PvP Zones & Safe Zones Needed - Rust

The way I see it is this... If the devs are worried about the money, and want to please everyone, it will be implemented.... Casuals bring more money in than other players, there are more of them.... If the devs have the cajones to stick to what they want to do, then we might see a pretty damn good game come out of this ;) Community feedback is always a good thing to listen to, but in the bigger picture, it is their game, and they know where they want to go with it... I want to see a game maker have what it takes to make a game without getting pressured by the noobs, casuals, hardcore, elite, ect...... I really don't have any pros or cons as to safe zones, besides the griefing that happens near them... I wouldn't go near it personally ;) For me it's a personal choice, I just don't have the need for it... But I'm not anyone to tell others that they can't.....

On the Firefall forums I was one of the few players advocating PVP regions... Lets step back and look at the pros and cons of having some safe starter zones within a pvp world. Now I know these areas cant be too resource rich and cant have too much storage or you will have groups powering up in the safe areas and then rushing pvp bases. Lets say the safe zone only has the most basic gear and players have only a small safe storage in that area. What does this accomplish? For starters, other players cant invade your hovel and steal your everything while you are at work or asleep. Yes that means some players will loose the thrill of hammering sleeping players with rocks but is it such a big loss? Next, when a player dies, he might have a bit of equipment left in that small storage. So being killed doesn't mean the loss of everything. That also means gunning down fewer naked guys. I personally wouldn't mind fewer naked guys running around. Finally, something for the PVPers - I know many of you see safe zones as areas where carebears frolic and moon the real hardcore players from behind their gates but remember - they have to come outside sometime. Getting the good gear, building the best e.peen of a fortress still requires taking some risk. Even better, there will be more of these players to shoot at. The frustrations of being killed while asleep and gunned down while naked keep players away from the game. Add a way to ease into the PVP side of things and I think you will find more targets running around. A safe zone would very likely improve the quality of your PVP rather than ruin it.

[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798096] Implement a player level system, so as a level 25 player cannot just run around ganking level 1s and 2s. [/QUOTE] This isnt WoW my comrade.

[QUOTE=dragonbreath;43798363]It doesn't provide emergent gameplay. It's an overused system in mmo games.[/QUOTE] I agree but you can only get kevlar/powerful guns/big medkits from three locations: 1. Rad town boxes 2. zombies 3. air drops When there is a large powerful clan by each of the rad town/zombie locations then anyone starting new in the server will have a very hard time being able to get the items that the large clans have. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Cloth armor + hand canon + no medkits < kevlar + m4 + medkits. It's not fun getting hopelessly outgunned and outnumbered and outarmored and out mekitted when you try to run to a rad town to get a shotgun blueprint or try to kill a zombie siletently at night with a bow to try to get a research kit.

NEW FAST Rust srever, With PVE safe area in Secret Valley, but the rest of map is PVP. Autolocation to find yourself on map. Many other features, please come and look!! To try this new server, open Rust, press F1 and in that console window type "net.connect 107.152.187.138:28165" I believe this server is the best!!!

i also wanna have tab-target, floating name plates,world map, minimap and locked backpacks. ohh wait??!?!?!

Nice to see the constructive part of the thread is over, kids must be getting out of school....

[QUOTE=lewyk13;43802560]Nice to see the constructive part of the thread is over, kids must be getting out of school....[/QUOTE] this thread is destructive on the core gameplay. its only constructive to get more money from them casuals.

I think this is a good idea if it's something the players themselves decide. Once we have the tools in the game to implement such a thing, I say we should do it. Have turrets with an option to shoot ANYONE who attacks someone else, including the creator of the turret. Have "contracts" that players can voluntarily enter into that make them subject to rules set in the contract (such as adhering to a reputation system). Give players the tools and let us decide what's best for us.

[QUOTE=GimmeChicken;43802616]this thread is destructive on the core gameplay. its only constructive to get more money from them casuals.[/QUOTE] And your attitude is destructive to the community. There has to be some compromises, you do realize there are more ot "them casuals" than hardcore/leet/competitive/whatever gamers ..... But you don't really give a crap about anyone elses opinions but your own, or those that agree with you, isn't that about right? I don't really agree with a set safe zone, but i'm open to discuss options instead of trolling..... The CORE gameplay is to survive, any way you can... Not go around KOSing everyone you see... How is that survival? That nekked guy that logged on the server for the first time 2 minutes ago is a huge threat isn't he?

