Sleeper servers. Keep sleeper discussion to this thread - Rust

sleepers makes it 100% easier to grief, you can just box people in that logged off, blow the door and doorway and put a wall and you ruined his life

I think they should add rest to the game so players have to log off for a little bit so their character can sleep, this way players cant play like 24 hours and go on endless raid streaks

[QUOTE=AQ.Frontal;42578659]I think it's a great idea. Fixes both mid siege loggers and all kind of combat loggers, but I don't think the game is ready for this kind of feature. To only name a few: -Houses can easily be raided at 4 AM server timezone. (minor issue, it's more community/your house build related than game mechanics. It's pretty much a sandbox feature) -Duping, mainly of C4. -Hackers that no clip into bases and just kill you (oh, I can imagine how these guys would love a sleeper server) -General balancing of game mechanics like c4 damage/building resistance ratio. -Exploits, for example box placements on walls to climb houses. It is a great idea, and if it works is a great addition to any more hardcore server (my kind of server), but atm I don't think the game is ready for it and I can't imagine many people testing this out thoroughly. Any testing of this feature without all the above fixed would probably result in bad testing and general mad by the testers. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] For those that are like "wat?!" and obviously don't read the news page of rust. This thread is related to [url]http://www.playrust.com/news/121/[/url][/QUOTE] how bout....after you disconnect, you're toon fall asleep for like an hour, then you're toon totally disappear, that would discourage people disconnect with all the goodies while raided...sorry if that already been spoken but there is too much post and i wanna play :P

Please for the love of god dont add turrets and laser anything. Garry please dont. If people didn't think m4s made sense why would automated turrets? keep it grounded in reality.

They should also add a group/clan system, just sayin.

While I don't know the completed vision for this game, I do know that I have spent a lot of my time in the past few days either playing Rust or thinking about what I'll be doing next. In that time, a lot has happened that I am certain has happened to others in the game. I've died. A lot. I've had nothing but a rock and bandages and, surprise, someone in kevlar shoots me down. Does this discourage me from playing? No. That being said, I've toyed around on the UK sleepers experiment server, because I got to thinking about it. How often do I go into someone's house with my hatchet and there's nothing inside? A lot. That is wasted time and food, food I can't get back without more potential risk of getting killed. You could say it is a risk of playing the game, gambling on if it is worth breaking into that house or not, but that makes no sense. If I come up to some place that has a wooden door intact, I should have at least a decent chance of finding something to improve my survival. Now, while I can agree that sleepers could be a dangerous implementation, I do not think that this is going to be something that's going to contribute to game addiction. I think this is just an excuse for those that are leaning on the system of taking all key items into their inventory before leaving. Game addiction can be caused by anything, because, much like any mental dependency, you can become addicted to anything. Does the threat of game addiction stop companies like Blizzard from continuing to put out World of Warcraft content? No. We're all adults here. Let's leave social issues out and focus on the real concern. Let's everyone remember that this is an alpha game. This is, by no means, a completed game and will be going through some changes. Some you are going to like and some you aren't. In an effort to promote realism, I believe that sleepers makes sense. Are there some balancing issues that need to be worked out? I'd say so, given that I joined onto US Central within a few minutes of it coming up and I could hear gunshots in the distance. Let's just wait and see, since sleepers aren't a forced implementation yet.

And how do we do if we are on vacations and we can't connect for like one week?

Sleepers will not be the main feature server-type. . .EVER. That isn't garry's intent.

Perhaps you will have to depend on the kindness of strangers? Create a hidden cache somewhere of your best items, just in case? Make friends in the game that are trustworthy? Let's remember here. This is a game. Every time I've died, I've managed to get my stuff back, if not more, by learning from the experience.

We need to think of a solution to stop people from taking their stuff and logging off, but the sleepers experiment wouldn't get great for it. Maybe for combat loggers, and that it could last 1 min or so, but not when logging off.

well sleeping is part of surviving it makes it more challenging

I don't like theoretical reasons as to why it won't work. We're trying it. That's the only way to tell. If we made decisions based on assumptions Rust wouldn't even exist.

[QUOTE=garry;42584582]I don't like theoretical reasons as to why it won't work. We're trying it. That's the only way to tell. If we made decisions based on assumptions Rust wouldn't even exist.[/QUOTE] What if there was a system to where when you log out your items were to be dropped on the ground? Or maybe the items in your hot bar are the only items you can keep. Along with this you can keep this "ghost" idea where the character stays behind for another 60 seconds after the person disconnects.

