Sleeper servers. Keep sleeper discussion to this thread - Rust

[QUOTE=garry;42582851]What should we do to discourage people from working together and playing the game a lot?[/QUOTE] Encourage people to pick up the game as a second job.

[QUOTE=nate252;42585310]I didnt read this whole thread so It may have been suggested but.. WHAT IF instead of being "sleeping" when you logged off, your body was still there but as an NPC? And it attacks anything in a 5 foot radius that comes near it? This could be a problem for teamates but I sure they could figure something out. This would keep the risk of logging off but at least would add some chance of survival? Idk[/QUOTE] Snipers/people with guns can easily take them out.

I do like this idea. I have no problems so far. I was able to estabilish quite big base with plenty of metal doors which makes me feel safe :) The real problem is HACKERS.

Hardly much point in raiding. Why? By the time anyone have enough C4 to blow through multiple doors the player/group doing the raiding wouldn't even need loot cause they already got....everything? Heck the only point in raiding at the moment is to just waste crap you gathered to try and enjoy a game that has no other point than preparing you to slaughter other players. And before you say "that's why it's alpha" Why not do something different and add more to the environment to test? ex -AI transporting loot from point A to B -A currency system -Bounty system to place bounty on other players -A safe/not safe town where you can trade with AI/buy/sell -A new map. Jungle anyone? -Women character wink wink -Maybe a public transporting system like a train that goes around a map and anyone can go on. -A farming system where you can plant food or trees. -Fishing anyone? These are just a few ideas. It's just that I see so many games calling themselves "survival game" but how much truth is there to that? Do we just throw in pvp and call it survival? If so then you might as well call every game with pvp a "Survival game". I want to see jungles, deserts, snow etc. I want to see more added to the environment and more danger besides real players. And before you say "this game isn't for you" Well think for a moment and ask yourself. What IS the meaning of a survival game? Is it shooting other players day in day out with no other threat like every other survival game I'm playing? I just want to see a game someday where they can truly and proudly say "We are the first REAL survival game"

Maybe once anyone can host Rust servers of their own, [B]have an option to turn sleepers mode on or off[/B]? Then people can choose whether they want to join a server with it or not.

[QUOTE=garry;42584965]I don't know why you would bring business models in. This isn't a business decision. It's a game decision. It fits the game perfectly. Maybe not the game you're playing right now - but the game we're heading towards.[/QUOTE] garry this is a bit off topic possibly? anyway the normal servers also have the sleeping feature even though the server title says that it is normal

[QUOTE=garry;42582361]The endgame is to have a tech tree that brushes into things like laser triggers, turrets, electricity. Not in a store bought way, but in a home made electronics kind of way.[/QUOTE] Now this is pretty sweet. It's easy to forget how early we are because what's there feels so solid. I'm more of a solo player so the ability to trick out my base is very interesting...

Survival. What's the point of playing a game that focus on building a bunker, a town, a community and surviving either alone, by building far away from any human eye, or with a group by building a safe haven for your people. What's the point in all this if you don't really ever lose anything. -Get raided? Log out with your stuff. -Get attacked in the wild? Sprint until you are safe to log out. -Got a base? What's the point just logout with anything worthwhile. Sandbox. This is what most people looking for an open world freedom based survivor game want. Sandbox. The chance to interact with people and dictate who lives and who dies. Be nice to people and they will help you, be hatefull towards people and they will rise up and kill you. Sandbox. Something only possible if we have features that allow it. Risk vs reward is one of the most basic principles that rule over real life AND sandbox games. People that cannot see this are most likely looking for a game that is not rust. People that blame numbers and groups and see them as flaws in the game design are NOT looking for a sandbox multiplayer game. Numbers are always an advantage, you are the one that chose not to team up for whatever reason. People that blame "no-lifers" as flaws to the game are NOT looking for a sandbox multiplayer game. It is basic logic that if you commit more time than someone else to anything, you will most likely be better than that person at what you are doing. Go on garry, this is one of the features (or the foundation of it) that will define rust as a true survival multiplayer sandbox game.

