Something needs to change . .. - Rust

[QUOTE=infusednz;44845854]Still pretty popular on our server. 20-30 people is a good game balance. We found over 50 it was just a gankfest.[/QUOTE] Yeah the currently map is too small for 50-100 players. 30-50 players is pushing it. The small size of the map and players getting bored are the 2 main reasons the game has turned into a deathmatch arena. Lets hope the procedural maps are 2-3 times as big as the alpha map is now or it'll be the same thing all over again. I also think the devs need to focus on A vision they have for the game instead of having none at all. It would solve a lot of problems when the players know what the game is actually about compared to this direction-less game we have now.

[QUOTE=fullylaced23;44819891]Come on guys, you all know this. This game is slowly dying, and I also know how everyone says "We want a dedicated fan base, that will stay forever" and "Its alpha". Well in case you don't believe check this link [url]http://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All[/url] (This link basically explains it all). Some serious Dev decisions really need to be re-thought. First of all no zombies anymore? I know you guys don't want to be a "Dayz clone" well news flash just because a game has zombies doesn't mean its a straight rip off of dayz. Because of these changes people like Uberhaxornova and Summit1g have quit the game because of it. Also everyone just shoots on sight, there needs to be some reason not to shoot someone. Well there you go im gonna say it again re-think some of the decisions you have been making. If these are the decisions you guys are making leading up to the Beta release and eventually a full on release this game wont get anywhere.[/QUOTE] REALLY do you follow nothing they are rewriting the whole freaking game

[QUOTE=seabass315;44820677]Yup... people run up to me and i just back away from then... next thing you know am dead from a pipe shotgun or a machine gun. This game is DONE... its like Infestation now... nothing but hackers and griefers. As it stands right now if you run into anyone 99% of the time they will kill you... not with a rock or axe... nope.. with a gun. [/QUOTE] So, I'm playing this awesome game called Rust. It doesn't seem like you've ever played it before - You really should download it. It's annoying to see noobs complaining about death - This is rust, not minecraft. I'd have loved to see you play rust when there was only the official servers w/ all the dupe bugs... Not only did the servers wipe near-to-daily, but just about every second person was running around killing naked with M4s. (I should note that back then, creating an M4 was only 200 metal fragments, the same price as a metal door)

For the game to be considered dying, it has to have been "alive" at some point, which would imply it was released as a final product. The Friday DevBlogs show that the game has been completely revamped from the ground up, so clearly that is not the case. They could have patched the current iteration of the game, yes - or, they could have ripped off the bandaid and started from a much more solid foundation. Which they did, and it will be a better game for it.

It's interesting to note from chat in-game just how many people DON'T realise that they're playing an alpha game and that the final product is being developed elsewhere (the new experimental branch). Many people I've met expect the improvements to be made to the version they're playing. I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed faces around when the penny drops and they realise that the 5x5x50 base and 500 C4 they've been cultivating are going the way of the Dodo into extinction ;) Not sure what this says about the longevity of the game and its player base, but I'm sure it's something profound.

It says that the reason Early Access will fail is not the lack of quality control on the store, but because Steam users seem incapable of grasping that the development process is actually a thing and games don't spring out of the vaginas of development studios fully formed and debugged out of nothing. Reading actually is too hard for this subforum, most of the time.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44850270]It says that the reason Early Access will fail is not the lack of quality control on the store, but because Steam users seem incapable of grasping that the development process is actually a thing and games don't spring out of the vaginas of development studios fully formed and debugged out of nothing. Reading actually is too hard for this subforum, most of the time.[/QUOTE] True. It's easy to berate people who don't read the information presented to them. But a LOT of people don't read the information presented to them. Hence so many people's expectations and frustrations of Rust are out of proportion. You can get angry with these people. But that doesn't mean they're not out there and growing in numbers... a bit like zombies ;)

Who the fuck is Uberhaxornova and Summit1g and why do I give a shit if they play or not?

[QUOTE=Kurogo;44851635]Who the fuck is Uberhaxornova and Summit1g and why do I give a shit if they play or not?[/QUOTE] I was wondering the same thing... I've never heard of these two people.

