I mean. i have serious concerns guys... i mean, as it is, after the first hour or so after a wipe, EVERYWHERE gets built upon, and any new player already faces walls of structures to sneak past in order to get to a safe secluded area...now imagine structures with 24/7 KOS players camped out, who shoot without warning. I'm kinda fearful of the day when i spawn in, and either die upon spawning, or die, half a minute from the beach, without a chance to get ... well any kind of weapon to get past the turrets providing area denial to... everything. it'll turn a lot of people off of rust, which will result in refunds, which will ultimately harm the game.
Nah, they don't fit in this game IMHO.
Auto-turrets would be fine; there's all kinds of ways to balance them. I'd imagine that they'd need power and ammo in order to properly work, and they could have limited range or health. You could also possibly add items to distract them to move by.I mainly see them as a way of slowing down/annoying raiders while they do offline raids. If you were dumb enough to place turrets outside, they'd probably end up just wasting all of their ammo on nakeds (and possibly animals, depending on what they're targeting parameters allow). I honestly don't think it would be a big deal.
[QUOTE=Outback;48115800]Auto-turrets would be fine; there's all kinds of ways to balance them. I'd imagine that they'd need power and ammo in order to properly work, and they could have limited range or health. You could also possibly add items to distract them to move by.I mainly see them as a way of slowing down/annoying raiders while they do offline raids. If you were dumb enough to place turrets outside, they'd probably end up just wasting all of their ammo on nakeds (and possibly animals, depending on what they're targeting parameters allow). I honestly don't think it would be a big deal.[/QUOTE]
thats another issue i forsee. If they are unlimited aimbots with 10 clips of ammo, they become OP.
BUT if you try to nerf it, they become useless as , like you said, nakes waste ammo, or attackers take them out from long range.
The biggest concern is turning one player into 3 KOS campers.
but what do you all think of just having them manned, even offline? So when you log off, your character, can just chill in the seat, and protect your front door. OR if you are part of a clan, you can defend the base while offline. more reason to team up, knowing you can defend eachother offline.
as with any of this, a clan system is needed to decide friend v target
[QUOTE=n7m6e7;48115928]thats another issue i forsee. If they are unlimited aimbots with 10 clips of ammo, they become OP.
BUT if you try to nerf it, they become useless as , like you said, nakes waste ammo, or attackers take them out from long range.
The biggest concern is turning one player into 3 KOS campers.
but what do you all think of just having them manned, even offline? So when you log off, your character, can just chill in the seat, and protect your front door. OR if you are part of a clan, you can defend the base while offline. more reason to team up, knowing you can defend eachother offline.
as with any of this, a clan system is needed to decide friend v target[/QUOTE]
I would actually like to see both mounted and auto-turrets. Ammo capacity could also be limited; it could have 3-5 inventory spaces that just holds a few stacks, and they could have more bullet spread, or take time to swivel and you can get around them. Anything in a game can be balanced, trust me :)
You could even put a bright type of light on them, much like the red dot on doors, but something to differentiate between them, so you know to avoid them, or bolt actions could snipe them from far away, meaning that they would only be useful with limited lines of fire and hidden under overhangs. Nothing will make your base impenetrable, it will just buy time. Even if you plastered you base in turrets theoretically, raiders will find a way around them because as much as I get angry and say people are stupid, they really aren't. As they say, if there's a will, there's a way.
In 2013 (or early 2014, can't remember exactly when I got Rust), I predicted there would be a rocket or grenade launcher because we got: A.) Fuel B.) Explosives (and it wasn't specific for C4, could also be used for grenades). I had countless people tell me that it would be impossible and imbalanced, but look where we are today, lol. It's in the game and it's fine. If Garry wants auto-turrets, they will be in and balanced.
Turret manipulated by player cool great idea, auto turret are OP "NO"
very true. I may just be paranoid due to my run in with someone who walled off an entire rad town, and an ajoining monument, and the multiple people who set up road-side. first run through took me hours to get anything of worth from barrels. but i suppose it'd be a waste of ammo along a road. and i'd have fun dodging bullets of those who piss me off, wasting all their metal and sulfur.
Awesome, you're afraid. That's what you want to be to play Rust. Now suck it up princess, and figure out a way to survive!
What kind of nonsense is this? Auto turrets are an amazing idea, just because the maps aren't "ready" for turrets, doesn't mean they should be dropped. Just like grymthor said, it's GOOD that turrets are intimidating, they're BASE DEFENSES.
