The Elephant in the Game - Rust

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43947467]I am to please. I like the game and enjoy playing it. I like to critically think though, unlike some people. It is hard for me to understand Garry's plan and future, he can do as he pleases. He seems a nice guy, who is intent on making a good game. I guess that is what is weird to me, for this big a response which was obviously a surprise to him, I expected a response from the development side. He made it clear it was a shock to have this big a player base. He just hasn't made it clear what he was going to do to speed up content updates, if anything. If he has I have missed it. Making excuses or claiming Alpha and whining all over the place, just shows your sheephood, and I will promptly ignore you. I am asking what I believe is a valid question. This game rocks (pun intended). I am just wondering when the development speed is going to match the games popularity, or at least make a stride to keep up. If it isn't I fear for the games lack of interest leading to a decrease in growth of the game. If some of you can't pull your head out of the rear end of the developers for two seconds to critically think, that isn't my problem.[/QUOTE] How egocentric are you, exactly? Must be nice living in that little deluded world of yours where everyone revolves around you and only you can see the truth.

[QUOTE=kirbies;43948485]Money =/= Finished Game. Look at BF4[/QUOTE] better yet, look at Too human. It costs $US60 million plus, but its a very... generic game.

Please provide the name of one company that has ever gone out and increased staff size based off preorders. Because of the way Rust purchase is setup they are unlikely to have huge numbers upon release, because most people will already have it. This means that if they were to go out and hire a ton more staff they would take less profits and have less money towards server infrastructure and future development. TLDR: It's called smart business, increased staffing in software development suffers from diminishing returns.

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43947330]10% finished game 100% full wallet on Garry no change in development speed. And all of you little kiddies eat up the 10% and alpha talk. Am I the only person who thinks millions of dollars should speed up production? Or are you all sheeple?[/QUOTE] I am unaware of anything regarding this guy trolling about this topic, but I agree with him. Development resources should have gone up, or be going up, in response to selling over a million copies.

[QUOTE=TexRob;43948633]I am unaware of anything regarding this guy trolling about this topic, but I agree with him. Development resources should have gone up, or be going up, in response to selling over a million copies.[/QUOTE] So what you are suggesting is that just because Rust has been selling well, that their small studio should overextend themselves which typically results in a rushed final product instead of taking their time and tackling the important issues? Do not make the mistake of thinking that developers have to cater to their fan-base. Garry and his fellow developers have proven themselves in the past to know what they are doing, and I am fully willing to see them work at the pace they are comfortable with to keep them motivated in the long-run.

-snip- You don't even know what this said. Go away rating spamming trolls.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;43948676]So what you are suggesting is that just because Rust has been selling well, that their small studio should overextend themselves which typically results in a rushed final product instead of taking their time and tackling the important issues? Do not make the mistake of thinking that developers have to cater to their fan-base. Garry and his fellow developers have proven themselves in the past to know what they are doing, and I am fully willing to see them work at the pace they are comfortable with to keep them motivated in the long-run.[/QUOTE] It's not as simple as you put it. The extreme popularity has created a new need that was not there before, dealing with hacks, infrastructure, and project management of all those tasks. I feel Garry probably is spending a ton of time putting out fires, and not able to develop the game. There are server and hosting issues that he thought he wouldn't need to address for ages, if ever. Then there are the hacks, that really need a team focused on just that topic. Everyone here keeps comparing this to preorders. Selling a million copies is not comparable to a million preorders. The game is done at that point. If you think a company showcased their game as a small team at E3, to come out in 2 years, and then it was the hit of the show, that they wouldn't consider throwing more resources at it, if needed, they wouldn't, you're crazy. Buying an alpha game is buying a game you want to be a part of the process of bug fixing, testing, and sharing feedback on the game. This shouldn't be looked at as just some game you bought that happens to not be done yet, that's not how Early Access works.

