[QUOTE=Dealman;43405917][B]@Sievers808:[/B]
Especially because you can simply smack down a foundation and some staircases, which is what pisses me off the most.[/QUOTE]
It takes a lot of work, but a good location with foundations and center pillars spaced out around your structure can feasibly help with this. Just remember those pillars will decay after a very short time. Make sure you keep replacing them when they get lower.
That being said, instead of pre-building stairs and stuff in your inventory, it'd be nice if you had to stand there and craft them from planks after you select where you want them to be. Would make it a lot harder to scale a defended base
Lol a lot of you responded to me at once xD
The issue seems to be this: C4 is too easy to make/get and should be balanced better.
That part I agree with, and the balancing will come with time, that's why the game is in early alpha.
However, most of you seem to be making the argument that the problem is dupers and hackers et al, which has nothing to do with balance.
No one can say for sure how well the balance actually works because of the duping issues.
Hence, I think this thread is mostly null.
Obviously hackers/cheaters/exploiters are going to get weeded out eventually, somehow. For now, let's not blame the "balance" of building vs raiding because personally I'm not convinced that this is the actual issue.
One thing at a time ppl xD
[QUOTE=Sievers808;43405997]
No one can say for sure how well the balance actually works because of the duping issues.
Hence, I think this thread is mostly null.
Obviously hackers/cheaters/exploiters are going to get weeded out eventually, somehow. For now, let's not blame the "balance" of building vs raiding because personally I'm not convinced that this is the actual issue.
One thing at a time ppl xD[/QUOTE]
I agree 110%! I played for about a week before the hacks were released and c4 was no easy thing to come by. I didn't feel like it was overpowered at all then.
You may be right about the c4.
But then how do you counter the users offline issue?
All in all, the ideas that OP has posted seems great. For now, I think that raiders and builders have a pretty good balance in all, the only time I see is where one side decides to dupe the hell out of items, whether it's to make a 100 story tower or enough C4 to break one down entirely. The exploit needs to be fixed and all, but it's in Alpha right now, they need time to work out these balances and get VAC or a better antihack/anticheat (as it doesn't seem like it's doing jack diddly shit right now).
But as I stated, OP has stated pretty neat ideas IMO. I wish they would implement something like Plot Poles from DayZ epoch to keep only people tagged as friendlies (in this case, shared with) building on that plot of land, except it should only be that set of connected foundations, instead of a 30m radius.
[QUOTE=Jkotch80;43406143]You may be right about the c4.
But then how do you counter the users offline issue?[/QUOTE]
Being offline isn't the raider's fault and it isn't something that I feel should require a fix.
Your base and toon is only as safe as you make it... obviously there are limits, no one can play 24/7/365 to keep their stuff safe, but even if you're online there's a fair chance you'll die trying to defend...
My thoughts are below:
1. They come in numbers. Knowing they are going to raid, they gather, prepare, have everyone ready and online. Our people usually aren't all online, there's no way to prepare for something like that.
Traps are coming. Give it time.
3. When you successfully raid, you get a LOT of good stuff from it. In essence you get everything that person has done, looted, raided, etc. You become that much more powerful. The person raided becomes impotent.
This is how it's supposed to be.
My suggestions:
1. Combo lock doors should be the most important thing on the list.
It is.
2. Traps and other base defenses.
Coming
3. Metal Gates, fences.
4. Another level of wall, concrete. And make other wall types harder to penetrate. Also two types of metal and wood walls, ones that you can see through, like current, and ones that you can't that take more resources to make. More solid ones should have more hit points.
5. Harder metal doors.
6. Make c4 not stack. (one inventory slot per c4)
All of the above could be handled by a few things. Not stackable is a decent idea, but not an issue with 2-3 people. I think the timer needs to be longer, and maybe a delay between placing. You can throw 2-3 on a wall/door very quickly. Maybe 30-60 seconds to explode, and if you kill the person and have a "wiring kit" you can defuse it over 5-10 seconds.
7. Ability to put something in place that keeps walls/pillars from being placed in certain spots on your construction.
Agree
8. Allow placing of lower level construction materials on more solid pillars, ceiling, and foundation. AKA, if I make a metal foundation and two stories of metal walls, everything about that should be able to support wood. But not the other way around.
Agreed
9. Light sources for the area. Torches, flaming barrels (which are already in the game, just not craftable or lootable), lanterns, etc, that can be placed for better visibility at night. (We currently use campfires, but they consume a LOT of wood, you'd think with c4 and m4s around you could come up with a more efficient light source.
Electricity and fuel is coming later.
10. If you destroy boxes, items inside should fall on the floor. If they can't carry it, good!
11. Hidden doors and ceiling hatches that don't show up by looking at them. How can I hide something if it's got a big white dot over it.
