[QUOTE=withnail;47150796]Oh give me a break. If they don't like the asshole community, they don't have to play. If there's one game I thought I could count on not being invaded by all those "safespace" idiots, I thought it would be Rust.
People being assholes or not is emergent gameplay.
It seems the only time I ever seem to notice someone is female is because they have to go "OMG I'M A GIRL ^-^", and these are the sort of people who will cry over KoSing or whatever. There's planty of cool female gamers, and most of them you don't even know they are female, because it just isn't relevant. I bet those type of girls would hate the idea of being censored to pander to a few overly sensitive people's feelings.
I hear emotes are being added in soon. Wave, surrender, growl, that sort of thing. I expect the growl one will be used to simulate buttsex probably. If you don't like that, go play on an empty server.[/QUOTE]
And above [b]neil.hillman[/b], is the exact type of response that proves my point. Thank you for your kind response.
[b]utilitron[/b]: Very concise and intelligent post. I didn't throw that out there lightly, I would love to see more diversity in the game. Females, different races, but I [i]know[/i] the reaction that the type of people that play on these servers will have. Racism, sexism and harassment, use of the 'N' bomb, slurs, homophobic jokes, slurs and comments.
I already see too much of it being allowed in an attempt to fit in and look cool on the Internet. Placing female or other race avatars in game will create an absolutely sickening situation, unless there is an intelligent server admin with a conscience to police the server.
'[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1350623]Rusty[/url]' has a built in word filter that kicks and then bans automatically based on the admin's chosen words. I use it on my dev server because the infestation of trolls looking to impress with slurs and shocking behavior has infected even the development side.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a prude. I am an old fart with a gay son who has had to change and learn a few things. I am also ex-military and a truck driver. You know, the original "Get off my lawn" asshole.
However, ignorance, in my opinion, has no place in game. Neither does sexism or harassment.
Surely the simplest answer to all this is to get rid of nakeds altogether. Introduce female avatars but have both sexes spawn in some kind of basic loin cloth etc. I don't know why any of you enjoy seeing a pixelated penis anyway.
That would be a patch, but doesn't solve the issue. Facepunch should not need to compromise to get around the sick or ignorant behavior of the players in the game.
[QUOTE=y0himba;47152779]That would be a patch, but doesn't solve the issue. Facepunch should not need to compromise to get around the sick or ignorant behavior of the players in the game.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you about the obnoxious and disgusting behavior that we will see a rise in from female characters. Rape jokes and the like will be even more prevalent and harassment will definitely find it's way to people playing a female avatar, but I still think after all that horrible shit that there should be the freedom to chose the gender you want to play as.
What would be really funny but probably impossible is to make the perpetrators of this harassment HAVE to play as a female so that they become the target of the harassment they supported.
I am a girl too that loves rust but i would like to see a female character, i am sick of see pennis xD the body of a women naked is more beautiful and although many guys will do stupid things with the female character, i think u must have the choose to use it. Hope will be soon in the game.
[QUOTE=Thor-axe;47154189]
What would be really funny but probably impossible is to make the perpetrators of this harassment HAVE to play as a female so that they become the target of the harassment they supported.[/QUOTE]
This^. A thousand time this.
[QUOTE=y0himba;47152409]I [i]know[/i] the reaction that the type of people that play on these servers will have. Racism, sexism and harassment, use of the 'N' bomb, slurs, homophobic jokes, slurs and comments.
I already see too much of it being allowed in an attempt to fit in and look cool on the Internet. Placing female or other race avatars in game will create an absolutely sickening situation, unless there is an intelligent server admin with a conscience to police the server.
'[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1350623]Rusty[/url]' has a built in word filter that kicks and then bans automatically based on the admin's chosen words. I use it on my dev server because the infestation of trolls looking to impress with slurs and shocking behavior has infected even the development side.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a prude. I am an old fart with a gay son who has had to change and learn a few things. I am also ex-military and a truck driver. You know, the original "Get off my lawn" asshole.