my 11 year old son says Uberhaxornova is a "famous" youtuber

[QUOTE=hippowombat;44824301]Here's a repeat of an earlier post I did because I don't feel like retyping it. Comparison time: Battlefield 4 - DICE [URL="http://answers.ea.com/t5/Battlefield-4/Battlefield-4-start-production-date-How-long-did-it-take-to-make/td-p/1641059"]started production shortly before BF3 was finished[/URL], so sometime before October 2011. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_4"]Release date October 2013[/URL]. At the very least 2 years were spent by [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_4"]a team of [B]518 people[/B][/URL]. Facepunch (according to their [URL="https://trello.com/playrust/members"]Trello page[/URL]) currently has [U]20 staff members working on Rust[/U]. [B][U]20.[/U][/B] Expecting the game to be polished and perfect when production began almost a year ago is completely unrealistic and silly. As for not taking any player suggestions, have we all forgotten about the [URL="http://radmin.elasticbeanstalk.com/itemeditor/"]item editor site[/URL] that Garry's still working on? Some items from that have already been confirmed as being added to the game, the only reason why we're not seeing them pop up left and right is because, as mentioned above, [URL="http://playrust.com/friday-devblog/"]they're working on replacing the shitty placeholder code with future proof code[/URL]. This takes time, but they're chugging along, again, just look at their Trello page. Essentially: The game isn't dead. It's barely even alive. As for early access, it's not a cop-out, it's a legitimate reason. No one made you buy this game before it was finished, and it's unfair to shit on the devs because it's not finished yet, given their team size and time spent working on it.[/QUOTE] This is like comparing building a skyscraper to furnishing it. Frostbite 3 was developed to be used in BF4 therefore the time and number of people to do so would obviously be more. However Rust is being developed with Unity an already functional engine and they are using several 3rd party tools. As seen with the networking fiasco that occurred a few months ago with the D Dos attacks and having to wait for the parties involved to fix the issue. As well as the GUI. Therefore the development process should be a lot quicker as well as require a lot less people. Not to mention there is no story to Rust no advertising group. That alone reduces the number of people needed to work on the game. The fact of the matter is the initial design phase for rust was not well though out. Things were not discussed prior or put down in any sort of cohesive design document in detail. It seems to me it was a more fly by pants and do stuff that was interesting at the time. Such as removing the zombies and then just coloring the current wildlife red. This fly by pants mentality is what has led to the current rebuilding of the whole core of the game. If they had figured out what they needed ahead of time they wouldn't have to have gone back and pretty much refactor the whole codebase in order to add what they would like to later. This is also further seen during the latest update of Rust where they are showing a Rocket Launcher. Ive read where they say they are getting "rid of the modern military weapons and going with something more rustic." However here we are being shown a Rocket launcher. Not to mention the helicopter that was developed but never released. This is all "eye candy" just stuff to get people talking and to get people excited. Honestly Rust in its current state is not an alpha but rather a prototype and a experiment on pvp gameplay. We are the investors and we were shown the prototype and bought into it. So why not offer it for free apparently Garry doesn't need the money... "To me this isn't a big deal because I'm rich as fuck—so I'm more likely to just buy the latest model instead of trying to get 10fps extra in BF4 by upgrading the graphics card." -http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/05/05/show-us-your-rig-rust-creator-garry-newman/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

No, stop calling yourself an "investor" in Rust. Also, prototyping is incredibly important. I don't think it's fair to criticize the devs for prototyping. Rust wasn't supposed to get nearly this popular this early. Game development looks a lot different when you're this early in the development cycle, and a lot of people have trouble recognizing this.

[QUOTE=Dionysus9;44851731]my 11 year old son says Uberhaxornova is a "famous" youtuber[/QUOTE] seeems pretty famous to me with like 2 milion subscribers or something, not sure why youtubers not playing some game is a problem tho

[QUOTE=Sir Walrus;44861820]seeems pretty famous to me with like 2 milion subscribers or something, not sure why youtubers not playing some game is a problem tho[/QUOTE] Haven't you heard? If a famous youtuber stops playing your game, it'll wither and die and you'll go bankrupt. Fortunately, garry is smarter than the average Rust player.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44861466]No, stop calling yourself an "investor" in Rust. Also, prototyping is incredibly important. I don't think it's fair to criticize the devs for prototyping. Rust wasn't supposed to get nearly this popular this early. Game development looks a lot different when you're this early in the development cycle, and a lot of people have trouble recognizing this.[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure you understand how the development process works. A prototype is created in order to entice investors and or show a general game-play idea or mechanic. Which is what Rust was. Therefore yes I was an investor. If the game was in an alpha state then there would not have needed such an overhaul on the game core in the first place. It is easy to say "Oh we didn't think it would be so popular". That is such a ludicrous statement. The purpose of developing a product is because you want people to buy it. If they really wanted to limit the number of purchases then they could of easily done so. However it was not done. In fact even when the game couldn't even be played for a week due to ddos; the game was still up for sale. My criticism is not that its a prototype its that it appears to have just been put on the market. Everyone says clearly it states its in alpha state and changes will be made upon purchase. However this is a blanket statement that can encompass many things. Do not get me wrong I got more then my 20 bucks out of this game as I have over 1100 hours on Rust be it a prototype or not. However to ignore how mishandled the game has been is a different matter. Then to read a statement of Garry saying hes "rich as fuck" is very disconcerting. Its just not good business practice.