[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798096]Hi All, Long time lurker, first time poster. I don't want to come across as a 12 year old who doesn't think things are fair, but there is a major issue with this game. Let me start by saying I have been gaming from 15+ years. I consider myself a mature gamer and have played everything from C&C to all the Warcraft games (including WoW), COD, BF, Minecraft, etc. To give you some background, I've researched Rust for a while before paying for it. I loved the open world of Minecraft and the survival aspect of this was awesome. Now, according to Steam, I have 35 hours played in this game (in 8 days) and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I've played on official and community servers, PvP and PvE. PvE was enjoyable, but because of limited content, it gets stale. So, I tried PvP. The problem is that everyone wants to kill everyone. And spawn ganking seems to be the norm. For me, I knew to expect this, and wasn't deterred. However, I think I'm going to hang up the towel. It is beyond frustrating to spend time starting out with nothing, gathering materials (which is hard to do on populated servers), only to be ganked by the "server raid crew". What I have seen on every server is that there are bands of people who have EVERYTHING, just running around and killing people. Don't misunderstand me - I am fully aware of the PvP & survival nature of this game. The fact that you lose everything is an added incentive to not do stupid shit. But I'm tired of finally having enough wood to build a shack and getting ganked, being looted, and having to respawn. The ganking isn't the issue - the issue is all these people who have geared up and feel empowered to just kill people. I understand that is the point of the game, but there is a huge fairness issue when someone has every weapon and 100+ rounds for each and just team up and kill spawns. /rant off [U][B]Solutions[/B][/U] Implement "neutral zones" where PvP is disabled. Similar to the towns in WoW, where fighting cannot occur (obv you can't build a shelter in a safe zone) Implement a player level system, so as a level 25 player cannot just run around ganking level 1s and 2s. [U][B]Final Thoughts[/B][/U] I love this game - it is so addictive that I keep starting over and I can't answer why, with how frustrated I am. Make it so that spawns have a fair shot of getting supplies, weapons, and some armor within the first 1-2 days.[/QUOTE] I think you should go back and play WOW my friend. This is a hardcore game not for carebears. I am tired of people coming on Rust and crying about dying. I have been murdered on Rust maybe 600 times. I never give up and throw in the towel... I get smarter. Now for like 8 hours of gaming I die maybe once. You just need to learn how to play the game properly. Don't tell me you know how to play it properly if you are sad about being ganked when you have the mighty wooden shack. lol. Yeah but seriously, Rust is different because it doesn't have safe zones and stupid levels. Please go back to WOW.

Please, no safezones..if you have played any "survival" game with safezones youll know they are pointless. Only thing its added to the games ive played with SZ's, are campers and griefers. we have enough of those already Pvp zones should be doable, but up to the server owner as to where and how they function(if at all). the only time i see a pvp zone being viable is having like a PVE server with an arena or something, and inside the ring its PVP(could host duels/tournaments n such). if it was just a section of the map that you can walk to and once you get to a certain part its PVP, kids would just farm in the pve sections.

[QUOTE=Hellsvien;43802909]I think you should go back and play WOW my friend. This is a hardcore game not for carebears.[/QUOTE] Damn skippy! Rust isn't for Carebears! Just take a look at some of the most popular servers in Rust are advertising... Kevlar/M4s/Airdrop Donation kits, Instacraft, No Sleepers, No Fall Damage, No C4 Crafting, Super Starter Kit, Raid Alerts, Economy plugins so you can buy building materials instead of harvesting for hours, days, weeks, etc. Server admins that have godmode and can spawn whatever they want, kick/ban whoever they want and whenever they want because they paid for it dammit! Tired of server admins who abuse their power? Just rent a server...and then you can abuse your power! Got killed by someone? Just respawn at your house, grab a gun and get some payback! Are they hiding in their fortress? Wait until they're offline then raid them! But...this game is definitely not for Carebears.

Go back to WarZ

[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798096]Hi All, I don't want to come across as a 12 year old who doesn't think things are fair, but [/QUOTE] never go full-derp, bro...

I keep trying to rate this thread as dumb, but cant' because I've already voted. This has happened twice now.

