[QUOTE=OtherDalfite;45716880]You're arguing that you are not, on a standard viewpoint, cheating. Yet, you get an advantage that other people do not, if they do not choose to. You can't dismiss that you are getting an unfair advantage over other people just because there are some people (usually 1-2 per 40 people on a server) who use cheats that you could never do actually in the game. If the developers didn't want the game to be really dark, they would have implemented a gamma slider, or made it so your eyes adjust to the darkness.
Now, Rust may well be in Vanilla but for some reason you think that dismisses blatant cheating. If the majority of people used 3rd party cheating programs on Rust, and some didn't, would you start cheating too so that way it would be fair? Don't wanna get fucked in the dark? Don't go out in the dark, that's part of the whole survival aspect and why people don't go running around in a forest at night. People can't turn up a gamma slider in real life just so they can not get their shit stolen.
Just because others cheat doesn't mean you should.[/QUOTE]
It really isn't much of a "survival game" any more, it's more a FPS these days which changes a lot.
I don't agree it's cheating when everyone has the choice on a single mousedrag.
It's not 1-2 people that use gamma per server, it's more likely 1-2 people that DON'T which also changes a lot.
Rust isn't in Vanilla, it's in alpha. Vanilla as in vanilla servers mean clean server, unmodded.
That last sentence of yours I already addressed so I'm not doing it again, read it back.
If you really think it's cheating then tell me why it doesn't get you VAC'd and why Garry doesn't intend for people to get VAC'd for it
[QUOTE=Falxhor;45717344]It really isn't much of a "survival game" any more, it's more a FPS these days which changes a lot.
I don't agree it's cheating when everyone has the choice on a single mousedrag.
It's not 1-2 people that use gamma per server, it's more likely 1-2 people that DON'T which also changes a lot.
Rust isn't in Vanilla, it's in alpha. Vanilla as in vanilla servers mean clean server, unmodded.
That last sentence of yours I already addressed so I'm not doing it again, read it back.
If you really think it's cheating then tell me why it doesn't get you VAC'd and why Garry doesn't intend for people to get VAC'd for it[/QUOTE]
Because VAC does not detect changes in gamma. Everyone has the option to go to a cheat forum and download the latest program for aimbotting or whatever it is people do, yet they don't because they know they will either get VAC'd for it, or they simply do not have the desire to use cheats. It is very much a survival game so long as you do not treat it like an FPS. Garry does not intend to ban for it because there is really not a way to detect whether it is turned up, as it's a computer wide setting.
Are you really trying to justify getting an unfair advantage over others [i]isn't[/i] cheating?
[QUOTE=Falxhor;45715597]It's a windows feature... come on.. "I'm a cheater" are you serious? You're going to fucking cry about this when there's thousands of real cheaters out there using aimbots/speedhacks/ESP etc. etc.
Because that's really unproportional, even if this was "cheating" it's on a completely different level. When this game became more an FPS than a survival game for the majority of players (including those on vanilla servers) evening the odds became something normal and I'd even go as far as to say necessary if you want to play at night... I don't even think it's "cheap" when everyone who focusses on FPS'ing people uses it because you'll be at such a big disadvantage at night if you want to do the same..
Sure the argument that just because everyone does it doesn't necessarily make it right for you to do it as well and I know you shouldn't do it according to some ethical points of view. But really guys, it is the last thing in the current Rust you should be crying about.
Dying in Rust has big consequences so decreasing your chances of dying by using a standard windows feature that everyone else uses, to me, seems justified, if you don't wanna get fucked in the dark you don't really have a choice.
It should NOT be Gamma users people should be frustrated about when there's so many bigger game breaking issues.
I agree it would be best if Gamma wouldn't have influences on whether or not you can see in the dark and I hope they work on this for the new Rust.[/QUOTE]
Not really crying. I don't care if you do it. I'm just saying at least have the balls to admit it's cheating.
I can see why you guys think it's cheating and after some thinking I guess I'll admit that it's not 100% legit since it does give you an advantage.
However, I would never call it cheating, it's the last thing in Rust I would get mad over if someone does it to get an advantage on me, considering all the other cheats that are way way worse, hell even some glitches are worse than "gammacheating".
