Rust streamer caught with no recoil on his own stream - Rust

[QUOTE=TwistedTryce;45424501]And if it ruins his potential livelihood, Then later turns out that your opinion was not correct can you honestly say that you would feel nothing for it? Because at that point you can not reverse that damage. Thats my whole point, You can not prove 100% therefore your opinion should not have an impact on the situation.[/QUOTE] Holy shit dude.. can we stay real here dramaqueen? Then his livelihood would be ruined by a random guy on the internet that said something that wasn't even true. I mean, if that actually happens there's something wrong with the whole system. The people higher up that actually decide whether he gets banned from Twitch etc. don't take into account random guy's opinions on this forum and I'm sure it won't be the deciding factor. So no I would not feel bad.

[QUOTE=Eunson;45423743]The best part about this thread is Grimmy frantically trying to prove he's not cheating when it's clear there is absolutely 0 recoil. From my own personal experience I never try to prove I'm not cheating because I know it myself and couldn't care less of what others opinions are. There's video evidence of 0 recoil that you recorded yourself, can't get caught more red handed than that lol.[/QUOTE] He is "frantically" trying to prove his innocence because his Twitch.tv account was suspended. He is clearly looking to prove his innocence the only way he can, which is without the help of that particular broadcast. Is this 10 second clip, taken from one of his many streams, enough to convince you that he's using no-recoil hacks? If it is enough to convince you then you are easily persuaded to believe false accusations... congradulations. There is no way to prove a negative. This being the case, in order for GrimmyBear to overcome this false claim he can either sit idly by and look like he's been caught in the wrong, OR he can do his best to give evidence that suggests his innocence. Which would you do if you were under a similar situation? I want to re-state what mrknifey posted: "the content of this video is subjective, ie prone to interpretation. in fact, the only proof that would hold any weight is logs from his computer showing the active processes on his computer at the time. and even they could be tampered with to prove it one way or another." If shown these logs we would all either accept them as untampered, or complain about how he tampered with them when they didn't display what we believe to be true. There is a term for that, Confirmation Bias.

[QUOTE=Lisome;45431586]He is "frantically" trying to prove his innocence because his Twitch.tv account was suspended. He is clearly looking to prove his innocence the only way he can, which is without the help of that particular broadcast. Is this 10 second clip, taken from one of his many streams, enough to convince you that he's using no-recoil hacks? If it is enough to convince you then you are easily persuaded to believe false accusations... congradulations. There is no way to prove a negative. This being the case, in order for GrimmyBear to overcome this false claim he can either sit idly by and look like he's been caught in the wrong, OR he can do his best to give evidence that suggests his innocence. Which would you do if you were under a similar situation? I want to re-state what mrknifey posted: "the content of this video is subjective, ie prone to interpretation. in fact, the only proof that would hold any weight is logs from his computer showing the active processes on his computer at the time. and even they could be tampered with to prove it one way or another." If shown these logs we would all either accept them as untampered, or complain about how he tampered with them when they didn't display what we believe to be true. There is a term for that, Confirmation Bias.[/QUOTE] Nope nope nope nope. Yes his 10 second clip is sufficient. It's obvious to me and many other players that it's no recoiling and the Twitch admin agreed hence why his channel is banned. There's no way to prove a negative because he got caught on his own video. Of course there's no way to prove the negative, pretty damn stupid move by Grimmy right? Another thing: Active processes on his computer wouldn't rule out macro mouse that gets rid of recoil. The reason why I think the content of the video is solid enough to call proof is because I've been playing rust for ages and I've watched hundreds of videos and watched hours and hours of the best Rust streams out there and the difference between Grimmy's no recoil and the recoil in rust that I'm familiar with is the difference between night and day.

Jesus Christ this thread has gone on long enough, can one of you just admit your wrong and get it over it already?

[QUOTE=Falxhor;45431698]Nope nope nope nope. Yes his 10 second clip is sufficient. It's obvious to me and many other players that it's no recoiling and the Twitch admin agreed hence why his channel is banned. There's no way to prove a negative because he got caught on his own video. Of course there's no way to prove the negative, pretty damn stupid move by Grimmy right? Another thing: Active processes on his computer wouldn't rule out macro mouse that gets rid of recoil. The reason why I think the content of the video is solid enough to call proof is because I've been playing rust for ages and I've watched hundreds of videos and watched hours and hours of the best Rust streams out there and the difference between Grimmy's no recoil and the recoil in rust that I'm familiar with is the difference between night and day.[/QUOTE] Twitch admins on many occasions ban accounts to shut up the masses of complaining users. Twitch does not run a tight business, for example having and using an MLG stream account will get you banned on Twitch. So your faith is Twitch admins is misguided at best.

