ladders makes the game way to easy
for new players and ppl starting out it makes the game even worse for them.
can raid any base with out any skill thought put into it really.
c4 already does huge splash dmg and easy to make.
big groups got even more op.
ladders force you to BUILD a very few ways to make it some what harder to get raided.
every base will look pretty much the same...
ladders was such a good thing for rust HUH lolz all this sounds like a win
so fun :tinfoil:
Ladder is the best thing to go along with cupboard... cupboard was OP before ladder, cupboard was implement to stop griefing and not raiding, now it's balance and I really love it. And ladder is used since prehistorical age, nothing is easier to build and use.
Base building should be a little more realistic now... no more I remove my stair and you're fucked up, or you can't climb on my rock... build your base with a maximum C4 need to access your loot in all direction, don't put everything on the same place...
And to all who cry about raider that take there precious stuff... WTF are you doing with chest full of ressource? use it as soon as you get them. Sometime I find several chest load with gun and ammo, in a single player base, stop collecting them and use it, I like to have a main gun and one as a back up at a time, no need for more than that. If it cost a lot to raid your base and they find almost nothing they will raid you less, if not they'll loose there time and you can laugh at them.
Stop giving so much importance to your stuff... because It's RUST and sooner or later you will lost everything :wink:
P.S. I play solo or with a single friend... yes the game favor group maybe to much... but as solo player don't try to have the same objective as group player do. Hide, strike fast and run fast.
[QUOTE=CrazyRonny;47799927] ladder is used since prehistorical age[/QUOTE]
are you trying to say dinos used ladders
[QUOTE=MrBluePlaydoh;47785625]Thank you so far this is what every one is saying on the server im playing on, Raiding just isnt fun any more and you dont get a sence of acheivment when you do manage to raid.[/QUOTE]
We raided you and everyone else on your server that's probably why you're upset.
[QUOTE=bloods;47800394]We raided you and everyone else on your server that's probably why you're upset.[/QUOTE]
lol and i bet now you like fuckk what to do.. ladders makes it easy mode
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;47799379]Tool cupboard mechanic is realistic.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/rsroleplay/images/8/8d/Never-Go-Full-Retard.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150224075119[/IMG]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("image macro" - Orkel))[/highlight]
I can see why Ladders are needed but I think there need to be more restrictions on them.
Ladders can bipass inhibs but only when placed on non player made objects (rocks, cliffs) nothing player made.
There should be a limit to how many one person can carry or place. Like max of 1-2. The materials are SO inexpensive, it is dumb.
We are so discouraged, spend so much time and effort making a base and someone can roll around with wood and cloth and bipass and use C4 in select spots unless you make the whole base hideous with spikes that stab YOU too.
[QUOTE=CrazyRonny;47799927]Ladder is the best thing to go along with cupboard... cupboard was OP before ladder, cupboard was implement to stop griefing and not raiding, ..
[/QUOTE]
Stopping griefing not raiding would have been Garry making cupboards prevent upgrading beyond twig and barricade placement. In my opinion it definitely inhibited both.
[editline]25th May 2015[/editline]
Don't worry about all these ladder haters. Ingenious base makers will develop beautiful structural counters and there designs will be copied and emulated by all the less creative folks bitching that their now inefficient towers are being wiped out by a new mechanic.
Humans adapt
We just bitch a bunch while we do it.
Ladders are great, adds a new dynamic feel to raiding, lets you be risky and drop down into a base after pickaxing through the roof. Also makes rock bases useless so bl to the people that loved their little safe haven.
I'm a huge ran of ladders, I have seen some interesting base designs since they came out.
There's this really annoying thing with spiked barriers where they damage you through a wall. I wonder what would happen to people climbing ladders up a wall like that?
EDIT: I tried it out and it didn't seem to work : (
[QUOTE=bloods;47800394]We raided you and everyone else on your server that's probably why you're upset.[/QUOTE]
You probably did but it didnt make me upset what makes me upset is its just so easy and boring to raid now, dont even need to think about it.
After reading the posts here and the people that say change the way you build (over hangs barricades etc etc) it still dont stop the ladder raids as we have raided these types of buildings already which are just as easy.
[editline]26th May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=DeadRisen;47803038]Stopping griefing not raiding would have been Garry making cupboards prevent upgrading beyond twig and barricade placement. In my opinion it definitely inhibited both.
[editline]25th May 2015[/editline]
Don't worry about all these ladder haters. Ingenious base makers will develop beautiful structural counters and there designs will be copied and emulated by all the less creative folks bitching that their now inefficient towers are being wiped out by a new mechanic.
