Racism - Rust - Facepunch Forum

I can't believe that for some people the solution to racism when you are black is to become white ... Humankind will always surprise me. You can't stand being insulted by a two-neurons in a videogame ? Maybe you should get out and test real life + real social interactions. You'll see how much more "broken"/"unfair"/"unbalanced"/whatever it is. That + try to get into the shoes of those targeted by racists in real life (you know, "empathy" ...). It's far worst than what you may think. This new "race you can't change" system is one of the best ideas garry ever had for this game. As already pointed by others what's great about this system vs real life is that you can do whatever you want to those racist m****. I would have liked to get a black character just for that ! [B]Rust just gave some people the opportunity to grow a third neuron.[/B]

I hope one day we can "grow" a "third neuron" like you. I think we should call off the "I'm better than thou" tone and try something better.

[Quote] [editline]16th March 2015[/editline] A little of column A, a little of column B. More than anything, I just wasn't going to let douchebags ruin my good time, and I wanted to have fun at their expense. And I totally did have a blast. As for the real life Black Panthers, yeah, they can be. I think it tends to be more of an over-reaction to history and modern racism in politics and black folks being hassled in their day-to-day lives (stop and frisk and its sister-programs across the country) rather than any actual disdain for white people, in most cases though.[/QUOTE] I think my favourite example, is that when Obama was running for his first presidential term, the Black Panthers would stand guard at a lot of the official voting areas, and would flat-out chase white people away, and/or would beat the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama. Not sure how their organization as a whole is representative of these days, but through my experiences, they are as violent and ignorant as any other hate group.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47334198] Whichever it was, I find that solution particularly funny, as living in the south has shown me, time and time again, that the modern Black Panthers are about as racist as they come, and are much larger than the KKK are these days. :P[/QUOTE] I think the term racist has lost a lot of meaning. Black panthers may be (I have no direct experience with them) angry at white people, and may be hyperbolic in their speech, but that is not racism like the KKK. The KKK believes that black people are inferior by virtue of being black or that they are sub-human. That is more disgusting in my opinion. [editline]16th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47334720] the Black Panthers would stand guard at a lot of the official voting areas, and would flat-out chase white people away, and/or would beat the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama.[/QUOTE] This of course is unfounded and an exaggerated characterization of a single incident that happened in Philadelphia, and there wasn't a single report of the black panther in question 'beating the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama'. This type of dialog is a common theme of trying to claim a false equivalence by saying 'see there are black racists too' as if that somehow is a pass for all the white racists.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47334720]I think my favourite example, is that when Obama was running for his first presidential term, the Black Panthers would stand guard at a lot of the official voting areas, and would flat-out chase white people away, and/or would beat the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama. Not sure how their organization as a whole is representative of these days, but through my experiences, they are as violent and ignorant as any other hate group.[/QUOTE] Oh. I remember when all that happened. I thought it was just the one polling station outside of Philly, right? Those guys were prosecuted for voter intimidation (though maybe not convicted -- not sure). I didn't realize it was more wide-spread. I'll have to read up on that.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;47334740]I think the term racist has lost a lot of meaning. Black panthers may be (I have no direct experience with them) angry at white people, and may be hyperbolic in their speech, but that is not racism like the KKK. The KKK believes that black people are inferior by virtue of being black or that they are sub-human. That is more disgusting in my opinion. [editline]16th March 2015[/editline] This of course is unfounded and an exaggerated characterization of a single incident that happened in Philadelphia, and there wasn't a single report of the black panther in question 'beating the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama'. This type of dialog is a common theme of trying to claim a false equivalence by saying 'see there are black racists too' as if that somehow is a pass for all the white racists.[/QUOTE] You admit to not having any experience with the Black Panthers, yet you imply that I am liar, and that my allegations are unfounded? As I said earlier: in my personal experiences, with the voter intimidation being a single example (key-word being 'single), I find the Black Panthers to be a hate-group. Whether you believe me or not, is not really my problem. I just find it telling when you admit to your ignorance, yet pretend as if your ignorance = knowledge. As for them not being racist, maybe you should brush up on what racism means in all contexts. I can tell, just doing a basic Google search, that you quickly looked up the term, and just about copied the first example you saw. If not, then that is still the implication given, and I implore you to look up alternative contexts, as racism means many things - not just over perceived racial inferiority/superiority.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47335574]You admit to not having any experience with the Black Panthers, yet you imply that I am liar, and that my allegations are unfounded?[/QUOTE] I don't have to have any personal experience with the Black Panthers to know that your characterization of the 2008 elections WERE unfounded, because I followed that case when it happened, and did some googling to make sure my recollection was sound. I was riffing off of your use of through my experiences'. Do you have direct personal experience with Black Panthers? Liar? I didn't claim that, exaggerator at the very least though. Also, see the difference between a racist and a bigot. Nuance can be difficult.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;47335614]I don't have to have any personal experience with the Black Panthers to know that your characterization of the 2008 elections WERE unfounded, because I followed that case when it happened, and did some googling to make sure my recollection was sound. I was riffing off of your use of through my experiences'. Do you have direct personal experience with Black Panthers? Liar? I didn't claim that, exaggerator at the very least though. Also, see the difference between a racist and a bigot. Nuance can be difficult.[/QUOTE] It always cracks me up when someone reads a couple news articles, watches the ever-biased news, maybe reads the Wikipedia article, and then acts as if they were there in the fire itself. So three things, and then I have to head off to work: 1. Saying that I am exaggerating or stretching the truth, is the candy-assed way of calling me a liar without actually saying 'Liar'. Do not beat around the bush. 2. Yes; down here in Tennessee, we have had issues with the Black Panthers, over more than just the presidential elections. Thankfully, we did not have any issues during Obama's 2nd running. 3. Hatred is hatred, and makes up the base of all racism in the world. When you target a specific race, in any form or fashion, that is a text-book example of good ol' fashioned racism. You do not have to think of the other race as inferior/superior - you simply have to hate them. Saying there is a difference between racism and bigotry, is semantics, and I will not play lawyer with you over terms that are not mutually exclusive to each other.