So his twitch did get banned or is it just suspended due to investigation? The two are VERY different. Not looking to start anything just wondering as I have been following this thread.

[QUOTE=TwistedTryce;45433748]Twitch admins on many occasions ban accounts to shut up the masses of complaining users. Twitch does not run a tight business, for example having and using an MLG stream account will get you banned on Twitch. So your faith is Twitch admins is misguided at best.[/QUOTE] And where the fuck did you get that information from? Twitch is the tightest out there right now, do I need to tell you about Own3d.tv back in the day?

[QUOTE=Falxhor;45436087]And where the fuck did you get that information from? Twitch is the tightest out there right now, do I need to tell you about Own3d.tv back in the day?[/QUOTE] I already gave you a perfect example as to how Twitch is willing to ban just because of people hitting the report button, regardless of whether any rules are broken or not. Selective memory, I s'pose. Either that, or naivety.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;45436376]I already gave you a perfect example as to how Twitch is willing to ban just because of people hitting the report button, regardless of whether any rules are broken or not. Selective memory, I s'pose. Either that, or naivety.[/QUOTE] More along the lines of refusing to acknowledge points he cant defend and hope they go away. He has done that a couple time in this thread already.

[QUOTE=TwistedTryce;45437791]More along the lines of refusing to acknowledge points he cant defend and hope they go away. He has done that a couple time in this thread already.[/QUOTE] Same could be said when I mentioned perfect control of randomized horizontal recoil on an eleven round burst which should be mechanically near impossible. That kind of control requires perfect hand eye coordination as well as reaction times. Mechanically speaking that level of horizontal rng control is significantly harder to pull off twice in a row then it is to just head shot those two guys at that range.

[QUOTE=MrScratch;45441970]Same could be said when I mentioned perfect control of randomized horizontal recoil on an eleven round burst which should be mechanically near impossible. That kind of control requires perfect hand eye coordination as well as reaction times. Mechanically speaking that level of horizontal rng control is significantly harder to pull off twice in a row then it is to just head shot those two guys at that range.[/QUOTE] Watch the slo-mo part of the clip, then slow it down to 1/4 speed with the youtube player and watch it again... So that's now running 1/8th speed or so, and there is not the least trace of horizontal recoil or compensation for it. Lets assume there are just 9 values of horizontal recoil (0 and 4 values to each side), and rng to pick which one for each shot (could well be more than 9 values). The odds of 0 recoil coming up 11 times in a row are 1 in 31381059609. So yeah, we can probably rule that out. Why is anyone still seriously debating if this kid is using a mouse macro for recoil?

[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45443747]Watch the slo-mo part of the clip, then slow it down to 1/4 speed with the youtube player and watch it again... So that's now running 1/8th speed or so, and there is not the least trace of horizontal recoil or compensation for it. Lets assume there are just 9 values of horizontal recoil (0 and 4 values to each side), and rng to pick which one for each shot (could well be more than 9 values). The odds of 0 recoil coming up 11 times in a row are 1 in 31381059609. So yeah, we can probably rule that out. Why is anyone still seriously debating if this kid is using a mouse macro for recoil?[/QUOTE] More like people debating what disability causes people to actually deny the no-recoil. Eyesight failure, complete lack of knowledge of recoil, trolling, etc. but I think it's mostly reason 2. [editline]20th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Leon Garoux;45413650]How on earth could I possibly provide you with that, when his channel has been removed and all of his videos have either been hidden, or also removed from their databanks? Not like I am arguing his case here, anyways: I am simply providing an example as to how Twitch consistently bans on a whim.[/QUOTE] For Leon, you couldn't provide me with any evidence or even something close to evidence on what he was actually banned for and why they wouldn't lift it. Not selective memory, I just don't believe you on your word that that is actually what happened to your friend. Even if I believed you I wouldn't believe your friend because people that get their twitch channels banned are usually full of shit *hint Grimmy*

[QUOTE=Falxhor;45447146]More like people debating what disability causes people to actually deny the no-recoil. Eyesight failure, complete lack of knowledge of recoil, trolling, etc. but I think it's mostly reason 2. [editline]20th July 2014[/editline] For Leon, you couldn't provide me with any evidence or even something close to evidence on what he was actually banned for and why they wouldn't lift it. Not selective memory, I just don't believe you on your word that that is actually what happened to your friend. Even if I believed you I wouldn't believe your friend because people that get their twitch channels banned are usually full of shit *hint Grimmy*[/QUOTE] Okay, so naivete. You can be Twitch's white knight all you want, but that does not change that they can have their shortcomings, just like every other business in existence.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;45447357]Okay, so naivete. You can be Twitch's white knight all you want, but that does not change that they can have their shortcomings, just like every other business in existence.[/QUOTE] You're trying to excuse a cheater by saying every business in existence "has their shortcomings" that's really sad dude.