However, ignorance, in my opinion, has no place in game. Neither does sexism or harassment.[/QUOTE]
Do you also think that women shouldn't be allowed to wear skimpy clothing simply so that you don't have to witness them being catcalled?
No. As I said above, I think we should "behave", in a utopian society that would happen. Alas, that most likely will not happen in this case.
A real man knows how to control himself and respect a female. As someone else said above, there are those of us who would try and get rid of the lowlifes trying to impress with their shocking behavior.
However, even though I believe women should be able to wear what they want and not need to suffer what lowbrow males spew, that does not mean it is reality.
[QUOTE=y0himba;47155804]However, even though I believe women should be able to wear what they want and not need to suffer what neanderthal humans spew, that does not mean it is reality.[/QUOTE]
So...you do think women shouldn't wear skimpy clothing then? If so, that's fine, because then you're consistent if nothing else.
I personally cannot think of a compelling reason to deny anyone the ability to choose to play as a female in-game.
Gasoline Promotion, Rust Female 3D model
[url]https://sketchfab.com/models/55700fe480df4130995418bb209452be[/url]
you cant have her clean shaven and bathed, she needs to be hairy and dirty and sweaty looking..
and preferably look like she could beat the shit out of you with her rock.
vote this up maybe they will implement them earlier then we think: [url]http://support.facepunchstudios.com/feedback/view/214-play-as-a-woman[/url]
[QUOTE=intrepidenigm;47155824]So...you do think women shouldn't wear skimpy clothing then? If so, that's fine, because then you're consistent if nothing else.
I personally cannot think of a compelling reason to deny anyone the ability to choose to play as a female in-game.[/QUOTE]
I think you are taking his view out of context here. A woman wearing skimpy clothing is a choice. Typically, sexualizing yourself by wearing revealing clothing is to garner attention. However even this isn't indicative of a person allowing you to objectify them. Case and point: bikini's. Although revealing, the intent isn't to sexualize themselves. Another good example of this in [URL="http://www.ibtimes.com/san-diego-comic-con-cosplay-sexual-harassment-takes-center-stage-2014-fan-convention-1641202"]comic con[/URL].
The same can be said for being a female in Rust. By the mere decision to disclose their sexuality isn't an invitation for others to hit on them, or harass them. But it happens. This will only be multiplied when a female model is introduced.
As long as we can acknowledge the issues at hand, and work to put into play a set of standards and perhaps even a way of reporting offenders to steam or FP, we should be ok. But if people choose to pretend that the issue isn't real. We are dead in the water.
[QUOTE=utilitron;47157738]I
As long as we can acknowledge the issues at hand, and work to put into play a set of standards and perhaps even a way of reporting offenders to steam or FP, we should be ok. But if people choose to pretend that the issue isn't real. We are dead in the water.[/QUOTE]
I think the method of reporting could be something like this: [url]https://elsmar.com/pdf_files/hurt%20feelings%20report.jpeg[/url]
[QUOTE=withnail;47157922]I think the method of reporting could be something like this: [url]https://elsmar.com/pdf_files/hurt%20feelings%20report.jpeg[/url][/QUOTE]
Hahaha: Do you need a tissue for your tears? [_] YES [_] NO
[QUOTE=withnail;47157922]I think the method of reporting could be something like this: [url]https://elsmar.com/pdf_files/hurt%20feelings%20report.jpeg[/url][/QUOTE]
It is this exact issue that will hurt Rust. the fact of the matter is it is [URL="http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/2007/12/31/another-case-of-internet-game-stalking/"]not a joke[/URL]. These issues are very [URL="http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2014/10/pew-women-suffering-online-harassment-worse-than-men/"]severe[/URL] and [URL="http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/08/sexual_harassment_in_the_gaming_world_a_real_life_problem_for_female_gamers_.html"]real[/URL].
The fact of the matter is the harassment doesn't stop when they turn off the game. Some players will send friend requests and continue the harassment.
Playing this off as some kind of joke really speaks to the validity that these issues are so prevalent that you don't even realize you are perpetuating the harassment and hate with this stupid joke.