In general when looking at the definition of the word "cheat" I guess this falls under the category yes, but in the context of gamma in Rust I think it doesn't fit in the same category as aimbot/speedhack/etc.
I also think that the reason why people do it matters a lot to whether you should really call it cheating or not. There's a difference between cheating because you want to get the advantage over the majority of players or "cheating" because you want to even the odds with the majority of your fellow players.
Sure, just because others cheat you shouldn't, but can you not see why in this case it's a different thing?
You all need to get the idea of, hurrr! gamma iz hakz xddd out of your dense heads.
Saged, reported, hidden, called the cops, called the Fire Department, called pizza hut, called the USN, called the Royal Navy, called the Red Army, called the FBI. called the CIA, called Interpol, called the KGB, called the USMC, called the USAF, called the Royal Air force, called MI 6, called Scotland Yard, called the US National Guard of every state, called NYPD, called Obama, called the Queen, called Putin, called David Cameron, called every Governor of every US State, used my time phone to call Winston Church hill, As well as Hitler, Stalin, Theodore Roosevelt, George Washington, Montezuma, ever Caesar, and Gilgamesh, called US Army, called British Army in every era, called every phone sexline, called papa john's, called the US Coast Guard, called my State Senators, called my Senators, called every republican in the US, called Dr. Who, called the Pope, called my local Gang lords, called the State Patrol of ever state west of the Mississippi, called all of my local news channels, called Star Fleet, called The Sun, called The national enquirer, called CNN, called Scot Pelly, called Steven Colbert, called half of the Mexican Drug Cartels, called Nintendo, called the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, called the head of the Illuminati, called ever free mason, called bilderberg, called my neighbors, called the mayor of ever city in France, called my mom, called the Emperor of Man, and called every school district in Canada.
Tastyslug said it best. Getting killed from 70+ meters away changed my opinion awfully quickly.
[QUOTE=Falxhor;45718907]I can see why you guys think it's cheating and after some thinking I guess I'll admit that it's not 100% legit since it does give you an advantage.
However, I would never call it cheating, it's the last thing in Rust I would get mad over if someone does it to get an advantage on me, considering all the other cheats that are way way worse, hell even some glitches are worse than "gammacheating".
In general when looking at the definition of the word "cheat" I guess this falls under the category yes, but in the context of gamma in Rust I think it doesn't fit in the same category as aimbot/speedhack/etc.
I also think that the reason why people do it matters a lot to whether you should really call it cheating or not. There's a difference between cheating because you want to get the advantage over the majority of players or "cheating" because you want to even the odds with the majority of your fellow players.
Sure, just because others cheat you shouldn't, but can you not see why in this case it's a different thing?[/QUOTE]
It may not be as bad as aimbot, super jump, or anything else that defies the laws of physics in Rust.
However, raising your gamma is:
A)A third party alteration of your perception of the game.
B)A way to get an unfair advantage over someone.
I can see that this case may be slightly different, but it is still blatantly playing unfairly. Even in the context of Rust, the night is supposed to be dark and dangerous. Being able to see clearly ruins that. The reason they do it is so they can either navigate, defend, or attack something more easily. No matter what, upping your gamma so you can see clearly is still playing unfairly, ie: cheating.
I use gamma adjustment in rust legacy, and with my new deathadder mouse will be programming inventory and speak in game on buttons.
Im a filthy cheat.
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45716545]Try running around at night on a high pop server with gamma turned up.
I think the number of people you'll see who are clearly using gamma themselves will be quite eye-opening...[/QUOTE]
I'm a bit late now, but if you paid attention to my post that you quoted you would see that it said "when I played the nights were pitch black"
Raising the gamma before they put the new skybox in legacy didn't do a damn thing. It made the screen white because everything was black. Now you can at least sort of make things out at night so the gamma actually makes things visible.
So yes. No one used raised gamma at the time because it was useless. I can only hope that the devs add some sort of visual occlusion (like fog, or a particle effect) or simply bring back pitch black nights. It was way more fun to sneak around in pitch black in a little group anyways... being smart about turning your lights on and having a vague idea of where you're going even in the total dark.
