Hacking isn't a priority right now, so deal with it. - Rust

[QUOTE=jjhend;42582445]To be honest guys, Its alot harder to fix than you think. The hackers arent using console commands/game based stuff. If I remember correctly Unity's engine is VERY exploitable and it would be near impossible to fix. Plus its in alpha so why release it now when it gives hackers more time to find ways around things for the final release. So either they are going to have to switch engines or get a GOOD anti-hack (Vac doesn't count anything with a 2nd grade education can bypass it)[/QUOTE] Besides the fact its using the shitty engine unity, do you have the games source code? are you on the dev team? I wouldn't be giving the devs a free-pass on this. Nothing is impossible. As also nothing is fully secure either. It's just a matter of what is looking like really shitty priorities on the devs part. But I'm just going on of my visual opinion and experience as of late. Who knows whats going on behind the scenes. I hope to see this game have its own engine.

[QUOTE=bstriker;42582551]I hope to see this game have its own engine.[/QUOTE] Do you realize the work involved in writing your own 3D FPS engine from the ground up? :v:

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42582564]Do you realize the work involved in writing your own 3D FPS engine from the ground up? :v:[/QUOTE] Yes. Do you realize how much this game is getting attention / income wise? Unity is great for testing the "concept" of a game. But great games, like quake, minecraft, star citizen all have their own engines designed specifically for the game. Anything else is basically a "mod" and a mod is bloated and full of previously known exploits. Not saying this is a mod, but you get my point. blocking-script kiddies, glitches, are all unity engine limits that require a lot of "extra" code to coverup. dayz is by far the best example

I've had some experience with the subject of hack/cheat prevention. Thing is, if you want a game that cannot be hacked, then you can never trust anything the player sends. Anything. Ever. If they can possibly manipulate information, someone out there will. And they will release those exploits to the hacker community. The ideal server only trusts the barest input from the players - essentially, players send the current state of their keyboard and mouse, and the server handles [B]everything.[/B] Of course, this generally results in lag - the player's action reaches the server, gets processed, and then sent back to the player. If you want to see this in action, play Second Life. You'll quickly notice the control lag. This is generally bad in first person shooters, so you need clients to immediately predict what the server is about to perform. This can result in desyncs, so the server needs to periodically correct the client about the current state of the game (more complicated than it sounds, and takes some care in order to avoid the dreaded "rubber banding" effect). This is all entirely doable, however (in the Unity game engine, even). I actually have to correct jjhend and bstriker on this matter -[B] it's not that Unity itself is exploitable[/B] (and sometimes it pains me to listen to people say things like that - Unity gets a bad rap for things which are the fault of people using Unity, not Unity itself), it's that the most common methods of writing netcode in Unity is highly exploitable. The problem is, generally players just tell the server what their position is. Easy to implement, very light network load, but unbelievably easy to hack. Moving all of the work to the server and having players only send basically the state of their keyboard and mouse is significantly harder to hack and would essentially eliminate all teleporting, lag stepping, damage value hacking, infinite ammo, noclip, etc, although it could put a much higher processing strain on the server. The changes required for this are usually pretty big, however, and the longer they wait, the harder it could become. It also takes a lot of care to make sure it feels lagless and doesn't frequently rubber-band.

[QUOTE=bstriker;42582593]Yes. Do you realize how much this game is getting attention / income wise? Unity is great for testing the "concept" of a game. But great games, like quake, minecraft, star citizen all have their own engines designed specifically for the game. Anything else is basically a "mod" and a mod is bloated and full of previously known exploits. Not saying this is a mod, but you get my point. blocking-script kiddies, glitches, are all unity engine limits that require a lot of "extra" code to coverup. dayz is by far the best example[/QUOTE] Not really relevant I know but so you consider all the source engine games a HL mod? :dance:

[QUOTE=Eagle771;42582615]Not really relevant I know but so you consider all the source engine games a HL mod? :dance:[/QUOTE] Speaking of which, I'd actually say Unity is one of the best game engines as far as this is concerned. It's not "modding" by any stretch of the imagination, because Unity is mostly just a blank slate. Sure, some things are handled for you - physics, scene structure, rendering, etc. But just about everything else is up to you. By contrast, when using the Unreal engine I always felt like I was modding Unreal Tournament. Just didn't feel right.