Nah, I don't want anything like that imposed. I just want a sandbox and be able to do what I please in it, not for someone to split it up and force me to abide to a particular set of rules.

If you want safe zones, feel free to play any of the other numerous games that support that type of playstyle. This is a sandbox, based entirely around the threat of other players as the main factor. Open world pvp with player looting simply isn't for everyone, and this is one of those times. The absolute best course of action is for you to move on to another game that supports the (carebear) playstyle you seem to prefer, rather than attempting to transform Rust into something it isn't. Players like this have been ruining good sandbox games for over a decade, just stop.

[QUOTE=JLP;43799715]Interesting that none of you even mentioned the fact that safe zones may backfire horribly. As an equipped, established and KOS-player (which i'm not ;) ), on a a server with a safe zone, i would build my base just outside the zone and wait for people to leave it and then take all the stuff they gathered in complete safety. Thats a raiders DREAM!! once people figure this out: have fun dealing with a ring of bases around the zone! and why should i even try to kill equipped people when all the stuff i need i can get from naked people trying to "start" the game by leaving the zone? much too risky! just my 2 cents[/QUOTE] ^ THIS. READ THIS. I don't play Eve. But I heard there is a "safe zone" in there where people trade. But that turned out to be a "war zone" instead. Safe zone only bring bigger problem. You will never be able to walk outside as everyone have their sniper scope on the exit. ... If you want to play a safer server, go PvE server, + no sleeper if you don't want to get killed while logout but yo will be raided no matter what. Otherwise sorry this game not suit unless learn to adapt.

Majority of the map is a giant safe zone already, PvP zone is acually very small - few rad towns and the road. Set you compass to north - run 15mins, welcome to safe zone.

[QUOTE=digitalifeles;43807426] [B]I don't play Eve.[/B] But I heard there is a "safe zone" in there where people trade. But that turned out to be a "war zone" instead. [/QUOTE] Yeah, you don't...play EVE that is. That's entirely different. It's called "suicide ganking" and it absolutely doesn't apply to this discussion. To break it down simply there are low/high security systems that are patrolled by NPC ships. If you attack another player in one of these systems, the NPC ships will respond and kill you. If players spot a valuable target in a low/high sec system, they or a fleet will attack the target with disposable ships and destroy it. They will get destroyed in the process as well. One of their alts, who did not participate in the attack will go and pick up the loot from the ship they destroyed if they were successful. There are no peace enforcing NPCs in Rust hence there is no correlation.

No, just no. If you are having issues getting ganked then go to a lower pop server... Or you could go to a carebear server that has PvP in zones. With the plugins available there is absolutely no reason for them to implement a system that restricts PvP. At this point in time it's way too easy for server admins to do it. Also @IGotWorms, another Eve player perhaps... I find it funny that people would even attempt to compare Rust to Eve. The only thing in common is dying, that's it.

In for new thread, titled. -Hugs and Handholding Zones needed!- Get your Cuddles here at Rust!

Well - that was interesting. I participate in probably close to a dozen or so forums - and the amount of just blatant, unintelligent flaming on this site is like nothing I've seen. Some of you guys are just ignorant. Anyone capable of reading understood my OP to be a SUGGESTION for others to discuss - not berate the opinions of others. Just because you don't like a suggestion doesn't mean that you have to insult and attack the person giving that opinion. I suspect many of you are the same guys running around and just killing spawns because you can. Sure would seem like it based on the comments of some. If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree. My point is that in doing so, you alienate your game from larger group of PAYING customers. If the devs goal is to create their vision without regard to financial return, great. If their goal is to create a good game and also make a boatload of money, than compromises need to be made. I won't go back and re-quote everyone, but a few hit exactly on the point - "the rich get rich and the poor get poorer". That's absolutely true. Those who have, continue to take more and more from the environment, in their m4/c4 toting clans. This leaves the spawns literally defenseless and running from nooks and crannies trying to hide and praying that they make it thru the night. The problem is that there are FAR too many players and groups who feel the objective of the game is to kill as many newbs as possible and frustrate the shit out of them. See, I thought the objective of the game was survival. Survival to me isn't running around killing everything you see simply because you can. The problem arises with how difficult it can be to collect enough resources to build a basic shelter. Depending on the servers, it can be downright impossible to collect enough resources to even build a 1x1 shelter. And quote honestly, I know i'm not the only one who feels that way, as it has been posted on forums all over the interwebs. So let me try to rephrase my point without just being flamed - currently, I feel that there is a huge barrier to entry for spawns. But this entire discussion is actually irrelevant because NONE of us know where the devs want this to go. If they simply want a money maker, they will need to make changes because casual gamers (who FAR outnumber all you hardcore gamers) are not going to participate. Casual gamers don't have hours upon hours to farm resources, only to have everything stolen each night. That's not fun, no matter what any of you say. It isn't fun to invest time into a game, collecting and gathering, to just have to re-do it constantly. And with that - I'm done. Thanks for listening. PS - all you claiming that I want carebears and cuddle zones are illiterate and incapable of reading comprehension. Your insults just make you look like a clown.