I love this idea! Although, I think trap doors and stuff are coming with later updates.
12. Partial walls that provide some cover while you fire over the edge of a building.
Just use barricades with a small gap between them. Half walls would be ok though.
13. Uniform coloring. I hate having no idea who I'm shooting at.
More options are coming I am sure.
14. Bars on Windows so you can shoot out! (thanks twizzm, forgot about this one)
[QUOTE=thegame3202;43406376]My thoughts are below:
3. When you successfully raid, you get a LOT of good stuff from it. In essence you get everything that person has done, looted, raided, etc. You become that much more powerful. The person raided becomes impotent.
This is how it's supposed to be.
[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, but it should not be super easy to accomplish this. And if you do successfully raid someone's house, destroying crates should drop the objects inside which should have to be destroyed individually. (takes longer and more chance of them just leaving stuff there.)
[QUOTE=Jkotch80;43406624]Absolutely, but it should not be super easy to accomplish this. And if you do successfully raid someone's house, destroying crates should drop the objects inside which should have to be destroyed individually. (takes longer and more chance of them just leaving stuff there.)[/QUOTE]
Whenever I raid I usually drop the stuff I do not want on the ground for it to despawn.
Dick move, I know, lol but effective.
I just got raided while offline and my place is a rather scary one. Huge spike walls all around with 3 diffrent gates and 2 watch towers... but still the c4 wins over anything... be it huge wooden gates or small metal doors... Nothing's safe. As it was said before c4 duping is a main problem and I'm sure it will be handled asap.
But another problem right now is that, buildings aren't really "intimidating" since, while raiding,the raider knows nothing else besides them blowing down the walls, shooting and getting shot at will happen in the process. They're either succesfull or not. When traps come in, raiding should die down a bit since communities will be able to start defending their places even when they're not online.
Well looks like they killed duping tonight, so we'll see if it makes a difference. I have my doubts
[QUOTE=Jkotch80;43410722]Well looks like they killed duping tonight, so we'll see if it makes a difference. I have my doubts[/QUOTE]
Source?
Couldn't agree more with your post. It is interesting to see who rated your post as dumb, but not surprising. The game is broken as it is, period. Yes, it's Alpha, I know and that's what people keep falling back to and call you a n00b and you should stop complaining. This game has GREAT potential, but right now it's up the creek without a paddle.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;43410750]Source?[/QUOTE]
Think he's talking about VAC?
If you're gonna remove the C4's stackability at least make a more powerful bomb option or the C4 itself more powerful.
[QUOTE=Soulgazer;43411064]Think he's talking about VAC?[/QUOTE]
Was duping ever something that VAC could catch? I always thought it was more of an exploit than a hack.
Then again I'm not sure how it's done so I'm probably wrong lol.
Currently (cheats not included as they break every balance in every game and are not planned for any balanced game) Rust tends to be very easy on the builder side, and makes it insanely hard for any raiders to get into properly built places.
You need over 40 C4 just to get to the third floor of a well built 5x5 wooden house with metal doors, let alone a metal house, not sure what you are doing, but youre doing something wrong.
1) Shoot raiders from the top of your building, that way you can just respawn, pick up your stuff again from your corpse and keep shooting them, even if you die.
2) Use doors to your advantage, a wooden wall has resistance to 1 C4, a metal door though has resistance to at least 2 and normally 3 if it is new or well kept.
3) Build more walls and doors if you notice they still get through. A wooden wall costs you some pillars some foundations and a wall. If you show any serious efforts you can easily make 5 or 6 floors of a 5x5 building with metal doors with a group of 3 or 4 dedicated players in a few hours.
Every wall that you place, even a wooden wall take the attacker 1 C4 every single time they raid you. If you have 3 thats nearly nothing, if you have 50 with stairways well placed inside your complex that makes it ridiculously hard/expensive to get through very very quickly. 1C4 can probably be farmed in 10-15 minutes with normal means, multiply that by 50 and compare it with the time it takes to replace 50 walls and you will notice the huge time difference that is to the builders advantage.
Building takes time to setup, but once you have it properly set up its very easy and cost effective to maintain. Same for metal parts. They offer an insane amount of protection (1 wall holds 7 C4) for a very reasonable price. Just takes a while to research all the parts.
I agree with some of the posters who wrote that it's likely due to the C4 inflated economy because of duping/hacking. As for the vanilla game, builders have an easy time staying safe, which is imo really good, because it's dangerous enough as soon as you step outside your door.
Oh and as for post raid griefing, from the ownership thing on Trello I expect this to be an issue of the past soon, or at least hope so.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;43404545]2 things:
1) If you don't want to get raided, don't build a huge house in the middle of a forest... makes you a wonderfully easy target to spot.