I was reading the science section on reddit the other day and there was a study done that proved that adding more people to a project did not necessarily speed the time it took to complete it. [QUOTE=nuMbx;43947330]10% finished game 100% full wallet on Garry no change in development speed. And all of you little kiddies eat up the 10% and alpha talk. Am I the only person who thinks millions of dollars should speed up production? Or are you all sheeple?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43947354]Oh christ, when will you stop shitposting about this? The game is in alpha. If you can't deal with that, go play another game for a few months. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The game is not being developed according to your schedule, and you can stop being entitled about it any decade now.[/QUOTE] A Few months ? Been hearing your type preech "in a few months" for 6 months now. Forever tomorrow my friends. This game will always be Finished Soon™

Why are you all feeding the Troll?

[QUOTE=L33LEE;43948917]A Few months ? Been hearing your type preech "in a few months" for 6 months now. Forever tomorrow my friends. This game will always be Finished Soon™[/QUOTE] No one is suggesting it will be finished in "a few months" - that is idiotic. From alpha to release is a *long time* The idea of coming back "in a few months" is that there will have been more visible, interesting changes in that time, rather than expecting to be blown away by progress with every new patch.

I am not trolling. I firmly believe many of you are just not thinking coherently. I understand that hiring someone "bad" can be "bad". That argument is "bad", how about you don't hire someone "bad". It is also "bad" to not hire anybody. Very bad logic guys... Why does anybody get hired anywhere? Demand. There is a higher demand for output. This is very basic logic people. I am simply stating that the demand has went up. 5 people to work on a game for 500 people is fine. 5 people to work on a game for a million people is not. Why? Because the funding went up, this isn't rocket science. I tell you this. If Garry responded and said, "numb is right, I am hiring 500 people". You little fan boys would tuck tail and eat it up. You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep. The critical, honest, and logical thinker puts 2 + 2 together. When a guy gets millions of dollars on a game that is in production and a million people are playing it... YOU USE THE MONEY ON THE GAME. I am not saying he isn't. I am not saying he won't. I am asking the question: Why not hire more people to work on the game? All of your answers are on the level of a 5 yr old. If this is not as good as it gets for you guys showcasing your thinking skills, I fear for your future.

Doesn't really matter at what level you believe you critical thinking to be, ad hominem attacks will always overwhelm the assertion. TLDR; name calling makes you sound like a little kid.

[QUOTE=TexRob;43948865]It's not as simple as you put it. The extreme popularity has created a new need that was not there before, dealing with hacks, infrastructure, and project management of all those tasks. I feel Garry probably is spending a ton of time putting out fires, and not able to develop the game. There are server and hosting issues that he thought he wouldn't need to address for ages, if ever. Then there are the hacks, that really need a team focused on just that topic. Everyone here keeps comparing this to preorders. Selling a million copies is not comparable to a million preorders. The game is done at that point. If you think a company showcased their game as a small team at E3, to come out in 2 years, and then it was the hit of the show, that they wouldn't consider throwing more resources at it, if needed, they wouldn't, you're crazy. Buying an alpha game is buying a game you want to be a part of the process of bug fixing, testing, and sharing feedback on the game. This shouldn't be looked at as just some game you bought that happens to not be done yet, that's not how Early Access works.[/QUOTE] I actually agree with most of what you say. I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I didn't purchase an "alpha game" and am now angry at the "alpha state" of the game. I think that since the "alpha game" is now a best seller, the "alpha game" should increase in the rate of production. Isn't that the entire reason for releasing the "alpha game" earlier? So that production would increase and be more fruitful? To allow the community to assist in production? Well, the community has assisted in production by giving Garry millions of dollars. Those dollars should be used in part for his pleasure and enjoyment. They should also go into production of the game for those assisting in the development. The argument that we should be content with the "alpha game" as it is, goes against the very reason it was released to the community in the first place! How ignorant! On the contrary, the millions that he now has should serve as ammunition for production. When it is not being shown to be the case, I simply ask, why not? [editline]17th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=warhoop;43949029]Doesn't really matter at what level you believe you critical thinking to be, ad hominem attacks will always overwhelm the assertion. TLDR; name calling makes you sound like a little kid.[/QUOTE] So basically, I point out how idiotic the thinking is of others, and you pointout how idiotic my thinking process of interpreting the thinking process of others is. You basically have nothing to add, but to try to deconstruct my argument. I have stated why others arguments are invalid. Your reply is equivalent to worthless. You are a troll.

