Rust Seasons and Weather - Rust

[QUOTE=ej2009;43164068]Wow, this is pretty impressive! Did fps dropped a lot when you've transitioned to winter?[/QUOTE] Nope, ran in constant time. The only fps drop was during the day/night transition, and that's because the demo was recorded on a pretty bad graphics card.

[QUOTE=ej2009;43164068]Wow, this is pretty impressive! Did fps dropped a lot when you've transitioned to winter? Something like this would be amazing in Rust. [editline]13th December 2013[/editline] Sorry, my bad, somehow missed his posts! :( Sad, but he confirmed what I was afraid of, seasons are not a simple task as one might think it is.[/QUOTE] I have hope, KillaMaaki seems to have some pretty keen knowledge on the inner workings of something of this magnitude. He just might be able to work things over with Max, there is always a chance. [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=KillaMaaki;43166032]Nope, ran in constant time. The only fps drop was during the day/night transition, and that's because the demo was recorded on a pretty bad graphics card.[/QUOTE] Speak of the devil, way to ninja me while I was posting! :v: what card were you using?

I was using an NVidia GT 440. Now using a Radeon HD 7790. The slowdown was caused by rendering in Forward mode, which caused an explosion in the number of draw calls while both the sun and moon are casting light at the same time. One thing I don't know about is exactly how they've customized their shaders. I believe they had to do heavy customization in order to get/simulate double precision matrices so they can have such a large world. I don't know what the actual implications of that would be, but I wouldn't think it would have a big impact since most of the work for seasonal/weather effects is in the fragment shader. It's also possible they're barely scraping in under the instruction limit, depending on what shader model they use for their shaders, in which case that makes things much harder (if they're using SM 3.0 I doubt it).

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;43166324]I was using an NVidia GT 440. Now using a Radeon HD 7790. The slowdown was caused by rendering in Forward mode, which caused an explosion in the number of draw calls while both the sun and moon are casting light at the same time. One thing I don't know about is exactly how they've customized their shaders. I believe they had to do heavy customization in order to get/simulate double precision matrices so they can have such a large world. I don't know what the actual implications of that would be, but I wouldn't think it would have a big impact since most of the work for seasonal/weather effects is in the fragment shader. It's also possible they're barely scraping in under the instruction limit, depending on what shader model they use for their shaders, in which case that makes things much harder (if they're using SM 3.0 I doubt it).[/QUOTE] English please? :v: I am about as computer-illiterate as they come, software-wise.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43166559]English please? :v: I am about as computer-illiterate as they come, software-wise.[/QUOTE] Basically "a lot of stuff they're doing seems really unoptimized right now, and it feels like they're just barely scraping past the limits of the engine because of how they programmed certain things". Disappointed to hear that seasonal stuff probably won't be added. Not enough survival games have the environment as a threat imo.

Concerning the slowdown: A draw call is one single draw command sent to the GPU. For each light hitting an object, it has to be drawn an additional time (unless you're using Deferred Rendering, which basically draws individual components of a scene and then generates lighting for it all in one go). So if you have a large scene, that's already a lot of draw calls - if you then add another light, you get twice the draw calls. More draw calls = slow rendering. Concerning shaders: Your standard decimal value is 32 bits and is called a float. Unity uses floats to represent position. Floats only have so much space to store value, so you run into precision problems with very high (positive) or very low (negative) numbers. This precision affects the effectively usable space in your game world, I think to around 10km x 10km before you lose too much precision. You can double the size of these to 64 bits, and these are called (unimaginatively) doubles. This increases the usable size of your game world, but Unity is not set up to use them, so you basically have to hack the rendering system in order to do so (which is what they did in order to support the 16km x 16km Rust island). Shaders (used to change how the GPU renders a draw call) have a maximum number of instructions they can contain. This depends on shader models (general trend being that the limit increases with each new shader model). [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ZestyLemons;43166650]Basically "a lot of stuff they're doing seems really unoptimized right now, and it feels like they're just barely scraping past the limits of the engine because of how they programmed certain things".[/QUOTE] That's not at all what I said ;)

