Totally okay with the concept of ladders... but ladders aren't Post-It Notes. - Rust

fuck i'm getting tired of the word "carebear"...should be a bannable offence.

[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;47769985]when you build a base make more doors, more ways to shoot them, windows around the doors and so on, just like before, if the base was built badly then it was easy to get them while they were on because they had one or two ways to get to us so you could just blow up everything around and keep their 1-2 doors closed.[/QUOTE] Like i said in a lot of topics: Resources ... trow more resources at the problem. More time and resources. Doors involve double the resources. Frame + Door ... and you do not want to use wooden doors. So you need armored. And you need a code lock. Code locks that can be extreme hard to find depending on your luck with the drops/barrels. For each door you need: 1050 metal, 800 stone and 600 wood. Not counting supports etc ... One of my bases had 10 doors for the levels + ground + the level it self. Now any raider can bypass that unless i spend maybe 120 extra barriers and 120 extra floors ( better make those armored or the rock blast range will simply destroy a lot at one go ). The fact that supports can also be ladder able... *sigh* ... Given the choice to auto craft gunpowder at night and just raid everybody else ( and have fun ) or just do again the boring resource gathering, building and trying to add some defense against so many possible raid angels ... what will most people do?

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47771791]fuck i'm getting tired of the word "carebear"...should be a bannable offence.[/QUOTE] And we're all getting tired of the carebears. People who shit up the forums complaining about how their base is now too easy / too hard to raid, or how raiding is too expensive / too cheap, or how they're quitting Rust because there are ladders now, or whatever bullshit they feel like whining about today. Rust evolves, things change, some stuff breaks, some stuff gets fixed. It's a game where, among other things, people get shot and loot gets looted. The people who have a problem with that are carebears. You might as well buy CoD and complain about the violence. [editline]21st May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=benjiro;47771885]Like i said in a lot of topics: Resources ... trow more resources at the problem. More time and resources.[/QUOTE] Right now, raiding is a question of pricing. Is it worth it to do the raid? It took you x resources to build y C4 in order to punch through z walls. Do you think you'll get more than x resources in return? Of course, there are also raids whose sole purpose is to annoy or disrupt the occupant of the house (see: just about every server the day before a wipe). Those are always going to happen no matter what.

[QUOTE=benjiro;47771885]... Given the choice to auto craft gunpowder at night and just raid everybody else ( and have fun ) or just do again the boring resource gathering, building and trying to add some defense against so many possible raid angels ... what will most people do?[/QUOTE] You gonna stand out in an open field and craft gunpowder? Where'd you get the resources needed for it? Too many raid angles? What will people do? Carry on as usual, thats what they will do. It takes the following resources to make 3 C4: Sulfur: 2073 Metal Fragment: 474 Charcoal: 1848 Leather: 15 Cloth: 90 Animal Fat: 180 Do those just appear in your inventory or something? No, you have to grind for them. You probably want to store them somewhere. Not to mention 3 c4 is not going to get you very far into [I]any[/I] base-- not even a shitty one. I'm constantly amazed at the lack of people's ability to accurately project the effect a change (like ladders) will have on game play. Ladders don't change much. It means you can't rely [I]quite as much[/I]on your base being top heavy (even though your roof was always vulnerable to siege towers). I agree ladders should be leanable and not sticky, but even that's not going to change much. In Legacy you can pillar-barricade up to any point on the side of an enemy base and punch your way in wherever you like. It's always been that way in Legacy. Now it will be like that in the main branch for a while. Big deal. People will adapt. Its not the end of the world. It will be a very small change (except for those people who are too short sighted to change their ways and get raided and then complain). Spread your loot out over your entire base. Yes, use multiple doors (omg, I gotta build a door? wtf!). Put some stuff in a smaller base nearby. Layer your base internally. There are a million ways to adapt to this change. Start thinking about them and stop complaining. Ladders are incoming. Deal with it.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47771791]fuck i'm getting tired of the word "carebear"...should be a bannable offence.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/W2tHRxQ.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=frank_walls;47772783][img]http://i.imgur.com/W2tHRxQ.gif[/img][/QUOTE] I am offended by this smiley. Mods?

Ladders take 200 seconds to craft, if you want to sit there for an hour and craft 18 ladders that i can destroy in less than a minute knock your self out

