It's not a freaking raid if you do it while everyone is offline. - Rust

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648363]"AstroSloth posted: Forgive me for this but [B]you're an idiot[/B]. Like you said, this is a game. We can play it however we like. If I walk by a base that I'm positive has tons of gear, and you've defended it poorly, it's now mine. Learn to develop a stronger compound or grab some guys to be on around the clock. I'd hardly call it cowardice, but if you want to continue looking for something to bitch about, I don't guess I can stop you. It's raiding. Stop bitching and go back to playing. Sounds like you need to learn a bit more anyways." Mmmm.. yes... name calling. Wait, you meant me, not yourself... It's still burglary. You're still a burglar.[/QUOTE] Do you understand the meaning of [I]just[/I]? It means that you're providing nothing more than that. I am. You're still an idiot. You're also a liar. So are you going to contribute to the topic that you started, or have we begun the phase where you just continue to argue and post for your own dignity?

You're seeing only what you want to see. Quit nitpicking and come to the realization you are arguing semantics and not facts.

Soooo..... What if you intentionally set out, to find empty homes to steal from. You know a of a nice home, which should have stuff in it and you set out. In this scenario you are intentionally playing the burglar. When you arrive you take your time to find weak spots in the defence. When doing so, you find out that the occupant is on-line and well aware of the fact that you are checking out the house. Now, when you gain entrance to said house, is it still not burglarizing even though the occupant is home? Surely it can't be called raiding since the occupant has been aware of you from the moment you started checking out the house and there is no real surprise left.

[QUOTE=AstroSloth;43648398]Do you understand the meaning of [I]just[/I]? It means that you're providing nothing more than that. I am. You're still an idiot. You're also a liar. So are you going to contribute to the topic that you started, or have we begun the phase where you just continue to argue and post for your own dignity?[/QUOTE] Just gonna put this right here: "AstroSloth posted: I'd hardly call it raging. I'm presenting you with fact, reasoning and logic. You're just name-calling and lying."

[QUOTE=outlawpickle;43648360]He said it's all semantics, and it came down to preference. What thread are you reading?[/QUOTE] He isn't really reading. He's just scanning the posts looking for bits that he can use to his own advantage. It's sad, really. I don't think we're doing much good giving him this attention.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648333]The flaw with this logic is that police are part of an organized law keeping unit. They can't "raid" houses without court orders, which require surveillance, and evidence that the place they're raiding has both illegal content and perps. When they raid a drug house, they're hoping to catch the dealers. They don't wait until the dealers go out on a drug run. I do appreciate what you're trying to say, believe me, but that just doesn't apply here.[/QUOTE] It's a sudden attack made by badits in an attempt to seize or destroy something. If no one is home it does not suddenly stop being that. By this definition using C4 to take the items from an unoccupied base IS a raid 1.sudden attack: a sudden attack made by soldiers, aircraft, police, bandits, or any other force in an attempt to seize or destroy something By this definition using C4 to take the items from an unoccupied base IS a raid a sudden assault or attack, as upon something to be seized or suppressed: a police raid on a gambling ring. By this definition using C4 to take the items from an unoccupied base IS a raid an act of going into a place (such as a bank) in order to steal something By this definition using C4 to take the items from an unoccupied base IS a raid a surprise attack on an enemy by soldiers or other military forces By this definition using C4 to take the items from an unoccupied base IS a raid A surprise attack by a small armed force. You are saying that vikings who raided a village only raided it if the village was occupied. If the warriors were out hunting then they didn't raid the village? NO that's INCORRECT. If vikings raided a village they did so regardless of if the village was occupied at the time.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648424]Just gonna put this right here: "AstroSloth posted: I'd hardly call it raging. I'm presenting you with fact, reasoning and logic. You're just name-calling and lying."[/QUOTE] Awesome, you can copy and paste. I've proud of ya, kid! Now, can you type up a logical response to my posts? I'll give ya a gold star!