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;43166657]Concerning the slowdown: A draw call is one single draw command sent to the GPU. For each light hitting an object, it has to be drawn an additional time (unless you're using Deferred Rendering, which basically draws individual components of a scene and then generates lighting for it all in one go). So if you have a large scene, that's already a lot of draw calls - if you then add another light, you get twice the draw calls. More draw calls = slow rendering. Concerning shaders: Your standard decimal value is 32 bits and is called a float. Unity uses floats to represent position. Floats only have so much space to store value, so you run into precision problems with very high (positive) or very low (negative) numbers. This precision affects the effectively usable space in your game world, I think to around 10km x 10km before you lose too much precision. You can double the size of these to 64 bits, and these are called (unimaginatively) doubles. This increases the usable size of your game world, but Unity is not set up to use them, so you basically have to hack the rendering system in order to do so (which is what they did in order to support the 16km x 16km Rust island). Shaders (used to change how the GPU renders a draw call) have a maximum number of instructions they can contain. This depends on shader models (general trend being that the limit increases with each new shader model). [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] That's not at all what I said ;)[/QUOTE] Not to sound ignorant, but doesn't this mean that they could get better performance if they downscaled the map a bit? If so, why wouldn't they? We aren't even using the whole island, so the other half doesn't really serve much of a purpose.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43166864]Not to sound ignorant, but doesn't this mean that they could get better performance if they downscaled the map a bit? If so, why wouldn't they? We aren't even using the whole island, so the other half doesn't really serve much of a purpose.[/QUOTE] Depends on how they handle map loading and displaying it (I think draw distances are a bit more important here). I heard at one point they were going to downscale the map to 8km x 8km (instead of the current 16km x 16km) and expand the actual usable space (resources and spawns) to the entire map rather than a small portion. In that case, they wouldn't need the extra precision.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;43166324]One thing I don't know about is exactly how they've customized their shaders. I believe they had to do heavy customization in order to get/simulate double precision matrices so they can have such a large world.[/QUOTE] yup!

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;43168477]yup![/QUOTE] Well, if you are certain this will not work, I will let this die now, thanks for at least responding and filling us in :smile: keep up the good work, feel free to lock this now if you want, it has served its purpose.

This is a very great idea and it's a shame it died so don't mind me reviving it a bit ^^ hehe But anyway, devs said they don't have any plans for this but... Even if it doesn't go into as great detail with clothes and animals *yet* i think season affecting the spawn rate of animals is a great idea, Making winter spawning wolfs instead of deers and pigs so that gathering food is more costly but we would need to make it so that new players don't have issues Clothes could be done later and it wouldn't be that hard as you already have a small warmth system *Lets dumb this down a little, It had tons of great features but lets just take it in bites* Devs when your game is more clean with bugs patches and stability sorted + bits of content u want in the game just have a basic season system added where in this season (day = xxmin / night = xxmin) and leave it at that for now? just so you have it there and then just go from there in the future and add like (SeasonX = *X animals spawn chance = X, etc, etc*)

[QUOTE=jjplay175;43346843]This is a very great idea and it's a shame it died so don't mind me reviving it a bit ^^ hehe But anyway, devs said they don't have any plans for this but... Even if it doesn't go into as great detail with clothes and animals *yet* i think season affecting the spawn rate of animals is a great idea, Making winter spawning wolfs instead of deers and pigs so that gathering food is more costly but we would need to make it so that new players don't have issues Clothes could be done later and it wouldn't be that hard as you already have a small warmth system *Lets dumb this down a little, It had tons of great features but lets just take it in bites* Devs when your game is more clean with bugs patches and stability sorted + bits of content u want in the game just have a basic season system added where in this season (day = xxmin / night = xxmin) and leave it at that for now? just so you have it there and then just go from there in the future and add this season *X animals spawn chance = X, etc, etc*[/QUOTE] While I requested this not be resurrected, I do feel that at least that part could use a second opinion, it would certainly add some variety.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43346857]While I requested this not be resurrected, I do feel that at least that part could use a second opinion, it would certainly add some variety.[/QUOTE] yeh, I just feel that a little season system would add a great feel to the game and really make it feel like a fully polished game in the future, I get a smile just thinking about seasons in the future of RUST

[QUOTE=jjplay175;43346875]yeh, I just feel that a little season system would add a great feel to the game and really make it feel like a fully polished game in the future, I get a smile just thinking about seasons in the future in RUST[/QUOTE] Me too, and almost 100 people seem to also agree. Hopefully in the future we will get even a VERY basic seasonal system, it could really spice things up.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43346916]Me too, and almost 100 people seem to also agree. Hopefully in the future we will get even a VERY basic seasonal system, it could really spice things up.[/QUOTE] Agreed, even with a minimal climate change system it would make Rust that much more immersive! Main features I'd like to see from climate change: -Change to animal AI during different seasons -Each season having different amount of gatherable food sources -Each season has effects on day/night cycles -Surrounding change depending on the season. i.e. fall the leaves turn color and fall, winter it snows, etc. -Each season has an effect on how quickly one can heal depending on comfort levels provided for certain clothing, etc. -Overheating or frostbite effects depending on the seasonal effects! I really like this idea! I think with the core elements implemented initially, its a doable task. For a developer focused on a realistic survival game, it is a must, nay it is a basic requirement!