Humans adapt
We just bitch a bunch while we do it.[/QUOTE]
Thats where your wrong C4 will just blast through any defence you put out there!
[QUOTE=frank_walls;47805338]There's this really annoying thing with spiked barriers where they damage you through a wall. I wonder what would happen to people climbing ladders up a wall like that?
EDIT: I tried it out and it didn't seem to work : ([/QUOTE]
It's possible, I've done it by accident. I always hit those damn spikes inside my own base now when using that ladder.
So after some more time with ladders and the consequences:
It simply makes the resource game so heavy on the base defenders that just about everybody who builds in the open and does not have a 10 players clan, get in general used as nothing beyond resource cattle, to be culled each day.
Before it was already bad but now its made raiding so easy that its just ridiculous. Especially when people can build inside bases now with the ladders. From what i can tell, most raiders do not even bother with blowing up walls. They just go for a weak spot in a resource starved player/clan there base and quickly gain entry. Inside there is nothing really stopping a top down attack. Or even a lower to top attack.
The only real defenses are more resources and lots of time. Be its crafting barricades to melting more metal. But that only delays at attacker for a few minutes. Barricade? Hack your way past it. Takes the defender x * 150 second ( wood - beginner barricade ) to build. But a attacker only focuses on one and there is the wall.
Hell ... most simply twig tower because that extra ladder defense makes twig tower jumps SOOOO much more easy. And because people do not have the time / resources to build barricades everywhere on there roof / extended parts.
Another nice new attack: Twig tower + one C4 ... there goes all those nasty wooden barricades and in general the anti-ladder floors survive. And metal barricades is in general for somebody who is already established and who has a lot of play time available.
Currently, I find ladders make raiding too easy. I've said it before - no base I've wanted into has ever kept me out as of yet. There's always a way in. Unraidable bases were a myth propagated by people that just couldn't figure out how to do something.
Since ladders, there's really little strategy left when it comes to raiding. Honestly, it's sucked much of the fun out of Rust for me. I enjoyed the puzzle solving aspect of raiding. That just doesn't exist anymore IMO. Ladders are just a little too flexible when you can stick them to walls like post-it notes, use them to move around corners, etc. I'm for ladders, but I think their current use is a little too unrealistic.
Now that said, ladders were introduced hastily in mid content cycle. We're dealing with bases that were built prior to ladders being added to the game. At best, extra defences have been added to these old bases to try to counter the use of ladders and deployed with varying degrees of success. Once we get our big wipe next week and new bases start being built with ladders in mind, I think we may see bases being built to counter ladder use. That may bring the challenge of raiding back to the game.
So I'll reserve judgement on ladders until then. I don't think it's fair for me to totally pass judgement on ladders when using them on bases that weren't built with the use of ladders in mind. I think they're a little too unrealistic in their current form, but there are ways to deal with them. My group and I have already been crafting what we think are pretty anti-ladder strategies for our next base build. So we'll see how it works out.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47807584]Currently, I find ladders make raiding too easy. I've said it before - no base I've wanted into has ever kept me out as of yet. There's always a way in. Unraidable bases were a myth propagated by people that just couldn't figure out how to do something.
Since ladders, there's really little strategy left when it comes to raiding. Honestly, it's sucked much of the fun out of Rust for me. I enjoyed the puzzle solving aspect of raiding. That just doesn't exist anymore IMO. Ladders are just a little too flexible when you can stick them to walls like post-it notes, use them to move around corners, etc. I'm for ladders, but I think their current use is a little too unrealistic.
Now that said, ladders were introduced hastily in mid content cycle. We're dealing with bases that were built prior to ladders being added to the game. At best, extra defences have been added to these old bases to try to counter the use of ladders and deployed with varying degrees of success. Once we get our big wipe next week and new bases start being built with ladders in mind, I think we may see bases being built to counter ladder use. That may bring the challenge of raiding back to the game.
So I'll reserve judgement on ladders until then. I don't think it's fair for me to totally pass judgement on ladders when using them on bases that weren't built with the use of ladders in mind. I think they're a little too unrealistic in their current form, but there are ways to deal with them. My group and I have already been crafting what we think are pretty anti-ladder strategies for our next base build. So we'll see how it works out.[/QUOTE]
Agree! But stop trying to block the ladders, you can block ladders against smaller groups, but bigger groups can craft a shitload of c4, and rockets to blow away the most of the blocking objects. With this new update c4 is doing way more damage against armored walls also. Like 2 c4 will lower it too 160 points and it will do a lot of extra damage too other walls also.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47807584]Now that said, ladders were introduced hastily in mid content cycle. We're dealing with bases that were built prior to ladders being added to the game. At best, extra defences have been added to these old bases to try to counter the use of ladders and deployed with varying degrees of success. Once we get our big wipe next week and new bases start being built with ladders in mind, I think we may see bases being built to counter ladder use. That may bring the challenge of raiding back to the game.[/QUOTE]
Actually, i am playing on a server that wipe the map on the day that ladders got introduced. They did a complete fresh start.
