[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42596418]For someone 'in the field', your comments about hacking are pretty off base. The only issue right now that 'securing servers' would help is the DDOS. All other client side hacks are a game code issue, which is something that tends to be a good thing to try to resolve early. There are some pretty fundamental game design strategies that you have to deploy to get it right that can be hard to change later.
My guess, based on having read somewhere that the Unity engine is temporary, is that their hope is that a move to a different engine will resolve some of the client side hacks because the engine will already account for them. This would make sense considering their current focus on gameplay mechanics and content.[/QUOTE]
Preventing something from being hacked and DDOSed is impossible. It requires alot of money and moderation. Again, no one is dumb enough to spend all this on alpha temp servers. I am pretty sure devs are keeping note of how people are hacking and will try to fix it. Creating one thread after another about hackers is waste of time.
The game is far from finished and the ones who decide to buy it now are fully aware of it's state, it literally takes 5 minutes in this subsection. You want to mess around in game prototypes and see their development from the inside? Buy in. You want a full quality game, interesting, with strong core mechanics, free of bugs, with hack protections yadda yadda yadda? Pass. for now.
[QUOTE=RedWorker;42596501]Preventing something from being hacked and DDOSed is impossible. It requires alot of money and moderation.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, which is it, impossible, or possible with lots of money and moderation?
How much money? $370000? $10000?
Client side hacking can absolutely be prevented, maybe not entirely, but much closer to 'not impacting the entire server' than it is right now.
There IS a point to posting about it -- it gives the devs a sense of how important it is to the community. Whether or not the devs care or can respond due to other priorities is another issue.
No one is forcing you to read these threads.
[editline]21st October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RedWorker;42596501]Preventing something from being hacked and DDOSed is impossible. It requires alot of money and moderation. Again, no one is dumb enough to spend all this on alpha temp servers. I am pretty sure devs are keeping note of how people are hacking and will try to fix it. Creating one thread after another about hackers is waste of time.[/QUOTE]
And I say again, hacking like the kind that is going on right now (not the DDOS'ing, that is not hacking) is NOT about spending money on alpha temp servers. It is a core game code issue that is irrespective of whatever server you are running the game on. There are reasons why the devs may not be making it a priority right now, but it is not about what kind of servers they are hosting the alpha on or how secure those servers are. No clip hacking for example, doesn't involve you 'breaking into the server.'
we shouldn't be so quick to blame the game for all the hacking, how about we blame those who choose to do it?
They aren't smarter for doing it, I'm a professional (9-5, full time, 15 years experience) programmer myself... I could do it -- but don't. It's not some magical thing that makes them superior, it makes them douchebags that think they're so intelligent.
It's not about blame, it's about how to solve it. You can't change douchebags, but you can change the game.
[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42596850]It's not about blame, it's about how to solve it. You can't change douchebags, but you can change the game.[/QUOTE]
Fixing a game takes time and people are impatient. We all know hacking is an issue so there is no point for creating for separate thread complaining about same thing.
For your kind information, DDOS is a type of hacking.
If you didn't know, Team Fortress 2 used the same platform.
Long story short, every server will get a chance to host their own Play Rust server, like Team Fortress 2. The moderator or admin will determine who or what player get to remains on the server.
I welcome the idea in the future for a bigger map that would resemble the size of Day Z.
[QUOTE=cNova;42596256]Thats the joke guys. it shoud have been so expensive that you had to think twice before buying it.
Also have you really paid 2500 $ for a game wich is in alpha phase ?[/QUOTE]
I was talking about the price of my PC. lol
[editline]21st October 2013[/editline]
This game has potential but in Alpha state it is probably the worst game I have played but I loved the premise and put a lot of hours in. I am not bullying the devs, they have a lot on their plate. I am just pointing out to people who are planning on buying it. DayZ standalone, I realize now, is REALLy far off. Didn't realize they ran into more complication so I guess we will see. A lot of potential though. No hate, that's not my intention. I thought DayZ would launch sooner and would be a better purchase at this time. Apparently I was incorrect, I apologize.
This entire thread could be summed up as "caveat emptor".
The problem is that Gmail (and to a lesser extent Minecraft) has made people think that alpha/beta mean "cheap access to preview of finished product" and not "shit's not finished yet".
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42598513]This entire thread could be summed up as "caveat emptor".