[QUOTE=iAbstract;43347143]Agreed, even with a minimal climate change system it would make Rust that much more immersive! Main features I'd like to see from climate change: -Change to animal AI during different seasons -Each season having different amount of gatherable food sources -Each season has effects on day/night cycles -Surrounding change depending on the season. i.e. fall the leaves turn color and fall, winter it snows, etc. -Each season has an effect on how quickly one can heal depending on comfort levels provided for certain clothing, etc. -Overheating or frostbite effects depending on the seasonal effects! I really like this idea! I think with the core elements implemented initially, its a doable task. For a developer focused on a realistic survival game, it is a must, nay it is a basic requirement![/QUOTE] The argument against part of it was performance impact. What would you think about, on lower graphical settings, only having, like, snow on the ground, or leaves on the ground for winter and fall, respectively, and not having snow falling or leaves falling?

One thing I am surprised hasn't been mentioned with such a major thing as seasons is a planet's equinoxes and solstices. It'd allow for a very awesome, vibrant sky with star constellations and distant stellar objects. Which would also mean people could use the stars as a guide when they're running around in pitch black dark.

This needs to be added to push this to the greatest survival game of all time :P [QUOTE=jonnymad;43347217]The argument against part of it was performance impact. What would you think about, on lower graphical settings, only having, like, snow on the ground, or leaves on the ground for winter and fall, respectively, and not having snow falling or leaves falling?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43347217]The argument against part of it was performance impact. What would you think about, on lower graphical settings, only having, like, snow on the ground, or leaves on the ground for winter and fall, respectively, and not having snow falling or leaves falling?[/QUOTE] While it is a reasonable argument to say a climate system is a "performance impact", it is no reason that holds true weight for denying the implementation of a function in a game based on realistic survival. When it comes to a lower graphical setting, all that would be required is to do a low-poly model of each element, i.e. snow, rain, leaves, clouds; and have those options un-tickable in the graphical options window for those with a pc from 10 years ago xD. Furthermore, the only real advantage players would get in each season would be a few sound/graphical effects such as: leaves rustling, crunching of snow, or tracks in the snow; as a few sound effects don't have a large impact on CPU or none when it comes to players with a separate soundcard... it is also unreasonable to deny this addition for an "unfair advantage" that is seen by quite a few players as necessary.

[QUOTE=Essentiality;43347649]One thing I am surprised hasn't been mentioned with such a major thing as seasons is a planet's equinoxes and solstices. It'd allow for a very awesome, vibrant sky with star constellations and distant stellar objects. Which would also mean people could use the stars as a guide when they're running around in pitch black dark.[/QUOTE] That would be literally the coolest thing. Hell, you could craft a telescope and look at the night sky for constellations.

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43347217]The argument against part of it was performance impact. What would you think about, on lower graphical settings, only having, like, snow on the ground, or leaves on the ground for winter and fall, respectively, and not having snow falling or leaves falling?[/QUOTE] How about in winter add like a snowy white kind of layer on your screen when you are outside it just gets a bit thicker so the entire world looks cold, it own't put a big drain on pc and will give you a cold affect but make it so that if someone is in comfort *fire* there is no layer Also snow/leaves on floor wouldn't be that hard... its just an extra layer and make it an option, People can turn grass off so let people turn snow layer or leaf layer off This will give the game a great feel and look / it won't be that hard and it won't be that draining will it?

[QUOTE=jonnymad;43347720]That would be literally the coolest thing. Hell, you could craft a telescope and look at the night sky for constellations.[/QUOTE] I can see it now! People screaming and yelling in chat not about being raided and pillaged for all of their belongings, but smashed over the head with a rock while they were busy looking through a telescope from the mountains.

I read earlier about the animals having different A.I. in the winter. Make it so the wolfs hunt in packs in the winter.

[QUOTE=SomethingNoob;43347907]I read earlier about the animals having different A.I. in the winter. Make it so the wolfs hunt in packs in the winter.[/QUOTE] That would be awesome. You would either get an epic score of meat, cloth, and blood, or you get torn to shreds by ravenous wolves, that would be AWESOME. Well, except for the guy who gets torn open :v:

