[QUOTE=NillaWafers;47014959]Not sure why there's all this hostility towards the idea of a filter.
so much animosity for a simple solution for a nice majority of players.[/QUOTE]
Nobody's being hostile. There's a simple solution that's already 100% effective: find another server. If you consider someone pointing out an easier way to be "hostile", then nobody here can help you. Good luck, I guess.
Rule #1 of Internet arguing: when someone points out that your complex solution to a problem isn't as good as the simple solution you choose to ignore, accuse them of being hostile.
The problem with trying to prevent abusive admins like is that all information about what commands happen on a server comes from the server itself. There's nothing stopping admins or hosts from using modified server software that says "hey, we aren't using the give command" at all times, even if they're literally using it at every possible point of time that they can.
There are wildly different views on what constitutes admin abuse and shit. My population averages about 30 - 40 players. My mods (and me) will give out some free apples and always have a crate of apples out the front of admin base. Thats the only thing we as admins will hand out. I even have "FreeApples" in my hostname. We also go door to door as Apples salesmen. Its a bit of a laugh, a bit of a help for new players and promotes admin/player interaction.
Why? because I have rules. Me or my admins don't partake in the usual gameplay, we don't raid, go on looting runs or get into gunfights or spawn shit in for people so it gives us something to do in game when everyone is behaving themselves, that isn't in itself unbalancing or game breaking. All that is in the rules.
All of my regulars like this admin style and it is definately helping us maintain a healthy population with new people joining every day.
Cut to yesterday and we had one guy calling us out for cheating and admin abuse for the following reasons:
[B]"Spawning in apples because it is unfair"
"Calling Airdrops for ourselves"
"Building a base"[/B]
Dead set - this kid accuses admin abuse because I let my mods build a house and call in random drops. The rest of the players pretty much laughed him off the server.
Let me reiterate that according to this kid, calling in an Airdrop constitutes admin abuse.
So, yeah. Many admins aren't out on power trips and are looking to create a fun environment for people to play in, but at the end of the day there will be one or two that wont see it that way (usually the ones that never bother to read the rules), hence the argument stands that if you land in a server where the admin is really being an ass hat, obviously abusing the rank or immature or on a power trip, move on till you find a server where you agree with the rules and like the admins play style. Not every admin is a twelvie on a power trip. Some of us actualy want our players to have a great deal of fun when in server.
Another tip? Talk to the admin and ask what they do as admins, what the rules are, what you wont do as admin etc. In over a year of admining I have had a total of 3 players join and ask a few questions about how the server is run. 2 like the sound of it and stayed, one thanked me and decided to move on because I didn't run instacraft and a few other requirements weren't met.
It will avoid you putting in long hours and getting a shock when something happens that you dont like and you will be well aware of how the server is run. Will also let you find out early whether you like the admin or not!
was this in "rustopia" by any chance? the admins in there tried to pull that shit with me but i responded by waiting for them to log off, finding their homes and locking them in jigsaw killer like contraptions after i eviscerated their home steads lol
I remember tracking down a fly hacker a while ago in experimental. As I reached him, I began to verbally abuse him (I later regretted doing this), he finally said the reason he hacked was all the abusive admins. I didnt accept that excuse, but none the less it was his validation to cheat.
Wait a minute here. I have my own server. Where I am obviously the admin. It's a vanilla unmodded server. Am I missing something or am I just dumb? I have pretty much zero power. I can kick and ban people and call in airdrops. Have I missed this mentioned power I have to give myself and other people stuff?
If my assumptions aren't incorrect my advice is to just play on a vanilla server. Or are you talking about Legacy?
[B][QUOTE][/B]Wait a minute here. I have my own server. Where I am obviously the admin. It's a vanilla unmodded server. Am I missing something or am I just dumb? I have pretty much zero power. I can kick and ban people and call in airdrops. Have I missed this mentioned power I have to give myself and other people stuff?
If my assumptions aren't incorrect my advice is to just play on a vanilla server. Or are you talking about Legacy?[B][/QUOTE]
F1 Console | Item List[/B] - Spawn anything you like (Provided you or your mods are in users.cfg as ownerid/moderatorid), or alternately using inventory.give "Item name" "Amount" in the console.
Or Event.run to call in drops, spectate to spectate players etc. thats about the extent of it for the new version so far..
Edit - Cleaned up post, added quote
[QUOTE=NexusOne;47017174][B]
F1 Console | Item List[/B] - Spawn anything you like (Provided you or your mods are in users.cfg as ownerid/moderatorid), or alternately using inventory.give "Item name" "Amount" in the console.
Or Event.run to call in drops, spectate to spectate players etc. thats about the extent of it for the new version so far..
Edit - Cleaned up post, added quote[/QUOTE]
POWER!!!!!
Thanks. You've corrupted me. I will let any players on my server know who taught me this in any case of abuse.
