@PoppinHeads- do you feel that a safe zone would still be necessary once resources are spread across the entire island? It seems to me that when that happens, both sides to this debate could get what they want.
To me "Safe Zone" conjures up just one horribly awful memory...THE WAR Z!
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43808959]Well - that was interesting. I participate in probably close to a dozen or so forums - and the amount of just blatant, unintelligent flaming on this site is like nothing I've seen. Some of you guys are just ignorant. Anyone capable of reading understood my OP to be a SUGGESTION for others to discuss - not berate the opinions of others. Just because you don't like a suggestion doesn't mean that you have to insult and attack the person giving that opinion. I suspect many of you are the same guys running around and just killing spawns because you can. Sure would seem like it based on the comments of some.
If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree. My point is that in doing so, you alienate your game from larger group of PAYING customers. If the devs goal is to create their vision without regard to financial return, great. If their goal is to create a good game and also make a boatload of money, than compromises need to be made.
I won't go back and re-quote everyone, but a few hit exactly on the point - "the rich get rich and the poor get poorer". That's absolutely true. Those who have, continue to take more and more from the environment, in their m4/c4 toting clans. This leaves the spawns literally defenseless and running from nooks and crannies trying to hide and praying that they make it thru the night. The problem is that there are FAR too many players and groups who feel the objective of the game is to kill as many newbs as possible and frustrate the shit out of them. See, I thought the objective of the game was survival. Survival to me isn't running around killing everything you see simply because you can.
The problem arises with how difficult it can be to collect enough resources to build a basic shelter. Depending on the servers, it can be downright impossible to collect enough resources to even build a 1x1 shelter. And quote honestly, I know i'm not the only one who feels that way, as it has been posted on forums all over the interwebs.
So let me try to rephrase my point without just being flamed - currently, I feel that there is a huge barrier to entry for spawns. But this entire discussion is actually irrelevant because NONE of us know where the devs want this to go. If they simply want a money maker, they will need to make changes because casual gamers (who FAR outnumber all you hardcore gamers) are not going to participate. Casual gamers don't have hours upon hours to farm resources, only to have everything stolen each night. That's not fun, no matter what any of you say. It isn't fun to invest time into a game, collecting and gathering, to just have to re-do it constantly.
And with that - I'm done. Thanks for listening.
PS - all you claiming that I want carebears and cuddle zones are illiterate and incapable of reading comprehension. Your insults just make you look like a clown.[/QUOTE]
Yea bud, I was TRYING to get some actual discussion on here, and it worked for about five minutes yesterday... But the trolls will troll and most aren't intellegent to do anything besides call names, and say witty things like "go play something else then".
It's amazing the level of bigotry an intollerance this thread alone has shown.
If you don't play the game how THEY want you to, too bad, go play something else.
How dare you make suggestions... period
Your suggestions are imposing a certain playstyle, but their demand of how you should play isn't???????
And when they don't have anything constructive, they have to chime in with name calling and flaming..
Congrats folks, I have been a part of numerous forums, this is far by the biggest collection of trolls and assclowns that I have ever seen with a couple of people struggling to actually have real conversations.
too many kids around
[QUOTE=lewyk13;43810139]..... the trolls will troll.... and most aren't intelligent...[/quote]
[quote]And when they don't have anything constructive, they have to chime in with name calling and flaming.[/quote]
[quote]...trolls and assclowns...[/QUOTE]
*cough cough*
[QUOTE=Valorx;43810220]*cough cough*[/QUOTE]
If you are going to use quotes, use the entire thing, and keep it in context... Please look over the thread, I have tried multiple times to engage people in actual discussion, sometimes by baiting them yes, but with reason.
Yes, I called a group of people a name, so what? I'll admit, probably not the best way to get my point across, I let my emotions get the better of me, so I apologize if I hurt your feelgoods.....
I just wanted to point out the hypocritical nature of someone like the OP going after people who plainly stated they don't agree with his suggestion.