[QUOTE=Eagle771;42582615]Not really relevant I know but so you consider all the source engine games a HL mod? :dance:[/QUOTE] lol they basically are. Most of them started out as mods. Bought out by valve. Closed the source. Then integrated it into a more "polished standalone version" Hell original half life was created from the quake engine. [editline]20th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42582634]Speaking of which, I'd actually say Unity is one of the best game engines as far as this is concerned. It's not "modding" by any stretch of the imagination, because Unity is mostly just a blank slate. Sure, some things are handled for you - physics, scene structure, rendering, etc. But just about everything else is up to you. By contrast, when using the Unreal engine I always felt like I was modding Unreal Tournament. Just didn't feel right.[/QUOTE] This is a very truthful statement, touche. I guess I'm just and old school gamer, missing the good old days.

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games"]Goddamn, look at all these Unreal mods.[/URL]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42582651][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games"]Goddamn, look at all these mods.[/URL][/QUOTE] To be fair, a lot of really good games have been made with the Unreal engine, and a lot of them don't even remotely look like Unreal Tournament. But it was my experience while working with UDK that many features existed in UE3 specifically for games made by Epic (like Unreal Tournement, and I actually remember a dismemberment feature for ragdolls where the documentation mentioned the feature being made for Gears of War) that were generalized and added to the engine.

[QUOTE=bstriker;42582638]lol they basically are. Most of them started out as mods. Bought out by valve. Closed the source. Then integrated it into a more "polished standalone version" Hell original half life was created from the quake engine. [editline]20th October 2013[/editline] This is a very truthful statement, touche. I guess I'm just and old school gamer, missing the good old days.[/QUOTE] Yes, somehow i knew you were going to write that, gamer sense, you are correct they were originally mods as all of us know, although a lot of the actual games are nothing mechanics wise like the original counterpart for example tf2, dota 2 is a good example of opposite of that though as its almost an exact replication.

[QUOTE=Eagle771;42582687]Yes, somehow i knew you were going to write that, gamer sense, you are correct they were originally mods as all of us know, although a lot of the actual games are nothing mechanics wise like the original counterpart for example tf2, dota 2 is a good example of opposite of that though as its almost an exact replication.[/QUOTE] Just because you make a total conversion, add a few mechanics to a game, does not classify it as its own game. There are things you simply cant change. For example: source engine bullet mechanics, physics, hit registration, net code. But we've gone way off topic at this point. Hacking, exploits, whatever anyone wants to call it needs to be fixed, unity engine or not.

Maybe hacking is good for development ? I mean, by allowing hackers to use cheats, maybe the team is learning technics that are used by them and will be able to make the game "safer" later ?

[QUOTE=bstriker;42582735]Just because you make a total conversion, add a few mechanics to a game, does not classify it as its own game. There are things you simply cant change. For example: source engine bullet mechanics, physics, hit registration, net code. But we've gone way off topic at this point. Hacking, exploits, whatever anyone wants to call it needs to be fixed, unity engine or not.[/QUOTE] Yes way off topic but just so you know The bullet mechanics do vary from game to game for example bullet pen even physics vary slightly. But your right about hit registration (like hitscan) and netcode. Your last point I completely agree with if course :) We could prob argue the source thing for ages though with no real end in sight lol so enough on that

[QUOTE=zewho;42582756]Maybe hacking is good for development ? I mean, by allowing hackers to use cheats, maybe the team is learning technics that are used by them and will be able to make the game "safer" later ?[/QUOTE] Well there isn't much the devs can actually see as to how they are doing it besides the packets they are sending the server. Watching someone do it for a day makes sense. watching 30+ people for a week? ha..

Saw Garry reply to a sleeper thread. I'd like to see a comment here to let us know what the plan is.

