[Dear Gary] I think we can all agree, decay sucks. - Rust

[QUOTE=Akop;47562051]Its nice to see a user who complained about a bad system banned, it says a lot from devs[/QUOTE] Banned in a different thread for breaking a rule... for 1 day.

[QUOTE=Insub;47562570]Garry's twitter said specifically "landlocked" blocks but really didn't specify what this means. Does this mean blocks that are partly covered by land so they cant be hit with the hammer? Does this mean blocks that are by design (big blocks covering a foundation for example) blocked off from access? I think people took it to mean different things and by Garry's response to the blocks/stairs question immediately following it, it didn't really clarify the issue.[/QUOTE] It would mean that blocks that are 100% covered, (ie has a staircase or a half block on top + foundations surrounding it) will not decay. Any other way will be abusable, it's really the only way that makes any kind of sense.

Much of the disagreement isn't about decay, but upkeep. Decay is about clearing out abandoned structures. Upkeep is about creating an on going cost for structures. A decay system with an overly short delay (and I'd say [i]zero[/i] delay fits this bill) is effectively both because your structure requires periodic--if not constant repair--to remain competitive. Sure it may take X days to [i]completely[/i] decay, but at X/2 days it's at 50%, taking half the time/C4 to breach. In a brutal PvP world the margins are thin and the competitive advantage of keeping your defenses above the additional C4 threshhold is huge. This makes discussing "decay" tricky because we have to debate both (1) how much upkeep (and how much more large structures should "cost") is balanced and (2) how long it should take to clear out abandoned structures. And while I [i]thought[/i] decay was about clearing abandoned structures, this implementation feels more like it's about imposing upkeep costs. [b]TL;DNR:[/b] If the purpose is decay, then give us 2-3 day (realtime) delay, then drop the decay hammer like thor in a bad mood. If the goal is to curb big buildings through upkeep, then centralize it in the TC or a repair shed or something so we can pay the Rust Island Property Tax (because RIPT is a fun acronym) and then get back to harvesting resources, killing each other, and having naked guitar parties.

landlocked = no sides of foundation visible If you're looking at foundations from above, this is how fast they would decay. [code] [0.50x][0.25x][0.50x] [0.20x][0.00x][0.25x] [0.50x][0.25x][0.50x] [1.00x] [0.75x][0.50x][0.75x] [/code] The more sides visible the faster the decay.

I built a twig foundation completely underground as a test. On top I placed a twig 1/2 block that just barely stuck out of the ground, and after awhile it decayed and fell down. So if it's not visible but underground I take it the landlocked rule doesn't apply? Also, this foundation is visible, but I can't hit it the way it's positioned. [IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/39746859846669769/F6466BF0CCDC039D2E0D5EF6506DDDDBFA16235A/[/IMG]