[QUOTE=garry;42584582]I don't like theoretical reasons as to why it won't work. We're trying it. That's the only way to tell. If we made decisions based on assumptions Rust wouldn't even exist.[/QUOTE] Gary, we all love your game but that's sad that you doesn't want to hear the community feedback. I'm a good customer (i bought gary's mod too) and i love it. I would like to do the best of my possible to help you to improve your game with all the community, we know that's your game, we know you can do anything you want to it too. But that's just some suggestions about the new features. You can take them or not, that's your choice. Thanks for your comprehension

[QUOTE=garry;42584582]I don't like theoretical reasons as to why it won't work. We're trying it. That's the only way to tell. If we made decisions based on assumptions Rust wouldn't even exist.[/QUOTE] I think logging out should make you go to "sleep" for maybe 10-30 mins instead of all night. Then people have a fair chance to kill you and you have a chance to get offline, before a clan wipes the server as they do every day.

I see this feature as a marmite. You either love it or hate it. Which is why I think it's important that if we get the option to host dedicated servers that this be a feature that can be turned on/off. If it stays as official facepunch servers only (which I think would be a great shame - though that's an entirely different debate), then there should be a variety of different setups to appeal to [B][U]everyone[/U][/B]. Personally I think the point of the PvE server is silly, but I understand and respect that others enjoy playing like that and it's narrow-minded of me to rule it out as a playstyle because it's not my cup of tea. Afterall, the PvE server had experimental slapped on it before the last wipe, and the game is Alpha. The sleeper is also experimental. We are testing a far from finished product here. I really disagree with the OP and I think the "sleeper" has a lot of potential and is a great idea. Having said that, I also agree it's not ideal in the current state of the game and I think it's going to be easily written off as a horrible idea because of that. This thread: [URL]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1316807[/URL] addresses some of the issues currently and offers some solutions i.e. traps to protect yourself. This feature isn't for those in the community which get upset because they get raided by a bigger group (online or offline). If you for example logout of the sleeper server and are worried during your day to day life about if you've been brutally violated while offline then I really don't think you've got the right mindset. For me the fun isn't from HODORing lots of stuff and stroking myself whilst looking in my storage boxes, it's the "startup". You know, those first like 48 hours of gameplay where it feels like kill or be killed. When I have a steady supply of C4, kevlar and M4s the game to me gets pretty dull. I'm one of those guys which apparently should die of cancer, in a fire, by monkeys abusing my butt and lots of other strangely creative deaths. I do kinda wish people would focus that hateful creativity elsewhere instead of wasting their time trying to hurt my feelings over a game. When you get in that position (and I've played in a mix of organised groups consisting of 3-15 players) it becomes boring very quickly once you hit that "end". The game literally turns into an arena deathmatch, and lets be honest, the gun play though enjoyable is point and click. Doesn't exactly require lots of individual skill (though team play is important and that's where the skill is). When I'm at that point I don't need to give a second thought about who i'm attacking because if I die it's whatever, and chances are I'm going to drop that sucker as two headshots kills a kevlar guy; just need to pick the right moment. /Yawn - gets old quick. The excitement and thrill for me personally is when you've got very little which makes that very little matter so much. I like it when I die and it actually hurts my progression. I like taking risks and being rewarded but I also like taking a risk and it going wrong. The most fun I've had was being the underdogs of the server against a much bigger, much better organised, more experienced and better geared group that was running over everyone including us. You know.. those times when you've only got a P250, small house and you're questioning yourself on a hill looking down at three guys in cloth putting their walls on their new foundations, and you're asking yourself if it's worthwhile trying to engage in a dialogue with them or trying to gun all of them down and make it away with their stuff. Well, usually the gunning them down works pretty terribly when suddenly a bunch of doors open on nearby towers and you're gunned down like a rabid dog. But that's the fun. Either way I digress, my point is the fun is the fight to survive. Losing stuff is fun, no matter how far progressed you are - yes, being killed while naked with nothing is an annoyance, but that's simply because ammo, guns etc are too easily accessible. That's an issue with the current state of the game, sleeper experiment or not. My group has self wiped a couple of times simply because it's more enjoyable. Maybe we're masochists, or maybe we have a different mindset. If someone rolls over me, I don't get mad or curse, I set out to return the favor. Now I'm not saying this sleeper feature should be rolled out to all servers or be a fixed feature of the game at all - now that imo would be silly. Offering a variety of ways to play is key here. Everyone likes different things and the game should be able to be played in a variety of ways. If I put the time into raiding someone, or if someone puts the time into raiding me then it should be very worthwhile. They shouldn't just find empty chests. Now yes, I get it. C4 is way too easy to get currently, especially for bigger groups / groups that play hell of a lot more. If you control the airdrops a few times then you'll be swimming in C4. Though once again, that's an issue with the current state of the alpha. Infact.. most of the issues with the "sleeper" being bought up stems from issues with the game in its current state i.e. it's stupid because hackers can just no clip into your house and kill you sleeping. Well screw me sideways and call me bessy, if that's part of your best reasoning for removing it then what's the point in playing the game anyway? A hacker can just no clip and kill you after you login. It's not hard to see who logs in then TP to them, slaughter them, take everything. That's a technicality that needs to be dealt with, and the game is in alpha. I'm sure they're working on better anti-cheat methods and I'm glad the hackers are being so obvious and vocal because it forces the developers to do something about it. Another example, C4 being to easy to make so someone who plays a lot can just raid you while you're offline and kill you. How do you even know that C4 is going to be in the game in three weeks? Maybe Garry and crew have already decided they'll be removing C4 in its current implementation and in place implementing home made explosives. These explosives could be really really difficult to make, hard to transport and have potential of backfiring. Raiding needs to have high investment and high risk, but also big rewards. Logging off with the majority of your valuables just doesn't seem right and I've found it a chore to have to take / place items back and forwards between chests. I've found myself logging out during a raid rather then fighting because of gear. It's stupid. I should be fighting for my life, going out like scarface, not logging off like a girl just to spite the raiders. As far as I'm aware the game isn't meant to be about hording everything in a safe place. If someone invests a lot into trying to ruin my day then good on them. I'll pay them back in due time. Lets pretend there's no box exploits and people can't just build normal building parts up to your other floors and instead need to use ladders (which can be destroyed fairly easy by the defenders - though that doesn't exactly help if you're offline of course), so you intentionally build an open window on the top so they ladder up to it (easy breach point). They find a door to blow that goes into what looks like to be a storage room. They open one of the chests in that room then boom, guy dies to some sort of wire tripped explosive, maybe there's a cobra in the box - who knows, I'm throwing random thoughts off the top of my head out there. Basically, they've breached into a Trap room that you've intentionally placed to lure raiders. The raiders had no idea. That's being creative. Imagine trip wires, and all other kind of traps you could setup. Imagine you can poison food so they take your food and end up dying themselves - now that's some karma for you. Now what's to stop a group just setting off all those traps and relooting their corpses? Well depending on the type of damage and where that damage was placed, items on the player could be damaged / destroyed (taking a leaf out of the new feature mentioned for DayZ Standalone - this has already been bou