People need to also remember the game will go through many different changes and there won't be full kevlar groups loaded with M4's anymore. Look at the single-shot shotgun for example. That will be huge.

really cool that you put it on all the servers with out saying anything

[QUOTE=Cik;42584809]True in theory. And not that I personally disagree with the [B]Sleeper [/B]business/gaming model for Rust. However, based on years of multiplayer gaming reality business models, [B]permadeath[/B], which is basically what your toying with with [B]Sleeper [/B]mode as it relates to the eventual loss of all tangible in-game items over-night that a player has accrued, will only appeal to a minute fraction of 24-7 basement dweller players; it's just the way it is. Now, have servers that are like that, which are considered hardcore, and servers that don't enable that feature and you've a playable game that appeals to the core audience of survival apocalyptic gaming enthusiasts and the very transient hardcore gamers. But that's me. . .I dont think anyone should think that Rust will only have Sleeper enabled, and that goes with the eventual private servers as well.[/QUOTE] Look who is whining about the best update in my life, DES the infamous combat loggers who sell their C4 now can't stash it safely!

[QUOTE=jackool;42585615]Maybe once anyone can host Rust servers of their own, [B]have an option to turn sleepers mode on or off[/B]? Then people can choose whether they want to join a server with it or not.[/QUOTE] That would be the smart thing to do, and nothing more than throwing a switch. Though I prefer sleeper, I haven't realized any reason why one type is "better" than the other, other than gross subjective generalizations of "taste". There are consumer tastes that will "hinge" on playing with one preference vs the other, or not playing at all, for that matter.

Well, i didnt like the change, i can live with all exploits and hackers now, but im a worker, im not a no life dude, that can play this game 24/7... So this is the bad idea ever, maybe 5 min sleeper, as someone said. And i lost everything, without any notice that US East was a sleeper server... really cool. Just wipe everything and start the experiment.

I love people that disagree but don't really state why. I guess it's because they just don't want a survival game.

It's a brilliant idea, I wish more games would do stuff like this.

Sandbox is what i want, but too much hardcore sandbox features can kill the game. Ok, its a experiment, but i dont think this is the better moment to make this experiment. Surival sandbox game, nice, a lot of potential in Rust, but the experiment would be different with more types of defence or maybe with a full server wipe again. Now there is a lot clans with thousands of C4. So, i dont like the full concept idea at this moment, and this is the wrong time to test this. There are much more important things to do or test right now in my opinion.

[QUOTE=garry;42584948]I am hearing feedback, I haven't heard a reason why we shouldn't do it. It's an alpha, it's in development. This is an idea we have had for a while and it solves a lot of problems. Breaking balance isn't an issue right now - and that's what most of the complaints are about. Rust is already horribly unbalanced towards raiders. We need to address that by adding more defensive tools. We know this. But that shouldn't prevent the game pushing in other directions too.[/QUOTE] But will good defenses matter, if you get raided when you're logged off anyways? Personally, from now on, I see no point in raiding when people are logged on. I'd wait for people to go to bed, and safely grab all their stuff without them even knowing.

Putting it on every server won't kill the game but it will drive a lot of players away and give a lot of negativity early which WILL hurt the games movement forwards. Adding new servers with the sleeper addition to them instead of screwing with people already on the server would be good though. (So people who do support the decision can still enjoy the experience)

[QUOTE=AQ.Frontal;42587023]I love people that disagree but don't really state why.[/QUOTE] What about those that agree and dont state why ? But as i said in other posts, i do like the idea, i just dont think now with all the hacks/hackers out there is the best time to put it in the game. [editline]20th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=intoxsosclan;42587244]Adding new servers with the sleeper addition to them instead of screwing with people already on the server would be good though. (So people who do support the decision can still enjoy the experience)[/QUOTE] i agree with you, i mainly play on the PvE server since you have more peace to find bugs there then on the PvP server, and i almost always log out outside my house cause of all the griefers on PvE, so if i get raided and griefed i can still play on and wont get locked inside my house

There are several posts already explaining why we disagree. With the current state of base defense being mainly 'security through obfuscation', i.e., house full of mazes and metal doors, with no passive defense capabilities, this sleeper mechanism mainly benefits those who come to the game with a large group already and/or those who have no real world obligations that lets them play 24-7. These groups ALREADY have huge advantages in Rust and this mechanism just gives them even more advantage.