[QUOTE=Dionysus9;47772176]You gonna stand out in an open field and craft gunpowder? Where'd you get the resources needed for it? Too many raid angles? What will people do? Carry on as usual, thats what they will do. It takes the following resources to make 3 C4: Sulfur: 2073 Metal Fragment: 474 Charcoal: 1848 Leather: 15 Cloth: 90 Animal Fat: 180 Do those just appear in your inventory or something? No, you have to grind for them. You probably want to store them somewhere. Not to mention 3 c4 is not going to get you very far into [I]any[/I] base-- not even a shitty one.[/QUOTE] Stop using legacy C4 costs? Leather... really!! -------- I have always made the argument that resource do not match up with the costs. Lets say a 3x3 base. Not exactly a big base with a central 1x1 loot room ... 14 walls, 16 pillars, 9 floors, 2 door frames, 2 doors, 2 code locks = 21600 metal, 17200 stone, 13900 wood. And this does NOT take in account armored foundations. That base takes 6 C4: Sulfur: 16500, Metal Fragment: 1500, Charcoal: 15000, Cloth: 480, Animal Fat: 900 Sulfur processes almost twice as fast then metal fragments in the furnaces! Charcoal is a automatic byproduct. So raiders can already enjoy a twice as much processing time on there sulfur vs metal fragments for the base builder. ------- Ladder: That base takes 3 C4 to breach ( roof ): Sulfur: 8250, Metal Fragment: 750, Charcoal: 7500, Cloth: 240, Animal Fat: 450 ------- Lets say you want to make it more difficult to raid, 3x3 with metal barricades on the outside, overhanging roof with metal barricades and metal barricades on the roof: Basic base: 21600 metal, 17200 stone, 13900 wood. Extended ( Armored extensions: 12, metal barricades: 41 ): 26500 metal, 5600, 3600 Notice how when you add only the basic defenses against ladders. You can keep saying how horrible things are but i can actually craft C4 faster, then the resource costs for bases. ------ Also take in account. * More outer layers ( 4x4, 5x5 ) increase cost exponentially. * Each floor increases the cost, combined with the layer costs. ------ After raid effect for the victim: * You lost a lot or all your resources. * C4 damage range will have damaged every wall in your building. * Replacement costs for lost walls or barricades. Raiders: * At worst they have no loot ( if somebody has a armored base ... that is like 5% to get no loot ). * Break even in resources * Profit No offense but the resource gain / losses to do stack up a lot. Most raids raiders walk away with the basic ingredients ( most people do not process a lot of sulfur and hold on to the ore ). And the walk away with the fun of raiding somebody. The house owner has the fun for more resource hunting, repairing and dealing with the fact that his base is still not protected and needs MORE and MORE protection ( and we all know like i said a 1000 times, the more protection you add, the more the resource cost skyrockets ). ------------ Anyway ... do what you want with it. All i know is that ladders just added the increased cost of almost half a floor extra costs per layer you build. It removes almost all protections from any pre-existing systems ( buildups or just raiders so stupid to blow up walls ). Water bases become also easy targets now. Etc etc ... the game became even more raider focused. It removed all the skill of actually trying to climb rocks, finding the edges of cupboard ranges etc ...

@benjiro absolutely They should stop adding new things and start balance all the old content.

[QUOTE=Hickimaru;47773465]@benjiro absolutely They should stop adding new things and start balance all the old content.[/QUOTE] Balancing will start once more or less everything is in. No point in balancing now if next thing is going unbalance everything again.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47773511]Balancing will start once more or less everything is in. No point in balancing now if next thing is going unbalance everything again.[/QUOTE] Maybe you are right but when this continues like this, one day it will be unplayable.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47773511]Balancing will start once more or less everything is in. No point in balancing now if next thing is going unbalance everything again.[/QUOTE] Considering that balance has already started, and the fact that no game that takes itself seriously implements sweeping balance changes, I'd have to disagree with you. Its up to us, the testers, to help point them in the right direction. That's kind of hard with children screaming that nothing is wrong because they happened to have one piece of anecdotal evidence proving without a doubt that their opinions are flawless.

[QUOTE=Thc420Vato;47762040]Ladders are fucking stupid. You will break the game bigtime with em.[/QUOTE] CORRECT...same as rocket launchers and i hate decay

Errr body likes raiding but no body wants to lose their stuff

[QUOTE=Sneak2;47775809]CORRECT...same as rocket launchers and i hate decay[/QUOTE] Cuz magnetic twig stairs that can be placed anywhere even on the fucking pillars ain't OP at all. HURR DURR. :suicide: Solo players can just stop playing until they fix this crap. I have no problems with rockets or decay.

[QUOTE=frank_walls;47761241]I do find their stickiness odd. Might be better if they could only only be leaned up against something instead of just stuck on almost anywhere. This will be an interesting update![/QUOTE] Seems reasonable--or some sort of hammer-and-nail mechanism to secure them in place?

[QUOTE=neil.hillman;47762084]Actually no, 300x wood, same as spears or floor spikes. For me, (as a builder), this a a total game-changer. Not sure I'll bother to build after the next update, as the odds are too in favour of the raiders now. Putting your tool cupboard on a higher floor is no deterrent now, anybody can climb onto your roof whenever they want. I guess there's no where safe to store your loot bewteen sessions. Just carry it on you until you die or log off, then start again. :-([/QUOTE] This is precisely why I stopped playing. I logged off for 1 hour exactly. I came back to find 11 ladders stacked one on top of the other up the side of my 11 story tower. They blew out 2 levels of roof (I walled myself in on the 9th floor, armored, before logging out) and took about 8 hours worth of gametime in resources. I had 2 levels with floor overhangs, and signs all the way around at 2 other levels (I was told either of those could serve as a ladder deterrent). What's the point of playing if every time I log out, I know I'm starting the game over when I log back on? Ladders are fucking silly.

Legacy was amazing Ladders bring it closer They are amazing stop crying and make a strong base like the old days with heaps of rooms and they get hit down with 2 fucken hits so yeah no griefing at all

The resource generating structures coming into the game appear to be designed to require more wall-type defenses instead of being another item secured in a base. This may strengthen the argument for making ladders more difficult to deploy in TC zones, against wall exteriors, etc.