So almost everybody and there brother started building taking in account ladders. And just about every base had sticking out floors. The problem was:
* It makes it easy for twig tower raiding. Before you where able to get withing cupboard / jump range from height. Now you can just focus on the anti-ladder platform for your jumps.
* People in general do not add a lot of defenses to there base because by the time the got the resources to build it, there "work" day is already over and they need to go to sleep. And they even run out before they finish there roof at times. The end result is the next day this person log's into a raided base. And they can spend even more time resource gathering all over again.
* They ability to bypass the cupboards in bases just made it soooooo easy to get higher ( or lower! You can now avoid base trap pits ( deep holes in bases designed to trap people into )! And yea, even people place ladders under angles to get around corners.
[QUOTE=s1N1x;47807724]Agree! But stop trying to block the ladders, you can block ladders against smaller groups, but bigger groups can craft a shitload of c4, and rockets to blow away the most of the blocking objects. With this new update c4 is doing way more damage against armored walls also. Like 2 c4 will lower it too 160 points and it will do a lot of extra damage too other walls also.[/QUOTE]
My point exactly s1N1x ... big groups have a LOT of fun in Rust. They only need to deal with other big groups and in general there bases become protected very fast thanks to the ability to suck resources out of area's at a exponential speed.
I did not know that C4 damage has been enhanced on armored. Need to check it out the next time i have access to C4. If its true, its another slap in base builders there faces because its already FREAKING costly to build bases with armored walls everywhere. When you have two walls that are armored, you expect the attacker to spend 6 C4. Yet, all it takes is 3C4 for the first and at best 2 C4 for the second. I have even seen them do only 1 C4 on the second or third wall. Because of the blast range of C4, the deeper you go into a base, the less C4 it actually costs, despite the cost for your to make walls is still the same.
Ladder made that even cheaper because they can simply blow hols into floors and use ladders, instead of trying to find the stairs.
At times i think the developers are not even trying to keep things balanced. Looking at the last few days commits to Rust there development, beyond tweaks, improvements to the map generation ( = map wipe on 04/06 is 100% sure ) and a bunch of fixes, there does not seem to be much progress made towards any kind of base enhancements or resource enhancements.
O and ... hapis island is very spars with resource generation. So the developers are clearly looking that people build small and need to go hunt for resources. And while this is no problem for big clans, the small guy / clans get left in the dust all the time because its a freaking slaughter fest. Does not help that the map is small and half is nonbuildable area with no resources at all.
Anyway ... next week i am 100% sure going to try out ARK. The amount of work vs raid protection that goes into Rust is becoming a freaking second daytime job and even then your going to get raided with ease. The game really is: Join the biggest clans on the server and you have a lot of fun. Be part of medium or smaller clans and your just meat to be eaten.
@benjiro
man your post is so real...i can almost feel it.
i fully one trillion billion ga-zallion percent agree with you on this. we need more defense
[QUOTE=MrBluePlaydoh;47806448]
Thats where your wrong C4 will just blast through any defence you put out there![/QUOTE]
Did I say the bases made would be ç4 proof? The point is to make raider use as much ç4 as possible.
So yes ç4 will blast through any defenses I put out there.
Ladders were created for Vanilla servers, and they have a role to play there.
If you like modded servers with higher gather rates though, the game becomes very unbalanced when it comes to raiding.
There are servers like NoradGaming that have the Limited-Ladders plugin that doesnt allow ladders being built on player constructions/buildings while building is blocked.
However ladders will still work on rocks and icebergs even when building is blocked so those exploits are a thing of the past still.
Great
Ladders killed the game for me, personally. I moved to my other games and I will check back to see when ladders have been fixed/balanced.
Without a way to defend against them, and with the ability to place them pretty much anywhere without any restrictions, it's just silly.
At the VERY least, they need to be bound to the tool cupboard/building privs.
I may be a solo player, but I'm a solo player that's been gaming for 30 years (I'm 36 and grew up in arcades...I had IntelliVisions and Ataris as a child). I understand balance. This isn't balance.
[QUOTE=benjiro;47793436]So far already seen the effect from ladders:
* Cave base getting raided. Enemy uses a sh*tload of C4 ( biggest clan on the server ). Later they realize that there is a locked door on the second level.