I've seen so far that you're not comprehending iceboy's frustration in any way. Now I'm talking as a both builder/raider, whatever. The main idea is that I enjoy both of the sides. Look, staying afk in base isn't fun. Considering you have little to no time to play games when you already have a full-time job. I'm expecting to log in and not just wait for items to craft themselves. There's a huge difference between building and raiding. Sure, the more the merrier, easy to craft, bla bla. OK. Taking in account that anything requires crafting, I don't want to spend my time just staring at a wall while items build. The craft time for legacy was good because it took you 10 seconds to create a stone hatchet. Maybe I'm wrong and I forgot, but I'm pretty sure it didn't took you more then 30 seconds to craft something for gathering resources. It's being more tedious by the moment. You may have up to 20x20 foundations because you want a huge estate. Ok, I get the point that you don't care about anyone because you have a high-end pc. I get the fact that you like to play at 30fps or lower just because you "fend off raiders", but getting raided is also part of the game. All of you tend to forget that. The more you can do, the more it becomes a race for "impossible to raid". Sure, I'd rather go for a more trickier approach. There are already a lot of nice buildings which involves using your brain before throwing your c4 straight ahead, but mostly there are cubical buildings. With doors as stairs, building on rocks, surrounded by millions of tool cupboards spikes. People are abusing way too much of anything that might give them a slight chance of not being raided. It's not fun to throw 30 c4 when you play in a 2 man group, neither in a 3 man group. Once it took me and 2 of my friends 6 hours of barrel hunting and rad running just go acquire a code-lock. I don't even want to mention that it took us 1 day to get explosives and c4. Bloody 6 hours and 1 day. I'd like to mention that the first pickaxe blueprint we found after 3 days. But who cares, you can demolish stone even with a stone pickaxe. Just because it takes 2 minutes to craft one and about 35 stone pickaxes to break through a wall. It takes 3 people to craft the basic raiding items around 20 minutes. The only advantage that builders have at the moment is that materials for building don't need to be crafted. They are processed in furnaces and left by night to burn. Pray to god that the server keeps online and bum, there you go, 15k metal fragments in the morning. But people that need to craft c4 can't leave the c4 to be crafter in a "c4 craftet device" and get c4 by the morning. About that building a huge house part. I find people who build absolutely huge houses being selfish. The size of the house should be somewhat proportional to the amount of people that live inside. Just because I can build a 20x20 house with 6 floors, doesn't mean you should. At the current state, the game has huge fps issues on which I'm sure people are working hard to solve. But in the mean time, it has been proven several times that huge houses create lag spikes, fps drops and whatever else. Can't you build half of the size you'd want ? Sure, I could somewhat say "I don't care, I have more than 30 fps. Fudge everybody else", but I don't and to be honest, I'm just as tired as Iceboy to wake up to the Horrible FPS version of Bermuda Triangle. If by know you're implying I like to get free loot or to break inside a house with bear fists or 1-2 c4 max, you're wrong. I'm just sick how many people are making a big deal out of small things and they're just leaving important things aside. Now I'll just say plain and simple. It takes around 10 minutes a day to hammer your foundations even if you have a huge house. And no, you don't need to repair it every time it gets decayed by 1 hp. The point is, everybody needs materials. Some can spend more time farming, some don't. Raiding is a part of the game and it should be treated as it is. After you're raided, you've still got the blueprints so you can't say you'll start from scratch. Neither your house will collapse just because somebody broke a few pieces. Adapt already. You shouldn't complain so much when there are fare more tedious things in the game that require attention. But then again, it's probably fun to play whack'a'mole with anything that comes into your sight.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47557272]well to be fair, a waterlogged foundation would need repairs to stop it from eroding and collapsing in real life too. the solution is to use more resistant materials such as reinforced metal (ie armoured in game terms). you can't repair the floor from the inside? or is it one of those ones with like 3 floors worth of half blocks to make the bottom unpassable?[/QUOTE] I had 2 bases in the server I am playing on. (Now 3, seeing how I have to evacuate everything before they go the way of atlantis. :P) One of them has a submerged basement and one of them has indeed been elevated by half blocks so that I can walk without getting wet feet. That is not the issue however. The issue is that for some reason, Gary one day decided that you can't use tools underwater anymore. Then he came back on that and made it so that you can use tools as long as your head is above water level. Hopefully soon he will change it so that the repair hammer can be used regardless of how deep underwater you are, because right now it's blocking me from doing repairs on both my bases altogether. I wouldn't even mind if decay went a little faster on submerged blocks. Seems more realistic to me as well. I swam around in freezing water building this, because it's a good way to defend my base. I reinforced most of the walls because it's a good way to defend my base. I surrounded most sides by spike walls because it's a good way to defend my base. Then decay happened, and in it's current state it will destroy my base without me even being able to defend against it. At least I had fun building a new base. :P

to my mind, there is no reason not to be able to use tools underwater. i would just have it work at half speed if you are submerged, or full speed if at very least your head is above the surface:)

[QUOTE=BlitzKrieg-K;47569417]I swam around in freezing water building this, because it's a good way to defend my base. I reinforced most of the walls because it's a good way to defend my base. I surrounded most sides by spike walls because it's a good way to defend my base. Then decay happened, and in it's current state it will destroy my base without me even being able to defend against it.[/QUOTE] I'm in the same boat (pun intended). Unless Thursday's update brings about some changes to how we deal with foundation decay, my base will also be going the way of Atlantis and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. Basically, Garry will remove an actively used base from active players with all the materials required to be able to repair it. And there's no way to defend against it regardless what we do. At least let us use the wood hammer underwater and increase its range so we can actually repair stuff with it.

