[Suggestion] Firearms malfunctions - Rust

[QUOTE=AQ.Frontal;42680313]Add durability to weapons. Add a rust/degradation effect to stockpiles. Expiration times for food and drinks. There, fixed. Guns jamming doesn't help new players at all. If I fire at a naked with a rock/hatchet and my gun jams I'll just swap to my shotgun. If that jams, ill just switch to my bow. A noob, is a noob. He will die if a experienced survivor wants him dead. All RNG aka jamming will do is affect gun fights between 2 armed experienced groups and the most lucky group will win. In my book, again, that is the worst kind of way to decide how a gunfight ends. Skill/experience > luck[/QUOTE] Well, you kind of answered your own question, you can avoid the mechanic all together if you go with a bow, because a bow doesn't jam. This doesn't disprove the fact that the weapon jam/malfunction mechanic would be an excellent addition to the game. [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42680320]They should add a peek mechanic[/QUOTE] Peeking doesn't feel like it belongs in this kind of game, though that is just my opinion, if you are looking for a more combat-centered game, then absolutely it belongs. This is more a survival game than a combat game though.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;42680389]Peeking doesn't feel like it belongs in this kind of game, though that is just my opinion, if you are looking for a more combat-centered game, then absolutely it belongs. This is more a survival game than a combat game though.[/QUOTE] The game has a huge focus on pvp, i say the more skill-based the combat it the better. It should be as fair as possible since death is such a terrifying aspect of the game.

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42680425]The game has a huge focus on pvp, i say the more skill-based the combat it the better. It should be as fair as possible since death is such a terrifying aspect of the game.[/QUOTE] This is true, I would be for its implementation since I can't see any way that it could be exploited, I am just a little fixated on the usage of it in a survival-oriented game. I would say bring it up with the devs and get their opinion on it.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;42680437]This is true, I would be for its implementation since I can't see any way that it could be exploited, I am just a little fixated on the usage of it in a survival-oriented game. I would say bring it up with the devs and get their opinion on it.[/QUOTE] I definitely agree with you when you say the game is overall a survival game. But pvp happens so often that i feel anything to make it more in-depth is a welcome addition. It is survival of the fittest after all.

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42680489]I definitely agree with you when you say the game is overall a survival game. But pvp happens so often that i feel anything to make it more in-depth is a welcome addition. It is survival of the fittest after all.[/QUOTE] I suppose you are right, the game can always take the path of a hybrid genre focused on both survival and combat. It would be really cool to use the environment to your advantage, like guerrilla tactics. You could go prone in really tall grass and wait until someone stumbles along then blow them away before they know what hit them. Also assuming weather and seasons are implemented (it has seen some positive feedback in the forums in the threads I have visited on the topic,) you could do things like cover yourself with dead leaves to hide, dig into the snow and hide, or otherwise use seasonal events to your advantage.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;42680561]I suppose you are right, the game can always take the path of a hybrid genre focused on both survival and combat. It would be really cool to use the environment to your advantage, like guerrilla tactics. You could go prone in really tall grass and wait until someone stumbles along then blow them away before they know what hit them. Also assuming weather and seasons are implemented (it has seen some positive feedback in the forums in the threads I have visited on the topic,) you could do things like cover yourself with dead leaves to hide, dig into the snow and hide, or otherwise use seasonal events to your advantage.[/QUOTE] Every single thing you mentioned would be amazing. A peek mechanic and the ability to go prone would be a step in the right direction. Eventually leading to what you have described.

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42680616]Every single thing you mentioned would be amazing. A peek mechanic and the ability to go prone would be a step in the right direction. Eventually leading to what you have described.[/QUOTE] Climbing trees would be SO cool too, you could hide in the branches with a rifle and pick someone off when they are walking by. The game, I feel, has to take a turn where you have to ALWAYS be watching for an attack. A survival situation will always bring out the worst in a person, to the point where they will use a fellow man to ensure their own survival, I feel. You have to group up, but past that, trust no one.