There's been enough feedback as to why this is not a good idea, that I think the intent of the thread was accomplished, but people get so butthurt that others are "mean" on the internet. As they say in the movies, I'm just keepin it real.
[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43808959]Well - that was interesting. I participate in probably close to a dozen or so forums - and the amount of just blatant, unintelligent flaming on this site is like nothing I've seen. Some of you guys are just ignorant. Anyone capable of reading understood my OP to be a SUGGESTION for others to discuss - not berate the opinions of others. Just because you don't like a suggestion doesn't mean that you have to insult and attack the person giving that opinion. I suspect many of you are the same guys running around and just killing spawns because you can. Sure would seem like it based on the comments of some.
If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree. My point is that in doing so, you alienate your game from larger group of PAYING customers. If the devs goal is to create their vision without regard to financial return, great. If their goal is to create a good game and also make a boatload of money, than compromises need to be made.
I won't go back and re-quote everyone, but a few hit exactly on the point - "the rich get rich and the poor get poorer". That's absolutely true. Those who have, continue to take more and more from the environment, in their m4/c4 toting clans. This leaves the spawns literally defenseless and running from nooks and crannies trying to hide and praying that they make it thru the night. The problem is that there are FAR too many players and groups who feel the objective of the game is to kill as many newbs as possible and frustrate the shit out of them. See, I thought the objective of the game was survival. Survival to me isn't running around killing everything you see simply because you can.
The problem arises with how difficult it can be to collect enough resources to build a basic shelter. Depending on the servers, it can be downright impossible to collect enough resources to even build a 1x1 shelter. And quote honestly, I know i'm not the only one who feels that way, as it has been posted on forums all over the interwebs.
So let me try to rephrase my point without just being flamed - currently, I feel that there is a huge barrier to entry for spawns. But this entire discussion is actually irrelevant because NONE of us know where the devs want this to go. If they simply want a money maker, they will need to make changes because casual gamers (who FAR outnumber all you hardcore gamers) are not going to participate. Casual gamers don't have hours upon hours to farm resources, only to have everything stolen each night. That's not fun, no matter what any of you say. It isn't fun to invest time into a game, collecting and gathering, to just have to re-do it constantly.
And with that - I'm done. Thanks for listening.
PS - all you claiming that I want carebears and cuddle zones are illiterate and incapable of reading comprehension. Your insults just make you look like a clown.[/QUOTE]
Part of the problem as to why you are getting flamed so hard is this niche of gamers has been ignored or screwed over for years, 15+ years. As like you said many games started out like Rust, open and free with a real harsh environment where the user can do as they feel. However as usual the developers slowly catered to the casual players / care bares that wanted less griefing and more safe zones to the point it destroyed the game for those who loved it. Think about it, if EVERY game you played was like Rust is now, how happy would you be? Then take a new game up and coming with safe zones and what you want then a bunch of people come around and get it changed, over time you will quickly become jaded as well. This is what has happened to a lot of people who love the game the way it is, because there is LOTS of games out there with safe zones/hand holding, but very few open worlds where the player gets to decide how to play.
With that said I think the fact that the developers are making Rust so modular and modable it really plays to everyone. As if you want to do something non mainstream you can mod as you like on a server you can rent/host and everyone is happy. So in a way Rust is building the game for everyone hard cores and casuals. I also hope they continue to build it so its highly customizable.
On a final note, anytime a game is built for casuals over hard cores you run into the same fundamental problem which is power creep. There is no real silver bullet for this as if you make everything easier to get for the casuals the game would turn into a FPS pretty well really quickly and people would be even more ravenous for updates as they would be board. Power creep is really a hard balancing act.
There's no reason to add safe zones/pvp zones.
It's artificial, and the open PvP is exactly what draws people to this kind of game. Too many great PvP games have been ruined by people wanting a more softcore game.
If you don't like to PvP, just play on a PvE server.