[QUOTE=Itrme;43648413]Soooo..... What if you intentionally set out, to find empty homes to steal from. You know a of a nice home, which should have stuff in it and you set out. In this scenario you are intentionally playing the burglar. When you arrive you take your time to find weak spots in the defence. When doing so, you find out that the occupant is on-line and well aware of the fact that you are checking out the house. Now, when you gain entrance to said house, is it still not burglarizing even though the occupant is home? Surely it can't be called raiding since the occupant has been aware of you from the moment you started checking out the house and there is no real surprise left.[/QUOTE] It goes from being simple burglary to being both burglary and a raid. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. If you're engaging an "enemy" in combat at their facility, it's raiding. You can still take their gear, and you're still stealing their equipment, which is still burglary, but it's now more easily enveloped in the term "raiding". Instead of saying you were committing a burglary at that point, you'd be raiding. The circumstances of how you find the place don't matter. It's the circumstances under which the -act occurs-. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=AstroSloth;43648444]Awesome, you can copy and paste. I've proud of ya, kid! Now, can you type up a logical response to my posts? I'll give ya a gold star![/QUOTE] Sorry, I stopped taking you seriously when you resorted to insults and then attempted to tell other people they were insulting you. As of yet in this entire thread, you are the only person who has done any insulting. No one has tried to tell you how to play, no one has attacked you for your perspective on the subject. People have merely disagreed. You take that personally, and that's fine, but I would recommend against a career in politics. You can't have a discussion with a hypocrite. You've proven that.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648449]It goes from being simple burglary to being both burglary and a raid. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. If you're engaging an "enemy" in combat at their facility, it's raiding. You can still take their gear, and you're still stealing their equipment, which is still burglary, but it's now more easily enveloped in the term "raiding". Instead of saying you were committing a burglary at that point, you'd be raiding. The circumstances of how you find the place don't matter. It's the circumstances under which the -act occurs-.[/QUOTE] Exactly, and when you gain entrance to a building unknowingly if they are on-line but willingly to engage if they are on-line then it is still a RAID regardless.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648449]It goes from being simple burglary to being both burglary and a raid. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. If you're engaging an "enemy" in combat at their facility, it's raiding. You can still take their gear, and you're still stealing their equipment, which is still burglary, but it's now more easily enveloped in the term "raiding". Instead of saying you were committing a burglary at that point, you'd be raiding. [/QUOTE] It's not about engaging the enemy it's about the conditions in which you enter the building. kicking down door of empty house with shotgun and body armor and stealing something = raid and burglary Blowing down a door of an empty house with guns and armor to steal something = raid and burglary sneaking in a window of an empty house and stealing something = burglary every definition i've listed supports this.

[QUOTE=Itrme;43648468]Exactly, and when you gain entrance to a building unknowingly if they are on-line but willingly to engage if they are on-line then it is still a RAID regardless.[/QUOTE] If you're actively breaking into empty houses, it's not a raid. It's burglary. All raids are burglary, not all burglaries are raids.

We've got chicken that comes from bears and you are going to argue about the definition of "raid?"

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648449]It goes from being simple burglary to being both burglary and a raid. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. If you're engaging an "enemy" in combat at their facility, it's raiding. You can still take their gear, and you're still stealing their equipment, which is still burglary, but it's now more easily enveloped in the term "raiding". Instead of saying you were committing a burglary at that point, you'd be raiding. The circumstances of how you find the place don't matter. It's the circumstances under which the -act occurs-. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] Sorry, I stopped taking you seriously when you resorted to insults and then attempted to tell other people they were insulting you. As of yet in this entire thread, you are the only person who has done any insulting. You can't have a discussion with a hypocrite. You've proven that.[/QUOTE] Burglary is theft. Theft is stealing something that someone else owns. Ownership branches from purchases, contracts, etc. Ownership does not exist in this game, therefore thievery does not exist. You don't own anything. You go out, hit a few rocks and trees, kill a few animals and make a house. You don't own it. You find a few guns looting or you get an airdrop. You don't own them. They may be in your possession, but you don't have ownership and therefore nobody is stealing from you when you lose them. Case closed. Everyone go home!