I would argue that racism is a product of ignorance rather than hatred.

[QUOTE=frank_walls;47335696]I would argue that racism is a product of ignorance rather than hatred.[/QUOTE] Ignorance implies that there might be justification for hate, as ignorance means they have a lack of knowledge towards what they are doing. Ignorance is certainly a key-factor, as many people are racist for no real reason outside of circular logic. But when it comes to larger hate-groups and organizations, there is usually an established foundation that would amount to a religion/cult, in many aspects. But I digress: it all comes down to perspective. Any further than that, and we start getting existential. ;)

OP where were you before the skin colors were implemented ? people called others "niggers" "white trash" and all the other ones that I could fill a page with 100k times when we were all white bald clones ,yet I didn't see any post then of you complaining about it. Now suddenly that they added skin color to the in-game models you suddenly notice it

[QUOTE=deputydawg;47322244]Please tell me how my post is dumb? If racism is OK, and after complaining the first time I was told "It's 2015, people can call other people 'nigger'", then Rust isn't a game I want to play. And I think that's a shame because before the change with this skin colour patch, I have thoroughly enjoyed my time on Rust. I just think this takes the game backwards.[/QUOTE] You are fine with murdering naked men, who rant obsenities but you draw the line at racism? I could not help but chuckle at this post.

Actually, he was fine with racism until they game made people call him names.

All this hate over coloured pixels. No wonder the World seems to be going to hell in a handbasket.