[QUOTE=jonnymad;42577340]So there was a thread a few days ago (see [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1315355&p=42539497"]here[/URL]) where the idea was posed that rust have seasons. The thread is pretty much dead now, but I would like to remake it into a comprehensive list with some more ideas added in, feel free to add in what you want, and feel free even to tell me it won't work, just try not to be an inconsiderate jerk :smile: SPRING Spring is a time where winter is finally dying off. Snow melts, flowers and plants grow, and trees bud again. -Animals are just coming out of hibernation, this is time to kill animals and collect your resources for the coming year. -Make bushes grow berries during the springtime, where they can be plucked off and eaten in an emergency, or stockpiled for later use. Watch out for the poisonous ones! -Weather: Rainy, thunderstorms, flooding in serious downpours; also sunny to partly cloudy. -Optimal clothing: dress warm, things can get wet. -Days are getting longer SUMMER Summer is when things start to heat up. Trees and plants are in full bloom, everything looks beautiful, but damn is it hot! -Animals move slightly faster now that things are warmer, be ready for a good chase! -Berries are harder to find. -Weather: Warm to hot, very few rainy days. Droughts and low water causes things to dry out, watch out for forest fires! -Optimal clothing: Dress light, you don't want to overheat. -Days are at their longest length FALL Summer is coming to a close, things are starting to cool down, plants are wilting, and trees are shedding their leaves. -Animals are more abundant, searching frantically for food to eat for the upcoming winter hibernation, good time to get some cloth and meat. -Bushes no longer bear any berries, but mushrooms can be found on the ground, again, careful of the poisonous ones! -Weather: Cloudy, sometimes rainy, sunny on occasion -Crunchy leaves on the ground, make sure you don't attract too much attention to yourself! -Optimal clothing: dress warm. -Days are getting shorter, don't get caught in the dark! WINTER Winter sucks. There's the snow and the fun that comes with it, but it's fucking cold. You don't want to get caught outside, trust me. -Animals are extremely scarce. Bears are hibernating, rabbits are hibernating, deer are hibernating chickens are dead from the cold, and god knows where the pigs are. The only things you are gonna find are stragglers. That, and wolves. Watch your back! -No food in sight on bushes or the ground. -Weather: Snow as far as the eye can see. It comes down lightly for the most part, but don't get caught in a blizzard, or you will most certainly die. -Watch out for snow, you leave footprints! - Optimal clothing: Dress very heavy, cold is most nasty this time of year. -Days are at their shortest. Might want to spend most of your days inside. -For those adventurers, water will be frozen over, feel free to go ice fishing or traverse to islands open only one time a year for some good looting opportunities. Watch out for thin ice! You fall in, you will go into shock and drown. OTHER NON-WEATHER RELATED PHENOMENA -Earthquake: Mostly cosmetic, varying in severity. Big ones can cause damage to buildings, be careful! -Volcanic Eruption: the island is quite mountainous. This wouldn't be a full on eruption, per se, but will have lava flow (don't get too close,) along with ash and smoke that blocks out the sun and darkens the sky. This is an extremely rare occurrence. -Meteorites. A slightly less (though still quite rare) occurrence where a meteor falls to earth. Don't get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. It hits very hard into the ground causing a shockwave that does a large amount of damage to nearby structures, and completely demolishes EVERYTHING in an extremely tight radius. The meteorite can be mined for a VERY large amount of metal and stone, plus some other metals, should more be added into the game -Aurora Borealis: for those who have no idea what that is, think "sky glitch," it is an atmospheric phenomena I don't know much about, but it's basically a flickering rainbow light show, so to speak. Purely aesthetic, but would be awesome to look at through a window in the middle of the night, and potentially could help with navigation, if you can direct someone towards the direction of the lights or whatever. So that's the list I've got, feel free to comment and add your own ideas, thanks! :dance: EDIT I got a few more ideas I would love to get some feedback on. What would be really useful is a "weather" icon or area on the HUD, where you have an icon indicating the day's overall weather patterns, as well as a temperature gauge indicating the high temperature and low temperature of the day (allowing it to be picked in either Fahrenheit or Celsius in the settings menu) Additionally, there should be conditions only suffered under set weather/temperature parameters. For example, at a certain temperature and lower, you will be "cold" or "freezing," some mid-range temperatures, and at really high temperatures, an "overheating" status where if you don't change out your armor for a lighter type, you will lose calories faster than normal ("sweating.") That way it doesn't get overpowered nor force people to change out armor, but it makes you decide which is more important, having enough food, or being cautious about being shot. More to come when I think of it, if you have any other ideas on this matter, I would love to hear it as well![/QUOTE] This is a glorious idea, for sure, not sure about Earthquakes though, could be fairly annoying building a huge fort, then having a natural disaster wreck it.. realistic though! good idea!

[QUOTE=blirg;43348261]This is a glorious idea, for sure, not sure about Earthquakes though, could be fairly annoying building a huge fort, then having a natural disaster wreck it.. realistic though! good idea![/QUOTE] Well, earthquakes were merely a suggestion, not everything necessarily needs to be agreeable. I just thought it might be cool for an added touch of realism. It doesn't necessarily HAVE to be damaging, just some semi-violent screen shaking.

Make the earthquake go through the middle of the map that starts from the ocean and makes a river, like in that one movie.

[QUOTE=SomethingNoob;43348313]Make the earthquake go through the middle of the map that starts from the ocean and makes a river, like in that one movie.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah! That one movie, the one with the thing and stuff happens! The sequel was much better. :v:

I would say it was called earthquake, that narrows it down to about 500 movies. I believe the sequel had meteorites. Instead of a river add spiders like archnoquake.