[QUOTE=Falxhor;47855461]In addition the new Rust PVP needs a LOT of work because it is clunky and it's buggy which makes the luck involved an even bigger factor.[/QUOTE]
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I much prefer the current Rust's bullet mechanics, but there are issues with registering hits, and frame rates tend to get really shitty when you have a lot of bullets flying around, which messes with hit detection.
Hitscan was at least a bit more realistic, the bullet drop is crazy on the AK along with how fast the projectile travels. These are super sonic rifle rounds, not subsonic .45.
Hitting in old rust felt far smoother...
[QUOTE=Dark Cupid;47858312]Hitscan was at least a bit more realistic, the bullet drop is crazy on the AK along with how fast the projectile travels. These are super sonic rifle rounds, not subsonic .45.[/QUOTE]
I would normally agree with this. But I also look at it as we're making home made ammo to fire in home made guns using crude tools and materials. I wouldn't expect them to perform like match or military grade commercial ammo fired from a factory made weapon.
I'm completely fine with the mechanics of the guns, I just wish that the damage/hits were more accurate. Garry had posted this last week on the devblog:
[I]I took a good look at the player movement this week. There was a noticeable delay when melee fighting other players, as they swung and attacked at where you were about half a second ago. This was making melee fights pretty shitty. What we were doing was updating the player position, which marked the position as changed, then the queue pushed the position out every 100ms. This doesn’t mean the player position was always 100ms behind, because their position probably updated again closer to the push-out time, But the position update message was set to a normal priority, which means they were buffered for up to 20ms before they’re pushed out.
Now we push entity positions out as soon as they’re updated. This sacrifices bandwidth for responsiveness. The updates are sent as immediate priority, which means they get sent straight away with no buffering or delay.
But then it became obvious there was another problem: the tick that players were sending to the server was also buffered. So now that’s sent immediately too. And then another problem appeared: the increased update rate revealed a bug in the lerp system, which made the player movement all jumpy. So I spent some time and got that all smooth.
These changes are already on the live branch.[/I]
However, it doesn't seem as if these changes improved the combat - if anything they seem worse. I used to be able to gather a bow and make a spear and make it quite far. Now I have Newmans with rocks killing me while I spear them 4 or 5 times in the stomach. Then after I die they don't even bleed out. It's like they score 2 or 3 hits on me before it even registers on my end.
I'm not sure, but it seems like I have similar issues in combat with guns also. I rarely take my guns out anymore because it's so hard to hit anyone. I mean really hit them - I can see the blood fly but they never seem to die. Maybe they're healing, but it seems to happen so often that I'm not sure if that's the case or not.
[QUOTE=infusednz;47858386]Hitting in old rust felt far smoother...[/QUOTE]
hmmmm... blood and flinching vs hitmark?
[QUOTE=TheStevieJ;47848052]Everyone say's how easy the old rust was shooting wise, and how it's point and click and that's why they like the new rust combat better, is that why 3/4 of the old rust population called hacks whenever they was headshot, or 4-5 people were dropped by one player and call 'hacks' because it's easy? Can't do that in this rust with skill like in legacy because the gun mechanics are horrible, what nonsense, ya'll like the new combat more because it's mostly down to luck, regardless of whether you admit to agree to it.
The gun mechanics are what hinder solo players, when I was starting in Legacy, as soon as I got a P250, even naked I could drop kevlars in a clip, or if someone come to raid me I could easily defend myself because I was confident in my aiming, in this new rust, if a group of 3 players come up to you whilst you have a semi-secure base and you try fire fight them, they'll massacre you due to turning into a tomato when shot, and horrible gun mechanics. The gunplay doesn't feel smooth or even that fun to me at all, when I kill someone I'm like, oh, ok, i'll take it I suppose, I get no satisfaction whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
as a matter of fact, I was banned on countless servers for "hacking" in legacy so if I would talk about advantage I'd want the old system to be in plce, I'm just saying that this change doesn't hurt the game, might be more random but doesn't really make it less fun
[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;47863556]as a matter of fact, I was banned on countless servers for "hacking" in legacy so if I would talk about advantage I'd want the old system to be in plce, I'm just saying that this change doesn't hurt the game, might be more random but doesn't really make it less fun[/QUOTE]
Kind of reminds me of a nicer thing about projectile weapons is that aimbotting with them while possible, is definitely nowhere near as effective in games, because players can dodge to the sides constantly. My favourite is when you play TF2 and somebody accuses you of aimbotting with a rocket launcher or grenade launcher (especially when you airshot them repeatedly); one of the dumbest (and funniest) things you can hear in a game. I think once netcoding and latency issues are fixed the new system will be a lot more fun.