[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42583982]Saw Garry reply to a sleeper thread. I'd like to see a comment here to let us know what the plan is.[/QUOTE] i made a link to this on the other one, but guessing u might have alrdy seen that

[QUOTE=avincent;42581392]It's funny because everyone cries like little girls because hackers are ruining their 'alpha experience'. Face it, all of you are just playing for enjoyment and crying about hackers because they're ruining your experience. Nothing you do now will ever carry over to the final release. Just remember that.[/QUOTE] I think the only thing that would ever carry over is the fact that we wont have to buy it again.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42582595] The ideal server only trusts the barest input from the players - essentially, players send the current state of their keyboard and mouse, and the server handles [B]everything.[/B] Of course, this generally results in lag - the player's action reaches the server, gets processed, and then sent back to the player. If you want to see this in action, play Second Life. [/QUOTE] The client can react to user input directly and the server can be predictive and only need to intervene if the input and position changes don't jive. Detecting someone flying is pretty easy -- the server predicts the player should be falling, but the player doesn't. Point is, the client doesn't have to just be a dumb terminal to prevent client hacks, so lag isn't an inevitability.

Yet another thread making me question whether or not to buy the game....

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;42586587]The client can react to user input directly and the server can be predictive and only need to intervene if the input and position changes don't jive. Detecting someone flying is pretty easy -- the server predicts the player should be falling, but the player doesn't. Point is, the client doesn't have to just be a dumb terminal to prevent client hacks, so lag isn't an inevitability.[/QUOTE] Read the rest of what I said. The client sends this input to the server, and then predicts the result locally. In my own implementations of this, the client simulates, and then sends input plus what it thinks the result should be to the server. The server then simulates and compares what the actual result is to what the client thinks the result should be. If they are sufficiently different, the server sends a correction to the client. This is pretty much the basis of networking in Source, and just about eliminates all lag.

Umm... why was my thread title changed to: "Hacking isn't a priority right now, so deal with it." It used to read something like: "Hacking Needs to be Addressed Before Anything Else..." Did a mod do that, or a dev? I'm unable to change it back and that statement is pretty unprofessional. Makes me look like I wrote it, and that's certainly NOT what my thread is about. If a mod/dev wants to comment and make that statement as a reply... ok. But please don't change my text to reflect a statement like that when I didn't make it. Thanks.

Welcome to Facepunch. I'm guessing it was garry who changed it, though it could've been Max or one of the FP staff that are developing Rust. Also, maybe you haven't noticed but there are plenty of these threads, and changing the title sends a more immediate, direct message. The "why" ought to be self-evident: hacking isn't a priority for the devs at the moment, deal with it instead of clogging up the forums with shit threads.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42587772]Welcome to Facepunch. I'm guessing it was garry who changed it, though it could've been Max or one of the FP staff that are developing Rust. Also, maybe you haven't noticed but there are plenty of these threads, and changing the title sends a more immediate, direct message.[/QUOTE] Changing the title, makes a statement. One of which I didn't make. I don't like words put in my mouth, but if I'm told exactly that in a statement (reply) I would accept it.

[QUOTE=PrimusPalus;42587705]Umm... why was my thread title changed to: "Hacking isn't a priority right now, so deal with it." Did a mod do that, or a dev?[/QUOTE] They are obviously trying to make a statement

Guess thats the way devs says, we don't freaking care :)

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42587772]The "why" ought to be self-evident: hacking isn't a priority for the devs at the moment, deal with it instead of clogging up the forums with shit threads.[/QUOTE] That made me laugh, so add sleeping so hackers have an easier time killing ppl while offline is higher priority then stopping the hackers. Oh, and i might be wrong not looked at it yet myself, but as i just logged in ppl on the PvE server was talking about killing ppl that was "sleeping" cause it turn PvP on, even on the PvE server, anyone know if this is correct? ill be looking around for sleeping ppl myself and see.

[QUOTE=Dioden;42587841]That made me laugh, so add sleeping so hackers have an easier time killing ppl while offline is higher priority then stopping the hackers.[/QUOTE] Do you not even understand what the purpose of alpha testing is?

[QUOTE=avincent;42587821]They are obviously trying to make a statement[/QUOTE] Yeah, like I said it's better if they make a statement than changing my title. I can appreciate and respect an official response... I don't want people seeing the thread title and thinking that is what the thread is about.

Laughing at how they changed OP's title

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42587859]Do you not even understand what the purpose of alpha testing is?[/QUOTE] How they are supposed to "alpha test" something if they can't get any real data or feedback on it because hackers just stomp everything??