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949026]I understand that hiring someone "bad" can be "bad". That argument is "bad", how about you don't hire someone "bad". It is also "bad" to not hire anybody. Very bad logic guys... [/QUOTE] Are you psychic? Can you really tell how well someone is going to do by reading their resume and having them perform some menial task to demonstrate ability? You can't very well test them on the work you're doing because they're not familiar with it. You want they should go through the process of hiring half a dozen bozos with great, worthless resumes and degrees, wasting time and money training them before they find a guy with a clue? Devs are less than a dime a dozen. Good devs are virtually impossible to find. How much money do you think they made, anyway? $15-$20 million isn't squat. [QUOTE=nuMbx;43949026] I tell you this. If Garry responded and said, "numb is right, I am hiring 500 people". You little fan boys would tuck tail and eat it up. You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep. [/QUOTE] No, we'd tell Garry to get off the crack pipe and refrain from development or executive decisions until he was clean.

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949026]I am not trolling. [B]I firmly believe many of you are just not thinking coherently.[/B] I understand that hiring someone "bad" can be "bad". That argument is "bad", how about you don't hire someone "bad". It is also "bad" to not hire anybody. [B]Very bad logic guys...[/B] Why does anybody get hired anywhere? Demand. There is a higher demand for output. This is very basic logic people. I am simply stating that the demand has went up. 5 people to work on a game for 500 people is fine. 5 people to work on a game for a million people is not. Why? Because the funding went up, this isn't rocket science. I tell you this. If Garry responded and said, "numb is right, I am hiring 500 people".[B] You little fan boys would tuck tail and eat it up. You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep. [/B] [B]The critical, honest, and logical thinker puts 2 + 2 together[/B]. When a guy gets millions of dollars on a game that is in production and a million people are playing it... YOU USE THE MONEY ON THE GAME. I am not saying he isn't. I am not saying he won't. I am asking the question: Why not hire more people to work on the game? [B]All of your answers are on the level of a 5 yr old. If this is not as good as it gets for you guys showcasing your thinking skills, I fear for your future.[/B][/QUOTE] Oh my god lol you are so into yourself Please seek professional help and grow the fuck up before continuing any furthing. You aren't even here for the sake of arguing, you're here to argue for the sake of your own ego. I legitimately fear for your future, the way you act you're going to piss someone off and it's not going to be a good day. I love how you only reply to certain posts, totally ignoring everyone elses too. Great job.

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949078] So basically, I point out how idiotic the thinking is of others, and you pointout how idiotic my thinking process of interpreting the thinking process of others is. You basically have nothing to add, but to try to deconstruct my argument. I have stated why others arguments are invalid. Your reply is equivalent to worthless. You are a troll.[/QUOTE] You have not actually rebutted anybodies counter argument, in fact a number of posters have give solid counters that you summarily dismiss. And the point of my last post was perfectly illustrated by your response.

Did someone just say that 15-20 million dollars is nothing? It is a very good thing typing doesn't have the same requirements as speech. Because Garry would have to take his penis out of your mouths for a couple of seconds to contribute your thoughts.

first i also thought that its a scam-game, but they did so much already, i really believe now, they want to make an awesome game, even if it takes them 2-3 years. they fixed duping they fixed noclip they handled the permanent ddos attacks around xmas. that alone shows me, that there are still people working on this game. and even if NOT and they are sammiong us.it's still the best 17€ investment in along time. ~600 hours fun and still going..

[QUOTE=J!NX;43949158]Oh my god lol you are so into yourself Please seek professional help and grow the fuck up before continuing any furthing. You aren't even here for the sake of arguing, you're here to argue for the sake of your own ego. I legitimately fear for your future, the way you act you're going to piss someone off and it's not going to be a good day. I love how you only reply to certain posts, totally ignoring everyone elses too. Great job.[/QUOTE] I am referencing you now, so you can pat yourself on the back. How exactly am I here for my ego, when I am making the case for Garry to hire people that are not me, so that all of us can benefit? I would argue that the mass of fan boys are attacking me for making what I feel is a very valid argument that the production of the game should increase since the developer is now a millionaire. You can argue against that, if you want to show yourself stupid, go right ahead.