Instead of breaking down the armored door with C4, they simply hack there way into the already weakened ground and use a ladder.
* Seen already five bases that are one or multi story high where the owner had no sticking out floors. All raided with ladders.
* Seen several bases where they C4 the sticking out floor and ladder up. People do not even bother trying to get in the front. Most just focus on getting to the roof.
As if C4 and rockets did not make the game difficult to have a effective defense for when your log off, now ladders make base raiding ultra cheap. Even a accidentally destroyed floor is no more limitation. The amount of raiding and constant killing going on has in my opinion skyrocketed.
People complaining how they get raided every night, sometimes multiple times... How they can not get a proper defense going.
Hell ... i have seen a guy who was so scared of the ladder, that he build several layers of sticking out floors and spend so much resources that he had non left that day to finish is roof ( what was still partially twig ). All it took was one twig tower and say hello to the loot.
There is no defense. End of story ... C4, Rockets, Ladder, Twig Tower or just hacking your way in ... The big clans love this as they have the manpower to constantly defend there own bases and only need to worry for other clans. Those same big clans then go out every night and have fun raping the medium/smaller/solo clan/players there bases. Airdrops all the time on there big base ( yay ... more resources for them ) that nobody can dare to attack.
They love the new ladder because it saves them even more on resources. Why C4 when you can ladder up. If the developers want ladders to stay in, BOTHER GIVING PROPER DEFENSES![/QUOTE]
If you cant fight them. Join them. Kappa
Here's a question that none of the "LADDERS HAVE RUINED RUST FOR EVERYONE EXCEPT POWERFUL CLANS" has been able to answer:
What is about something that makes 50 wood (or 300 wood, or even 1000 wood) to craft that you think "only powerful clans" can afford? If anything, this gives you the power to hit bases that you never could before.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47849146]Here's a question that none of the "LADDERS HAVE RUINED RUST FOR EVERYONE EXCEPT POWERFUL CLANS" has been able to answer:
What is about something that makes 50 wood (or 300 wood, or even 1000 wood) to craft that you think "only powerful clans" can afford? If anything, this gives you the power to hit bases that you never could before.[/QUOTE]Yeah, after this update raiding solo or in small groups is much easier, too easy even as finding unraided houses is the real challenge.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47849146]Here's a question that none of the "LADDERS HAVE RUINED RUST FOR EVERYONE EXCEPT POWERFUL CLANS" has been able to answer:
What is about something that makes 50 wood (or 300 wood, or even 1000 wood) to craft that you think "only powerful clans" can afford? If anything, this gives you the power to hit bases that you never could before.[/QUOTE]
Its not the ladder itself that's causing the issue, the issue is that the ladder made it possible to bypass building designs in such a way that now the price to get a "secure" base has exponentially risen. I would say the root of all evil is that "balance" sweep that raised the cost of upgrading your buildings. FP knew that they were going to be adding in ladders, barricades, and spike traps, but they still increased the building costs on all building tiers. On top of that, they still haven't balanced the triangle pieces and pillars etc to require less material than the foundations and other large pieces. On top of that there are still plenty of areas around the map that don't spawn rock nodes, which causes some issues with being able to find a single rock that you don't need to fight someone to the death over.
All in all I think it was just bad timing. If they had added ladders down the road when some other things were finished I believe there would've been only a fraction of the complaining. At this point I'm just hoping they do another balance patch but it's looking like it's going to be a while.
At this point (on my server at least) everything remotely raidable has been raided, and all we have left are the clans and the lucky few solo players whose bases are tough enough to fend off a solo attack and remote enough not to caught the attention of a clan (I'm one of these players).
I did trash one of the clan bases when ladders were first introduced, but that was a pre-emptive strike to distract them rather than something I needed ladders to do (I'd already raided them with only a tower a few days before, and their patched up defenses had weaknesses). Left the place covered in a different clans marks, so that started a war and kept them off my back.
But now there is nothing left to raid that won't cost me at least 8-10 C4, just too much crafting to be worth the time so I'm barely playing anymore. Just logging in every other day to check if I've been raided yet. It's actually become much harder to raid for a solo player, before people weren't really bothering with protecting their roofs, over-reliant on their poorly placed cupboards and building on rocks. Now every surviving base has multiple layers of armor up top. Which is fine for the clans, they've got plenty of C4, but I don't.
[QUOTE=Spoun;47793063]because the TC was never implemented to stop raiding, it was to stop griefing.[/QUOTE]
Someone has been watching phaedo 82
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