[QUOTE=frank_walls;47335696]I would argue that racism is a product of ignorance rather than hatred.[/QUOTE] I'd assert that it can be caused by both. "Latin Americans in the USA are all illegals," might be a belief somebody honestly has -- it's wrong, but I don't think that comment necessarily implies any disdain for the race. "Black people are all criminals," though, denotes a distaste for that race. That would be hatred at play. And I don't know if it's relevant, but we're all passively racist. Black people polled distrust [I]other black people[/I] more than any other demographic, as ironic as that sounds. It's one of those issues that once you understand the problem, you can evaluate your own beliefs and see where you're complicit with the stereotypes without any conscious, ill intention (and if anybody demands I cite sources, I totally can). That's why when I run into this kind of behavior, I just think, "awh, that poor dumb person," and shrug. There's probably not a lot of ill-will, and these kids don't understand that what they're saying reflects more on their actual attitudes towards minorities than they realize, and serves as evidence that we all still have a fairly tribal mentality. We simply aren't built to accept an out-group without serious intellectual reflection. Also, despite all the anger on this issue, this topic itself serves to show that even something as silly as a video-game update can yield real conversation on a topic that badly needs it.

This post is heading towards a fourth page. Its obvious that racism is an issue to communities be it gaming or real life. At the end of the day, there are two sides. The hope is that the majority demonstrate virtues and respect for their fellow human (Newman) and the minority are enlightened to what is worldly beneficial to all. There is very little benefit in conflict for the sake of conflict, unless you happen upon their big stash of ore and wood :)

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47335675]It always cracks me up when someone reads a couple news articles, watches the ever-biased news, maybe reads the Wikipedia article, and then acts as if they were there in the fire itself. So three things, and then I have to head off to work: 1. Saying that I am exaggerating or stretching the truth, is the candy-assed way of calling me a liar without actually saying 'Liar'. Do not beat around the bush. 2. Yes; down here in Tennessee, we have had issues with the Black Panthers, over more than just the presidential elections. Thankfully, we did not have any issues during Obama's 2nd running. 3. Hatred is hatred, and makes up the base of all racism in the world. When you target a specific race, in any form or fashion, that is a text-book example of good ol' fashioned racism. You do not have to think of the other race as inferior/superior - you simply have to hate them. Saying there is a difference between racism and bigotry, is semantics, and I will not play lawyer with you over terms that are not mutually exclusive to each other.[/QUOTE] Ok, unless you can provide a cite documenting the fact that Black Panthers 'beating the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama', then you are either mistaken or a liar. I was and am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were exaggerating. One can look up evidence of such things without claiming to be 'in the fire'. Considering you were a few states away, you weren't 'in the fire' either. In Tennessee, you have had issues? You said 'through my experience' as if you were 'in the fire'. In my original post, I said that racism was losing it's meaning, and you have made the case for me. If you lump all bigotry together as if it's all the same thing, then you can't address the underlying issues. As others mentioned, a lot of racism is based on ignorance. It may result in hate, but it stems from folks indoctrinating their kids into believing blacks are inferior. Black Panther 'racism' (actually, bigotry) stems from a perceived slight by white people. It is caused by poverty, unemployment, and years of being treated as lessers. The bigotry isn't any more justified, but the causes are different. Like I said, nuance is hard.

guys i think we are steering off course a little here. remember we are discussing racism specifically in game, and mostly in regards to the new skins. we all agree that racism is present in real life, and have varying views on the qualities it requires...but is there anything we [B]can[/B] do about it in game, and is there anything we [B]should[/B] do about it in game? to my mind it comes down to clear boundaries about what each/the community finds acceptable, and good administration. a secondary option is that steam itself has a no harassment policy of sorts, and you could always just report foul mouthed people to them via their profile/the report function in game.

