, semi-autos, etc be obtainable with ease (some effort). Then another tier of higher end weaponry like AR-15's (single shot version of the M-4) that are harder to make, harder to obtain recipes for, etc. Lastly a tier of weapons that are extremely difficult to find (ie. full auto).
I don't want the game to turn into either of these two things:
1. A caveman simulator where we're swinging pipes or shooting pellets/bb's at each other.
2. A game filled with just guns and everyone is armed to the teeth.
[U]- Begin ADHD Version of the Post -[/U]
There needs to be a middleground. Guns are realistic. Making them, less so. Make it harder to obtain them. Make it even harder to craft them. Make high tier one use (recipe), or ammo impossible to find. Make makeshift weapons be a stepping stone, but don't fill the game with them.
I'm not looking for a Day Z version 2. I'm not looking for ultimate realism. But I worry that we're being shown these makeshift weapons and people are screaming for them to replace the high end weapons we have now. Instead, they should be SUPPLEMENTING the existing weapons and the way in which we access the high tier weapons revamped.
It goes without saying... no really, it does... so don't bother mentioning it... that this is an Alpha and as such will change. I get that. But you guys need to understand what a scenario like this would produce. It wouldn't be slingshots and bows. There would be a TON of guns. All makes, all models, and as rag tag as they come. Take a look at Falling Skies, Walking Dead, etc for a look into what a world after an apocalypse could look like.
There is no city no town no anything. Where would we get modern guns from. No matter how complicated you make the system (which would be a bad decision in my opinion) you can just make a modern military grade weapon. They way there are going is the right way. ALso, stop referencing tv shows. They aren't historic events, they are credible representations, they are tv shows crafted to be dramatic and engaging. Not to simulate reality.
[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42547058]There is no city no town no anything. Where would we get modern guns from. No matter how complicated you make the system (which would be a bad decision in my opinion) you can just make a modern military grade weapon. They way there are going is the right way. ALso, stop referencing tv shows. They aren't historic events, they are credible representations, they are tv shows crafted to be dramatic and engaging. Not to simulate reality.[/QUOTE]
You ASSUME that the end map (retail) wont have them. You also ASSUME that you were born in this plain and that you didn't come from civilization or that it's not close by. Hell, they even airdrop metal components and EXPLOSIVES to you. It's not crazy to think that these weapons wouldn't be accessible. Not by a long shot. If the world went post-apocalyptic right now... guns would be EVERYWHERE. In all continents of the world. Don't think for a minute that they would suddenly disappear.
[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42547093]You ASSUME that the end map (retail) wont have them. You also ASSUME that you were born in this plain and that you didn't come from civilization or that it's not close by. Hell, they even airdrop metal components and EXPLOSIVES to you. It's not crazy to think that these weapons wouldn't be accessible. Not by a long shot. If the world went post-apocalyptic right now... guns would be EVERYWHERE. In all continents of the world. Don't think for a minute that they would suddenly disappear.[/QUOTE]
Never said they would disappear. So what are you saying then? There are no cities so should we just have M4s lying around? We start naked. Why the hell would we bring guns but not clothes. As far as the air drops and explosives, i think that it's simply stupid. It is a supply drop and the last thing they would do is give weapons to people so they can kill each other. It doesn't matter how many guns are in the world. If you are in the wild, there are none. This whole post is invalid.
[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42547163]Never said they would disappear. So what are you saying then? There are no cities so should we just have M4s lying around? We start naked. Why the hell would we bring guns but not clothes. As far as the air drops and explosives, i think that it's simply stupid. It is a supply drop and the last thing they would do is give weapons to people so they can kill each other. It doesn't matter how many guns are in the world. If you are in the wild, there are none. This whole post is invalid.[/QUOTE]
If aliens came and took every building away and we mystically and magically ended up naked then taking guns away would make sense.
What makes more sense for a post-apocalyptic world, is that there would be a ton of guns that need maintenance, and ammunition created by hand (as ammunition would be the first to disappear long before the guns). Most people would carry weapons as a way of posing a threat to get what they needed from other people.
As for the supply drops... says you. They clearly have been nice enough to give us magic supply crates that respawn and drop recipes. To keep the peace or hell, maybe for fun... they'd give you the knowledge to make real weapons.
That's not as ridiculous as you seem to think.
But what you fail to grasp... is that this map isn't the end all for the game. The background and story hasn't even been fleshed out. This place you start is barren to... *gasp*... allow you to build your OWN cities. If the map was completely urban, then you wouldn't be able to build on it and the game would be something entirely different. But just because this plain is barren doesn't mean that just over the mountain isn't an urban world. Or, just across the water is a city.
[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42547222]If aliens came and took every building away and we mystically and magically ended up naked then taking guns away would make sense.
What makes more sense for a post-apocalyptic world, is that there would be a ton of guns that need maintenance, and ammunition created by hand (as ammunition would be the first to disappear long before the guns). Most people would carry weapons as a way of posing a threat to get what they needed from other people.
As for the supply drops... says you. They clearly have been nice enough to give us magic supply crates that respawn and drop recipes. To keep the peace or hell, maybe for fun... they'd give you the knowledge to make real weapons.
That's not as ridiculous as you seem to think.
But what you fail to grasp... is that this map isn't the end all for the game. The background and story hasn't even been fleshed out. This place you start is barren to... *gasp*... allow you to build your OWN cities. If the map was completely urban, then you wouldn't be able to build on it and the game would be something entirely different. But just because this plain is barren doesn't mean that just over the mountain isn't an urban world. Or, just across the water is a city.[/QUOTE]
You are just spewing random shit out. They have mentioned no plans for urban maps, so where would modern guns come from? No where. Period that is it. We can't just find them, it would be stupid to have them in supply drops, what are you not getting? IT IS THE WILD. No guns, no civilization. Just naked guys and their rocks.There is not city across the water. ITS THE WILD. There are no guns in the wild. If this was in a urban environment then i would agree with you. But its now. IT IS THE WILD. Tell me, where in nature do you find guns..... no where. If they ever add a city you are justified. But no one on the planet knows how to make a M4 from scratch in a furnace made from rocks. As the game is right now, it makes zero sense. That might change, who knows.
We're on an island, so that would sever us from major cities/countries slightly. As for the airdrop it makes sense, in a apocolyptic world the government (un-corrupted) would want to keep people safe and help them, they would do so in the form of airdrops, unless you want NPCs roaming in convoys with supplies. The people in the planes probably don't know we're at this free for all stage.
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