[QUOTE=Akop;47562051]Its nice to see a user who complained about a bad system banned, it says a lot from devs[/QUOTE] I got banned for posting a Meme apparently. I eventually found the rules (they are in a little link right at the bottom of the forum, in a super small font so as to be easy to find). Memes are stupid. Hence ban-able. This from Facepunch. A studio that brought you RUST, whose key feature is Caveman Nudity. But yeah my bad :P At least I can still post images in the forum, as large as I want, hell maybe even 8k. Because that isn't stupid or ban-able. Just memes. So maybe I will post an 8k picture of a Newmans dong next time so as to be more in line with the rules. Anyway thanks for your concern :3 [QUOTE=Denrrim;47568348]I've seen so far that you're not comprehending iceboy's frustration in any way.[/QUOTE] You want to get me banned again don't you. How much self control was required not to meme your post..... [QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47569501]I'm in the same boat (pun intended). Unless Thursday's update brings about some changes to how we deal with foundation decay, my base will also be going the way of Atlantis and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. Basically, Garry will remove an actively used base from active players with all the materials required to be able to repair it. And there's no way to defend against it regardless what we do. At least let us use the wood hammer underwater and increase its range so we can actually repair stuff with it.[/QUOTE] Maybe you are just wrong, not the game? Try jumping up and down to fix it or using Team Speak.

I have found that its not that big of a deal, really, especially if you go armored. I have a maintenance shaft below my base so that I can get to the foundations, which will probably just confuse raiders with all the doors. All the foundations are still at like 985 after several days. It sounds like with the changes it will be even better, because only visible foundations need to be repaired, and I wont even need maintenance shaft. I wonder if this includes foundations landlocked by the interior walls of a cave... probably not, but that trade off sounds about right for being a cave troll. At first I thought it would be everything that decays, not just foundations. Because only the foundations decay, and you can still have an 8 story above it unaffected, I am seeing this less as upkeep now. When the foundations go, all 8 stories go anyway, so that takes care of removing the entire building when its abandoned without needing to decay all of it. [editline]21st April 2015[/editline] I just realized that if you made a house and then never repaired it, and then let the foundations all decay at the exact same rate till the end, they would all explode in a magnificent way that might be impossible to normally coordinate with just throwing c4. People can make designs that explode in cool different ways, like fireworks.

[QUOTE=rocknlouie;47574034]I have found that its not that big of a deal, really, especially if you go armored. I have a maintenance shaft below my base so that I can get to the foundations, which will probably just confuse raiders with all the doors. All the foundations are still at like 985 after several days. It sounds like with the changes it will be even better, because only visible foundations need to be repaired, and I wont even need maintenance shaft. I wonder if this includes foundations landlocked by the interior walls of a cave... probably not, but that trade off sounds about right for being a cave troll.[/QUOTE] One of my water bases actually had a "maintenance shaft" before I even knew it was gonna be a maintenance shaft. Sadly, the maintenance shaft is still flooded and currently doesn't allow me to maintenance anything. So for now it will still be functioning as a place to sneakily hide my cupboards underwater. At first I thought it would be everything that decays, not just foundations. Because only the foundations decay, and you can still have an 8 story above it unaffected, I am seeing this less as upkeep now. When the foundations go, all 8 stories go anyway, so that takes care of removing the entire building when its abandoned without needing to decay all of it. As for the cave troll part, you can still repair those from the top side. Unless you place stairs on it that is. But I am sure they have at least noticed that flaw in their design and I hope that the thursday update will bring about a clever solution to that problem. None of this would even be a problem if they hadn't removed the demolish tool. There I had to say it. [QUOTE=rocknlouie;47574034] [editline]21st April 2015[/editline] I just realized that if you made a house and then never repaired it, and then let the foundations all decay at the exact same rate till the end, they would all explode in a magnificent way that might be impossible to normally coordinate with just throwing c4. People can make designs that explode in cool different ways, like fireworks.[/QUOTE] Because Rust is about art and the unculturized barbarians who are constantly trying to smash it.