[QUOTE=Outback;47863641]Kind of reminds me of a nicer thing about projectile weapons is that aimbotting with them while possible, is definitely nowhere near as effective in games, because players can dodge to the sides constantly. My favourite is when you play TF2 and somebody accuses you of aimbotting with a rocket launcher or grenade launcher (especially when you airshot them repeatedly); one of the dumbest (and funniest) things you can hear in a game. I think once netcoding and latency issues are fixed the new system will be a lot more fun.[/QUOTE]
Battlefield has hacks as well as bullet drop. TF2 does indeed have aimbots catering to rockets and grenades. Projectile prediction is not some black box programmers cannot decipher. The reason rust aimbots are trash is because the PvP in itself is gimmicky and luck based. Once the system is legacy level smooth, you will start seeing aimbotters hit much more consistently. The only way to really fool prediction is being utterly random, and most players cannot be random 100% of their gunfights. You must stop, aim, shoot, run for cover, etc.
The thread is digressing a bit, but I do agree on PvP's current state is notably better than the very early iterations, but somewhat still buggy. Garry needs to take a glance over at Battlefield, Sniper Elite or other games featuring multiplayer bullet drop and see how they do it. I trust in his decisions, as he has made some good ones that seemed bad at first.
Legacy had a high skillcap, and so should the new rust. However, my only gripes are to:
-Make the ironsights have a clear view on the target.
-Lower the first person muzzlce flash
-Increase projectile base speed to current hv speed
-Make HV hitscan-esque
I understand people have the feeling that the clunky style gunplay seems more rust-like, but the winner of a gun fight should still be determined by skill as well as strategy. I am a solo player and used to love legacy because my quick reflexes and knowledgable recoil control usually allowed me to succeed in situations where the numbers did not favor me. Why limit the skill ceiling with gun play in order to give a certain feel to the game? Many of you before me have made very valid points about legacy being enjoyable to the competitive PvP minded player, and I hope the new rust heads in that direction. It seems to cater to the average joe which is a shame to all of us who put countless hours into perfecting the physics of the game engine.
There will be those who say "git gud noob stop complaining", but the truth is I'm still pretty damn solid at out positioning/peeking the enemy, and I just wish for the game to be smoother with respect to gunplay. It's cool to see large raids and organized battles between clans, but it is also quite lame to have a group of 19 people destroy your past few hours of work in a matter of seconds whilst reminiscing about banging your mom (and other hilarious shit talk). It is quite easy to pick out the beta male trying to improve his masculinity to his friends after their 19v1 victory over your feeble establishment.
I have no idea where I'm heading with this post as I've been drinking so i'll end it here.
I prefer the new bullets with physics, it puts a lot of pressure on you as a shooter, and gives more weight into positioning and timing as opposed to one's twitch reactions. I do agree that bullets are too slow as they are now, even HV bullets. It would be nice to see them get a speed increase across the board.
But for fucks sakes can you fix the irons on the bolt action so it isn't to the left of the sight and give it a zero (or just make the center point a little ways above the sight) or something so I don't have to block my target completely with the front sight post if I want to try a long range shot.
[QUOTE=Agree;47867154]I prefer the new bullets with physics, it puts a lot of pressure on you as a shooter, and gives more weight into positioning and timing as opposed to one's twitch reactions. I do agree that bullets are too slow as they are now, even HV bullets. It would be nice to see them get a speed increase across the board.