2) How do you know that half the attackers are hacking? Just because they've successfully raided you doesnt mean they were hacking.
I'm tired of everyone QQ'ing about hackers all the time. In my own server I get at least 5 steam messages a day about ppl bitching about hackers. I don't believe there are as many hackers as people think, they're just blaming them any time they die or get raided.[/QUOTE]
Come on !! Open your eyes ! for 10$ people have all they want !!
[url]http://www.mpgh.net/forum/740-rust-hacks-cheats/[/url] (LOL)
[url]http://www.artificialaiming.net/forum/general-discussions/73971-rust-cheat-hack-dupe-esp.html[/url]
[url]http://www.unknowncheats.me/forum/tags/rust.html[/url]
Nice solid ideas for defending a base. I'm sick of just rebuilding a simple house and I would just know that it will get raided,.
[QUOTE=plopingo;43411241]Come on !! Open your eyes ! for 10$ people have all they want !!
[url]http://www.mpgh.net/forum/740-rust-hacks-cheats/[/url] (LOL)
[url]http://www.artificialaiming.net/forum/general-discussions/73971-rust-cheat-hack-dupe-esp.html[/url]
[url]http://www.unknowncheats.me/forum/tags/rust.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I never said that hacks didn't exist.
kill the c4 and add big slage hammer's 30 blows for a metal door and let it make a hell of a noice :)
[QUOTE=Rynea;43411186]
You need over 40 C4 just to get to the third floor of a well built 5x5 wooden house with metal doors, let alone a metal house, not sure what you are doing, but youre doing something wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Most doors only take 2 c4. With 40 c4 you're talking about taking down about 20 doors. Do you have any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to open and close 20 doors every time you want to grab something from your stash? The idea of just building more doors is crazy! 40 c4 is crazy too though.
And that's assuming you built your base perfectly so they can't just circumvent the doors entirely to get up to higher levels or deeper into your base by taking a wall down.
Also... hard to shoot from top of your base when they are in it with a count of 5. by the time you hear the ticking and grab your gear, they're inside your walls. Assuming of course that they didn't kill you already while you were outside farming trees
[QUOTE=Jkotch80;43404827]Our place is pretty well covered in the woods. It's kinda hard for me to find it sometimes. It's definitely not clearly visible[/QUOTE]
They already know where your base is so it doesn't matter how concealed it is. It's time to move, dude.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;43405997]Lol a lot of you responded to me at once xD
The issue seems to be this: C4 is too easy to make/get and should be balanced better.
That part I agree with, and the balancing will come with time, that's why the game is in early alpha.
However, most of you seem to be making the argument that the problem is dupers and hackers et al, which has nothing to do with balance.
No one can say for sure how well the balance actually works because of the duping issues.
Hence, I think this thread is mostly null.
Obviously hackers/cheaters/exploiters are going to get weeded out eventually, somehow. For now, let's not blame the "balance" of building vs raiding because personally I'm not convinced that this is the actual issue.
One thing at a time ppl xD[/QUOTE]
especially since nearly all of the more modern weapons will be replaced in the future as the game progresses in development. almost everything in game at the moment is placeholder in some way.
They need to add heavy duty walls and doors. Perhaps ones that are resource intensive but can withstand 5 c4. Balance will be the key but that can be figured out.
Yeah, it's a frustrating game sometimes. The no lives who play 24/7 because they don't have a job or have nothing else better to do will succeed in this game. I got raided today, 3 of them vs me, i notice they are on the server all day, pretty much every day. My friends are all either sleeping or at work. I mean, a game where going to sleep or not playing all day will make you lose hours of work is pretty annoying. But i'm getting used to it. At this point, my clan and I raid everyone before they get too big for us to handle.
I know its alpha and so far this game has been great for me and my friends. We have been raided and it sucked since most of us were offline or away at the time it happen. One thing to help adjust the balance for raiding though...
In the spirit of this being a survival game where you scavenge and build everything replace C4 with a less stable explosive like dynamite. Then give dynamite a chance to work properly when placed 33%. A chance to fail when placed 33%. And a final chance to blow up in the user's hands when placed killing him/her instantly 33%.
Adjust the percentages as you like. Again, its alpha and I know the balance will be adjusted. I just think this would be a fun quirk and not only levels the playing field but fits perfectly with the theme of the game.
I like many others do agree that c4 duping is the issue not that c4 is unbalanced.
I can craft everything needed for it and I can say its a pretty good chunk of resources while raiding does provide quite a bit c4 is still very hard to make (not like 1 or 2 c4 im talking to blow up all the doors in a base which in most well constructed bases is like 5-15)
Just saw that the last thing I listed is going into the next update and combo locks are currently in development on trello sweeeet! (Plus no-clip and loot through walls hacks fixes on the horizon!)
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