[QUOTE=Rustypipe;43810376]Part of the problem as to why you are getting flamed so hard is this niche of gamers has been ignored or screwed over for years, 15+ years. As like you said many games started out like Rust, open and free with a real harsh environment where the user can do as they feel. However as usual the developers slowly catered to the casual players / care bares that wanted less griefing and more safe zones to the point it destroyed the game for those who loved it. Think about it, if EVERY game you played was like Rust is now, how happy would you be? Then take a new game up and coming with safe zones and what you want then a bunch of people come around and get it changed, over time you will quickly become jaded as well. This is what has happened to a lot of people who love the game the way it is, because there is LOTS of games out there with safe zones/hand holding, but very few open worlds where the player gets to decide how to play.
[/QUOTE]
this will be on my tombstone.
[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798297]Your comments don't address the issue. Saying "welcome to rust" is just silly. Or saying "build a community" is pretty asinine for a spawn that has a rock and 3 bandages. Maybe I'm just not playing the game correctly, but I just feel that spawns are had a huge disadvantage currently.[/QUOTE] Fresh-spawns ARE at a massive disadvantage if you don't know what you're doing -- but once you figure it out, you're fine. Unless there are hackers on your server. And then, yeah, okay. You're screwed. But that's something that will be addressed when the devs have time (I'd rather they make a damn good game first, worry about hackers second, especially when you consider that there are servers out there with little if any hacking). Friends really help in Rust, so make some.
[editline]6th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43808959]Well - that was interesting. I participate in probably close to a dozen or so forums - and the amount of just blatant, unintelligent flaming on this site is like nothing I've seen. Some of you guys are just ignorant. Anyone capable of reading understood my OP to be a SUGGESTION for others to discuss - not berate the opinions of others. Just because you don't like a suggestion doesn't mean that you have to insult and attack the person giving that opinion. I suspect many of you are the same guys running around and just killing spawns because you can. Sure would seem like it based on the comments of some.
If the devs want to make a hardcore game and target a very (small) niche market, that's their prerogative and who are any of us really to disagree. My point is that in doing so, you alienate your game from larger group of PAYING customers. If the devs goal is to create their vision without regard to financial return, great. If their goal is to create a good game and also make a boatload of money, than compromises need to be made.
I won't go back and re-quote everyone, but a few hit exactly on the point - "the rich get rich and the poor get poorer". That's absolutely true. Those who have, continue to take more and more from the environment, in their m4/c4 toting clans. This leaves the spawns literally defenseless and running from nooks and crannies trying to hide and praying that they make it thru the night. The problem is that there are FAR too many players and groups who feel the objective of the game is to kill as many newbs as possible and frustrate the shit out of them. See, I thought the objective of the game was survival. Survival to me isn't running around killing everything you see simply because you can.
The problem arises with how difficult it can be to collect enough resources to build a basic shelter. Depending on the servers, it can be downright impossible to collect enough resources to even build a 1x1 shelter. And quote honestly, I know i'm not the only one who feels that way, as it has been posted on forums all over the interwebs.
So let me try to rephrase my point without just being flamed - currently, I feel that there is a huge barrier to entry for spawns. But this entire discussion is actually irrelevant because NONE of us know where the devs want this to go. If they simply want a money maker, they will need to make changes because casual gamers (who FAR outnumber all you hardcore gamers) are not going to participate. Casual gamers don't have hours upon hours to farm resources, only to have everything stolen each night. That's not fun, no matter what any of you say. It isn't fun to invest time into a game, collecting and gathering, to just have to re-do it constantly.
And with that - I'm done. Thanks for listening.
PS - all you claiming that I want carebears and cuddle zones are illiterate and incapable of reading comprehension. Your insults just make you look like a clown.[/QUOTE]
Really? This is pretty light flaming, all things considered. Welcome to the Internet (not just Rust).