Now the game is basically easy mode since "everyone is doing it" is the norm. People bitch about pillarcading and then start doing it because everyone else is. Same with sleeping bag glitches and building inside rocks and about a year ago it was duping items.
Just because "everyone else is doing it" doesn't make it any less of a cheat, you just lower yourself to their level.
Sievers,yeah I've played the game where gamma,sleepin bagging,door holding etc. didn't exist and yes that was the best time I've had while playing the game however you have to understand that rust as you remember it is gone. You can't blame people for evening the play field with other players using gamma. Yeah sure a lot of people consider it to be cheating but when u think about it its either use gamma and play the game at night or stay in your base afk until day comes OR go run in the dark and pray to god that someone doesn't spot u and takes away X amount of minutes of your time spent collecting the gear. People simply don't have a choice if they wanna enjoy the game.
[QUOTE=Gragos;45732335]Sievers,yeah I've played the game where gamma,sleepin bagging,door holding etc. didn't exist and yes that was the best time I've had while playing the game however you have to understand that rust as you remember it is gone. You can't blame people for evening the play field with other players using gamma. Yeah sure a lot of people consider it to be cheating but when u think about it its either use gamma and play the game at night or stay in your base afk until day comes OR go run in the dark and pray to god that someone doesn't spot u and takes away X amount of minutes of your time spent collecting the gear. People simply don't have a choice if they wanna enjoy the game.[/QUOTE]
the problem is semantics, but also in perspective. i feel that gamma upping is cheating, but have less of a problem with that then say speedhacks or aimbot. but justifying it by saying you need to do it to compete with other players is a slippery slope.
if i was on a server with lots of hackers, i would not play there anymore, because i will never stoop to that level. it breaks the game by making it too easy. but some people will use that same logic and go become hackers themselves "to sort out the hackers". is there any guarantee that's where they will stop? maybe they get mad at someone for being a good shot, presume they are hacking and turn on their own hacks to raid them. maybe they just like winning so much that they end up with every hack under the sun turned on all the time.
not everyone will progress to more extreme cheats, but it is dangerous not to acknowledge that tweaking gamma so you can see at night is cheating, albeit a mild form. if the devs intended us to see in the dark without a torch acting as a beacon, they would give us night vision goggles inbuilt into the character.
I find its much the same way with the KoS standpoint vs the Fairplay/karma arguments. If you dont KoS you are limiting yourself and will often times pay for it. Its a far reach for an example, but it fits anyway. Take comic books, the villains almost always have the advantage because they have no limits, where the heros actually attempt to keep things fair to some extent.
As i said, its a stretch, but still fits for the most part.
At some points he is right,
Playing without gamma makes you a free kill at night. cuz 90% of a server is using gamma.
That means at night you have to stay inside youre house or be a easy kill for everyone
thats also stupid.
I hope they are working on pixel shower for experimental = Gamma gets useless
There is a noticeable difference in my ability to see at night when playing on my first monitor as opposed to my second monitor.. is playing on the brightest monitor cheating now? I believe that if you can't see at night in Rust your monitor is not properly adjusted.. afterall everything is rendered already but you just may not see it depending on hardware and adjustments. If the devs thought it a problem they could have implemented a kind of dark fog or a render distance I suppose, until then I won't use a torch ever but I will run with my rock after people who do..
Your logic that everyone else is doing it so it must be OK can be used to justify hacks as well, but that doesn't fly, right? Cheating is cheating, regardless of whatever BS reason you come up with and is unacceptable in a MP game.
OP is just "Waaaaaaaaaah, i don't want my survival game to be immersive! thats for faggots. i want night vision! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
While we're at it lets add in killstreaks, and make M4s made for 1 wood and not degrade, cos thats a pet hate when my Rifle is not in perfect condition after killing 20 freshspawns.
and i want regen health, cos thats supa-realistic, medkits are for helf-lyf feggits. an port it to xbox one.
a huge part of survival games is [I]Immersion.[/I] that is kinda ruined when night time is reduced to who can exploit the most, hell when I first played rust, people were afraid to go out in the dark, it presented a real problem, a challenge, you know, those things that they are constantly removing from AAA Games.
and, "aw all teh L337 Hax0rz are doin it! i cn do it to defet teh hackzors!" Well your just part of the problem twat-basket :zoid:
It's like the chief of the defence force going "you know what, F*ck it, lets fly a plane into the tallest building in Iraq, all the terroists are doing it!"