[QUOTE=RedJenny;47570845] You want to get me banned again don't you. How much self control was required not to meme your post..... [/QUOTE] Please do. It's pretty much like I'm saying: Here, this is my opinion and why I think it's wrong. Then you come and many others who just rate posts by whatever their beliefs are, come replying with: "Yeah, you're an idiot. Why? For the glory of Satan of course" I'd rather have a smile or a laughter at your meme for providing anything as a proper feedback. I'm not sarcastic, I'm just saying I'd love a laugh at myself :). Sorry, but your post did not succeed in convincing me that hammering is manageable considering that only foundations are affected.

[QUOTE=RedJenny;47552019]Who wants to run round hitting their foundations every day?? Is that fun???[/QUOTE] Why do you have to hit them every day? Foundations only decay 1 or 2 hp per hour. I built mine on Friday, and they're still okay. Unless your foundations are all twig, you should only have to repair them once or twice a week. The problem I have is with foundations that you can't reach, and can't be smacked with a hammer...

[QUOTE=neil.hillman;47574955]Why do you have to hit them every day? Foundations only decay 1 or 2 hp per hour. I built mine on Friday, and they're still okay. Unless your foundations are all twig, you should only have to repair them once or twice a week. The problem I have is with foundations that you can't reach, and can't be smacked with a hammer...[/QUOTE] Maybe I'm delusional, but I believe you are the first one who actually said something relevant besides "Oh my Jesus chicken, please remove the decay because my OCD Is breaking loose." "Oh my god, I went afk and now my whole base vanished because 1000hp passed in less than 30 minutes." - Please refrain from getting baked and or having hangovers because you might loose track of time. "I need to hammer everything from my house." The foundations covered by other pieces are a problem, that might be the only issue with decay at the moment.

[QUOTE=neil.hillman;47574955]Why do you have to hit them every day? Foundations only decay 1 or 2 hp per hour. I built mine on Friday, and they're still okay. Unless your foundations are all twig, you should only have to repair them once or twice a week. The problem I have is with foundations that you can't reach, and can't be smacked with a hammer...[/QUOTE] a stone foundation is need to brake about 12 pickaxe if full 500hp its about 2min for 3man, if u dont reapair them let go down 250hp only 6 pickaxe need and 3min. decay system necesary to remove unused buildings, but not on this way... this only a resource sink.

It makes a certain sense that building components can only be repaired in places where they're able to be attacked, though I doubt anyone thinks FP planned it that way (their dev style seems to be more mutation/selection).

[QUOTE=Murdo;47582029]It makes a certain sense that building components can only be repaired in places where they're able to be attacked, though I doubt anyone thinks FP planned it that way (their dev style seems to be more mutation/selection).[/QUOTE] The lead developer personally replied in this thread detailing their decay system. What are you even talking about?

After a week with decay it hasn't been too bad. I even expanded our base and built a few perimeter cupboards. It's not too time consuming to repair the foundations once a day, and while I do it I just queue up a bunch of gunpowder while I make my rounds. The one thing that's frustrating is that some foundations are showing, but the hammer seems to have a shitty hit area. I have one foundation with about 12 inches sticking out of the ground, but I can't get to it. I have another one that's in the side of a hill, and there's a ceiling piece connected to it. In order to repair it I have to crouch under the ceiling piece, but the hammer hits the ceiling not the foundation.

[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;47586848]The lead developer personally replied in this thread detailing their decay system. What are you even talking about?[/QUOTE] I was referring to components built underwater or underground, since that's what people have been complaining about in the thread as being permanently unrepairable ... as opposed to components "landlocked" by other components. I could have stated that more clearly.

Some of my base foundation are underwater and are stone... I can't repair them... but after a week I think that they have not lost 100 hp yet, so I don't really care as they will be good for a month. And repairing the other foundation that is visible and can be attack by raider is not a tedious job at all... in fact decay is not a pain in the ass as I will suspect before I learn to live with it.