Not to mention turrets will provide an enemy type other than human players to deal with. Something sorely lacking at this point.
[QUOTE=frank_walls;48116941]Not to mention turrets will provide an enemy type other than human players to deal with. Something sorely lacking at this point.[/QUOTE]
Yep true, getting there though, now that PvP is pretty much out the way, the path is almost clear for some very interesting PvE stuff. Maybe even your Caretaker Concept will make an appearance?
im assuming auto turrets will have a limited degree of motion 35 deg? long range shooting should be inaccurate. Maybe they could have pre set ranges and triggers to make them engage. If they could be set to fire on anything that gets within 50 or 60 meters but will engage past that point if it or the base are fired on.
Odds are turrets will run on electricity, which requires fuel, be costly to make and eat ammo, inaccurate at long ranges and audible from a distance
So the biggest use would be guarding your weak inner walls while you sleep, and not helping people completely wall off resources or towns.
[QUOTE=GrymThor;48116317]Awesome, you're afraid. That's what you want to be to play Rust. Now suck it up princess, and figure out a way to survive![/QUOTE]
Chances are I will. My concern, however, is new players. Since i've played a bit already, i'll probably suck it up, Die 50 times, kill people for fear of them killing me, and either turtle away somewhere, or live next to what few "trusted" people i can find. by which i mean people who mutally agree not to kill their neighbors. "Neighbors" across the street not included.
getting off topic here
The problem is when a new player joins. As it stands, it generally goes like this:
Run around beach
Get killed
Build on beach
Get raided
Run naked away from the beach
Carefully choose which buildings are safe to run past
Finally find a secluded spot, that you can hide till you get enough resources.
With turrets (unless well balanced) it'll go
get killed on beach
get killed automatically leaving beach
get killed on respawn
get killed near any road, rad town, or any other barrel location
get killed near any resource
get refund, and get a game you can play
In the end, I'm in favor of turrets.... as base defences. With proper warning... and not 50 million of them controlled by one player. Maybe you just want to assure your nearest neighbor wont raid you. so you walk up, be like "Hey man, Dont be alarmed that im walking about, i live over there." and instead of "Alright then" you are met with a bullet to the face... because his turret didn't know. Politics, and negotiations are definitely a big part of the game.
[QUOTE=n7m6e7;48117441]Chances are I will. My concern, however, is new players. Since i've played a bit already, i'll probably suck it up, Die 50 times, kill people for fear of them killing me, and either turtle away somewhere, or live next to what few "trusted" people i can find. by which i mean people who mutally agree not to kill their neighbors. "Neighbors" across the street not included.
getting off topic here
The problem is when a new player joins. As it stands, it generally goes like this:
Run around beach
Get killed
Build on beach
Get raided
Run naked away from the beach
Carefully choose which buildings are safe to run past
Finally find a secluded spot, that you can hide till you get enough resources.
With turrets (unless well balanced) it'll go
get killed on beach
get killed automatically leaving beach
get killed on respawn
get killed near any road, rad town, or any other barrel location
get killed near any resource
get refund, and get a game you can play
In the end, I'm in favor of turrets.... as base defences. With proper warning... and not 50 million of them controlled by one player. Maybe you just want to assure your nearest neighbor wont raid you. so you walk up, be like "Hey man, Dont be alarmed that im walking about, i live over there." and instead of "Alright then" you are met with a bullet to the face... because his turret didn't know. Politics, and negotiations are definitely a big part of the game.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't worry about that too much. It would cost a ridiculous amount of, time, resources, and power to keep them all working. Not to mention even if they did somehow manage to do that, established players are going to get pissed off and destroy them if that was the case because they would be a danger to the server's longevity, and an annoyance when bags are on cooldown. If you want to talk to somebody, you can still quickly talk in all chat, add them on steam, or whisper on modded servers that you want to visit.
The game should NEVER be balanced around new players. Their whole responsibility is to learn the game, if they can't do that they need to find a new game.
[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;48117848]The game should NEVER be balanced around new players. Their whole responsibility is to learn the game, if they can't do that they need to find a new game.[/QUOTE]
Bullshi#
[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;48117848]The game should NEVER be balanced around new players. Their whole responsibility is to learn the game, if they can't do that they need to find a new game.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GrymThor;48117867]Bullshi#[/QUOTE]
Couldn't have said it better myself.