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;47338029]Ok, unless you can provide a cite documenting the fact that Black Panthers 'beating the shit out of anyone they found out was not voting for Obama', then you are either mistaken or a liar. I was and am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were exaggerating. One can look up evidence of such things without claiming to be 'in the fire'. Considering you were a few states away, you weren't 'in the fire' either. In Tennessee, you have had issues? You said 'through my experience' as if you were 'in the fire'. In my original post, I said that racism was losing it's meaning, and you have made the case for me. If you lump all bigotry together as if it's all the same thing, then you can't address the underlying issues. As others mentioned, a lot of racism is based on ignorance. It may result in hate, but it stems from folks indoctrinating their kids into believing blacks are inferior. Black Panther 'racism' (actually, bigotry) stems from a perceived slight by white people. It is caused by poverty, unemployment, and years of being treated as lessers. The bigotry isn't any more justified, but the causes are different. Like I said, nuance is hard.[/QUOTE] they didn't beat the shit out of anyone but they did intimidate but we are not talking about the Old school Black Panther Nationalist Party its the New Black Panther Party that is far more deadly, the Old BP party does not like the new one at all, read the ADL's info on the NBPP. [url]http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/anti-semitism/united-states/new-black-panther-party-for-self-defense-2014-11-21.pdf[/url] [editline]17th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=mrknifey;47338090]guys i think we are steering off course a little here. remember we are discussing racism specifically in game, and mostly in regards to the new skins. we all agree that racism is present in real life, and have varying views on the qualities it requires...but is there anything we [B]can[/B] do about it in game, and is there anything we [B]should[/B] do about it in game? to my mind it comes down to clear boundaries about what each/the community finds acceptable, and good administration. a secondary option is that steam itself has a no harassment policy of sorts, and you could always just report foul mouthed people to them via their profile/the report function in game.[/QUOTE] Its not going to stop hate, you cant stop an emotion like that, the only way you can deal with it is to control your own emotions, don't fight hate with hate, don't hate the haters, they have a right to hate, fight hate with love. There is nothing wrong with hate for every negative you come up with hate i can do the same for love. If someone says something negative to you reply with something nice. This the only way to deal with it. Reporting them is not gonna stop it. It's up to server admins to police their own servers not Steam. Steam can only deal with it if its directly done in steam chat, community groups and profiles. One evening an elder told his grandson, “There is a terrible battle that rages inside the heart of every person”. He said, “My child, that battle is between two ‘wolves’ inside us all. One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather; “Which wolf wins?” The elder replied, “The one you feed.”

I personally think that adding races to the game could probably be one of the biggest things rust could have ever done and has added more cooperation than anything else could have. Think about it, there were groups in Rust before hand but they were really just [I]there[/I]. They didn't have a greater purpose or a good incentive for people to join groups which is why you saw a lot of solo-newmans running around. Now that we have races we're getting more and more groups of players in the game. Of course it may not be for an exactly good reason (being that a lot of these groups are based around race) because now it seems like it's more "Whites vs. Blacks" but there are also peaceful groups in the game as well like " All races are free". It seems like adding random races to the game is like a double edged sword, you get more groups and co-operation, but those groups are usually fighting to end the opposite race.

[QUOTE=utilitron;47336070]Actually, he was fine with racism until they game made people call him names.[/QUOTE] What an insultingly ignorant post. Have a word with yourself.

[QUOTE=deputydawg;47339784]What an insultingly ignorant post. Have a word with yourself.[/QUOTE] you still didn't answer to my question, why didn't you complain about racism before they added skin color? it was there since the game was released and I haven't seen you posting about it.

Oh, cmon, men. The rasism isnt in Rust, and even isnt in the dumbheads, it is in YOUR head. Im white as snow IRL but black in game. I heard a lot, but dont give shit. If you are - its your problem. Take it easy. Its just a game.

People will say anything when anonymous. What else is new?