The problem is that Gmail (and to a lesser extent Minecraft) has made people think that alpha/beta mean "cheap access to preview of finished product" and not "shit's not finished yet".[/QUOTE]
I think the industry norm and standard right now is to release an Alpha and unfinished product then patch it as time progresses. As opposed to finishing the product first, then releasing it to the masses. I for one can't even recall the first game to really be guilty of that... but it's happening all over. So much so that Steam now has Greenlight and the ability to sell Alpha state games on there.
Strange times.
It's a win-win, players get early access, dev shops get some free testing. The fact it is fairly new though, as you touched on, means that expectations are fully defined and seem to be different for each group and/or game.
[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42595331]Incoming flame replies in 3... 2... 1...
But no, this isn't a game to "buy". I got myself a key to get in and test it out, and also guarantee myself a final product. I didn't pay now for what it is and assume it's a polished and complete game. I paid for the potential of it.
That said, there are some very serious concerns going around the community here, and the devs need to start addressing those concerns if they hope to have people buying into it later (by telling their friends about it).
I got a few guys into the game myself, but I would be hard pressed to tell them I have complete faith in the devs. I foresee a repeat of War Z history and I'm just hanging on to see what happens (hoping for the best).
I'd like to see the mod team ease up a bit too. I saw one guy banned today and the mod put the reason as "Shit post". Spam, hate/racial messages... yeah I get all that. Rule violations... absolutely. But the way it was dealt with just raised a TON of flags and that's just one of a dozen members banned in the last 24 hours. I saw two of them for posting about hackers and not posting to the hacker thread. As if creating a separate thread is a monstrous violation. A simple lock and redirect of the appropriate thread link would have done the same job and spared a guy a ban.
Anyway... I'm hoping things pan out.[/QUOTE]
WarZ promised people things that to this day are STILL not in the game. The only promise you got from this company when you bought the game is alpha, beta and final release version of the game. You have been given not only what you paid for but what was stated you were paying for. You are owed nothing more then what has already been delivered to you thus far.
I do not know what is worse your clans lack of ability to know how to design a base allowing vective to close you guys in or the fact that you would pull the WarZ card this early in development and cry about an unpolished game being unpolished.
I use to have some respect for you here and in the game but the more I got to know your group of baddies and the more you post about such dumb crap as hacking issues during a testing phase really makes all that respect go away.
[QUOTE=teamvortex;42598638]WarZ promised people things that to this day are STILL not in the game. The only promise you got from this company when you bought the game is alpha, beta and final release version of the game. You have been given not only what you paid for but what was stated you were paying for. You are owed nothing more then what has already been delivered to you thus far.
I do not know what is worse your clans lack of ability to know how to design a base allowing vective to close you guys in or the fact that you would pull the WarZ card this early in development and cry about an unpolished game being unpolished.
I use to have some respect for you here and in the game but the more I got to know your group of baddies and the more you post about such dumb crap as hacking issues during a testing phase really makes all that respect go away.[/QUOTE]
^^ you nailed it!
[QUOTE=teamvortex;42598638]WarZ promised people things that to this day are STILL not in the game. The only promise you got from this company when you bought the game is alpha, beta and final release version of the game. You have been given not only what you paid for but what was stated you were paying for. You are owed nothing more then what has already been delivered to you thus far.
I do not know what is worse your clans lack of ability to know how to design a base allowing vective to close you guys in or the fact that you would pull the WarZ card this early in development and cry about an unpolished game being unpolished.
I use to have some respect for you here and in the game but the more I got to know your group of baddies and the more you post about such dumb crap as hacking issues during a testing phase really makes all that respect go away.[/QUOTE]
My group of baddies? I have no such thing. I've also not had my base blocked in. So I don't think you know who you're talking to. I associate with a lot of people in-game (a good number of us have communicated over TS)... but I don't claim anything other than the actions of my own members. Which will appear in-game with [24th] tags. We've not had any problems with anyone in-game like what you're talking about because we don't build near the populated areas.
As far as the "War Z card"... War Z had the EXACT same problem we see here (DDoS and in-game hacks) at the EXACT same stage of development. I can't see how comparing the two is unjustified. I never put the two games side by side in promises or features. I've simply said in multiple threads, that I hope this doesn't turn into the same fiasco.
Now... in speaking about entitlement since you brought that up. What are we entitled to exactly with our purchase? An alpha key... to access an in-development alpha game. We are promised that when the game is completed, we will be able to have a copy of that game too. That's it.
However... and here is the big "but"... there are some expectations of a developer. Some things all developers are expected to do during all stages of development:
1. Communicate with the testers. It doesn't have to be lengthy posts day in and day out. It doesn't need to be in the form of hourly Twitter posts, dev diaries, etc. But they should communicate to the testers to let them know what is happening.