[QUOTE=garry;42584582]I don't like theoretical reasons as to why it won't work. We're trying it. That's the only way to tell. If we made decisions based on assumptions Rust wouldn't even exist.[/QUOTE] True in theory. And not that I personally disagree with the [B]Sleeper [/B]business/gaming model for Rust. However, based on years of multiplayer gaming reality business models, [B]permadeath[/B], which is basically what your toying with with [B]Sleeper [/B]mode as it relates to the eventual loss of all tangible in-game items over-night that a player has accrued, will only appeal to a minute fraction of 24-7 basement dweller players; it's just the way it is. Now, have servers that are like that, which are considered hardcore, and servers that don't enable that feature and you've a playable game that appeals to the core audience of survival apocalyptic gaming enthusiasts and the very transient hardcore gamers. But that's me. . .I dont think anyone should think that Rust will only have Sleeper enabled, and that goes with the eventual private servers as well.

[QUOTE=theo647;42584668]Gary, we all love your game but that's sad that you doesn't want to hear the community feedback. I'm a good customer (i bought gary's mod too) and i love it. I would like to do the best of my possible to help you to improve your game with all the community, we know that's your game, we know you can do anything you want to it too. But that's just some suggestions about the new features. You can take them or not, that's your choice. Thanks for your comprehension[/QUOTE] I am hearing feedback, I haven't heard a reason why we shouldn't do it. It's an alpha, it's in development. This is an idea we have had for a while and it solves a lot of problems. Breaking balance isn't an issue right now - and that's what most of the complaints are about. Rust is already horribly unbalanced towards raiders. We need to address that by adding more defensive tools. We know this. But that shouldn't prevent the game pushing in other directions too.