Mocking real issues surly won't get us anywhere. Thanks for proving that you are too immature to understand the actual issue.
[QUOTE=GrymThor;47157113]Gasoline Promotion, Rust Female 3D model
[url]https://sketchfab.com/models/55700fe480df4130995418bb209452be[/url][/QUOTE]
really nice but the eyes look like an alien
[QUOTE=utilitron;47158144]It is this exact issue that will hurt Rust. the fact of the matter is it is [URL="http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/2007/12/31/another-case-of-internet-game-stalking/"]not a joke[/URL]. These issues are very [URL="http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2014/10/pew-women-suffering-online-harassment-worse-than-men/"]severe[/URL] and [URL="http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/08/sexual_harassment_in_the_gaming_world_a_real_life_problem_for_female_gamers_.html"]real[/URL].
The fact of the matter is the harassment doesn't stop when they turn off the game. Some players will send friend requests and continue the harassment.
Playing this off as some kind of joke really speaks to the validity that these issues are so prevalent that you don't even realize you are perpetuating the harassment and hate with this stupid joke.
Mocking real issues surly won't get us anywhere. Thanks for proving that you are too immature to understand the actual issue.[/QUOTE]
Thant's why there's a "block" button. :rock: People need to understand that the internet is full of asshats, dipshits, etc. Everything can be stopped with the simple click of the block button on whatever platform your using. Harassment over the internet only happens if the user allows there opponent to do so.
[QUOTE=utilitron;47157738]I think you are taking his view out of context here. A woman wearing skimpy clothing is a choice. Typically, sexualizing yourself by wearing revealing clothing is to garner attention. However even this isn't indicative of a person allowing you to objectify them. Case and point: bikini's. Although revealing, the intent isn't to sexualize themselves. Another good example of this in [URL="http://www.ibtimes.com/san-diego-comic-con-cosplay-sexual-harassment-takes-center-stage-2014-fan-convention-1641202"]comic con[/URL].
The same can be said for being a female in Rust. By the mere decision to disclose their sexuality isn't an invitation for others to hit on them, or harass them. But it happens. This will only be multiplied when a female model is introduced.
As long as we can acknowledge the issues at hand, and work to put into play a set of standards and perhaps even a way of reporting offenders to steam or FP, we should be ok. But if people choose to pretend that the issue isn't real. We are dead in the water.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you actually. Online harassment is a serious issue, and I have no doubt that adding female models will further that harassment.
Nevertheless, that is not a good enough reason to take away the choice to play as a female in Rust, which is what yOhimba was arguing for. It is rather paternalistic to tell women that we know what's best for them by not allowing them to play as a female in-game. Surely it is for them to individually decide how they want to experience the game, regardless of the overall consequences that such decisions may create.
How about player models without secondary sexual characteristics and genitals? xD
[QUOTE=Poxy;47158182]Thant's why there's a "block" button. :rock: People need to understand that the internet is full of asshats, dipshits, etc. Everything can be stopped with the simple click of the block button on whatever platform your using. Harassment over the internet only happens if the user allows there opponent to do so.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand the breadth and depth that this sort of stalking can become. It is not as simple as blocking. There needs to be punitive actions taken.
[QUOTE=utilitron;47158315]I don't think you understand the breadth and depth that this sort of stalking can become. It is not as simple as blocking.[b]There needs to be punitive actions taken.[/b][/QUOTE]
I think it depends on context, and whether people misinterprete it. I've said the words "die, bitch" in rust to far more men than women (if I've ever said it to any women), but I can imagine a scenario where some thin-skinned female would think this was some kind of sexist slur.
I think in the world that Rust represents, there probably wouldn't be any thought police left. At least I would hope so.
Perhaps you missed the post where I put actual research on the subject up?