[QUOTE=RagingRooster;45742269]OP is just "Waaaaaaaaaah, i don't want my survival game to be immersive! thats for faggots. i want night vision! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
While we're at it lets add in killstreaks, and make M4s made for 1 wood and not degrade, cos thats a pet hate when my Rifle is not in perfect condition after killing 20 freshspawns.
and i want regen health, cos thats supa-realistic, medkits are for helf-lyf feggits. an port it to xbox one.
a huge part of survival games is [I]Immersion.[/I] that is kinda ruined when night time is reduced to who can exploit the most, hell when I first played rust, people were afraid to go out in the dark, it presented a real problem, a challenge, you know, those things that they are constantly removing from AAA Games.
and, "aw all teh L337 Hax0rz are doin it! i cn do it to defet teh hackzors!" Well your just part of the problem twat-basket :zoid:
It's like the chief of the defence force going "you know what, F*ck it, lets fly a plane into the tallest building in Iraq, all the terroists are doing it!"[/QUOTE]
wow dude chill. yeah OP was dumb but we've come to the concensus it's cheating/not playing fairly.
Yeah, i've just seen a lot of these posts. this place seemed as good as any to vent. :suicide:
[B]we've come to the concensus it's cheating/not playing fairly [/B]
Did we? Granted some did, but my estimate is that 70% of people playing Rust Legacy change gamma settings to improve night vision, and prob a further 20% would if they new or could.
In principle of course I agree, it's a cheat, I do it as I believe the general feeling is that it's ok due to how the game is etc.
They have fixed the gamma work around in the new rust. Quite sneaky too. All fine by me.
"OP was dumb"
Why exactly was I dumb? I have only tried to find help as to why my gamma stoped working which than lead to this massive argument about gamma being cheating or not.
Sure I've been dumb to think anyone on this forum could actually be of help but still I've never said anything about using hacks is like using gamma to even the play field with other players, hacks are something low scrubs use to be better at the game and people who justify usage of hacks by saying "everyone else is using it" are also low scrubs.
Rate me dumb all u want for asking for help,I couldn't give less fucks lol.
[QUOTE=Gragos;45752348]"OP was dumb"
Why exactly was I dumb? I have only tried to find help as to why my gamma stoped working which than lead to this massive argument about gamma being cheating or not.
Sure I've been dumb to think anyone on this forum could actually be of help but still I've never said anything about using hacks is like using gamma to even the play field with other players, hacks are something low scrubs use to be better at the game and people who justify usage of hacks by saying "everyone else is using it" are also low scrubs.
Rate me dumb all u want for asking for help,I couldn't give less fucks lol.[/QUOTE]
I only called you dumb because you resort to a cheap tactic in order to get an advantage in the game. Also if you read the posts you would see that altering the gamma in the new Rust is not possible, or at least not to the extent it once was.
OK, here is my opinion on gamma, now before people get super angry and in a piss pour mood, it is my OPINION you don't have to think the same way. I bought and played Rust December 11, 2013, the day Rust first came out on steam. Since the first day of playing Rust i have turned up my gamma so i could see at night. Now before you say it is an unfair advantage over other players, I don't believe it is simply do to the fact that they can turn they're gamma up to, even without a graphics card (look it up). Also, why do we not have an argument like this over being able to turn your grass off? If you turn your grass off you can see better and (for most people) you get more FPS VS the people who have they're grass on. Isn't that an "Unfair Advantage"? If you say it is not an unfair advantage because turning your grass off is a part of the game you can choose to do, and turning your gamma up isn't a part of the game, than why are they getting rid of the command to turn off grass in the new version of rust? So basically people who are saying Gamma is an exploit, glitch, or even hack wouldn't the same thing go for Grass?