And didn't DayZ show that games like this DO have a paying market? Hell, doesn't Rust itself show that? There are players who want hardcore, emergent gameplay. That's kind of the entire point of the game. And I've started late-game on servers and still done fine -- again, you just have to know what you're doing. You don't, it seems. Remember -- it only takes 2 head-shots at most with a bow to kill ANYBODY, even a dude in full Kev. It's not hard to kill people, and it's not hard to raid. Defending gets tricky, but that's the name of the game.
I have less sympathy for you when you go on childish rants, whining about the game being too hard and demanding changes. It WILL change, and I hope to god it's not in the direction you want.
Cmon it's still in Alpha and 90% unfinished
WoW players. "Oh I am hardcore, I raid and shit" Bullshit! WoW's style has already ruined hardcore gaming too much. Face it, if you wanna be good at a hardcore game, you must play hardcore. Level system? Screw that, where is the skill? I could easily take down a fully geared guy with a bit of lucky as a fresh spawn. Have done that already. Safe zones? Do you want they to serve you a cup of tea as well? WHAT'S THAT FOR?
Rust is clearly under development and there are several things to add and balance, but don't come with dumb ideas like that. Just 'cause you've played for 15 years doesn't mean you know how stuff should be done. That's the whole idea about RUST. Doing something unique, not some bullshit level-quest-raid-repeat game. It's about unique experiences.
[QUOTE=Cherno Bill;43810976]WoW players. "Oh I am hardcore, I raid and shit" Bullshit! WoW's style has already ruined hardcore gaming too much. Face it, if you wanna be good at a hardcore game, you must play hardcore. Level system? Screw that, where is the skill? I could easily take down a fully geared guy with a bit of lucky as a fresh spawn. Have done that already. Safe zones? Do you want they to serve you a cup of tea as well? WHAT'S THAT FOR?
Rust is clearly under development and there are several things to add and balance, but don't come with dumb ideas like that. Just 'cause you've played for 15 years doesn't mean you know how stuff should be done. That's the whole idea about RUST. Doing something unique, not some bullshit level-quest-raid-repeat game. It's about unique experiences.[/QUOTE]
Gotta love Brazilians.
A "gametype" or mod where you are automatically put on a faction when joining a server so you have a lot of bros would be a good alternative.
There are obvious problems with that, but have some servers that ran something like that might make it easier for people like this. It also sounds pretty fun if there were 3 factions and there was some way to "own" territory until it was raided to the point it belongs to the raiders.
[QUOTE=Valorx;43810990]Gotta love Brazilians.[/QUOTE]
Gotta love 'muricans ;)
Wait.. my sarcasm sense could not load a proper meaning for what you said.
[QUOTE=wreckington;43811105]A "gametype" or mod where you are automatically put on a faction when joining a server so you have a lot of bros would be a good alternative.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it could be a solution for people like the poster. A mod maybe. 'Cus the good thing about RUST is that there are no pre-defined relationships between players. That, I think, is something that must be kept.
disagree ruining the point of the game
[QUOTE=Cherno Bill;43811302]Gotta love 'muricans ;)
Wait.. my sarcasm sense could not load a proper meaning for what you said.
Yes, it could be a solution for people like the poster. A mod maybe. 'Cus the good thing about RUST is that there are no pre-defined relationships between players. That, I think, is something that must be kept.[/QUOTE]
You done good... :)
[QUOTE=Rocheklip;43798120]Stopped reading after this, It is alpha, it is 10% complete. Rest of your argument is invalid.[/QUOTE]
Give PoppinHeads a break, hes talking about a problem which we all know exists for those who join a populated server long after a wipe, and hes trying to come up with a solution. Thats called being constructive, its not like hes flat out ranting/whinging. People on the forums can be assholes and it creates a shitty community
[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798096]Hi All,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I don't want to come across as a 12 year old who doesn't think things are fair, but there is a major issue with this game. Let me start by saying I have been gaming from 15+ years. I consider myself a mature gamer and have played everything from C&C to all the Warcraft games (including WoW), COD, BF, Minecraft, etc.