[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;47335959]OP where were you before the skin colors were implemented ? people called others "niggers" "white trash" and all the other ones that I could fill a page with 100k times when we were all white bald clones ,yet I didn't see any post then of you complaining about it. Now suddenly that they added skin color to the in-game models you suddenly notice it[/QUOTE] What an ignorant comment. You do realize that people started using nigger and making black jokes a lot more since they added race? I have played many hours in Rust, and can't remember a single racist joke made about blacks before this change. Now when I play I see much more use of nigger, and every single time I log on someone makes a racist joke about blacks. Such as a joke about black people stealing. cause > effect FP adds skin color (cause) > some players don't like all the racist comments in chat (effect) Maybe it will die down, but this change by FP hugely increased the amount of racist comments in chat.

[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;47339796]you still didn't answer to my question, why didn't you complain about racism before they added skin color? it was there since the game was released and I haven't seen you posting about it.[/QUOTE] What do you mean why didn't I complain about racism before they added skin colour? You're presuming I experienced or saw racism in the game before the change, I hadn't. You're just trying to detract from my point, because you seem to think racism is acceptable. [editline]17th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=cinderstar;47340344]What an ignorant comment. You do realize that people started using nigger and making black jokes a lot more since they added race? I have played many hours in Rust, and can't remember a single racist joke made about blacks before this change. Now when I play I see much more use of nigger, and every single time I log on someone makes a racist joke about blacks. Such as a joke about black people stealing. cause > effect FP adds skin color (cause) > some players don't like all the racist comments in chat (effect) Maybe it will die down, but this change by FP hugely increased the amount of racist comments in chat.[/QUOTE] Just yesterday evening I had someone asking me if I would be their slave and farm for them, amongst other racist slurs.

Actually it was enough before, removing the skin color would be dumb, I guess you're not playing any online game that has more skin colors than white. Let's use your mindset, wouldn't it be racist because they don't have any other type of skin but white? +sexist because there aren't any women ... In 1 month people will get bored with the skin color jokes. Having more skin colors makes the game more interesting, it adds diversity as someone in the previous comments said, why limit the game just because some people are saying racist jokes?

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47335735]Ignorance implies that there might be justification for hate, as ignorance means they have a lack of knowledge towards what they are doing. Ignorance is certainly a key-factor, as many people are racist for no real reason outside of circular logic. But when it comes to larger hate-groups and organizations, there is usually an established foundation that would amount to a religion/cult, in many aspects. But I digress: it all comes down to perspective. Any further than that, and we start getting existential. ;)[/QUOTE] It absolutely doesn't imply that there's justification for it, but more so that through education and understanding there could be a reduction in racism. People that are racist aren't walking around seething with hatred for no reason, and then just deciding to hate a particular race. Racism is born from ignorance and stereotypes about other cultures as well socially inherited ideas. Racism can lead to hateful behavior or create the feelings of hatred that we would associate with extreme groups like the KKK or Neo-Nazis. But again, the cause of this hate can usually be traced back to not understanding that culture and/or societal conditioning (i.e. racist family or friends). Here's an interesting article, [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html[/URL]. There are many similar studies that have been done also. Here's a quote from Mark Twain I always liked. Makes me think of my old friends in the South that have rarely traveled to anywhere, and are all racist to some extent. [I]“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”[/I] People need to get out more.

[QUOTE=deputydawg;47340433]What do you mean why didn't I complain about racism before they added skin colour? You're presuming I experienced or saw racism in the game before the change, I hadn't. You're just trying to detract from my point, because you seem to think racism is acceptable. [editline]17th March 2015[/editline] Just yesterday evening I had someone asking me if I would be their slave and farm for them, amongst other racist slurs.[/QUOTE]Nah, I think he's just shocked you didn't hear any racist comments before the update. I certainly am. And uh, isn't it just a [I]little[/I] hyperbolic to accuse him of being complicit with racism?

[QUOTE=Prov3rbial;47341583]Nah, I think he's just shocked you didn't hear any racist comments before the update. I certainly am. [/QUOTE] Are you denying that the racist comments have increased since the change? Any evidence of that, when we have a ton of evidence that they have increased? People are making a lot of racist comments now in the game. Some people don't like that. Does it bother you if someone speaks up and says they don't like it?