[QUOTE=garry;42582851]What should we do to discourage people from working together and playing the game a lot?[/QUOTE] Nice straw man. I said that these folks already have all the advantages and they don't need anymore. Soloing can be hard, but it doesn't need to be punished. I tried the US East Sleeper when it came out and enjoyed what seemed like a pretty good player to server ratio until a group of three kids no clipped into my house and killed me, all the while yelling insults. I am not sure what your goal is business model wise is, but it seems to be that games like this that are one time purchase and not subscription based do well because a lot of people play some, not because some people play a lot, your clever straw man argument notwithstanding.

I don't know why you would bring business models in. This isn't a business decision. It's a game decision. It fits the game perfectly. Maybe not the game you're playing right now - but the game we're heading towards.

[QUOTE=malcster505;42584793]I see this feature as a marmite. You either love it or hate it. Which is why I think it's important that if we get the option to host dedicated servers that this be a feature that can be turned on/off. If it stays as official facepunch servers only (which I think would be a great shame - though that's an entirely different debate), then there should be a variety of different setups to appeal to [B][U]everyone[/U][/B]. Personally I think the point of the PvE server is silly, but I understand and respect that others enjoy playing like that and it's narrow-minded of me to rule it out as a playstyle because it's not my cup of tea. Afterall, the PvE server had experimental slapped on it before the last wipe, and the game is Alpha. The sleeper is also experimental. We are testing a far from finished product here. I really disagree with the OP and I think the "sleeper" has a lot of potential and is a great idea. Having said that, I also agree it's not ideal in the current state of the game and I think it's going to be easily written off as a horrible idea because of that. This thread: [URL]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1316807[/URL] addresses some of the issues currently and offers some solutions i.e. traps to protect yourself. This feature isn't for those in the community which get upset because they get raided by a bigger group (online or offline). If you for example logout of the sleeper server and are worried during your day to day life about if you've been brutally violated while offline then I really don't think you've got the right mindset. For me the fun isn't from HODORing lots of stuff and stroking myself whilst looking in my storage boxes, it's the "startup". You know, those first like 48 hours of gameplay where it feels like kill or be killed. When I have a steady supply of C4, kevlar and M4s the game to me gets pretty dull. I'm one of those guys which apparently should die of cancer, in a fire, by monkeys abusing my butt and lots of other strangely creative deaths. I do kinda wish people would focus that hateful creativity elsewhere instead of wasting their time trying to hurt my feelings over a game. When you get in that position (and I've played in a mix of organised groups consisting of 3-15 players) it becomes boring very quickly once you hit that "end". The game literally turns into an arena deathmatch, and lets be honest, the gun play though enjoyable is point and click. Doesn't exactly require lots of individual skill (though team play is important and that's where the skill is). When I'm at that point I don't need to give a second thought about who i'm attacking because if I die it's whatever, and chances are I'm going to drop that sucker as two headshots kills a kevlar guy; just need to pick the right moment. /Yawn - gets old quick. The excitement and thrill for me personally is when you've got very little which makes that very little matter so much. I like it when I die and it actually hurts my progression. I like taking risks and being rewarded but I also like taking a risk and it going wrong. The most fun I've had was being the underdogs of the server against a much bigger, much better organised, more experienced and better geared group that was running over everyone including us. You know.. those times when you've only got a P250, small house and you're questioning yourself on a hill looking down at three guys in cloth putting their walls on their new foundations, and you're asking yourself if it's worthwhile trying to engage in a dialogue with them or trying to gun all of them down and make it away with their stuff. Well, usually the gunning them down works pretty terribly when suddenly a bunch of doors open on nearby towers and you're gunned down like a rabid dog. But that's the fun. Either way I digress, my point is the fun is the fight to survive. Losing stuff is fun, no matter how far progressed you are - yes, being killed while naked with nothing is an annoyance, but that's simply because ammo, guns etc are too easily accessible. That's an issue with the current state of the game, sleeper experiment or not. My group has self wiped a couple of times simply because it's more enjoyable. Maybe we're masochists, or maybe we have a different mindset. If someone rolls over me, I don't get mad or curse, I set out to return the favor. Now I'm not saying this sleeper feature should be rolled out to all servers or be a fixed feature of the game at all - now that imo would be silly. Offering a variety of ways to play is key here. Everyone likes different things and the game should be able to be played in a variety of ways. If I put the time into raiding someone, or if someone puts the time into raiding me then it should be very worthwhile. They shouldn't just find empty chests. Now yes, I get it. C4 is way too easy to get currently, especially for bigger groups / groups that play hell of a lot more. If you control the airdrops a few times then you'll be swimming in C4. Though once again, that's an issue with the current state of the alpha. Infact.. most of the issues with the "sleeper" being bought up stems from issues with the game in its current state i.e. it's stupid because hackers can just no clip into your house and kill you sleeping. Well screw me sideways and call me bessy, if that's part of your best reasoning for removing it then what's the point in playing the game anyway? A hacker can just no clip and kill you after you login. It's not hard to see who logs in then TP to them, slaughter them, take everything. That's a technicality that needs to be dealt with, and the game is in alpha. I'm sure they're working on better anti-cheat methods and I'm glad the hackers are being so obvious and vocal because it forces the developers to do something about it. Another example, C4 being to easy to make so someone who plays a lot can just raid you while you're offline and kill you. How do you even know that C4 is going to be in the game in three weeks? Maybe Garry and crew have already decided they'll be removing C4 in its current implementation and in place implementing home made explosives. These explosives could be really really difficult to make, hard to transport and have potential of backfiring. Raiding needs to have high investment and high risk, but also big rewards. Logging off with the majority of your valuables just doesn't seem right and I've found it a chore to have to take / place items back and forwards between chests. I've found myself logging out during a raid rather then fighting because of gear. It's stupid. I should be fighting for my life, going out like scarface, not logging off like a girl just to spite the raiders. As far as I'm aware the game isn't meant to be about hording everything in a safe place. If someone invests a lot into trying to ruin my day then good on them. I'll pay them back in due time. Lets pretend there's no box exploits and people can't just build normal building parts up to your other floors and instead need to use ladders (which can be destroyed fairly easy by the defenders - though that doesn't exactly help if you're offline of course), so you intentionally build an open window on the top so they ladder up to it (easy breach point). They find a door to blow that goes into what looks like to be a storage room. They open one of the chests in that room then boom, guy dies to some sort of wire tripped explosive, maybe there's a cobra in the box - who knows, I'm throwing random thoughts off the top of my head out there. Basically, they've breached into a Trap room that you've intentionally placed to lure raiders. The raiders had no idea. That's being creative. Imagine trip wires, and all other kind of traps you could setup. Imagine you can poison food so they take your food and end up dying themselves - now that's some karma for you. Now what's to stop a group just setting off all those traps and relooting their corpses? Well depending on the type of damage and where that damage was placed, items on the player could be damaged / destroyed (taking a leaf out of