[QUOTE=iamcpc;43648470]It's not about engaging the enemy it's about the conditions in which you enter the building. kicking down door of empty house with shotgun and body armor and stealing something = raid and burglary Blowing down a door of an empty house with guns and armor to steal something = raid and burglary sneaking in a window of an empty house and stealing something = burglary every definition i've listed supports this.[/QUOTE] Actually, not a single definition supports burglary being the act of "sneaking in through a window". That sounds like something you heard on television. bur·glary noun \ˈbər-glə-rē also -gə-lə-rē also -gəl-rē\ : the act of illegally entering a building in order to steal things plural bur·glar·ies Full Definition of BURGLARY : the act of breaking and entering a dwelling at night to commit a felony (as theft); broadly : the entering of a building with the intent to commit a crime This is from Webster. If anything, as soon as you *aren't* killing someone, you're committing a burglary, not a raid. The means of entry have nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648478]If you're actively breaking into empty houses, it's not a raid. It's burglary. All raids are burglary, not all burglaries are raids.[/QUOTE] It all depends on the manner of which you break into empty houses. The rust way of breaking into an empty house that uses c4 or grenades automatically makes it both a burglary and a raid.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648478]If you're actively breaking into empty houses, it's not a raid. It's burglary. All raids are burglary, not all burglaries are raids.[/QUOTE] There it is again, as I stated you UNAWARE if said occupants are on-line or not. You set out to RAID and are willing to engage if the occupants are on-line, whereas a burglar would check if the occupants were on-line first. I will make it really clear for you: - You raid a base - You don't know if it's empty or not - You aren't afraid of some shooting - You want all the loots. ??? Raiding

[QUOTE=AstroSloth;43648484]Burglary is theft. Theft is stealing something that someone else owns. Ownership branches from purchases, contracts, etc. Ownership does not exist in this game, therefore thievery does not exist. You don't own anything. You go out, hit a few rocks and trees, kill a few animals and make a house. You don't own it. You find a few guns looting or you get an airdrop. You don't own them. They may be in your possession, but you don't have ownership and therefore nobody is stealing from you when you lose them. Case closed. Everyone go home![/QUOTE] Possession is 9/10ths the law, sir. When a path of sale is unavailable, possession becomes ownership. This applies to all cases of ownership. If you cannot prove who bought or sold something in court, the person who has possession of it is the owner until proven otherwise. own·er·ship ˈōnərˌSHip/Submit noun 1. the act, state, or right of possessing something.

Oh I see. Maybe the developer's can put a little light on top of each base. Green = Somebody's home and raiding is okay. Red = No one is home, and if you raid this house you will be labeled a Burglar....forever and ever.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648488]Actually, not a single definition supports burglary being the act of "sneaking in through a window". That sounds like something you heard on television. bur·glary noun \ˈbər-glə-rē also -gə-lə-rē also -gəl-rē\ : the act of illegally entering a building in order to steal things plural bur·glar·ies Full Definition of BURGLARY : the act of breaking and entering a dwelling at night to commit a felony (as theft); broadly : the entering of a building with the intent to commit a crime This is from Webster. If anything, as soon as you *aren't* killing someone, you're committing a burglary, not a raid. The means of entry have nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] You're ignoring the very definition you've provided. Crimes and felonies are nonexistent in this video game. The rest of your claim is blown to bits because of that.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648488]Actually, not a single definition supports burglary being the act of "sneaking in through a window". That sounds like something you heard on television. bur·glary noun \ˈbər-glə-rē also -gə-lə-rē also -gəl-rē\ : the act of illegally entering a building in order to steal things plural bur·glar·ies Full Definition of BURGLARY : the act of breaking and entering a dwelling at night to commit a felony (as theft); broadly : the entering of a building with the intent to commit a crime This is from Webster. If anything, as soon as you *aren't* killing someone, you're committing a burglary, not a raid. The means of entry have nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] We have already established the fact that all raids are burglaries. We no longer need to understand what a burglary is. If you attack an empty base with shotguns, body armor, blow open the door, and take everything that is a RAID.