don't MAKE ME get INVOLVED AGAIN :D

[QUOTE=Falxhor;45451137]You're trying to excuse a cheater by saying every business in existence "has their shortcomings" that's really sad dude.[/QUOTE] And now you are putting words into my mouth. Perfect. You might notice that nowhere in this thread, have I ever argued Grimmy's alleged innocence - I have remained rather neutral in this entire affair.

[QUOTE=infusednz;45424882]I'll re-create the scene tonight and test it. Should be a bit of fun.[/QUOTE] Were you able to try this?

Jesus christ this entire thread is a bunch of whiny kids who have a personal vendetta against Grimmy fighting with legitimately smart people who know what they're talking about. I love reading threads like this but now I gotta jump in. He's obviously not cheating. A drunk stuck-in-the-basement Stevie Wonder could see he's not cheating. Also a Twitch admin thinking he was cheating don't mean shit. Twitch is a shitty site with retard admins. Go hitbox.tv or go home. But seriously...why even give a fuck if he is cheating in a game that is in alpha or whatever stage it's in? I mean, it seems to me that like I said above, it's just a bunch of kids who are mad that Grimmy is "fuckin bitches and getting money" to turn a phrase, and now they've gone balls to the wall in their efforts to discredit him.

[QUOTE=UserNotFound;45478580]Jesus christ this entire thread is a bunch of whiny kids who have a personal vendetta against Grimmy fighting with legitimately smart people who know what they're talking about. I love reading threads like this but now I gotta jump in. He's obviously not cheating. A drunk stuck-in-the-basement Stevie Wonder could see he's not cheating. Also a Twitch admin thinking he was cheating don't mean shit. Twitch is a shitty site with retard admins. Go hitbox.tv or go home. But seriously...why even give a fuck if he is cheating in a game that is in alpha or whatever stage it's in? I mean, it seems to me that like I said above, it's just a bunch of kids who are mad that Grimmy is "fuckin bitches and getting money" to turn a phrase, and now they've gone balls to the wall in their efforts to discredit him.[/QUOTE] I'm honestly dumbfounded that this thread even got so much attention. Grimmy might have macro'd (autohotkey) as well, which, technically, is perfectly legal (iirc, not VAC'able). Sure he has had a VAC ban in the past , but that doesn't mean that he hasn't learned from his lesson - most people who got VAC banned when they were younger and dumber (or just curious) changed accounts and don't have the VAC ban visible. The arguing in this thread is stupid. OP posted a handpicked segment from a stream, showing what SEEMS to be like no-recoil, but could be attributed to a plethora of factors: - Lag - Video quality - Youtube uploading issues - FPS - Recording Software - GPU Rendering - Software Frame Skipping (Some have this, to lower CPU usage) - A Macro (whether a hardware macro or a software macro) - A hack - Hand control - Twitch servers - The game itself is in alpha and poorly coded. - Game glitch/bug So yes, he *could* have hacked , sure. He could of also experienced on of the many problems listed above. Also, he's a streamer, who got VAC banned in the past. If he's dumb enough to hack while on stream AFTER BEING VAC BANNED and still not learning his lesson, he might as well be diagnosed with mental retardation. Oh and, have any of you thought of the possibility that he purposefully started all this as to gain more viewers? Any type of press is good press! (Ok, he probably didn't, but hey, if we're going all 9/11 conspiracy-theorist-professionals on this thread, might as well add fuel to the fire right?) [B]EDIT: [/B][I]Also, learn to think by yourselves, don't just jump to conclusions when someone shows you a single piece of "evidence". Seems like nobody here, except a handful, think very objectively. [/I] [B]EDIT2:[/B] [I]For all those who still can't bother changing the way they think, here's a spinning rust logo for you to stare at while you fail to think for yourselves: [/I][img]http://i.imgur.com/3ktfIpV.gif[/img]

That logo is mesmerizing...

[QUOTE=infusednz;45479274]That logo is mesmerizing...[/QUOTE] I bet it can go counter-clockwise as well.

How the fucking fuck is this thread still going

Are you seriously arguing for 6 pages about someone that is going to be vac banned if he did it anyway ?