2. They need to be open to suggestions, comments, and concerns. Similar to the above, they should hear the testers out and even if they don't agree with it or intend on implementing it, at least hear them. This can be done through the use of Moderators or PR guys.
3. Provide constant (not to be confused with daily) fixes/updates to the game to improve upon the major issues and concerns that appear in a relatively "acceptable" timetable. You shouldn't see something gamebreaking (as just a "throw it out there" example, when everyone spawns into the game you fall through the map and die)... continue to be gamebreaking over an extended period of time. Those issues should be addressed or at the very least (see #1) communicated to the people involved that it is being addressed.
The difference in a testing phase like this is that people have paid money for a product. Thus, the expectations are a bit higher. If Star Citizen came out right now in an Alpha... even more would be expected of them because they made MILLIONS of dollars to Rusts near $400,000. If hacking was/is a major issue in Star Citizen, you could very well expect the internet to catch fire with people upset and rightfully so.
Rust on the other hand has a lot more leeway and acceptance of time (to fix things) because it's a much smaller development team with a lot less resources. But none the less, a "free" Alpha where testers are invited in to help fix problems and report back vs paid to access the Alpha and report problems... is vastly different.
When did this DDoS'ing start?
[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42599101]My group of baddies? I have no such thing. I've also not had my base blocked in. So I don't think you know who you're talking to. I associate with a lot of people in-game (a good number of us have communicated over TS)... but I don't claim anything other than the actions of my own members. Which will appear in-game with [24th] tags. We've not had any problems with anyone in-game like what you're talking about because we don't build near the populated areas.
As far as the "War Z card"... War Z had the EXACT same problem we see here (DDoS and in-game hacks) at the EXACT same stage of development. I can't see how comparing the two is unjustified. I never put the two games side by side in promises or features. I've simply said in multiple threads, that I hope this doesn't turn into the same fiasco.
Now... in speaking about entitlement since you brought that up. What are we entitled to exactly with our purchase? An alpha key... to access an in-development alpha game. We are promised that when the game is completed, we will be able to have a copy of that game too. That's it.
However... and here is the big "but"... there are some expectations of a developer. Some things all developers are expected to do during all stages of development:
1. Communicate with the testers. It doesn't have to be lengthy posts day in and day out. It doesn't need to be in the form of hourly Twitter posts, dev diaries, etc. But they should communicate to the testers to let them know what is happening.
2. They need to be open to suggestions, comments, and concerns. Similar to the above, they should hear the testers out and even if they don't agree with it or intend on implementing it, at least hear them. This can be done through the use of Moderators or PR guys.
3. Provide constant (not to be confused with daily) fixes/updates to the game to improve upon the major issues and concerns that appear in a relatively "acceptable" timetable. You shouldn't see something gamebreaking (as just a "throw it out there" example, when everyone spawns into the game you fall through the map and die)... continue to be gamebreaking over an extended period of time. Those issues should be addressed or at the very least (see #1) communicated to the people involved that it is being addressed.
The difference in a testing phase like this is that people have paid money for a product. Thus, the expectations are a bit higher. If Star Citizen came out right now in an Alpha... even more would be expected of them because they made MILLIONS of dollars to Rusts near $400,000. If hacking was/is a major issue in Star Citizen, you could very well expect the internet to catch fire with people upset and rightfully so.
Rust on the other hand has a lot more leeway and acceptance of time (to fix things) because it's a much smaller development team with a lot less resources. But none the less, a "free" Alpha where testers are invited in to help fix problems and report back vs paid to access the Alpha and report problems... is vastly different.[/QUOTE]
So you say their is no entitlement then you list a bunch of things you feel that you are entitled to lol. Ok dude I should have figured as much coming from you. As for the whole 24th baddie thing what I spoke is true but should be LESS focus then the topic at hand. The fact that you choose to not only acknowledge it but defend it BEFORE anything else really shows me alot about your character and kind of discredits anything you have to say about the game. Ego > problem at hand = arrogant/ignorant rants. This is your main problem and is even more apparent with your current rebuttal, you do not see past the 3 inches of your own broad minded prospective of what YOU feel entitled to.
Get over your self.