[QUOTE=iamcpc;43648507]It all depends on the manner of which you break into empty houses. The rust way of breaking into an empty house that uses c4 or grenades automatically makes it both a burglary and a raid.[/QUOTE] The manner in which you break in has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not its a raid. I mean you could try it in real life if you want. Go rob someones house by using demo charges on a wall. You'll still be taken up on charges of theft, and obviously like a HUNDRED other things, but none of them will be because you were trying to kill people. Attempted manslaughter might be in there though.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648531]The manner in which you break in has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not its a raid. I mean you could try it in real life if you want. Go rob someones house by using demo charges on a wall. You'll still be taken up on charges of theft, and obviously like a HUNDRED other things, but none of them will be because you were trying to kill people. Attempted manslaughter might be in there though.[/QUOTE] Then how on earth can police raid an empty drug house? How on earth could vikings raid a village when the people were out hunting? It's simple because being armed is part of what a raid is. killing people is not part of what a raid is.

[QUOTE=Itrme;43648508]There it is again, as I stated you UNAWARE if said occupants are on-line or not. You set out to RAID and are willing to engage if the occupants are on-line, whereas a burglar would check if the occupants were on-line first. I will make it really clear for you: - You raid a base - You don't know if it's empty or not - You aren't afraid of some shooting - You want all the loots. ??? Raiding[/QUOTE] Whether or not you're aware of them being in the house (Which is really weird to me since there are like no less than five ways in this thread alone listed to very if people are inside), once you reach and find out no one is there, and you start taking stuff? It's burglary. Your intention means nothing. I'm not sure why you keep reiterating that. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=iamcpc;43648542]Then how on earth can police raid an empty drug house?[/QUOTE] Come on iampc.. at least take the time to read posts. :/ This was already explained no less than two times. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=iamcpc;43648528]We have already established the fact that all raids are burglaries. We no longer need to understand what a burglary is. If you attack an empty base with shotguns, body armor, blow open the door, and take everything that is a RAID.[/QUOTE] What you bring to the "raid" has absolutely no bearing on whether or not its a raid. For the third time. You can raid with a rock. If you run into someones house while they have their door open, kill them with a rock and take their gear, you've successfully raided with a rock. What you bring has absolutely no bearing on the term whatsoever. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Piehole;43648518]Oh I see. Maybe the developer's can put a little light on top of each base. Green = Somebody's home and raiding is okay. Red = No one is home, and if you raid this house you will be labeled a Burglar....forever and ever.[/QUOTE] That'd be funny, but actually it's more interesting the severe, negative reaction people are having to being called a burglar. AstroSloth is clearly describing the act of burglary, but somehow believes calling it a raid makes him better? I'm not even sure what he thinks he's better than. Both acts are hostile. Both would be equally frowned upon in a civilized society. You're not any better or worse as a burglar or a raider. I wonder what drives people to such rage about being called a burglar?

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648544]What you bring to the "raid" has absolutely no bearing on whether or not its a raid. For the third time.[/QUOTE] Notice that each definition i have said, yet again, explain that they must be soldiers, armed, or troops which would indicate that what you brought to the house would determine if it was a raid or not. According to this definition it does: A surprise attack by a small [B]armed[/B] force. According to this definition it does: a sudden attack on an enemy by troops According to this definition it does: a surprise attack on an enemy by soldiers or other military forces Even in your original definition you explain that you have to be ARMED. as in you have WEAPONS.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648544]Whether or not you're aware of them being in the house (Which is really weird to me since there are like no less than five ways in this thread alone listed to very if people are inside), once you reach and find out no one is there, and you start taking stuff? It's burglary. Your intention means nothing. I'm not sure why you keep reiterating that. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] Come on iampc.. at least take the time to read posts. :/ This was already explained no less than two times. [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] What you bring to the "raid" has absolutely no bearing on whether or not its a raid. For the third time.[/QUOTE] You keep reasoning in circles, I don't know if it's intentional or not. If I was allowed to reason like this I'd be able to finish school in 2 years instead of 4. I'll try for the last time to make it clear: - You set out to an encampment of the enemy. - Your goal: Kill everyone there and to retrieve any useful materials. (Hey look, that's a RAID isn't it?) - Upon arriving you find out nobody is there, but you proceed regardless and successfully raided the encampment even though you did not get to kill anyone. Please tell me HOW can this not be a raid still?