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1451265&p=47151246&viewfull=1#post47151246[/url]
[url]http://theevolvedgamer.com/scientific-proof-that-gamers-are-ridiculously-sexist/[/url]
[QUOTE]The game they chose was Halo 3, a first person shooter with a strong online multiplayer component. They had a single individual play all the multiplayer matches to control for gameplay, but used either a male for female voice, with a control treatment that consisted of no voice. The voices were limited to a few key phrases that were non-inflammatory (e.g., “nice job so far” or “that was a good game everyone”). They then measured the number of queries, positive and negative comments.
In short, the authors found something appalling. The female voice received 3 times the negative comments than the male voice, often being called a ‘slut’ or ‘whore’. The female voice also received only 3/4 of the positive comments of the male voice. Even worse, the female voice received significantly more queries and friend requests.[/QUOTE]
This is not the case of some "thin-skinned female". This is actual data validating that women are harassed in online games.
[editline]17th February 2015[/editline]
and that last line... "Even worse, the female voice received significantly more queries and friend requests." is where the mere ability to block harassing players is just not enough.
It is not always the guy yelling "Die you slutty bitch" who is the problem. It could be the guy who steps in and tries to protect her. Befriending her. Then cyber stalking her.
As long as we look at the problem as real, and look for real solutions, it can be mitigated. Bad stuff will happen regardless of female models being added. But we need to be proactive in how we handle these situations.
[QUOTE=utilitron;47158585]This is not the case of some "thin-skinned female". This is actual data validating that women are harassed in online games.[/QUOTE]
I don't know whether you're a male gamer or not, so not sure what perspective to put this in. I'll choose the best one I can - a male gamer, as that is me.
Have you ever been called a faggot online? A nerd? A dweeb? Some Counter Strike guy said he was gonna rape your mother? Etc, etc, ad infinitum.
If you've been gaming for any time, I bet you have. I also bet you didn't make a big deal out of it. You just moved on with your life.
[QUOTE=Jithvan;47158260]How about player models without secondary sexual characteristics and genitals? xD[/QUOTE]
I don't think the issue is specifically exposed genitalia.
[editline]17th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=withnail;47158629]I don't know whether you're a male gamer or not, so not sure what perspective to put this in. I'll choose the best one I can - a male gamer, as that is me.
Have you ever been called a faggot online? A nerd? A dweeb? Some Counter Strike guy said he was gonna rape your mother? Etc, etc, ad infinitum.
If you've been gaming for any time, I bet you have. I also bet you didn't make a big deal out of it. You just moved on with your life.[/QUOTE]
I am a male gamer. Typically when I am confronted with players that use that sort of language whether directed toward myself or I witness someone harassing another player, if possible I report them. If playing games like counter-strike, I stick to servers that are typically more mature and have policies in place for this type of behavior. Or I run my own servers, and employ the same style of policy.
My wife, however, has quit playing online games because she hates being constantly sexually harassed.
I think Rust should stick with only men. It's more hilarious to watch when naked cavemen chase eachother with rocks while being naked
[QUOTE=utilitron;47158630]My wife, however, has quit playing online games because she hates being constantly sexually harassed.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;EuJzSTNDUGI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuJzSTNDUGI[/video]
I've been waiting for a long time now for this but I am just glad their penises are so small that it's almost like they are women.
I'm okay with that.
[QUOTE=withnail;47159050]-snip-[/QUOTE]
Again, your ignorance shines though on this subject. This isn't hurt feelings. Victims of online abuse/harassment don't stop playing online games because it mad them feel bad. There are very real threats.
Imagine your own scenario. Some Counter Strike guy said he was gonna rape your mother.
Now imagine you leave counterstrike and some one friends you. 3 days later they message you a photo they got off your brother's facebook wall of your mother photo-shopped to look like she is being raped.
So you block them. So they use the tag photo option on fb to tag you in a bunch of photos depicting your mom getting raped. Sure the account gets blocked, but the damage is done.
Just because you haven't witnessed the abuse, or aren't aware of the extent it can lead to, doesn't mean it's some joke. You seem to think that this type of behavior is isolated, and rare? It isn't. It is an epidemic. It goes well beyond simple name calling. There are real-world issues at hand.
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