[QUOTE=BateMaster;44189831]My view on it is, why go through the annoyance of having to make an 80 floor tower maze with 200 doors to go through when it is basically unraidable as the suicide base? Saves me the 10 minutes of squeaky metal doors opening and closing.[/QUOTE]
Why should the raiders go through the annoyance of gathering and crafting a good supply of explosives to go raid a base properly when they can just use a super jump (that's in the game just like your suicide base) to save 85% of their explosives? It's the same as you, you're both exploiters.
So after all this arguing and peoples opinions, Id say its a 50/50 split between people who think its exploiting and people who think its creative base design.
Yup, but the guy who came up with the idea is the only one who's "creative" if any, not the ones who googled/youtubed how to copy a design for least amount of effort to play the game.
[editline]10th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rustypipe;44190912]There is a public PVE all you can build server that is pretty good. They have a /wood /c4 /whatever you need switches to test all base designs. I can get the IP when I get home if you need[/QUOTE]
What's the address for this server? The creative server I had in my list seems to be gone, I wanted to A. Test raiding an identical base to see if the couple suggestions here are true and B. prove I wasn't hacking and record taking no fall damage with the box jump. TY
Its an alpha so if it were my server make break and do what you have to do as long as its not using a 3rd party cheat /messing with thw recoil at all. The only way garry can see if something is a problem is if everyone did make a suicide base. How does that affect the game? Maybe it turns out the game is 4000 times better and garry decides to remove c4. Not saying it will happen and I dont want it to. I am saying this is an alpha do whatever the game allows and let the game change based on how it plays out. Its 10% done so everything can and will change. I have said it a lot but one more time for good measure this is an alpha abuse everything in game so it gets changed. Every admin who bans for suicide bases currently is doing admin abuse. You want people to play your version of rust.
I also think suicide bases are an exploitation of the game mechanics.
Why do do many people want to make themselves unraidable? It completely goes against the spirit of the game.
Granted, it's currently [I]possible[/I] to do, so even if it is an exploit in my mind if it's possible then I guess it's okay.
I'm excited for the day when this is no longer possible at all because quite frankly I think people that use suicide bases are just as bad as those that build bases under foundations or in rocks.
It's possible with the current game mechanics, too... so why is a rock base unnacceptable but not an unraidable base? Sounds like a stupid thought to me.
I am actually glad that people made suicide bases and that so many people look up the easily raided versions on youtube.
But there are some variants that seem unraidable without a form of exploiting. The geometry issue on the large storage is an obvious exploit but the OP has also claimed that Christmas tree barricades is an exploit. If OP is going to call any type of building an exploit I am pretty sure the suicide base would have to fall into that category as well. To me it is an Alpha and people being creative (and then everyone copying the original creativity) will lead to a better game. Maybe the developers will look at ways to prevent these types of bases and make every base subject to a raid.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44192804]I also think suicide bases are an exploitation of the game mechanics.
Why do do many people want to make themselves unraidable? It completely goes against the spirit of the game.
Granted, it's currently [I]possible[/I] to do, so even if it is an exploit in my mind if it's possible then I guess it's okay.
I'm excited for the day when this is no longer possible at all because quite frankly I think people that use suicide bases are just as bad as those that build bases under foundations or in rocks.
It's possible with the current game mechanics, too... so why is a rock base unnacceptable but not an unraidable base? Sounds like a stupid thought to me.[/QUOTE]
A base inside rocks is an unintended game feature. A suicide base is using intended game features in a way players dont like. That being said if both dont get used how will garry ever know to change them or keep them. I think a suicide base is a good way for the solo man to have a place in the rust universe.
[QUOTE=Totals;44192880]A base inside rocks is an unintended game feature. A suicide base is using intended game features in a way players dont like. That being said if both dont get used how will garry ever know to change them or keep them. I think a suicide base is a good way for the solo man to have a place in the rust universe.[/QUOTE]
I mostly agree, I'm sure that this will not be something that's possible later on in development.
However, while a suicide base isn't necessarily always using unintended mechanics, the most prominent ones with a large storage through the door is most certainly taking advantage of an exploit.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44192908]I mostly agree, I'm sure that this will not be something that's possible later on in development.