"They need to find a new game"
Then they can get a refund
Then developers don't get funding
Then updates stop
Then YOU need to find a new game
Brought it full circle.
you should be able to shoot the camera and turn it off
PROBLEM SOLVED
i'm happy for players to have manned turrets, but while i'm happy for auto-sentrys in the game, i can't justify us being able to craft them. the solution in my mind is for them to be present in rad sites instead of craftable. make some of these ruins a bit more involved. maybe have a command centre inside that gives you access to electricity, a solid building and sentry guns/cameras. make it a POI, not a craftable defence.
[QUOTE=ericks12;48117944]you should be able to shoot the camera and turn it off
PROBLEM SOLVED[/QUOTE]
not entirely. being able to shoot the camera kinda falls into my issue of OP v.s. UnderPowered
Being able to one-shot the turret before it can retaliate, kinda defeats the purpose. Devs wanted something to (Help) protect your base while offline. With a one-shot weak spot, they just become boxes of free bullets, and a good arrow is the key.
then again, that would keep them from firing at passers by, since it would be in your best interest to build them inside to keep them safe until someone actually gets in.
In all honesty, about who to balance a game to, it should be: Easy to play, hard to master. If a game is too difficult to start, it will cause players to be disinterested; if it's too easy, there's no reward for figuring out how to play, strategies, etc. and people will leave. It's a tough balance for devs to find sometimes. Natural Selection 2, one of the best shooters I have ever played, failed miserably due to poor marketing, and an extremely high skill needed for entry. New players ended up getting yelled at and discouraged from wanting to play because they couldn't do anything on the alien team bar sit around, and the marines you could hold e and build things. It was an excellent concept that could've been so much more had it included better matchmaking, or more ways for new players to figure out the game as they played.
EDIT: I would also like to add that there still should be a very distinct difference between a good and inexperienced player in a game, such as a good player will always be able to beat a newer player in a fair fight. This is known more as a "skill ceiling" is what I'm getting at.
[QUOTE=n7m6e7;48117887]Couldn't have said it better myself.
"They need to find a new game"
Then they can get a refund
Then developers don't get funding
Then updates stop
Then YOU need to find a new game
Brought it full circle.[/QUOTE]
I suppose TF2 should finally get around to removing their auto turrets then, since it's so unforgiving to the new players... Right.
As a Game Mechanic turrets are gold because they lock down the area and that the player can move though until something is presented to the player to combat turrets or something else allows you to shutdown them or destroy them.
I think turrets should follow the theme that rust has with everything being salvaged material and the mechanics of the turrets should mimic this as for example.
>Slow detection
>Slow rotation
>Powerful gun
[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;48118131]I suppose TF2 should finally get around to removing their auto turrets then, since it's so unforgiving to the new players... Right.[/QUOTE]
Get rid of that and Snowplow, too confusing for new players.
The game is way too basebuilding oriented IMO.
rust update make powerfull clans more strong again 2-3man clan
People are wary of turrets the same way they were wary of rocket launchers. Don't worry, the devs won't put an overpowered weapon in the game
[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;48118131]I suppose TF2 should finally get around to removing their auto turrets then, since it's so unforgiving to the new players... Right.[/QUOTE]
You can't really compare TF2 and Rust.
I mean, TF2 is pre-fab map, short respawns, no items lost, a straight up FPS. Hell, they make dying fun. ever throw yourself into the bomb pit after winning Payload?
The biggest difference, I think, is investment.
In TF2, you just hop in a game. Sentry kill ya? well, you can either swap to a demo/soldier/spy, and take it out with bombs and sappers, or, just avoid that path for now, and clear the way for buddies.
In Rust, You could blow up a sentry... but you (as a new player) need a blueprint for a weapon. Which are guarded, by the turrets. you need the weapons/resources to get passed the turret, but you need to get passed the turret to get the resources. see the issue ?
No game should be GEARED to new players. In the sense of games that are so easy, it entices players to play for a couple hours then goes "welp thats it, you bought it, and played it. no take backs" HOWEVER, you have to give new players a chance to get their footing, else they demand refunds, comment (sometimes intelligently) how awful it is to start this game, and the game as a whole suffers. You can't adopt the "Git Gud, or Go Home" mentality, as people mostly choose the latter.
[editline]4th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lurd;48119973]People are wary of turrets the same way they were wary of rocket launchers. Don't worry, the devs won't put an overpowered weapon in the game[/QUOTE]
I hope you are right. Sincerely. Still kinda upset they halved door-health.
ARK has Auto turrets and they online get used inside bases cuz outside they gonna get destroyed and they are Innefficient as fuck on +50m so i guess the rust gonna be kinda same to that more like an Loot room Guardian
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