To give you some background, I've researched Rust for a while before paying for it. I loved the open world of Minecraft and the survival aspect of this was awesome. Now, according to Steam, I have 35 hours played in this game (in 8 days) and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I've played on official and community servers, PvP and PvE. PvE was enjoyable, but because of limited content, it gets stale. So, I tried PvP.
The problem is that everyone wants to kill everyone. And spawn ganking seems to be the norm. For me, I knew to expect this, and wasn't deterred. However, I think I'm going to hang up the towel. It is beyond frustrating to spend time starting out with nothing, gathering materials (which is hard to do on populated servers), only to be ganked by the "server raid crew". What I have seen on every server is that there are bands of people who have EVERYTHING, just running around and killing people.
Don't misunderstand me - I am fully aware of the PvP & survival nature of this game. The fact that you lose everything is an added incentive to not do stupid shit. But I'm tired of finally having enough wood to build a shack and getting ganked, being looted, and having to respawn.
The ganking isn't the issue - the issue is all these people who have geared up and feel empowered to just kill people. I understand that is the point of the game, but there is a huge fairness issue when someone has every weapon and 100+ rounds for each and just team up and kill spawns.
/rant off
[U][B]Solutions[/B][/U]
Implement "neutral zones" where PvP is disabled. Similar to the towns in WoW, where fighting cannot occur (obv you can't build a shelter in a safe zone)
Implement a player level system, so as a level 25 player cannot just run around ganking level 1s and 2s.
[U][B]Final Thoughts[/B][/U]
I love this game - it is so addictive that I keep starting over and I can't answer why, with how frustrated I am. Make it so that spawns have a fair shot of getting supplies, weapons, and some armor within the first 1-2 days.[/QUOTE]
IMO the key to this game is finding the right server. You need to go with a modded server, it took me quite a few hrs and I was ready to give up as well until I found one with great admins. Our admins keep our server as balanced as they can, with noob protection for the first hr and things like that. The community there is also fantastic. There are a few asses, but for the most part, 99% of people wont grief you. It seems to have become kind of an honor code thing. They will raid you, kill you, but then let you be awhile to "build back up". Also even when people kill or raid they often will give tips in game chat as to why/how/what your weakness was. It benefits the server by making everyone more competitive and pvp more fun. Just keep looking for a good modded server. Also as many have said the game is Alpha, there are many changes to come. PM me if you would like our server address.
op is a carebear
[QUOTE=PoppinHeads;43798096]Hi All,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I don't want to come across as a 12 year old who doesn't think things are fair, but there is a major issue with this game. Let me start by saying I have been gaming from 15+ years. I consider myself a mature gamer and have played everything from C&C to all the Warcraft games (including WoW), COD, BF, Minecraft, etc.
To give you some background, I've researched Rust for a while before paying for it. I loved the open world of Minecraft and the survival aspect of this was awesome. Now, according to Steam, I have 35 hours played in this game (in 8 days) and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I've played on official and community servers, PvP and PvE. PvE was enjoyable, but because of limited content, it gets stale. So, I tried PvP.
The problem is that everyone wants to kill everyone. And spawn ganking seems to be the norm. For me, I knew to expect this, and wasn't deterred. However, I think I'm going to hang up the towel. It is beyond frustrating to spend time starting out with nothing, gathering materials (which is hard to do on populated servers), only to be ganked by the "server raid crew". What I have seen on every server is that there are bands of people who have EVERYTHING, just running around and killing people.
Don't misunderstand me - I am fully aware of the PvP & survival nature of this game. The fact that you lose everything is an added incentive to not do stupid shit. But I'm tired of finally having enough wood to build a shack and getting ganked, being looted, and having to respawn.
The ganking isn't the issue - the issue is all these people who have geared up and feel empowered to just kill people. I understand that is the point of the game, but there is a huge fairness issue when someone has every weapon and 100+ rounds for each and just team up and kill spawns.