If 80% of the servers you join supposedly have abusive admins, then I'm just going to take a guess that you're running around being griefers and the admins are just doing their job removing the asshats. I wouldn't call that admin abuse, I would call it taking out the trash.
well, animosity may be the wrong word to use, but I see an overwhelming support for nothing to be done, and a lot of - " move to another server "
what can't we understand about a server filter option that negates me from having to move to another server? is that so bad? to pick and choose and whim.
but the simple solution according to our logic here so far : move to another server - wasted hours, talk to admins who can claim whatever they want. Whether its apples or pears. Most servers have no motd, or any rules stated anywhere to be found, other than - talk to that guy?
How about - I click a button and never go to your server because it won't show in my list ;-)
thus, we don't have to talk. nor do I Have to waste time.
Filters, how so many games have them. how about ours?
[URL="http://steamcommunity.com/id/WutHappon/screenshot/546394648430512196"]http://steamcommunity.com/id/WutHappon/screenshot/546394648430512196[/URL]
[QUOTE]but the simple solution according to our logic here so far : move to another server - wasted hours, talk to admins who can claim whatever they want. Whether its apples or pears. Most servers have no motd, or any rules stated anywhere to be found, other than - talk to that guy? [/QUOTE]
Modded servers aside, until such time as motd type features makes its way into the game, this is what we are stuck with unfortunately. How are you supposed to find out what the server is like if you dont talk to the admin/other players? Even if there was an MOTD admins could still 'claim' whatever they like (to use your words)
UI wise? its a work in progress. Buggered if I know whether the UI Garry is currently working on as we speak will have filters (or whether it will in future).
nothing wrong with the idea of filters, will probably be implemented on it's own in time. the problem is that there is no filter that says "asshole admins"; that one you just have to figure out. a voting system wouldn't be a bad idea, but certainly prone to abuse by twelvies who can't play and think anyone who kills them is a hacker.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47014780]
Because it's their server and nobody cares what they do with it. You can always play somewhere else. On alpha, there's no permanence anyway, so servers don't have much longevity to their maps unless the admin holds back updates and requires you to turn off Rust's updates in Steam to stay on the same version as the server. (And then you can't play on other servers that are updating regularly.)
When the game is further along, servers will actually be able to develop durable communities, and the servers where admin cheat with their powers will quickly develop a reputation and be largely empty except for random joins, while trustworthy servers will be at the top of Rust community server lists.[/QUOTE]
I agree, for now it makes no sense to have icons because of servers not having much longevity so it's definitely not a priority now at all.. and really, I couldn't care less about what admins do right now.
Not sure about the part where you say admins that cheat using their power will quickly develop a reputation... I feel like there's a lot of players that care about admin abuse because they wanna play in a more competitive and fair environment while there's also a lot of players that don't give a crap about this and just wanna build bases and have entertaining events and stuff going on.
I still haven't seen someone point out something that's BAD about using icons to show what the admin/moderators can do or can't do, I personally like filters and the transparency/honesty on admin powers it brings.
Don't get me wrong, server owners can do whatever the fuck they want and players don't get the right to complain/make demands as they are given a free pass into something someone else is paying for. However I still think it would be nice if the game gave us a way of selecting/filtering and saving time/effort for the players passing through all the "bad servers" before finally finding one they like, I don't see the harm in that.
[editline]27th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=mrknifey;47018324]nothing wrong with the idea of filters, will probably be implemented on it's own in time. the problem is that there is no filter that says "asshole admins"; that one you just have to figure out. a voting system wouldn't be a bad idea, but certainly prone to abuse by twelvies who can't play and think anyone who kills them is a hacker.[/QUOTE]
I'm not thinking about an asshole filter. Just filters that show admin powers, people can decide for themselves which ones they want their admins to have and which ones they don't. Some people think spawning in items is being an abusive dick and some people couldn't care less.
Admin abuse in community servers may be an issue. But in modded server? Please don't complain or at least try to start up your own server to know what it is like to be an admin.
Admins have far more stress than players feel about abuses when they have to deal with mod-updates, plugin updates. Admins work harder to keep up population too.
Admin's worst enemy are players who log on and less than 30 minutes they seek for admins help or attempt to contact an admin. aka "Hey admin...who is the admin...help me admin I am stuck"
Admins abuse cheats to establish balances for newcomers to settle for server growth and players always try to manipulate and seek benefit off of it.
So it is really the players themselves ruining their own game
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47014819]So you and these other players stuck around and kept going back to a server with abusive admins? Sorry, but you're the problem here. Stop patronizing servers with abusive admins, and those servers will go away. Simple as that.
Again, I said that we did not go back, we only played on the server for about 3 hours that day, and it was the 2nd server in a row where we played for a few hours and left due to abuse. It's pretty disheartening to join 3 or 4 servers in a day just to leave in a few hours after getting set up due to admin abuse.
There are something like 600+ vanilla community servers out there as of last night, not counting the modded servers. Are you honestly trying to say that 480 of them have abusive admins? That's ridiculous. More likely than not, you simply haven't looked around at many servers.