But for fucks sakes can you fix the irons on the bolt action so it isn't to the left of the sight and give it a zero (or just make the center point a little ways above the sight) or something so I don't have to block my target completely with the front sight post if I want to try a long range shot.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why they still haven't fixed the ironsight on the bolt. If I'm correct, the iron sights on the revolver is way off the center too. I do not hope this is intended to work this way.
OT: Also I agree with most of the people here saying the PvP is buggy and clunky. I posted my experience in [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1467396&p=47844842#post47844842"]a similar thread[/URL].
Well I can say this - I'm a CS player and a lot of CS players I know left the game because the gunplay is now screwed.
I'm still here though, and while I dislike it - I have done what just about anyone else has done... used an overlay or piece of tape on the monitor with a crosshair with levels of height so there is no more guesswork on range.
Pretty lame - but hey... they took the real Gunplay out, so this is what players are stuck putting up with.
There is a big difference between realism and game mechanics. What is considered competitively fair, and what doesn't have a place in a video game.
Some games thrive on realism and are made a certain way. This game was made with hitscan - its why people came here, and it's why players like us did well.. ya know, because we can shoot. Then it was removed.... bad bad bad choice IMO.
Back to the days of taping monitors up boys! Unless that is you feel like getting owned by people that are using it.
I see current gunplay as positive thing. It's quite simmilar to legacy, but more polished, you need just to compensate for bullet travel time and bullet drop i would even add more sway while moving your gun fast, but i guess bullet drop + travel time evens it out. The hit marker was replaced by blood/sparks and i think it's better in this way. In legacy mp5, m4 and p250 was broken guns, while you were aiming, no movement no sway on the gun itself(even CS have this thing while moving expressed by crosshair size), thats what it made "arcadey" (legacy broken guns - recoil = quake) it was easy to get used to it fast, if you had experience with Quake 3 instagib maches - getting used to legacy broken guns was even faster progress, 1st hit- headshot, other hits wherever = all dead. I guess,OP, you've never tried to shoot in games like Arma 3, those crossairs are like all over the place + balistics. Usualy practice, and calmnes makes getting used to any gun system a bit faster.
Well, taping monitor stuff could be fixed by an muzle movement while on hip (that little "play" before your screen moves), just as legacy had. Taping was helpfull for bows, and for bolt actions. Now it could be used to efficiently hip fire.
Yup - i don't use sites at all now, hip fire everything.
The only thing that aggravates me is a piece of tape on my $500 Benq
[QUOTE]The only thing that aggravates me is a piece of tape on my $500 Benq[/QUOTE]
Lol at least you can admit to exploiting.
This isn't CS. Go play CS if you want a hitscan twitch shooter.
Ok we are using home made firearms that are one step ahead of muskets. Discharging rounds made with home made black powder, certainly a long way from today's smokeless powder in 99% of manufactured ammunition today. There needs to be lots of muzzle flash and tons of smoke or it's just not rusty enough in my opinion. I don't know shit about making a video game and I'm not a professional game player by any stretch but I KNOW firearms. Having been an instructor and a law enforcement officer I think the chaos of the current PVPsystem is pretty dam good and is a far closer representation of a real fire fight than the other games people have listed
Hitscan weapons with no ballistics does not fit Rust theme. For a handmade gun using handmade bullets it sure as hell performs damn well as is.
[QUOTE="itisjuly"]For a handmade gun using handmade bullets it sure as hell performs damn well as is. [/QUOTE]
Absolutely. We can be glad stuff isn't exploding in front of our faces (yet?).
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47872231]Hitscan weapons with no ballistics does not fit Rust theme. For a handmade gun using handmade bullets it sure as hell performs damn well as is.[/QUOTE]
This; that and apparently people don't know how to lead and predict people with projectile based weapons. They should seriously just jump on TF2 and play demo for a few hours and try to land pills to get the general hang of it.
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