[QUOTE]If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree.[/QUOTE] The FPS/MMO industry is boring enough. Quit making games that use the damn same mechanism. Casual gamer, there is PvE server for you. Hei I casual as well, I played most of my time in PvE. But PvP server aren't really THAT BAD, I tried, I survive, so can you and any casual players. Why can't? What's the problem really? Game is too hard for you and you want the developer to make EASY games to cater the mass market? Damn...

There are no safe zones in real life.

[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43808959]Well - that was interesting. I participate in probably close to a dozen or so forums - and the amount of just blatant, unintelligent flaming on this site is like nothing I've seen. Some of you guys are just ignorant. Anyone capable of reading understood my OP to be a SUGGESTION for others to discuss - not berate the opinions of others. Just because you don't like a suggestion doesn't mean that you have to insult and attack the person giving that opinion. I suspect many of you are the same guys running around and just killing spawns because you can. Sure would seem like it based on the comments of some. If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree. My point is that in doing so, you alienate your game from larger group of PAYING customers. If the devs goal is to create their vision without regard to financial return, great. If their goal is to create a good game and also make a boatload of money, than compromises need to be made. I won't go back and re-quote everyone, but a few hit exactly on the point - "the rich get rich and the poor get poorer". That's absolutely true. Those who have, continue to take more and more from the environment, in their m4/c4 toting clans. This leaves the spawns literally defenseless and running from nooks and crannies trying to hide and praying that they make it thru the night. The problem is that there are FAR too many players and groups who feel the objective of the game is to kill as many newbs as possible and frustrate the shit out of them. See, I thought the objective of the game was survival. Survival to me isn't running around killing everything you see simply because you can. The problem arises with how difficult it can be to collect enough resources to build a basic shelter. Depending on the servers, it can be downright impossible to collect enough resources to even build a 1x1 shelter. And quote honestly, I know i'm not the only one who feels that way, as it has been posted on forums all over the interwebs. So let me try to rephrase my point without just being flamed - currently, I feel that there is a huge barrier to entry for spawns. But this entire discussion is actually irrelevant because NONE of us know where the devs want this to go. If they simply want a money maker, they will need to make changes because casual gamers (who FAR outnumber all you hardcore gamers) are not going to participate. Casual gamers don't have hours upon hours to farm resources, only to have everything stolen each night. That's not fun, no matter what any of you say. It isn't fun to invest time into a game, collecting and gathering, to just have to re-do it constantly. And with that - I'm done. Thanks for listening. PS - all you claiming that I want carebears and cuddle zones are illiterate and incapable of reading comprehension. Your insults just make you look like a clown.[/QUOTE] Yeah, sorry bro, I tried. Intelligent discussion seems pretty hopeless. Thread gets invaded by incoherent nerd rage. I guess maybe someday we'll need to rent threads so we can have admin privileges haha.

GO PLAY COD FFS! No piss ass care bear casual friendly noob shit in this game, thanks.