More likely than not, the majority of those servers can't handle a group of 10 people joining them due to only having a population of 0-10 players on average. We tend to only join servers with 20-30+ people so other people may have a chance against us at least.
You must be playing on a modded server. Experimental has no teleport, and neither branch has a "god mode". Legacy had invisible armor, but that's it.
What are you talking about? TP is a given admin command in vanilla as well, at least in Legacy. I'm not so sure about Experimental Rust, since I don't have a friend who has had first hand experience being an admin.
It all boils down to the fact that the admins only have as much power as you choose to give them. Don't like it? Find another server, and those admins have no power over you. On the other hand, if you choose to stay on the same server, then you're just feeding the trolls.
Again, it's difficult trying to find 3 or 4 servers a day, spending a few hours setting up and then having to leave. Not everyone greatly enjoys the first few hours on a server, especially when they have to do it over and over and over again.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
Since the dawn of Rust, this forum has been littered with "I HATE THIS SERVER / ADMIN, SOME1 FIX IT!!11" posts. Why people can't grasp the "find another server" solution is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
Easy. Because they spend hours attempting to find another server with decent population and there simply are none, or at least none after the first 3 or 4 that are tried in a row, which then after spending an entire day trying to find a server you get discouraged.
[editline]27th January 2015[/editline]
All in all, what this post is originally trying to say is obvious admin abuse needs to be regulated in some manner. The original post is not to debate what admin abuse is, as in our examples it's the extreme kind like constantly spawning in gear and camping someone's base for an hour or two on end. Or turning on god mode and killing players simply because they killed you. Those sort of things.
The way I see it, is simply letting people know that the admins are able to spawn in items will regulate it to an extent. Think of it this way, in Legacy Rust there was a way for the admin to message the entire server, with the text appearing right in the middle of the screen. Now, if every item the admin would spawn would appear in the same way, notifying all players of the spawn, wouldn't it be regulated? Or maybe even if it just appears in the chat box, it would have the same effect. Sure it wouldn't be perfect, an admin at 4am when no one is on can spawn a shit ton of items and leave them in a crate, but then they would at least not be able to spawn things on the fly, right?
Just my 2 cents on the idea though. And my previous comment reminds me of how little experience I have on forums, oh well too lazy to figure out how to clean it up right.
[QUOTE=Pilgrimm;47018948]Easy. Because they spend hours attempting to find another server with decent population and there simply are none, or at least none after the first 3 or 4 that are tried in a row, which then after spending an entire day trying to find a server you get discouraged.[/QUOTE]
it's fair to get discouraged. but if you are hungry, you don't complain that no-one has brought you food, you go and get some. same with a good server, you can't expect someone to make it a good server for you, you need to find one that works as it is. because the things that allow people to control and manage a server well are the same things that can be abused.
people hire servers for their own reasons. the ones who do it to play with other people will learn quickly enough to be fair in their treatment of their players or have an empty server to host. those who hire it to play in a sandbox with their own rules don't care if you come back. find the former and you will be fine.
There are plenty of reputable servers to play on. Maybe try asking around before joining a server, and when you find a good one, stick to it. I've been playing on the same 2 or 3 servers for the last 6 months, and have never had any problems...
[QUOTE=Thor-axe;47017332]If 80% of the servers you join supposedly have abusive admins, then I'm just going to take a guess that you're running around being griefers and the admins are just doing their job removing the asshats. I wouldn't call that admin abuse, I would call it taking out the trash.[/QUOTE]
I completely disagree, griefing is a big part of rust. If you could get banned just for "griefing", then probably over half the playerbase would be banned from 3/4 of the servers.
[QUOTE=withnail;47019386]I completely disagree, griefing is a big part of rust. If you could get banned just for "griefing", then probably over half the playerbase would be banned from 3/4 of the servers.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't make it a good thing. But that's for server admins to decide, whether or not they ban you for it.
I'm sure though that the devs will work on preventing griefing in the new Rust..
[QUOTE=withnail;47019386]I completely disagree, griefing is a big part of rust. If you could get banned just for "griefing", then probably over half the playerbase would be banned from 3/4 of the servers.[/QUOTE]
Either way, there is no such thing as griefing in new Rust. The tool cupboard completely removes griefing, the only way to get griefed is to get raided and have your base taken over. And then it's not griefing since it's no longer your base anyway.
[QUOTE=Pilgrimm;47021522]Either way, there is no such thing as griefing in new Rust. The tool cupboard completely removes griefing, the only way to get griefed is to get raided and have your base taken over. And then it's not griefing since it's no longer your base anyway.[/QUOTE]
As someone who has built a stone wall around someone else's cupboard perimeter, complete with my own cupboards, I completely disagree.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47021832]As someone who has built a stone wall around someone else's cupboard perimeter, complete with my own cupboards, I completely disagree.[/QUOTE]
And those people can just spend 5 minutes destroying your wall with a few hatchets, but even then your example is a pretty rare one lol.
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