OP doesn't quite understand the purpose of this game. The purpose of the game is survival. This isn't call of duty or an typical MMO. It's perma-death. The way I see it, the sleeper system will reduce raiding to an extent, because you're going to have to concentrate on building a viable shelter before you even think about raiding. I've seen numerous people put up a wooden shack, craft a gun, then go kill all of their neighbors. Then log out with all of the loot he collected with no consequence. With the sleeper system, his door gets chopped down and he's back to square one... but if he would have co-habituated and built a decent defense, not only does he now have other people around him that may come to his aid, he also has more than a wooden shack. So, even if his door is busted and his stuff is stolen, he has 600 wood worth of building up. That's not square one. Even with the sleeper system. The normal state of the game encourages people to do shit like make a 2x1 metal shack out by the air drop zone and control it without worry. They don't need to work toward anything, they have guns falling from the sky and simply go on random shooting rampages for no real reason other than ruining fun. It's a step in the right direction. The cherry on top would be a key system for doors so you can make more complex fortress while still having the ability for allies to enter and exit using a single door. Having to put up 3 doors everywhere really limits the defensive possibilities for a group of friends.

[QUOTE=Jezzirok;42587497]The way I see it, the sleeper system will reduce raiding to an extent, because you're going to have to concentrate on building a viable shelter before you even think about raiding. I've seen numerous people put up a wooden shack, craft a gun, then go kill all of their neighbors. Then log out with all of the loot he collected with no consequence.[/QUOTE] Just join a big clan that got members online more or less 24/7 and nothing realy changes, you would raid the same cause u always have ppl at base defending what ever loot you would be getting, only change for them would be maybe make a bed room for logging out in.

[QUOTE=Dioden;42587575]Just join a big clan that got members online more or less 24/7 and nothing realy changes, you would raid the same cause u always have ppl at base defending what ever loot you would be getting, only change for them would be maybe make a bed room for logging out in.[/QUOTE] So, let me get this straight... Like every other persistent online game known to man you become more successful if you play with others? Holy shit! You just blew my mind!

Just build a bunch of different directions in your house, with metal doors blocking the way. If you throw enough in there, it'll dramatically lower the chances of anybody getting to you and your stuff. I play solo and manage this just fine. If your house gets raided, it's kind of unfair to the people who grind out the explosives to get zilch because you decided to log out and save your goodies.

Nothing wrong with sleeper idea. The major issue is that hackers/cheaters are not actively being banned. We need mods/gm's actively in game spectating people to remove them permanently from the game...and if they rebuy the game it gives Garry more money.

[QUOTE=jackool;42585615]Maybe once anyone can host Rust servers of their own, [B]have an option to turn sleepers mode on or off[/B]? Then people can choose whether they want to join a server with it or not.[/QUOTE] Honestly, with a feature like this, I feel that it'll either always be used or never be used.

[QUOTE=Cik;42584546]Sleepers will not be the main feature server-type. . .EVER. That isn't garry's intent.[/QUOTE] seems like you where wrong evry server i join is now sleeper.

[QUOTE]What if there was a system to where when you log out your items were to be dropped on the ground? Or maybe the items in your hot bar are the only items you can keep. Along with this you can keep this "ghost" idea where the character stays behind for another 60 seconds after the person disconnects. [/QUOTE] This would fit as a better solution for players taking all there stuff with them while logging off.

[QUOTE=amichael428;42588614]seems like you where wrong evry server i join is now sleeper.[/QUOTE] lol..it was tongue-in-cheek, but sorry it didn't come across that way. Personally, I prefer sleeper.

Here is the problem other than people who are already in huge groups. Basically new players are fucked. And they will not want to play the game after getting their shacks, small house, killed by animals, killed by players. They are going to just quit playing the game and say fuckit I want a refund. Not to mention the connection issues, error's etc. The developers are killing the game by adding it to all servers. If it stays this way, the game is dead. It will ruin itself for future sales. "Hey you ever played rust?" Yeah that game sucks, it's just a bunch of people who have everything in the game killing everyone. Welcome to rust, the less of a life you have, the more you are rewarded in-game.