[QUOTE=xevoxe;44862445]If they really wanted to limit the number of purchases then they could of easily done so. However it was not done.[/QUOTE] Oh, but it was, before the game was available on Steam, before you registered here. And it didn't work well at all; the forum was being flooded with demand that outpaced key supply by like 30x and that's only a slight exaggeration. No, you're not an investor. You have no equity in this venture. You preordered the game, that's all you did. Don't delude yourself otherwise.

[QUOTE=xevoxe;44862445]I'm not quite sure you understand how the development process works. A prototype is created in order to entice investors and or show a general game-play idea or mechanic. Which is what Rust was. Therefore yes I was an investor. If the game was in an alpha state then there would not have needed such an overhaul on the game core in the first place. It is easy to say "Oh we didn't think it would be so popular". That is such a ludicrous statement. The purpose of developing a product is because you want people to buy it. If they really wanted to limit the number of purchases then they could of easily done so. However it was not done. In fact even when the game couldn't even be played for a week due to ddos; the game was still up for sale. My criticism is not that its a prototype its that it appears to have just been put on the market. Everyone says clearly it states its in alpha state and changes will be made upon purchase. However this is a blanket statement that can encompass many things. Do not get me wrong I got more then my 20 bucks out of this game as I have over 1100 hours on Rust be it a prototype or not. However to ignore how mishandled the game has been is a different matter. Then to read a statement of Garry saying hes "rich as fuck" is very disconcerting. Its just not good business practice.[/QUOTE] You aren't an investor. You bought a licence to play the game. That's all. Valve for instance can void your licence at any time for any reason. So you keep on thinking you are an investor every time you buy a game lol. Silly kid.

Investors expect a financial return for their investment. You just bought a video game that wasn't finished. Two very different things, one of them just happens to make people feel much more entitled than they should.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44862491]Oh, but it was, before the game was available on Steam, before you registered here. And it didn't work well at all; the forum was being flooded with demand that outpaced key supply by like 30x and that's only a slight exaggeration. No, you're not an investor. You have no equity in this venture. You preordered the game, that's all you did. Don't delude yourself otherwise.[/QUOTE] So you prove my point. Putting the game up for sell and saying don't buy it was total rubbish. You are missing the point of the post in its entirety. I at no point assumed I would have monetary gain. However I did purchase for $20 a "license" for an unfinished game therefore making an investment in order to support the game. If I invest my time in studying then my gain is better grades. This does not mean monetary gain has to be mutually exclusive and the only motive. In any case you guys missed the whole point of the post. The handling of the development was done poorly and could have been better. Which is my only complaint. You can be fan boys all you want but facts are facts. Picking out small parts of my post to try to undermine me doesn't accomplish much. I did however learn something new from this so I will at least take something away from it. In the end its my opinion that I have invested in this game so it really doesn't matter what you have to say.

[QUOTE=xevoxe;44863087]So you prove my point. Putting the game up for sell and saying don't buy it was total rubbish. You are missing the point of the post in its entirety. I at no point assumed I would have monetary gain. However I did purchase for $20 a "license" for an unfinished game therefore making an investment in order to support the game. If I invest my time in studying then my gain is better grades. This does not mean monetary gain has to be mutually exclusive and the only motive. In any case you guys missed the whole point of the post. The handling of the development was done poorly and could have been better. Which is my only complaint. You can be fan boys all you want but facts are facts. Picking out small parts of my post to try to undermine me doesn't accomplish much. I did however learn something new from this so I will at least take something away from it. In the end its my opinion that I have invested in this game so it really doesn't matter what you have to say.[/QUOTE] We've heard this all before. You certainly aren't the first person to have this thought. You can whine about it all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you're butthurt because you bought a game that was unfinished even though you were thoroughly warned beforehand. If you enjoy the game then quit bitching and just wait for the experimental branch to get finished, just like the rest of us. If you don't enjoy it then why keep talking about it? I don't understand what all of your infinite wisdom has to do with anything at this point. Hindsight is always 20/20 but people still won't read the "Early Access" warning before clicking the buy button.

[QUOTE=xevoxe;44863087]So you prove my point. Putting the game up for sell and saying don't buy it was total rubbish. You are missing the point of the post in its entirety. I at no point assumed I would have monetary gain. However I did purchase for $20 a "license" for an unfinished game therefore making an investment in order to support the game. If I invest my time in studying then my gain is better grades. This does not mean monetary gain has to be mutually exclusive and the only motive. In any case you guys missed the whole point of the post. The handling of the development was done poorly and could have been better. Which is my only complaint. You can be fan boys all you want but facts are facts. Picking out small parts of my post to try to undermine me doesn't accomplish much. I did however learn something new from this so I will at least take something away from it. In the end its my opinion that I have invested in this game so it really doesn't matter what you have to say.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but your post was very arrogant to begin with. You had an apparent delusion that your $20 was an investment in order to support the game. The developer at Facepunch could survive without your opinion, and support in the first place. If you had actually taken the time to study like you said earlier for better grades... what grade would we give you for your rubbish posts?