[QUOTE=iamcpc;43648588]Notice that each definition i have said, yet again, explain that they must be soldiers, armed, or troops which would indicate that what you brought to the house would determine if it was a raid or not. According to this definition it does: A surprise attack by a small [B]armed[/B] force. According to this definition it does: a sudden attack on an enemy by troops According to this definition it does: a surprise attack on an enemy by soldiers or other military forces[/QUOTE] And you keep ignoring the definition of burglary, which again, is my point. You aren't reading the thread. Please re-read the thread and I'll be happy to explain it for the fourth time. All raids are burglaries. Not all burglaries are raids. I honestly have no idea how to make that any simpler for you.

[QUOTE] [editline]23rd January 2014[/editline] That'd be funny, but actually it's more interesting the severe, negative reaction people are having to being called a burglar. AstroSloth is clearly describing the act of burglary, but somehow believes calling it a raid makes him better? I'm not even sure what he thinks he's better than. Both acts are hostile. Both would be equally frowned upon in a civilized society. You're not any better or worse as a burglar or a raider. I wonder what drives people to such rage about being called a burglar?[/QUOTE] Please, please begin to explain yourself when you bring my name into things. You're just making yourself look worse with all of these false claims, kid.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648597]And you keep ignoring the definition of burglary, which again, is my point. You aren't reading the thread. Please re-read the thread and I'll be happy to explain it for the fourth time. All raids are burglaries. Not all burglaries are raids. I honestly have no idea how to make that any simpler for you.[/QUOTE] you just got done saying that what you bring to the house does not affect if it's a raid or not. yet you ignore, that in every definition i've given and every definition that you have given, it does mater what you have. YOU HAVE TO BE ARMED. An attack on an empty house is both a burglary and a raid. You can't comprehend that attacking an empty house and taking stuff, by definition, is a raid as well as a burglary.

[QUOTE=Itrme;43648594]You keep reasoning in circles, I don't know if it's intentional or not. If I was allowed to reason like this I'd be able to finish school in 2 years instead of 4. I'll try for the last time to make it clear: - You set out to an encampment of the enemy. - Your goal: Kill everyone there and to retrieve any useful materials. (Hey look, that's a RAID isn't it?) - Upon arriving you find out nobody is there, but you proceed regardless and successfully raided the encampment even though you did not get to kill anyone. Please tell me HOW can this not be a raid still?[/QUOTE] Because intention has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not its a raid. When you find no one there and begin looting the building, you are burglarizing. You are not engaging an enemy. Also, [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning[/url] Please stop telling everyone else they're reasoning in circles. By ignoring responses (for the fifth time, by the way) to already stated questions, that's exactly -what you're doing-. I know wikipedia is not a legitimate source, but honestly I've had to explain to you five times now that intention has nothing to do with the definitions of EITHER word, and I don't really want to try any harder to find a proper explanation for you.

[QUOTE=Scynix;43648597]And you keep ignoring the definition of burglary, which again, is my point. You aren't reading the thread. Please re-read the thread and I'll be happy to explain it for the fourth time. All raids are burglaries. Not all burglaries are raids. I honestly have no idea how to make that any simpler for you.[/QUOTE] I think [B]you[/B] need to re-read this thread. You chose to ignore a very important post. The idea that burglary is committing a crime/felony means that it doesn't exist in this game. There are no laws. No sort of legal organization to reprimand someone for committing any act. Therefore, they are all raids. Burglary is non-existent. I'm done with this thread. If you don't realize the above by now, you never will.