[QUOTE=funnyman7;45753293]OK, here is my opinion on gamma, now before people get super angry and in a piss pour mood, it is my OPINION you don't have to think the same way. I bought and played Rust December 11, 2013, the day Rust first came out on steam. Since the first day of playing Rust i have turned up my gamma so i could see at night. Now before you say it is an unfair advantage over other players, I don't believe it is simply do to the fact that they can turn they're gamma up to, even without a graphics card (look it up). Also, why do we not have an argument like this over being able to turn your grass off? It is the same thing as turning your gamma up. If you turn your grass off you can see better and for most people you get more FPS. A lot of people play with there grass on, So basically it is the same thing as turning your gamma up, right?[/QUOTE]
Gamma does not effect your FPS and grass does. On mid or low end computers turning grass off can make the difference between playable and not. Not an apt comparison.
[QUOTE=TwistedTryce;45753359]Gamma does not effect your FPS and grass does. On mid or low end computers turning grass off can make the difference between playable and not. Not an apt comparison.[/QUOTE]
I edited my original post
[QUOTE=funnyman7;45753293]OK, here is my opinion on gamma, now before people get super angry and in a piss pour mood, it is my OPINION you don't have to think the same way. I bought and played Rust December 11, 2013, the day Rust first came out on steam. Since the first day of playing Rust i have turned up my gamma so i could see at night. Now before you say it is an unfair advantage over other players, I don't believe it is simply do to the fact that they can turn they're gamma up to, even without a graphics card (look it up). Also, why do we not have an argument like this over being able to turn your grass off? If you turn your grass off you can see better and (for most people) you get more FPS VS the people who have they're grass on. Isn't that an "Unfair Advantage"? If you say it is not an unfair advantage because turning your grass off is a part of the game you can choose to do, and turning your gamma up isn't a part of the game, than why are they getting rid of the command to turn off grass in the new version of rust? So basically people who are saying Gamma is an exploit, glitch, or even hack wouldn't the same thing go for Grass?[/QUOTE]
Because you can see people, even with grass on. To some it is annoying and most people aim for the head anyways, so it really doesn't make a difference. Gamma, on the other hand, allows you a super human ability to see through nearly pitch black nights. Upping your gamma completely destroys the use of the torch, which should be enough to show you that you aren't playing the game correctly.
[QUOTE=funnyman7;45753293]Also, why do we not have an argument like this over being able to turn your grass off? If you turn your grass off you can see better and (for most people) you get more FPS VS the people who have they're grass on.[/QUOTE]
FYI on experimental you can't turn grass off and garry won't be adding that capability.
The specific reason grass can be disabled in legacy is because of the performance hit it created. Garry planned to remove the ability to disable it in time when he got the performance under control. However, experimental came first.
[QUOTE=Gragos;45752348]
Rate me dumb all u want for asking for help,I couldn't give less fucks lol.[/QUOTE]
Ok Then, Rated you Dumb. Because you are.
[QUOTE=mrknifey;45715142]you can build a foundation over a sleeping bag in legacy and have an invincible base[/QUOTE]
Think they sorted that one, mate.
[editline]21st August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=mrknifey;45732614]it is dangerous not to acknowledge that tweaking gamma so you can see at night is cheating[/QUOTE]
If a server owner says that gamma is okay on their server, I don't consider it cheating.
There are some things that server owners have told me are okay to do on their server that will make me leave immediately, but gamma doesn't make that list.
[QUOTE=Skinnynaut;45755936]Think they sorted that one, mate.
*snip*
If a server owner says that gamma is okay on their server, I don't consider it cheating.[/QUOTE]
nah, still present in legacy. got curious so i just went and tested it myself, and it is still very much do-able. other ways to do it too, but yeah, not wanting to make them common knowledge any more than they are already.
i agree to some degree about server rules/community customs. some servers disallow/penalise PVP, others offer mods that grant you guns and armour from the get go. but we aren't really talking about that, since its a group of people who agree to play by a certain configuration outside of a "vanilla" config.
if it weren't for VAC, i'm sure there would be "hack" servers where certain hacks were allowed too. as you said, if you don't agree with the way the people you are playing with are playing, leave. to me, although it doesn't fuss me too much that people do it, i still think of it as "cheating", which is why i don't tweak my gamma so i can see at night anymore.
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