/rant off
[U][B]Solutions[/B][/U]
Implement "neutral zones" where PvP is disabled. Similar to the towns in WoW, where fighting cannot occur (obv you can't build a shelter in a safe zone)
Implement a player level system, so as a level 25 player cannot just run around ganking level 1s and 2s.
[U][B]Final Thoughts[/B][/U]
I love this game - it is so addictive that I keep starting over and I can't answer why, with how frustrated I am. Make it so that spawns have a fair shot of getting supplies, weapons, and some armor within the first 1-2 days.[/QUOTE]
too many words.
read some.
and here's my solution to your problem.
Rust-is-not-a-MMORPG
There are plug-ins for this.
[url]http://forum.rustoxide.com/resources/zone-manager.187/[/url]
Just like what standardsande said, play on small servers they can be very quiet and you won't run into many people and if you do they are usually friendly unless you make them angry.
I do not agree with what OP is saying but I do believe some sort of balance needs to be incorporated. 355 hours I've got in rust and I still find it near impossible to setup, solo, in a 4 day established 60+ player server. No chance. You set up a base in the mountains, raided by the time you get back. You get resources, killed by a player. You walk outside your building, someone spots you and there's 5 players at your door within 5 minutes. You either need to setup hundreds of metres away from resources or just leave the server since cooperation with other groups is pretty tough when solo. I had one dude stand there for 5 minutes, giving me a bunch of gear, food, med kits, basic shit in a 80+ server. I say thanks and begin walking away to which he shoots me in the back and gathered what he gave me.
Once a server is established, there is little chance for a new player to that server(not a noob) to progress. Don't speak of creating allies. If it were simple to create allies, this problem wouldn't exist. Every player kills any player who is less equipped than them.
I like a challenge. The game it self is a challenge, but a well established server is no place for a solo player just joining. You need to be there moments after the wipe to secure a spot and start building.
This game is a group game, a team game. No team, then stick to a small server size(30 max).
In general Garry and the Devs don't plan to put restrictions on this game.. its not meant to be a game that appeals to all players so your main point being "safe zones will help more people play rust" isn't really a concern.
The beauty of a game like this is not having rules, and being able to make your own story. Safe zones just cause people not wanting to fight stay in them.. and people that DO want to fight go to the non-safe zones... so every single interaction you are going to have is already predetermined by what zone you are in.
Garry has already said they are against having additional rules and restrictions.. but would rather add tools for the player to utilize how they see fit.
Thing is if you play on a low pop or PVE focused server you will fast find out that after some days you are bored to death.
There is to less content to keep a PVE player entertained (IMHO).
If you miss out the thrill to grab some loot in high contested areas you miss out the fun in this game.
I had the luck of having a good friend who bought the game at the same day i did, and i can tell you that just one of us is looting while the other stays on his toes and scans the area for possible threads.
Use the bow for hunting if you have no silencer for your guns and dont use the flashlight if it is not totally needed. Stay low and know your surrounding. All in all, be paranoid :p
Thats how we survived.
P.s.:
Most important thing is research, nobody can take that from you :)
Don't you dare ruin this game with your trammy mindset. That ruined one of the best MMOs of all time. UO.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;43809937]@PoppinHeads- do you feel that a safe zone would still be necessary once resources are spread across the entire island? It seems to me that when that happens, both sides to this debate could get what they want.[/QUOTE]
Actually, since the latest patch, it seems to have gotten better. I've decided to revise my opinion. At first, "safe zones" seemed like an appropriate solution to an underlying problem. Now, I can see that safe zones don't address the actual problem I was experiencing.
So to all you who have disagreed, I'm sold. It's a survival game, anything should go.
The problem should be rephrased to be that there are just too many dicks playing the game. Hopefully, as the game develops and more and more content is added, this problem will go away - as there will be less incentive to just run around and harass new players trying to learn the ropes. Right now, there is no incentive once you've discovered all items and plans to not just harass people who haven't even build their first shelter.
Go play Minecraft. It's a legit response to ppl bitching about PvP.
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