Now I will start out by saying "I do not own the game yet" so all of this is from what I have seen on videos and read from post. So take this with a grain of salt. What is all the QQ about? Thy are trying something new to stop one of the big problems in this game. Yes hacking and jerks are a big part of it right now but the incentive to raid is also a problem. Right now people only seem to raid when thy (a) want to mess up some ones base or (b) know people are in it and hope thy get to them before thy log. Right now this is a server type of its own (like pve) and there is no word that it will be for all servers (that I have seen). I really wonder how many of you have even tried it. The game is changing and growing every day and with it new ideas are being added, thy are hearing out our voice and taking notes. For this type of forum to be made and this much hate to be shown on something that is 17 hours old. Come on people. Hackers will thin out we will get protection from them. Privet servers will thin out the jerks. Its a rough time to try something like this but hay If you can't test stuff in alpha when can you? So instead of yelling, crying, and stating thy don't hear your voice. Try it out see what problems come up form what has happen to you not what you think TEST IT! I hope that I get to stand on the ground floor with you all and help make this game as great as it looks like it will be.

[QUOTE=garry;42584965]I don't know why you would bring business models in. This isn't a business decision. It's a game decision. It fits the game perfectly. Maybe not the game you're playing right now - but the game we're heading towards.[/QUOTE] I know this isn't a business decision. I only made that point because you were saying that having people work together and play all the time was a good thing. If the servers are run by the kinds of folks who can afford to play all the time and the game is heavily balanced not just in their favor to be successful, but also heavily balanced against the folks that don't to their detriment, the latter may not stick around. Fair enough regarding your point about where the game is heading towards. If sleepers stays an option on some servers until it becomes easier to defend your base while absent, then I guess I won't really have an opinion until that becomes a reality. Will it make sense long term? Hard to say right now because, as you said in another thread, the game is already heavily unbalanced towards raiders. Seems to me the sleepers option makes it even more so. My opinion was based on how the game is now with adding sleepers, not how the game will be in the future after adding sleepers and improving raider versus defender balance. My opinion might very well be different in that scenario.