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42680616]Every single thing you mentioned would be amazing. A peek mechanic and the ability to go prone would be a step in the right direction. Eventually leading to what you have described.[/QUOTE] That already exists, it's called DayZ. There fixed your problem. Seriously though, this is a survivor/builder game with PvP included. If you want survivor/PvP with some building included (eventually), then DayZ is your game, not Rust. The entire idea of this is to make you think about shooting before just shooting. If you want a weapon that doesn't have any malfunction risk, pick a bow (or slingshot or crossbow if they add one). The new guys right now, aren't the ones with weapons. They have hatchets, rocks, and bows. This would affect all the people that want to run around in kevlar and high quality weapons, acting like this is Mad Max and they are part of the chain gang.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;42680725]Climbing trees would be SO cool too, you could hide in the branches with a rifle and pick someone off when they are walking by. The game, I feel, has to take a turn where you have to ALWAYS be watching for an attack. A survival situation will always bring out the worst in a person, to the point where they will use a fellow man to ensure their own survival, I feel. You have to group up, but past that, trust no one.[/QUOTE] We should start a thread about improving pvp in general

[QUOTE=DrABK;42680742]That already exists, it's called DayZ. There fixed your problem. Seriously though, this is a survivor/builder game with PvP included. If you want survivor/PvP with some building included (eventually), then DayZ is your game, not Rust. The entire idea of this is to make you think about shooting before just shooting. If you want a weapon that doesn't have any malfunction risk, pick a bow (or slingshot or crossbow if they add one). The new guys right now, aren't the ones with weapons. They have hatchets, rocks, and bows. This would affect all the people that want to run around in kevlar and high quality weapons, acting like this is Mad Max and they are part of the chain gang.[/QUOTE] I realize the whole DayZ similarity thing has been thrown around a lot, but I feel that this game is more like DayZ to a higher level. My vision of rust is an immersive survival experience, where survival is both on the level of building a house and gathering food, but also preparing for an onslaught of people out to get you. I realize that is a lot of what DayZ is about, but plenty more can be added to the formula to shy away from it as well. [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;42680745]We should start a thread about improving pvp in general[/QUOTE] If you wanna start it go ahead, I'll be on the lookout. :smile:

I know, I am just saying less peaking and prone, etc. That game also uses a more advanced engine which allows for a LOT more such as better rendering at further distances, something this game may or may not be able to do (no clue). I'm not saying I don't want PvP, because I'm happy to have it, I'm just looking to throw out ideas that make the "get to the endgame where I sit around and kill people" take as long as possible. But at the same time, no matter how far along you are, there is balance between you, everyone ahead of you, and everyone behind you. The only way to really obtain that balance is through "work required" and random chance. This game has much simpler controls than a LOT of the games out there today so the key layout should easily allow for things like peaking and prone, I'm just not sure how much development they would take and do they work to improve balance or further some specific game aspect?

[QUOTE=DrABK;42680902]I know, I am just saying less peaking and prone, etc. That game also uses a more advanced engine which allows for a LOT more such as better rendering at further distances, something this game may or may not be able to do (no clue). I'm not saying I don't want PvP, because I'm happy to have it, I'm just looking to throw out ideas that make the "get to the endgame where I sit around and kill people" take as long as possible. But at the same time, no matter how far along you are, there is balance between you, everyone ahead of you, and everyone behind you. The only way to really obtain that balance is through "work required" and random chance. This game has much simpler controls than a LOT of the games out there today so the key layout should easily allow for things like peaking and prone, I'm just not sure how much development they would take and do they work to improve balance or further some specific game aspect?[/QUOTE] Well, the whole theme of the game is realism, and a survival situation where killing people for their resources is almost a must. Any mechanics to ensure your own survival are priority, I feel. I am pretty sure the guy above was being sarcastic about food expiration dates, but I actually feel this to be quite a good mechanic to add in as well. Meat, without a preservative, is going to get worms and go bad very quickly. This means you should only gather as much as you need or it is a wasted trip. On the other hand, foods like cans of beans will take a very long time to go bad since they are canned and sealed. Case in point, realism in a survival situation is really what rust is about, in my opinion, so anything along these lines should be welcomed. Anyways, to the topic at hand, it is almost certainty that modern weapons will be removed from what I have heard, so there will be no need for people to worry about weapon degradation on those. The devs seem to be opting for makeshift weapons instead, which gives all the more validity to firearm malfunctions.

The idea is never going to work. Either the malfunctions are common enough that it causes issues with freshly spawned people trying to defend themselves or its rare enough that the people who kill everyone don't care. Requiring you to clean your gun etc favours those who already have safe houses to stay in while they clean their guns etc, so that would just make things worse. The only solution is making ammo rare, like in the Metro game. Adding low quality ammo to the game could work, it would have disadvantages such not doing very much damage.