However, while a suicide base isn't necessarily always using unintended mechanics, the most prominent ones with a large storage through the door is most certainly taking advantage of an exploit.[/QUOTE]
Yea I take the stance in games of let the developers worry if something should be possible. They know whats going on. They could make suicide bases a none existent thing in 30 seconds if they wanted, so whats stopping them? I think people are playing rust for fun. I play rust to find bugs, exploits and have fun doing so. If no one found these they would end up in the final product and then it becomes a larger issue.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44192804]
Why do do many people want to make themselves unraidable?
[/QUOTE]
Because they don't want to lose all of their stuff in a raid?
[QUOTE=Galen;44193148]Because they don't want to lose all of their stuff in a raid?[/QUOTE]
But why should people raid when they can't win anything?
[QUOTE=Galen;44193148]Because they don't want to lose all of their stuff in a raid?[/QUOTE]
Rust clearly isn't a game for them then.
I don't think the suicide base is an exploit. The transfer method usually used to get items into the suicide base is though. (Jump, open a box mid air, drop items in while holding the box inventory open after landing)
IMO they should patch the ability to hold boxes open after jumping up to them (transfer method), the large box jump exploit, and pillar/barricade stacking. If they patch the transfer method, suicide bases are far less useful.
I had about 5 suicide bases in the past...each one was raided because someone else got craftier than I expected. I gave up with chasing the perfect exploit and built a 7X7X15 out of wood....if someone wants to use 1400+ C4 to clear my base....have fun.
Suicide bases are stupid and I say anything goes against someone who made one.
Bases are made to be raided. It is part of the game.
[QUOTE=BateMaster;44189831]My view on it is, why go through the annoyance of having to make an 80 floor tower maze with 200 doors to go through when it is basically unraidable as the suicide base? Saves me the 10 minutes of squeaky metal doors opening and closing.[/QUOTE]
Why go though the trouble of collecting materials to build a base at all? Why not just use cheats and spawn them.
When I see a Suicide base I C4 down the crate door and pitch grenades in until there's no furniture inside. Then I grenade any barricades they would use to drop down from upper stories. If they have enough materials in the upper levels to keep that base going, I do it again until they decide that their tired of it or run out of materials and go elsewhere.
Suicide bases violate the spirit of the game, and while I won't use any glitches so that I can take the materials they've gathered, I also don't see any reason not to expend large quantities of my own resources to destroy theirs.
[QUOTE=Clawdius;44195319]When I see a Suicide base I C4 down the crate door and pitch grenades in until there's no furniture inside. Then I grenade any barricades they would use to drop down from upper stories. If they have enough materials in the upper levels to keep that base going, I do it again until they decide that their tired of it or run out of materials and go elsewhere.
Suicide bases violate the spirit of the game, and while I won't use any glitches so that I can take the materials they've gathered, I also don't see any reason not to expend large quantities of my own resources to destroy theirs.[/QUOTE]
Once you C4 down the crate door, you should be able to jump off a barricade and drop a sleeping bag on the edge of the foundation right inside the door...just an FYI ;)
[QUOTE=almosttactful;44195465]Once you C4 down the crate door, you should be able to jump off a barricade and drop a sleeping bag on the edge of the foundation right inside the door...just an FYI ;)[/QUOTE]
I'll have to keep that in mind, the last time I did this we had just moved to a new server so I was basically just blowing through a ton of our built up supplies for my own amusement, but on a server I had intended to continue playing this would have been the way to go, certainly.
[QUOTE=Clawdius;44195537]I'll have to keep that in mind, the last time I did this we had just moved to a new server so I was basically just blowing through a ton of our built up supplies for my own amusement, but on a server I had intended to continue playing this would have been the way to go, certainly.[/QUOTE]
Yep...makes it easy to make it your own base too and take over lol :)
[QUOTE=DavidBowie;44189766]defending and raiding bases is a core mechanic, and the only real endgame. you are attempting to remove a key element of risk and danger from the game. creating a base that is impossible to raid defeats the point of rust.[/QUOTE]
If the game gives him the ability to build an unraidable base without using remove or sth. it is his choice if he wants to have the risk and danger to get raided or not. There is nothing wrong to use the given environment to your advantage that the programmer has influence on. If you dont want unraidable bases go on a server where it is forbidden, like all the guys pissed of by fcking "First Day Nude Raiders" get to hear: "Go to a PVE server, this is a survival game..." :pwn: If people set their gamma to see at night. That is cheating! Because you manipulate the given environment to your advantage in a way that the programmer can not influence!