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949078]I actually agree with most of what you say. I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I didn't purchase an "alpha game" and am now angry at the "alpha state" of the game. I think that since the "alpha game" is now a best seller, the "alpha game" should increase in the rate of production. Isn't that the entire reason for releasing the "alpha game" earlier? So that production would increase and be more fruitful? To allow the community to assist in production? Well, the community has assisted in production by giving Garry millions of dollars. Those dollars should be used in part for his pleasure and enjoyment. They should also go into production of the game for those assisting in the development. The argument that we should be content with the "alpha game" as it is, goes against the very reason it was released to the community in the first place! How ignorant! On the contrary, the millions that he now has should serve as ammunition for production. When it is not being shown to be the case, I simply ask, why not? [editline]17th February 2014[/editline] So basically, I point out how idiotic the thinking is of others, and you pointout how idiotic my thinking process of interpreting the thinking process of others is. You basically have nothing to add, but to try to deconstruct my argument. I have stated why others arguments are invalid. Your reply is equivalent to worthless. You are a troll.[/QUOTE] I'm so confused, I agreed with the OP and he responded to my response to another post, as if I was responding to him. I still agree with OP for the most part, but concede he might be crazy.

[QUOTE=GimmeChicken;43949198]first i also thought that its a scam-game, but they did so much already, i really believe now, they want to make an awesome game, even if it takes them 2-3 years. they fixed duping they fixed noclip they handled the permanent ddos attacks around xmas. that alone shows me, that there are still people working on this game. and even if NOT and they are sammiong us.it's still the best 17€ investment in along time. ~600 hours fun and still going..[/QUOTE] I agree with you. What does that have to do with doing more? They fixed some things, hooray. Fixing errors and providing larger updates is two different things. It seems some of you can't think past the basic, I am probably done discussing this subject. It has been pretty fruitless. Most of you cannot get off the bandwagon long enough to see there is a flat tire.

Hah. In a sense, it should speed up development and not. As a software developer myself I can safely say that weekly or at least every other week update is a very fast development speed. It isn't a weekend website project, and it is not a SMALL one. I have but a vague clue at hand what methodologies and process are in play while developing this game but it would be something like: develop (coding, animation, art style, sound) then quality assurance, inside bugfixes after quality assurance phase, 40% of time coding tests to bullet proof code in the future development (Oh I hope Garry your team is Test Driven fiends :P )... It is a real clusterf!@# honestly and it gets even worse when everyone is throwing idea "please add this or that" and then there is critical cheating/hacking problems etc. In terms of game, try realizing how much effort is going into decision making alone when it comes to new content or new mechanics - best example would be a complex board game rule-set. Try making a rule-set for a game like RUST with no flaws and constantly try adding new things while balancing everything out - sure being in a team of 10 might make things faster but not instantaneous and a bad decision may lead to catastrophic game breaking (or worse crappy code which is even worse) which would end up as hundred rant posts on this very same forum (considering how many decisions are already being thrown at developers of this game). Honestly lookup how much money did newest GTA game consumed to become what it is and how many years it took to craft that beast. So with all love in the world - I hope you can at least SUPER remotely imagine how much of a shit filled wagon Face Punch studios are pulling here... because I barely do :) - Face Punch actually could lay some of their daily work, I would be interested... Anyway this is my honest to god opinion. P.S. This post is not in defense of Face Punch studios :D - YEA WORK WORK...

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949189]Did someone just say that 15-20 million dollars is nothing?[/QUOTE] Yep, I did. We've done somewhere in the range of like $10-$20 million worth of work for clients here over the last few years. I am not rich, my boss is not rich, the owner is not rich. Our staff is no bigger than the staff at FP. There are such things as "overhead" and "operating expenses" in the business world.

[QUOTE=TexRob;43949228]I'm so confused, I agreed with the OP and he responded to my response to another post, as if I was responding to him. I still agree with OP for the most part, but concede he might be crazy.[/QUOTE] "This shouldn't be looked at as just some game you bought that happens to not be done yet, that's not how Early Access works." I can't gauge the tone of typing. I am sorry. I said I agreed with you and it was obvious we weren't far apart. I just have a hard time understanding via "font" the tone of of the way things are said. Since I am being flamed, attacked, and overall put down from every direction I would assume you can understand the defensive nature of my reply?