[QUOTE=samfisher5986;42681312]The idea is never going to work. Either the malfunctions are common enough that it causes issues with freshly spawned people trying to defend themselves or its rare enough that the people who kill everyone don't care. Requiring you to clean your gun etc favours those who already have safe houses to stay in while they clean their guns etc, so that would just make things worse. The only solution is making ammo rare, like in the Metro game. You could even make low quality ammo more common, but these would work poorly and you couldn't too easily shoot a freshly spawned person unless you were up close.[/QUOTE] The idea is that a freshly crafted weapon is "good" condition and will last you a while, ideally until you have a shelter built and have the time to clean said weapon. It's all in the name of realism really.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;42681322]The idea is that a freshly crafted weapon is "good" condition and will last you a while, ideally until you have a shelter built and have the time to clean said weapon. It's all in the name of realism really.[/QUOTE] I'm still not sure how this makes it difficult for those who are already set up? Make 5 guns and go through them all, go back to base and repair them all then go back out again... Again, just makes it harder for new people.

[QUOTE=samfisher5986;42681351]I'm still not sure how this makes it difficult for those who are already set up? Make 5 guns and go through them all, go back to base and repair them all then go back out again... Again, just makes it harder for new people.[/QUOTE] Well, the idea is that it is time-consuming to clean five guns, and they degrade even when not in use from the elements, so it would technically be frowned upon to make a ton to stockpile them. Again, your opinion is welcome, I am just giving my own opinion.

[QUOTE=samfisher5986;42681351]I'm still not sure how this makes it difficult for those who are already set up? Make 5 guns and go through them all, go back to base and repair them all then go back out again... Again, just makes it harder for new people.[/QUOTE] Having 5 guns on you negatively impacts your performance on raids, as you now have 5 slots taken up by one single kind of weapon, leaving you only 5 other slots for everything else such as medkits. That, or you store them in your inventory and have to keep track of which ones are used and which ones are new/cleaned up, and have fewer slots for loot. Additionally, keeping a stockpile of weapons at home is less than ideal as you now have to maintain all of them, even if you don't use them. This could encourage even more teamwork in clans - perhaps you might appoint one or two people to maintain the base's gun supply and ensure that the guns are in working order.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42681511]Having 5 guns on you negatively impacts your performance on raids, as you now have 5 slots taken up by one single kind of weapon, leaving you only 5 other slots for everything else such as medkits. Additionally, keeping a stockpile of weapons at home is less than ideal as you now have to maintain all of them, even if you don't use them. This could encourage even more teamwork in clans - perhaps you might appoint one or two people to maintain the base's gun supply and ensure that the guns are in working order.[/QUOTE] I agree, rust is first survival and combat, and second teamwork and friendship. You really can't lone wolf the game too well anyway, so this just means that teaming up is an even bigger priority over making lots of guns. Just another of my two cents.

[QUOTE=samfisher5986;42681312]The idea is never going to work. Either the malfunctions are common enough that it causes issues with freshly spawned people trying to defend themselves or its rare enough that the people who kill everyone don't care. Requiring you to clean your gun etc favours those who already have safe houses to stay in while they clean their guns etc, so that would just make things worse. The only solution is making ammo rare, like in the Metro game. Adding low quality ammo to the game could work, it would have disadvantages such not doing very much damage.[/QUOTE] Making ammo "rare" is no better because then it just means that the people who are there early enough, can accumulate the ability to raid other people and therefore will gain power the fastest. So in reality, making just "harder to obtain" in reality just makes power pile up in the hands of the few. An RNG would work to level the playing field by hurting the people with all the ammo and firepower. The "new spawn" should be working to gather as many resources he can as fast as he can, not crafting weapons and looking to fight other people. If you have no house to hide in, you certainly shouldn't be trying to make a gun to kill people with. If you remember from the Hunger Games (yes the movie), the adviser said that "hypothermia and dehydration will kill half of the people".

If this is going to happen we need two ammo types like in metro, and like in metro again we need reliable weapons like the Kalash 2012 and unreliable weapons like the Bastard

[QUOTE=DrABK;42681660]Making ammo "rare" is no better because then it just means that the people who are there early enough.[/QUOTE] I agree however it means people won't waste bullets on people who don't need shooting. It also won't be a huge issue if there is low quality bullets around as well.

[QUOTE=samfisher5986;42681956]I agree however it means people won't waste bullets on people who don't need shooting. It also won't be a huge issue if there is low quality bullets around as well.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily. It depends on how "rare" the bullets are. The point at which it's not worth killing bambi's for resources, is the point at which there isn't a need for more than one time of firearm because there wouldn't be enough bullets to warrant more than one kind of gun. Besides, at that point, raiders will end up amassing enough power that people without equal amounts of power will not be able to stop the raiders (tried killing a kevlar guy with a bow yet?). It'll basically be how the PvE server is/was.

[video=youtube;ek7cD-c9AlE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7cD-c9AlE[/video] I'll just leave this here, too. It's more an informative video, but this shows that this kind of stuff does happen.