[QUOTE=TheQuagmire;44863172]Sorry, but your post was very arrogant to begin with. You had an apparent delusion that your $20 was an investment in order to support the game. The developer at Facepunch could survive without your opinion, and support in the first place. If you had actually taken the time to study like you said earlier for better grades... what grade would we give you for your rubbish posts?[/QUOTE] I guess anytime anyone makes a legitimate claim it is automatically arrogant. Seeing how the purpose of this thread in general is something needs to change and that was my opinion of it. I could care less what you feel or believe this is a forum and I posted what I felt. I didn't force you to read it. Hell I didn't even force you to reply to it yet you continue to do so. As you continue to with your so called insults without actually putting any thought into what you have to say. At the end of the day Ive got my money worth out of it and will continue to do so. It seems though with the fan boys out there the "developer" at Facepunch wont need to have to worry about changing anything.

Let's make this graphic so most of the smart asses yapping the "IT'S AN ALPHA GET OVER IT" can understand the ranting of the so-called illiterate majority. Let's imagine a contractor sells you a house currently being built. The basement is somewhat finished and he tells you you can stay in it while he completes the other floors above. You're expecting it to be done in a reasonnable amount of time right? Still, this contractor rarely even shows up, he nails a plank or two and replaces some tiles he put in the first place by some other tiles of a different color. Then, he stops showing up for several week. You realize after a while he built shitty foundations in the place he sold you and that he's building another house somewhere else you'll eventually be able to switch to several months later, in the mean time, stay in the shithole you paid for expecting it to improve with time. Would you still be as docile and submissive as you are right now towards the Almighty Gods of Facepunch? I'm not saying their company should be burned to the ground, I'm saying the insatisfaction toward their management and deadlines should be even more generalized. When you buy a product, it is only being a responsible consummer to demand a decent quality level.

[QUOTE=Aragor;44864558]Let's make this graphic so most of the smart asses yapping the "IT'S AN ALPHA GET OVER IT" can understand the ranting of the so-called illiterate majority. Let's imagine a contractor sells you a house currently being built. The basement is somewhat finished and he tells you you can stay in it while he completes the other floors above. You're expecting it to be done in a reasonnable amount of time right? Still, this contractor rarely even shows up, he nails a plank or two and replaces some tiles he put in the first place by some other tiles of a different color. Then, he stops showing up for several week. You realize after a while he built shitty foundations in the place he sold you and that he's building another house somewhere else you'll eventually be able to switch to several months later, in the mean time, stay in the shithole you paid for expecting it to improve with time. Would you still be as docile and submissive as you are right now towards the Almighty Gods of Facepunch? I'm not saying their company should be burned to the ground, I'm saying the insatisfaction toward their management and deadlines should be even more generalized. When you buy a product, it is only being a responsible consummer to demand a decent quality level.[/QUOTE] Being made to live in a house that is incomplete is not even comparable to a video game that isn't done. Always with the hyperbolic metaphors that don't mean anything...

[QUOTE=Brute_Force;44833144]i think we can all agree zombies being replaces by radiated animals was completely stupid and unnecessary[/QUOTE] Agreed. While I think its cool that they don't want Rust to be a clone of DayZ, I reckon they could have left the zombies in [I]as[/I] place holders until they worked out what to do rather than removing zombies and replacing with mutant bears. I had alot more fun dodging zombies.

When you buy an (alpha) game, the only right you have is to play it. Nothing more needs to be said.

[QUOTE=Sir Walrus;44861820]seeems pretty famous to me with like 2 milion subscribers or something, not sure why youtubers not playing some game is a problem tho[/QUOTE] wait so a bunch of twelvies will stop playing if these guys stop playing?? PROBLEM SOLVED!!:D [editline]21st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Aragor;44864558]Let's imagine a contractor sells you a house currently being built...[/QUOTE] nice metaphor, but inaccurate in that the price you pay for the basement is equal to the investment. a smart investor wouldn't pay full price for a house that may or not be completed, and in which the design is still being debated. in this case, you have paid a mutually agreed upon price considering the incomplete nature of the game, and potential for the design to change...the price even represents that this game is not only NOT IN BETA(ie testing phase) but in ALPHA(programming phase); a lot of games in alpha are not in a functional state, and never get completed. its true that a consumer has the right to expect a good quality product, but you get what you pay for. no personalised ferrari's for the price of a hatchback in this life, unless you know someone with a bit of bargaining power. and a lot of people complaining that this game isnt being completed fast enough need to pack their entitled bullshit into a sack and drown it.