[QUOTE=trickcard;42584995]Now I will start out by saying "I do not own the game yet" so all of this is from what I have seen on videos and read from post. So take this with a grain of salt. What is all the QQ about? Thy are trying something new to stop one of the big problems in this game. Yes hacking and jerks are a big part of it right now but the incentive to raid is also a problem. Right now people only seem to raid when thy (a) want to mess up some ones base or (b) know people are in it and hope thy get to them before thy log. [/QUOTE] As someone who has played the game for a little bit, my early impressions are that this is not the case. I have seen lots of raiding. People unfortunate enough to show up later and are only in a shelter get raided all the time. Smaller bases get raiding quite a bit too. The larger bases don't because you never know who is inside at any given time, and I'm not sure sleepers would tip it enough to overcome the uncertainty. What about making the personal inventory smaller? If fewer items can be held, bases will have more items in them. That would make big bases more attractive targets.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3YIHYIM.gif?1[/IMG]

I forgot something I thought about last night while playing US East Sleepers. Can you disable the connected and disconnected messages on sleeper servers? If you know who a guy is that lives in the house next to you, knowing they have disconnected is a huge advantage on sleepers servers. Also, change the /msg response if a player isn't on the server so you can't 'ping' them to see if they are on or off.

I think this can work, it just needs some tweaks and tools for it to work more effectively. I'd suggest for a special metal-case sleeping closet. Just walk into it, close the closet and log off.

[QUOTE=AQ.Frontal;42578659]I think it's a great idea. Fixes both mid siege loggers and all kind of combat loggers, but I don't think the game is ready for this kind of feature. To only name a few: -Houses can easily be raided at 4 AM server timezone. (minor issue, it's more community/your house build related than game mechanics. It's pretty much a sandbox feature) -Duping, mainly of C4. -Hackers that no clip into bases and just kill you (oh, I can imagine how these guys would love a sleeper server) -General balancing of game mechanics like c4 damage/building resistance ratio. -Exploits, for example box placements on walls to climb houses. It is a great idea, and if it works is a great addition to any more hardcore server (my kind of server), but atm I don't think the game is ready for it and I can't imagine many people testing this out thoroughly. Any testing of this feature without all the above fixed would probably result in bad testing and general mad by the testers. [editline]19th October 2013[/editline] For those that are like "wat?!" and obviously don't read the news page of rust. This thread is related to [url]http://www.playrust.com/news/121/[/url][/QUOTE] Signed. [editline]20th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=garry;42582223]This is kind of a good thing. We're creating problems that we need to add solutions to. Base keeps getting raided? Make it more secure with turrets, or booby traps or something. This is the kind of thing we want.[/QUOTE] I want trip wire ! or maybe something like they had in half life - sentry mines more advanced trip wire, or give us a shovel and let us craft spikes from wood that hit you as you enter a door with c4 so its not like ok yay we just c4'd a wall lets all rush in " which we do alot to get to the goodies " so they rush in and bam get hit by a booby trap in the face! or fall into one outside before even applying the c4

[QUOTE=garry;42583836]Building houses, creating storage boxes, creating defences means nothing if you don't actually stay in there. If you just jump off the server and take all your inventory with you.. your house might as well dissapear too. All the points you make are things that you need to solve yourself. The game is meant to be harsh. You are going to get rushed and have all your stuff stolen. The people attacking you are in exactly the same position - there's nothing stopping you from rushing them and stealing their stuff. Complaining because people play the game better than you is not a reason to stop evolving the game. It's our job to create these problems and then help you find solutions. Too easy to invade your base? So maybe we need to look at better defences, maybe you need to make friends and build a stronghold.[/QUOTE] This may not be related (dont ban me for it) but, are you ever going to fix the problem with amd cards? also, i agree with Garry.

I didnt read this whole thread so It may have been suggested but.. WHAT IF instead of being "sleeping" when you logged off, your body was still there but as an NPC? And it attacks anything in a 5 foot radius that comes near it? This could be a problem for teamates but I sure they could figure something out. This would keep the risk of logging off but at least would add some chance of survival? Idk