[QUOTE=426_Hemi;45479675]Are you seriously arguing for 6 pages about someone that is going to be vac banned if he did it anyway ?[/QUOTE] its not even about hacking anymore, its just about one person saying the other is right [sp]im talking about both sides, im out of this![/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty84T;45479021] Oh and, have any of you thought of the possibility that he purposefully started all this as to gain more viewers? Any type of press is good press! (Ok, he probably didn't, but hey, if we're going all 9/11 conspiracy-theorist-professionals on this thread, might as well add fuel to the fire right?) [/QUOTE] Hmm.. If GrimmyBear has a second account on here, to match a Twitch.tv account of a mod of the streamer who originally accused him of hacking, then I would actually be a little impressed. what people should be doing is asking for evidence from the accused in order to see both sides of the equation. Instead people blurt out their opinions base solely off of the one short clip provided by, as I previously mentioned, the moderator of a twitch.tv broadcaster, a Twitch.tv partner no less! Section 13 [I](1)[/I], entitled "Prohibited Conduct" [I](2)[/I] part C of the official twitch.tv terms of service states "You agree that you will comply with these Terms of Service and will not: [I](3)[/I] ...post, upload, or distribute any defamatory, libellous, or inaccurate Content" so basically if/when GrimmyBear is decided innocent, Trausi, and perhaps more-so the broadcaster himself, should be put on suspension while their "Defamatory" and "Inacurate" "Content" is being reviewed. [B]EDIT[/B]: -(1) "Section 3" -->Section 13 -(2) Added section title of the Terms of Service for section 13. -(3) added list description "You agree that you will comply with these Terms of Service and will not:" to quote, from [url]http://www.twitch.tv/user/legal[/url]

[QUOTE=UserNotFound;45478580]Jesus christ this entire thread is a bunch of whiny kids who have a personal vendetta against Grimmy fighting with legitimately smart people who know what they're talking about. I love reading threads like this but now I gotta jump in. He's obviously not cheating. A drunk stuck-in-the-basement Stevie Wonder could see he's not cheating. Also a Twitch admin thinking he was cheating don't mean shit. Twitch is a shitty site with retard admins. Go hitbox.tv or go home. But seriously...why even give a fuck if he is cheating in a game that is in alpha or whatever stage it's in? I mean, it seems to me that like I said above, it's just a bunch of kids who are mad that Grimmy is "fuckin bitches and getting money" to turn a phrase, and now they've gone balls to the wall in their efforts to discredit him.[/QUOTE] Not sure if troll ._.

The question on my mind now is did his twitch account get reinstated or did they deem it a correct ban?

[url]http://i.imgur.com/HdQLKti.png[/url] ... That was fun. Sampling size grimmy, sampling size! I did it twice for good measure. [url]http://i.imgur.com/YVE36DN.png[/url] One would argue these aren't reasonably possible or I might be super human. Or that I memory edited the... Flash, java, html, idk what the site works with doesn't matter. ANYWAYS. Rather than crusading to get cheaters banned prematurely, can we going on in our future endeavors NOT scream hacker when we see something suspicious, and instead accumulate proof beyond reasonable doubt? Like intelligent homosapiens? Thannnnnnnks, that'd be great.

[QUOTE=MelGibson;45505121]The question on my mind now is did his twitch account get reinstated or did they deem it a correct ban?[/QUOTE] Not as of yet. I honestly have had the same experience with an M4 in the past, same as Grimmy. It's only when aiming far that the shots will go everywhere. I also don't have the greatest muscle control since I'm always constantly twitching, so my mouse jumps half the time from my own hand.

[QUOTE=leminlyme;45506075][url]http://i.imgur.com/HdQLKti.png[/url] ... That was fun. Sampling size grimmy, sampling size! I did it twice for good measure. [url]http://i.imgur.com/YVE36DN.png[/url] One would argue these aren't reasonably possible or I might be super human. Or that I memory edited the... Flash, java, html, idk what the site works with doesn't matter. ANYWAYS. Rather than crusading to get cheaters banned prematurely, can we going on in our future endeavors NOT scream hacker when we see something suspicious, and instead accumulate proof beyond reasonable doubt? Like intelligent homosapiens? Thannnnnnnks, that'd be great.[/QUOTE] You didn't show us an average -- just two vastly different attempts. I can only assume you did it fifty times, hoping to catch the green preemptively. What's more, you cropped the rest of the screen-cap out, which is weird. Your numbers are seriously meaningless, and nobody is going to argue that you're super-human. Looking at HBM's leader boards, the 200th highest player has a 200ms speed, while the first has an 100ms, and the second has 105ms, for reference. Also, we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Watch the video.