[QUOTE=teamvortex;42599343]So you say their is no entitlement then you list a bunch of things you feel that you are entitled to lol. Ok dude I should have figured as much coming from you. As for the whole 24th baddie thing what I spoke is true but should be LESS focus then the topic at hand. The fact that you choose to not only acknowledge it but defend it BEFORE anything else really shows me alot about your character and kind of discredits anything you have to say about the game. Ego > problem at hand = arrogant/ignorant rants. This is your main problem and is even more apparent with your current rebuttal, you do not see past the 3 inches of your own broad minded prospective of what YOU feel entitled to.
Get over your self.[/QUOTE]
No... I list a couple things that the industry standard has shown us is... *gasp* ... the standard. That MOST developers do that are proven to be quality developers. Nothing more than that.
You brought up my group, I'd love to hear you explain it beyond simple accusations and slander. Because I have no idea who you are, and nothing you've said holds any weight. Feel free to message me on these forums and explain why you felt it necessary to bad mouth my group and feel free to give examples. Because you're doing nothing but spewing nonsense for all to see.
At the stage its in now its my favorite pc game at the moment. I LOVE playing rust and i do get angered when i run into hackers, which has happened 4 times already, but that doesnt stop me from playing it, The money the developers are getting even gives them more chances to make the game better. I dont regret buying it, and i encourage my friends to buy it too. [QUOTE=Var;42595282]The game is in very early alpha development, this is clear on the purchase page, it is not yet optimized and people are having a hard time running it on amazing computers, my computer runs it fine, but it is at a $2500 cost. Hacking and glitching and bug fixing seems to be a last priority unless it is messing up the server by duping. Hacking is really easy and it sucks, Garry is just letting someone DDos the servers because he won't pay for any protection to the severs with his huge success of the game and all the money he has gained from it. KOSing is an issue because they won't add any incentive not to do so. Bambis are killed for no reason every second of the game. Just wait, hopefully the game will be better when it launches. I, personally, will just wait for the DayZ standalone as it will be way better than this I imagine.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42599387]No... I list a couple things that the industry standard has shown us is... *gasp* ... the standard. That MOST developers do that are proven to be quality developers. Nothing more than that.
You brought up my group, I'd love to hear you explain it beyond simple accusations and slander. Because I have no idea who you are, and nothing you've said holds any weight. Feel free to message me on these forums and explain why you felt it necessary to bad mouth my group and feel free to give examples. Because you're doing nothing but spewing nonsense for all to see.[/QUOTE]
Im Havoc... you know my name ;)
[QUOTE=teamvortex;42599414]Im Havoc... you know my name ;)[/QUOTE]
I've seen you in-game logging on and off and people screaming about being killed by you (I thought it was spelled "Havok" but I may be wrong). I have however, not run into you once. Nor have any of my guys.
[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42598577]I think the industry norm and standard right now is to release an Alpha and unfinished product then patch it as time progresses. As opposed to finishing the product first, then releasing it to the masses. I for one can't even recall the first game to really be guilty of that... but it's happening all over. So much so that Steam now has Greenlight and the ability to sell Alpha state games on there.
Strange times.[/QUOTE]
I don't blame the developers so much as I blame the gamer expectations personally. I think a lot of gamers in general demand the world the second they drop a cent into anything, and I can't really name a F2P community that was actually better then a P2P community.
Maybe it's a matter of who can yell the loudest, and when you're financially broke with plenty of time on your hands, you have plenty of energy to spare to be a competitive front runner for loudest voice.
My personal side-tracked rant aside, I don't necessarily agree with you on your comment. I feel there's not a lot of player understanding between the words "alpha" and "playable". A lot of people have been scrutinized for using "alpha" as a fall back term, but even those people likely don't understand what alpha actually means, given it's an evolutionary term that's completely based on the developer's personal interpretation of alpha/beta/release.
It seems like players think "playable" + "purchasable" = "near finished product". This is entirely untrue. You have purchased the game for when it's released and lucky they're opening servers for alpha, but that isn't right around the corner by any remote degree of plausibility. There's a long way to go, plenty of hackers and douches to overcome, and everyone just needs to keep their heads up and understand its a "one foot at a time" mentality. (Yes, we have several miles to go, get your popcorn ready for the FOTM issues that pop up everyone is upset about) Until that time, we're likely going to see server wipes, player hacking stupidity, and too many glitches to count on fingers and toes).
Just my opinion, but people need to restrain their opinions for late beta / pre-release. Things aren't close to great right now, but it seems like they're quickly getting there. A good ban-hammer pass after they've got a few hundred morons on the hit-list? Good days for the rest of us to go about our business as usual. Patience is key, and a "easy come, easy go" mentality is currently required.
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