[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43808959]Well - that was interesting. I participate in probably close to a dozen or so forums - and the amount of just blatant, unintelligent flaming on this site is like nothing I've seen.[/quote] You're right, this forum should be significantly kinder to everyone. I appreciate you setting the example for how to treat each other over a web interface such as this forum here. [quote] Some of you guys are just ignorant. [/quote] DOH! /facepalm [quote]Anyone capable of reading understood my OP to be a SUGGESTION for others to discuss - not berate the opinions of others.[/quote] I've read through this thread and found quite the discussion. Mostly disagreeing with your suggestions and providing plenty of examples. [quote] Just because you don't like a suggestion doesn't mean that you have to insult and attack the person giving that opinion.[/quote] [B]Above is Example 1[/B] [quote] I suspect many of you are the same guys running around and just killing spawns because you can. Sure would seem like it based on the comments of some. If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree. My point is that in doing so, you alienate your game from larger group of PAYING customers. If the devs goal is to create their vision without regard to financial return, great. If their goal is to create a good game and also make a boatload of money, than compromises need to be made.[/quote] I'm unsure of how frequently you participate in Alpha's/Beta's. It could be often, but what you seem to create is a divide between making the game that they ENVISION, and making a game that a lot of people want to play. I don't think that making a game easier necessarily makes it better. Your suggestions have been to make the game easier for new people. That is the core of what you want. What you said however was "I've been ganked and robbed a lot and I think there should be safe zones". [quote]I won't go back and re-quote everyone, but a few hit exactly on the point - "the rich get rich and the poor get poorer". That's absolutely true. Those who have, continue to take more and more from the environment, in their m4/c4 toting clans. This leaves the spawns literally defenseless and running from nooks and crannies trying to hide and praying that they make it thru the night.[/quote] Cold, naked, afraid.... sounds like a survival game to me? [quote] The problem is that there are FAR too many players and groups who feel the objective of the game is to kill as many newbs as possible and frustrate the shit out of them. See, I thought the objective of the game was survival. Survival to me isn't running around killing everything you see simply because you can.[/quote] Survival is running around trying to avoid all the people who are out there to kill you whenever they can. Right now, to increase the frequency of EVERYTHING being tested, this game is using about 10% of the map as well as significantly increased amounts of high end resources with low cost. There also is NOTHING ELSE TO DO IN THE GAME. Build a base, build weapons, go kill people. That's it. Guess what, that is alpha. There will be more to come. [quote]The problem arises with how difficult it can be to collect enough resources to build a basic shelter. Depending on the servers, it can be downright impossible to collect enough resources to even build a 1x1 shelter. And quote honestly, I know i'm not the only one who feels that way, as it has been posted on forums all over the interwebs.[/quote] Yep, that would have been a good OP. [quote]So let me try to rephrase my point without just being flamed - currently, I feel that there is a huge barrier to entry for spawns. But this entire discussion is actually irrelevant because NONE of us know where the devs want this to go. If they simply want a money maker, they will need to make changes because casual gamers (who FAR outnumber all you hardcore gamers) are not going to participate. Casual gamers don't have hours upon hours to farm resources, only to have everything stolen each night. That's not fun, no matter what any of you say. It isn't fun to invest time into a game, collecting and gathering, to just have to re-do it constantly.[/quote] You bring up a couple good points (to discuss). 1. Casual gamer vs. Hardcore gamer: If you pander to the casual gamer, your game will fail. Guaranteed, 100%, no questions asked. Pander to only the hardcore gamer, and your game won't necessarily fail, but it won't be as successful as it could be. So, I'd lean to keep your focus more on your core group of people who play it the most, and make it inviting to others to try. 2. Barrier to entry exists. No one argues that point. Then again, it's alpha. [quote]And with that - I'm done. Thanks for listening. PS - all you claiming that I want carebears and cuddle zones are illiterate and incapable of reading comprehension. Your insults just make you look like a clown.[/QUOTE] HEY NOW, I knew [B]Example 1[/B] was going to come in handy. Might want to read through that again.

[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798096] [U][B]Solutions[/B][/U] Implement "neutral zones" where PvP is disabled. Similar to the towns in WoW, where fighting cannot occur (obv you can't build a shelter in a safe zone) Implement a player level system, so as a level 25 player cannot just run around ganking level 1s and 2s. [/QUOTE] I totally disagree with that! That would make the game just another standard shitty game. Rust is different and a little bit difficult. But I love this game for this reason. BUT. I can Agree with your problems. Your solution would bring new problems to the game. I think a better Solution is to support players building up Communitys. Some Menue for Clans or something else. And something more for stealth gaming. The main thing of a good game is to handle such problems by depth in the game mechanic. The game must give you the choice of doing the right. If you have ONLY this one way and its blocked by other players (raiding, etc.) than is the solution in adding new ways of surviving by avoiding the other players as long as possible. Not by forbidden options like a safe zone. … damn I should improve my english a little bit xD