And dude, to be honest... At the current state Rust has no point... ;-)
[QUOTE=BSOA;44193521]I don't think the suicide base is an exploit. The transfer method usually used to get items into the suicide base is though. (Jump, open a box mid air, drop items in while holding the box inventory open after landing)
IMO they should patch the ability to hold boxes open after jumping up to them (transfer method), the large box jump exploit, and pillar/barricade stacking. If they patch the transfer method, suicide bases are far less useful.[/QUOTE]
AGREE!
[QUOTE=WLR;44190080]For a survival game wilfully committing suicide seems a little odd.
I see it as an exploit and a bit sad.[/QUOTE]
I fully agree with you. Rust should work a bit like the Hardcore Mode in Minecraft. If you die, your state is completely lost, your base is gone etc. "Try again pls!" That would help alot against those careless gunner kids currently shooting on everything in sight. Lets make it clear: Its a survival game! It should simulate what will happen if you have to survive in the real world in that situation. And god would you be pissed if you recognize that you don't respawn in your bed all time you die. :rolleyes:
It's funny. I keep hearing this "anything that prevents me from taking your stuff whenever I want ruins the spirit of the game" crap. Funny as hell. Your sense of entitlement is astounding. It has nothing else to do with this tactic being seen as an exploit. It just really frustrates the hell out of you.
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[QUOTE=Beast Mastese;44197068]It's funny. I keep hearing this "anything that prevents me from taking your stuff whenever I want ruins the spirit of the game" crap. Funny as hell. Your sense of entitlement is astounding. It has nothing else to do with this tactic being seen as an exploit. It just really frustrates the hell out of you.[/QUOTE]
I'm the one that's entitled? I don't try to make myself 100% safe in a game that clearly is trying to make people as unsafe as possible.
[QUOTE=Sievers808;44197150]I'm the one that's entitled? I don't try to make myself 100% safe in a game that clearly is trying to make people as unsafe as possible.[/QUOTE]
Yep, it's apparent you feel very strongly that way, consciously or not. The dev's clearly also stated that the game should be whatever people make of it...no defined directives are provided to you, so it is what it is. I completely understand your frustration though. It's not aligned to your perception of reality, which is...ok.
[QUOTE=Beast Mastese;44197727]Yep, it's apparent you feel very strongly that way, consciously or not. The dev's clearly also stated that the game should be whatever people make of it...no defined directives are provided to you, so it is what it is. I completely understand your frustration though. It's not aligned to your perception of reality, which is...ok.[/QUOTE]
Why are you trying so hard to sound super smart?
Yes, of course it's apparent that I feel that way.... because I just told you how I feel. And yes, it's conscious. I don't know why that needs to be said.
I agree that the game should be what people make of it, that doesn't mean that I can't have opinions about these kinds of things just like you.
Perception of reality... what the actual fuck are you even talking about? :zoid:
The concept of a suicide base violates the spirit of Rust, it's disingenuous to say otherwise. If the idea behind Rust was that your loot should be safe in your base, then satchel charges wouldn't exist. If you want to play on a server where satchel charges don't exist, that's your prerogative, but playing on a server where they do exist and utilizing an oddity in the current system to stash all your stuff in a place where you have to suicide to get inside is basically saying that you should be able to raid other people's bases but they shouldn't be able to raid yours.
But that's fine, you build your suicide bases, and people like me will destroy every bit of them that we can with C4 and grenades just to spite you.
The way to fix suicide bases is simple, change crates so they cannot be placed on pillars, and cannot be placed in such a method that they will clip through a doorway or door, kinda like how you can't place spike barricades within a certain range of a door, and you can't place barricades on top of shelters, both existing mechanics in game, just modify them a bit and poof, suicide bases are gone right?
Suicide bases are not even close to unraidable, just to the average person who would build a foundation / stair and start blowing in. That may change when barricade scaling and the storage box jump are both fixed however
There is a difference between using an exploit, and taking advantage of a feature. Maybe it's not the so-called "preferred" use of suiciding, but it's not an exploit. An exploit makes use of a bug.
Using the large storage box bug to jump really high? That's an exploit.
Using a suicide base? That is well within the realm of fully working features.
I won't pretend that suicide bases aren't lame, because they are. Suiciding to enter your base is cowards play at best. However, these players should most definitely not be put in the same bucket as a hacker/exploiter. That is a whole different bucket altogether.
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