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949225]I am referencing you now, [B]so you can pat yourself on the back. [/B] How exactly am I here for my ego, when I am making the case for Garry to hire people that are not me, so that all of us can benefit? [B]I would argue that the mass of fan boys are attacking me for making what I feel is a very valid argument that the production of the game should increase since the developer is now a millionaire. You can argue against that, if you want to show yourself stupid, go right ahead.[/B][/QUOTE] "You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep. I am a logical, critical thinker and everyone that isn't me is stupid. if you disagree with me, you're just a rod riding douche fanboy, because I'm right. you don't understand social interaction. I firmly believe many of you are just not thinking coherently. Don't confuse being correct with arrogant, I'm just better than you all" -nuMbx Most of that is literally a copy and paste of sentences from shit you say.

[QUOTE=NeatHedgehog;43949312]Yep, I did. We've done somewhere in the range of like $10-$20 million worth of work for clients here over the last few years. I am not rich, my boss is not rich, the owner is not rich. Our staff is no bigger than the staff at FP. There are such things as "overhead" and "operating expenses" in the business world.[/QUOTE] Who is we? You say "we've" as if you are the basis for understanding the value of money now. Who exactly is the "we've" if it is 5 people or less, you may be right in your own eyes. I would be willing to bet that there is a lot of small time designers and tech's that would be hired on for a year for 100k. You could get 10 of those and have only spend 1/15th of the money they have brought in. What is the problem exactly? [editline]17th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;43949316]"You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep. I am a logical, critical thinker and everyone that isn't me is stupid. if you disagree with me, you're just a rod riding douche fanboy, because I'm right. you don't understand social interaction. I firmly believe many of you are just not thinking coherently. Don't confuse being correct with arrogant, I'm just better than you all" -nuMbx Most of that is literally a copy and paste of sentences from shit you say.[/QUOTE] No. Most of that is literally the way you seeing what I write. Because when someone disagrees with you or shows how you are incorrect, you flip out and demonize them. Pots calling kettles black pal.

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949334]Who is we? You say "we've" as if you are the basis for understanding the value of money now. Who exactly is the "we've" if it is 5 people or less, you may be right in your own eyes. I would be willing to bet that there is a lot of small time designers and tech's that would be hired on for a year for 100k. You could get 10 of those and have only spend 1/15th of the money they have brought in. What is the problem exactly? [editline]17th February 2014[/editline] No. Most of that is literally the way you seeing what I right. Because when someone disagrees with you or shows how you are incorrect, you flip out and demonize them. Pots calling kettles black pal.[/QUOTE] I'm not shitting you I literally just copied and paste that from this thread and the last. You said like, 95% of that. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uap5DprA_c"]The real elephant here is you.[/URL]

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949267]I agree with you. What does that have to do with doing more? They fixed some things, hooray. Fixing errors and providing larger updates is two different things. It seems some of you can't think past the basic, I am probably done discussing this subject. It has been pretty fruitless. Most of you cannot get off the bandwagon long enough to see there is a flat tire.[/QUOTE] i got your point to use the earned money and invest it into more power. maybe they are doing that, we cant know. rentin new offices/people etc.. but i think its fine at the moment nearly every week some update/fixes. only thing i agree with you is, that in the near future there MUST be a bigger Update. like getting rid of all the placeholders, new map etc.. but they have some time, be a bit patient :rolleye:

[QUOTE=nuMbx;43949313]"This shouldn't be looked at as just some game you bought that happens to not be done yet, that's not how Early Access works." I can't gauge the tone of typing. I am sorry. I said I agreed with you and it was obvious we weren't far apart. I just have a hard time understanding via "font" the tone of of the way things are said. Since I am being flamed, attacked, and overall put down from every direction I would assume you can understand the defensive nature of my reply?[/QUOTE] I'm sure you're enjoying games like (Ex) WarZ, Nether and Day One: Garry's Incident. But feel free to flame about a well made game.